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If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

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Posted: #851

Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

Like I said, I accept your explanation within the context of the bible, but practically, it makes no sense and I could never live by it. If someone blasphemes god, I'm not gonna think poorly of him. If someone murders someone else, I'm gonna wish death upon him. So while I acknowledge your explanation, simply put, I reject it as impractical.

Well of course you reject it because you are a non-believer who IMHO will never become a believer.

Not even on your dying bed but of course even at that time if you say you finally believe it will be too late.

 

 
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Posted: #852
Well I guarantee that I will NEVER accept god, not even on my death bed... but even as a believer, I just can't fathom how you could think it's worse for someone to badmouth god than murder.
 
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Posted: #853

Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

Well I guarantee that I will NEVER accept god, not even on my death bed... but even as a believer, I just can't fathom how you could think it's worse for someone to badmouth god than murder.

I know that I am coming in on the twelth hour on this one, but what has caused you to reject god? The god of the bible is the only god that can be supported linguistically, archeologically and historically,through modern day science....In short God lives.

Keep your head up man, he is not finished with you yet. It took me 26 years to know god and I am finally at peace.

 
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Posted: #854
Also sin is sin. If you commit one you have committed them all. We are fallen creatures its pretty clear you can see it everywhere around you. Yes the bible says that some sins are worse than others but your missing the point. They can all be cleared and washed away by asking for repentance and to be changed.  This is something that you can do in private or in public it is YOUR relationship....
 
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Posted: #855

Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

Well I guarantee that I will NEVER accept god, not even on my death bed... but even as a believer, I just can't fathom how you could think it's worse for someone to badmouth god than murder.

And people wonder why God would cast a soul into darkness for eternity.

Simply respecting a decision ike the one that you made.

 

 
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Posted: #856
Sounds like god is very spiteful. That doesn't sound like a characteristic of an all perfect being.

Although, if I were to invent a religion, that's a great idea: make the worst thing you can do be ridicule the deity; it's a good way to control the masses with fear.

And this is directed toward UNKNOWN (and is in no way an attack on you). First of all, I will NEVER accept god or even consider the possibility that he exists. It completely defies logic and is a near statistical impossibility. Furthermore, even if I were to acknowledge the possibility of any creator, it certainly wouldn't be the christian god because the bible is so full of logical contradictions, impracticalities, and straight up bullshit lies, that I could never respect a religion like that. And finally, I pose this question to you: What do you believe is a worse sin: murder? or ridiculing god?
 
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Posted: #857
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

Sounds like god is very spiteful. That doesn't sound like a characteristic of an all perfect being.

Although, if I were to invent a religion, that's a great idea: make the worst thing you can do be ridicule the deity; it's a good way to control the masses with fear.

And this is directed toward UNKNOWN (and is in no way an attack on you). First of all, I will NEVER accept god or even consider the possibility that he exists. It completely defies logic and is a near statistical impossibility. Furthermore, even if I were to acknowledge the possibility of any creator, it certainly wouldn't be the christian god because the bible is so full of logical contradictions, impracticalities, and straight up bullshit lies, that I could never respect a religion like that. And finally, I pose this question to you: What do you believe is a worse sin: murder? or ridiculing god?

 
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Posted: #858
Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:

here is the question again... since the purpose of our lives is to see if we will believe in "god" or not, then what is the purpose of a baby that dies? Or in that case, what is the purpose of somebody who never hears of god, or a person who cannot mentally understand the concept of god?


I'm not sure I understand your first question. Are you asking, "What is the purpose of a baby dying?". Don't people die for different reasons? Illness, disease, bodily malfunction, abrasion, murder, malnutrition, etc.? Again, I don't understand your question. People die because they aren't immortal and because they aren't invincible... I assumed this was common knowledge.

As for your second question, are you asking me to tell someone else what their purpose is? Not even Christianity does that. Let me ask you, what is your purpose? What is the purpose of a man living with his wife and kids? What is the purpose of the earth revolving around the sun? What is the purpose of living and dying? They're very silly questions to ask your fellow man.

You know, Christianity is not about "what is the purpose of my life". Christianity is about Salvation. Even for each Christian, their "purpose" is still something they must find for themselves. What makes them a Christian is not that they are told "this is your purpose". What makes them a Christian is that they live by love and faith in the Christ.

Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


and why should anything you just said mean anything to me or anybody else? why should I believe this as truth?  is this your interpretation, or are you saying this is what the bible is saying? where are you getting this from?

could Hitler be in Heaven? 


