Ah, Sweden, how are they doing

One quick google search brings up a host of articles all bashing Sweden for no mask mandates, no large lockdowns, and actually discouraging masks!!

THEY CAN'T BE RIGHT!!!! THEY GOTTA BE WRONG!!!

Several articles claim Sweden is taking the herd immunity approach, and Sweden denies that allegation every time. NO MATTER, YES THEY ARE screams our media. 

Sweden is a country of 10.1 million people. No mask mandates, no major lockdowns. So let us find a state who compares to Sweden.

Michigan is a state with 9.986 million people. Mask mandates, various lockdowns since March

Let us compare the data between the two;

Sweden; 348,585 total cases confirmed. 7,802 confirmed deaths. 34,417 cases per mil/pop. 770 deaths per mil/pop.

Michigan; 482,815 total cases confirmed. 11,588 confirmed deaths. 70,914 cases per mil/pop. 1160 deaths per mil/pop.

Previously in Sweden, social distancing, hygiene, masks and self isolation are voluntary.  But loose approach to pandemic has been a disappointment.  No economic benefit and not much immunity but a higher death rate than neighbors that imposed lockdowns.  Now Sweden supports stronger restrictions.  More closing of businesses and bans on large gatherings.  When hospitalizations surge, countries adopt stronger public health measures because they are effective.  Worldwide, consensus of public health experts is that lockdowns work in slowing virus spread and reducing load on health care system. 

Without mitigation, there would be far more covid cases and deaths.  For example in Italy, 5 weeks lockdown prevents 200,000 hospital admissions and lower virus spread by 45%.   Even in the US, Center for disease control confirms lockdowns work in Delaware and New Mexico.  But one problem is that US has a patchwork system for public health.  Lax states with low restrictions spread virus to stricter states without barriers.  No surprise US has the most covid cases and deaths of any country in the world.

Swedish king said their strategy failed https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55347021

"Sweden is also said to have one of the highest per capita Covid-19 death rates in the world, and has had more deaths than the rest of the Nordic countries combined. This has led to criticism from the country's neighbours, Norway, Denmark and Finland, that its less strict approach is putting their own measures at risk."

Dude - Sweden themselves say it was a failed strategy.

You are a scientist?  A statistician?  I love how people assume because they read twitter they are an expert.

Go post this on Parler.  Plenty of circle jerk with there.

Thank You for Sharing

Herd immunity is garbage. How did that end up working out for generations on Chicken Pox?

We have ZERO long term clue as to the impacts of a virus that attacks our DNA, so sorry that you do not like staying home and to wear a mask while outside, anyone who subscribes to intentionally catching a VIRUS will regret this decision no question about it.

Lots of stupid out there in the world...this is top of the pile right now.

We have ZERO long term clue as to the impacts of keeping kids and adults locked inside for a year, forcing small businesses to shut down, and printing trillions of dollars. 

People should be free to make their own decisions. If you need the government to tell you what to do you’re a special kind of stupid. 

This is a different position.  This is cost vs benefit.  This.... I can at least debate.

But the Sweden herd immunity is not debatable.  It has been proven false, and no matter how many numbers you try to extrapolate it is not a position based in science and fact.

Your position is different, and although I disagree - it is a position that has to be taken seriously and examined.  But lets be clear - your position does not help the OP - and his does not help yours.

I would like to propose a new law. When the government makes a decision to force small businesses to shut down everyone in that city or state that works for the government gets their pay cut by 50% until the restrictions are lifted. 

I’m tired of useless government workers telling people to stay home as they receive 100% of their pay. 

People elect those leaders to make these decisions, that is how democracy works. If a majority of people agree with you, they will vote in new people. If not, you need to live with it or move somewhere else.

Lol how can people say herd immunity is false. It's a biological FACT and has been for decades centuries even and this is one of the first things you learn in epidemiological school. It's why vaccines work and are created. Sweden had a lot of front end loaded deaths in nursing homes at the start no different from any other county. The death rate has been falling continuously and they had one of the lowest infection rates in the world well countries around them who mandated masks saw infections skyrocket. In the end this virus will do what it's going to do and no government will stop it. Two things stop a virus herd immunity and a vaccine that's it. I'd like governments to start releasing data on how many people have died because cancer screening/treatments haven't been performed. Or how many people died from heart attacks and strokes because of fear of going to hospitals . Suicide and domestic violence have skyrocketed drug overdoses and I haven't even touched on people losing businesses poverty always = death. I can guarantee you if we ever see those numbers it will trump covid deaths tenfold. 

Using impact statistics about how people cope with being isolated does not validate the concept of herd immunity, it might prove a point about cost vs benefit but it does not prove the concept of HERD IMMUNITY. Saying people are drinking more, suicides, hurting each other is not PROOF that herd immunity works for a VIRUS.

How much do we know about the mid/long term impacts of a virus? How did this moronic theory for chicken pox work out? This virus mutates and attacks DNA likely more than pox but what were the mid and long term impacts of herd immunity with pox?

So shingles has plagued generations since the idiotic herd immunity approach because we did not know the long term impacts of that virus, and we have even less to go on with this. People who back herd immunity are either unwilling to take precautions, not prepared for isolation emotionally or financially or like MANY morons think a virus is nothing to worry about...what an absurd concept. Yeah lets not worry about something that really has no cure that mutates and attacks our DNA...sounds harmless to me.