Let me answer your questions in order:

What I said should mean something to you if you are an able minded English reader.

You should believe this as truth only if it is, in fact, truth.

This is not my "interpretation", this is what Christianity is.

I get this information from reality itself. No sense in me making things up, it'd be a waste of my time.

It is possible for Hitler to be in either heaven or hell. Where is he? I don't know. I'm not the one who judges. Who am I to judge others?


I believe I addressed all your concerns raised. Now, if I may question you, can you please answer my question: Does there exist a god? After answering in a logically coherent manner, could you give me a logically sound reason why you answer in the way that you do? I want to know where you stand, theologically, before continuing. Always best to get to know who you're talking to, right?
 
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Posted: #859
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

Sounds like god is very spiteful. That doesn't sound like a characteristic of an all perfect being.

Although, if I were to invent a religion, that's a great idea: make the worst thing you can do be ridicule the deity; it's a good way to control the masses with fear.

And this is directed toward UNKNOWN (and is in no way an attack on you). First of all, I will NEVER accept god or even consider the possibility that he exists. It completely defies logic and is a near statistical impossibility. Furthermore, even if I were to acknowledge the possibility of any creator, it certainly wouldn't be the christian god because the bible is so full of logical contradictions, impracticalities, and straight up bullshit lies, that I could never respect a religion like that. And finally, I pose this question to you: What do you believe is a worse sin: murder? or ridiculing god?

You are making it sound it like when you die you should have a few options where you want to go.......

Again, i am talking here in beliefs

You have 2 choices, light or dark.

You chosen dark....

 
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Posted: #860
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286::



Although, if I were to invent a religion, that's a great idea: make the worst thing you can do be ridicule the deity; it's a good way to control the masses with fear.


If you were trying to make a parallel with God, then this shows a slight misconception.

The "worst thing you can do" is not ridiculing God. the worst thing you can do is to ascribe the works of God to the Devil -- Saying that God is the Devil, the Enemy, and that we should all be opposed to Him.

Look at the coherency of the view: assume that God actually does exist in the way that Christianity says He does (He is Good, Just, Kind, etc.). If you said that the All-Good/Just/Kind being is the Enemy, you are effectively saying that one should rebel against Good, Justice, Kindness, etc.

Would you agree that that's probably the worst thing for humanity to do?

I mean, I understand why you would not want to be Christian, but I don't understand why you'd make silly posts like that. It's a "clever" response on the outside, but if you actually thought about what you were posting, you'd realize how rationally void that reasoning is.

 
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Posted: #861
You know, I have yet to get used to the quoting system on these forums. Sorry guys.
 
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Posted: #862
No problem with the quoting system, but obviously my reasoning is sound based on what I was told by SJD. That is undeniable. You may have a different interpretation for me and I am happy hear that and respond to it. But based on what I was told from SJD who clearly has immense knowledge of Christian beliefs, I feel I have reached a rational and logical conclusion.
 
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Posted: #863
Quote Originally Posted by archsage:



I'm not sure I understand your first question. Are you asking, "What is the purpose of a baby dying?". Don't people die for different reasons? Illness, disease, bodily malfunction, abrasion, murder, malnutrition, etc.? Again, I don't understand your question. People die because they aren't immortal and because they aren't invincible... I assumed this was common knowledge.

As for your second question, are you asking me to tell someone else what their purpose is? Not even Christianity does that. Let me ask you, what is your purpose? What is the purpose of a man living with his wife and kids? What is the purpose of the earth revolving around the sun? What is the purpose of living and dying? They're very silly questions to ask your fellow man.

You know, Christianity is not about "what is the purpose of my life". Christianity is about Salvation. Even for each Christian, their "purpose" is still something they must find for themselves. What makes them a Christian is not that they are told "this is your purpose". What makes them a Christian is that they live by love and faith in the Christ.

Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


and why should anything you just said mean anything to me or anybody else? why should I believe this as truth?  is this your interpretation, or are you saying this is what the bible is saying? where are you getting this from?

could Hitler be in Heaven? 


Let me answer your questions in order:

What I said should mean something to you if you are an able minded English reader.

You should believe this as truth only if it is, in fact, truth.

This is not my "interpretation", this is what Christianity is.

I get this information from reality itself. No sense in me making things up, it'd be a waste of my time.

It is possible for Hitler to be in either heaven or hell. Where is he? I don't know. I'm not the one who judges. Who am I to judge others?


I believe I addressed all your concerns raised. Now, if I may question you, can you please answer my question: Does there exist a god? After answering in a logically coherent manner, could you give me a logically sound reason why you answer in the way that you do? I want to know where you stand, theologically, before continuing. Always best to get to know who you're talking to, right?

a baby has no chance to believe in god or not, so what is it's purpose? if that is ultimately the purpose of our lives....

so then my next question is why should I believe in Christianity?
 
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Posted: #864
Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


a baby has no chance to believe in god or not, so what is it's purpose? if that is ultimately the purpose of our lives....

so then my next question is why should I believe in Christianity?

Before you ask that question why dont you look into monolism....

 
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Posted: #865
 
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Posted: #866
Hell must be crowded since the vast majority of people who live and have lived on this planet haven't accepted Jesus..

Nothing like people who think they are the "chosen ones". Sort of like communists and nazis who also saw themselves as the ones with the only truth.
 
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Posted: #867
Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


a baby has no chance to believe in god or not, so what is it's purpose? if that is ultimately the purpose of our lives....

so then my next question is why should I believe in Christianity?


Hmm. Looks like you ignored most of my post. You should go back, reread it, and then respond accordingly.


 
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Posted: #868
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

No problem with the quoting system, but obviously my reasoning is sound based on what I was told by SJD. That is undeniable. You may have a different interpretation for me and I am happy hear that and respond to it. But based on what I was told from SJD who clearly has immense knowledge of Christian beliefs, I feel I have reached a rational and logical conclusion.


As for SJD, people have different way of explaining the same exact phenomena. It doesn't imply "differing interpretations". For example, one Scientist would explain Quantum Physics very different from his fellow physicist. It does not, at all, mean that they have different interpretations or that there isn't a single, objective field of Quantum Physics.

But yes, I post to you in #861 and I'm awaiting your response.
 
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Posted: #869
Ok I have read your response and I believe I understand it now and my response is altered a bit, but still essentially the same. Whether I'm talking about ridiculing god or comparing him to the devil, consider those things to be the same. With that being said, comparing god to the evil devil is not bad at all and certainly not worse than murder because I am not hurting anyone or anything by saying things about god. If I kill someone, I'm taking a life. The two can't even be compared in the same stratosphere. Furthermore, assuming, once again, that god exists, there is absolutely NO DOUBT that he is NOT all-good/kind/just, etc. No shot. Assuming god exists, he is a spiteful asshole and if it were possible, he deserves to be damned to hell for all of eternity.
 
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Posted: #870
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

Ok I have read your response and I believe I understand it now and my response is altered a bit, but still essentially the same. Whether I'm talking about ridiculing god or comparing him to the devil, consider those things to be the same. With that being said, comparing god to the evil devil is not bad at all and certainly not worse than murder because I am not hurting anyone or anything by saying things about god. If I kill someone, I'm taking a life. The two can't even be compared in the same stratosphere. Furthermore, assuming, once again, that god exists, there is absolutely NO DOUBT that he is NOT all-good/kind/just, etc. No shot. Assuming god exists, he is a spiteful asshole and if it were possible, he deserves to be damned to hell for all of eternity.


You said, "With that being said, comparing god to the evil devil is not bad at all". You misunderstand. The sin is not "comparing God to the devil". The sin is ascribing the works of God to the 'devil. What that means is that you are calling the things of God, the Enemy. Within coherency, you'd be calling humanity the enemy, love and grace and mercy the enemy, kindness and goodness, knowledge wisdom and power the enemy, etc.

Would you say that these things are really the "enemy"? It's almost kind of funny -- you're so against God that you would reject things like love, mercy, justice, wisdom etc. You can understand how irrational your view is.

Now, there are three problems that I have with the rest of your post. Mainly because you lack any logical reasoning to back any of these three up. Words without logical argument are unreasonable. You have three distinct premises.

  1. I am not hurting anyone or anything by saying things about god.
  2. Furthermore, assuming, once again, that god exists, there is absolutely NO DOUBT that he is NOT all-good/kind/just, etc.
  3. Assuming God exists, he is "spiteful asshole and if it were possible, he deserves to be damned to hell for all of eternity."

I'm not a fan of premises without logical explanation. Could you prove the logic to actually prove that your three premises are true? If you can't prove what you're saying, then why would you even bother to believe it? If you can prove what you are saying, please do so in a logically coherent manner.

I mean, it's easy to just say something. But we are reasonable and rationally thinking men and women. You need to logically prove your claims to remain intellectually relevant.