Separate the impacts of isolation from herd immunity, they are not connected. Maybe the solution is we have social programs to deal with isolation and people start acting like they give a crap about each other versus acting out and harming each other when triggered.

How many cities in Norway have over 50,000 people? 

It’s like saying the 4 worst performing states in the US (NJ, NY, CT, MA) all had mask mandates and strict shutdowns. When you say this, people will argue population density. But then these same people will say Sweden is bad, Norway is good.

NY had some of the strictest restrictions. FL had some of the weakest. The death rate in NY is 2x the death rate in FL.  

THIS..... (from wallstreetcappers)

"Maybe the solution is we have social programs to deal with isolation and people start acting like they give a crap about each other versus acting out and harming each other when triggered."

Herd immunity is the reason smallpox was eradicated. Parents used to have chickenpox parties to purposely infect their child. And with all due respect to the poster who was mentioning shingles shingles is a bad example because herd immunity only works for contagious diseases which shingles isn't. 

Oh my...

Shingles is a manifestation of dormant chicken pox still in the body from moronic herd mentality theory-

https://www.cdc.gov/shingles/about/transmission.html#:~:text=Shingles%20is%20caused%20by%20varicella,can%20reactivate%20later%2C%20causing%20shingles.

I understand shingles is caused by the same virus as the chicken pox although it's a completely different illness. From statnews.com. Sorry I still haven't figured out how to link articles. " The rate of shingles cases in vaccinated children was 78% lower than unvaccinated children who contacted the virus. Overall the 12 yr period studied,the rate of shingles cases among all children fell by 72%, as increasing numbers of vaccinated children led to a decrease in infection among unvaccinated children through a phenomenon called HERD IMMUNITY "

Shingles happens from dormant virus that was in the body from Chicken Pox, I am not talking about spreading shingles but that can happen too. The pox parties from when we were kids turned kids into carriers and those carriers with dormant virus in their DNA manifest into shingles at an older age.

Shingles is a direct result of herd immunity theory from Chicken Pox. We know zero about the long term impacts of this virus but we know that the herd immunity scam from the pox caused shingles to exist.

Being vaccinated for pox does not mean you might not catch pox and that it wont go dormant, thus resurface as shingles later. Herd immunity caused shingles.

It's waaaay worse on adults who didn't have chicken pox as a kid.

Shingles would exist with or without pox parties. And it would be far more severe later in life if a person wasn't exposed early on in life. Herd immunity doesnt cause shingles herd immunity is the reason there's a vaccine for shingles. That's what proponents of herd immunity are saying with covid. Let the 99% of the population who will experience little to no effects from the virus get infected well protecting the vulnerable. Then as the virus loses strength if a vulnerable person is infected later on it wont be so severe. Herd immunity is happening as we speak with covid. Governments wont admit it because they dont want to give Sweden credit the fact they are keeping schools open shows this.

It's scary that people are still thinking this is a hoax ...

I don't get it , what else do they need to see ???? 

It's the leading cause of weekly death now in the states .3,600+ yesterday alone ...

Thats an interesting comment and maybe so yet the point was that shingles is a dormant virus which activates later in the body, and maybe you are thinking of shingles that was caught from someone else (which can happen) or adult onset if you caught chicken pox later vs as a kid. I know MANY who have shingles that had pox as a kid, not sure how you can quantify one vs the other.

Herd immunity does not have to be accomplished by allowing people to get sick then hopefully building immunity...it does not have to be this way especially since as I keep saying we have no idea the long term impacts but anyone who thinks exposure to a virus that destroys DNA is a good thing even if your body fights it is crazy....how about we try our hardest to NOT have people catch it instead of hoping people overcome the virus or that they get better with a therapy or treatment plan. Id rather not catch ANY virus if I can avoid...

A friend of mine's mother died during heart surgery. She tested negative twice for covid before the surgery and the hospital/coroner still put covid as the cause of death!. Hes now hired a lawyer to get it changed. Similar stories have been reported all over the world. A Colorado coroner recently stated to media that some of the "Covid deaths" actually had gunshot wounds lol. There's been 100,000 less heart disease deaths this year in the USA . Hospitals are being paid $13,000 to list covid as the cause of death on death certificates. Now I'm not saying covid is a hoax I now it's a real virus it's a coronavirus they've been around for decades and I know people are dying from it but I feel the numbers have been grossly inflated. I also believe and I have no proof yet to back this up that elderly people and people with multiple co comorbidities are now dying from bacterial pneumonia caused by the prolonged mask wearing and it's being reported as covid. The same thing happened during the Spanish flu. 90% of Spanish flu deaths weren't caused by the actual virus but by bacterial pneumonia. Only time will tell if my theory is right or not. My condolences to anyone who has lost a loved one to covid.

You clearly have no clue as to what mechanisms viruses cause death. And I won't even touch your "theory" of prolonged masked wearing. How long do you think people are wearing masks? People aren't sleeping in them. Provide me a link to any legitimate story about a doctor or coroner lying about covid and i'll send you a $100 bill. They just aren't out there. It's fake news.

Oh, we have a clue.