I also have a question, just so I can better understand you: Does there exist a god?
 
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Posted: #871
1. I believe with 99.999 (continuing to infinity)% certainty there is no god.

Now...I thought my 3 points were so obvious that they didn't need an explanation. It's like if I said to you, I believe that water is made of hydrogen and oxygen, would you really ask me for proof of that? Of course not. It's so blatantly obvious that you would accept it as true.

So each point one at a time

1. "I am not hurting anyone or anything by saying things about god." Without being insulting, if I have to explain this, then this discussion is over. This is self-explanatory. My words don't harm people. The end.

2. "Furthermore, assuming, once again, that god exists, there is absolutely NO DOUBT that he is NOT all-good/kind/just, etc." This is also blatantly obvious. Aside from the fact that if you attribute all things in this world to god, then god is the biggest mass murderer of al time, we have the problems I brought up before. God punishes people for not believing in him while trying his hardest to conceal his existence. Additionally, my example to SJD proves this as fact if your god exists. Quick recap: we have 2 people, person A is a christian who always murders and sins but repents and loves god. Person B is an atheist who always helps people and is a perfect man, but he ridicules god and denounces his existence. SJD has told me that god will condemn Person B for all eternity. Simple logical reasoning concludes that a god that would do that is by no means all good.
3. "God is a spiteful asshole and if it were possible, he deserves to be damned to hell for all eternity." This is just me expounding on #2 so the same explanation applies.

And I know you're trying to conduct a rational debate, but please, do not question my use of logic. EVERYTHING I say is grounded in fact. I make sure of that before I say it. And I encourage you to do the same. Ground EVERYTHING you say in fact. Ex: the bible cannot be used as evidence because it is not factual.
 
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Posted: #872
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

1. I believe with 99.999 (continuing to infinity)% certainty there is no god.

Now...I thought my 3 points were so obvious that they didn't need an explanation. It's like if I said to you, I believe that water is made of hydrogen and oxygen, would you really ask me for proof of that? Of course not. It's so blatantly obvious that you would accept it as true.

So each point one at a time

1. "I am not hurting anyone or anything by saying things about god." Without being insulting, if I have to explain this, then this discussion is over. This is self-explanatory. My words don't harm people. The end.

2. "Furthermore, assuming, once again, that god exists, there is absolutely NO DOUBT that he is NOT all-good/kind/just, etc." This is also blatantly obvious. Aside from the fact that if you attribute all things in this world to god, then god is the biggest mass murderer of al time, we have the problems I brought up before. God punishes people for not believing in him while trying his hardest to conceal his existence. Additionally, my example to SJD proves this as fact if your god exists. Quick recap: we have 2 people, person A is a christian who always murders and sins but repents and loves god. Person B is an atheist who always helps people and is a perfect man, but he ridicules god and denounces his existence. SJD has told me that god will condemn Person B for all eternity. Simple logical reasoning concludes that a god that would do that is by no means all good.
3. "God is a spiteful asshole and if it were possible, he deserves to be damned to hell for all eternity." This is just me expounding on #2 so the same explanation applies.

And I know you're trying to conduct a rational debate, but please, do not question my use of logic. EVERYTHING I say is grounded in fact. I make sure of that before I say it. And I encourage you to do the same. Ground EVERYTHING you say in fact. Ex: the bible cannot be used as evidence because it is not factual.

Like things can come into existence uncaused?

Oh dear

 
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Posted: #873
Just asking a question about Jesus in a gambling forum is retarded. Opinions really mean nothing, God knows all, and is all..
 
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Posted: #874
Quote Originally Posted by archsage:



Hmm. Looks like you ignored most of my post. You should go back, reread it, and then respond accordingly.



maybe you need to understand my question better and then answer it, and then I will respond accordingly...

maybe if I reword it...

according to the bible, the way into heaven is to repent and believe in JC

to me this means that everyone is created and goes through life as a test to see if we will repent our "sins" and believe in JC

now my question is, if this is true and so important, why doesn't this apply to babies that die, or people that can't mentally comprehend, or people that never hear of "god"?


 

 
 
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Posted: #875
Quote Originally Posted by archsage:



Hmm. Looks like you ignored most of my post. You should go back, reread it, and then respond accordingly.



I only asked you could Hitler be in Heaven, I didn't ask if you think he should or shouldn't be...

And no, I don't believe in any god of any religion...now if you want to say something created everything and call it god, well then, I don't know...I lean to doubtful...
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