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Let's get a grip people

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Posted: #151
Quote Originally Posted by Freedom@Stake:

Holy crap!

I take a day of travel and this thread erupts!

Folks! I'm trying to get a cease fire going with Calvin. Not start an outright war.

The original point of this thread was to urge some sanity and cooler heads.

Let's all take a deep breath.


war would be refreshing news, at least.
 
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Posted: #152

Quote Originally Posted by jdamon26:

I got the same email on May 20 as well.  It was at 9:13 PM Eastern Time to be exact.  If what you said about all these places knowing what would happen earlier that day is true, then the time of the email makes sense because it would of given them time to assess the situation, then decide on that plan of action. 

Two days prior I had gotten an email from them about a 15% deposit/refill bonus in an attempt for me and others to put more money in for the NBA Finals.  These kind of bonuses were offered almost weekly so nothing special there.  I looked into my history and saw that in each of the 10 last emails I got dating back to March 30 (show's how often they offered these 15-20% bonuses, poker bonuses, friend referral bonuses, etc.) that all of the emails were sent out between 2:45 and 6:30 PM.  Never later than that.  Not sure what that implies but just saying.

Now this situation is turning back into what it started as.  Beted knowingly screwed its players, new and old.  Covers promoted a sketch book (though there may not have been signs of this coming) at number 1 that most other sites had rated lower than this.  I'm in a different boat that Richsox in that I didn't take that offer as I already had a balance on the site.  Like Rich said, that's why people like him that got suckered by the bonus are furious and people like me are maybe more civil, but still passionate to get the money back.  For me, especially, because I had won a 5 game parlay (which I rarely try to do, and when I do it never wins) the day before the book went under.  Also, I am making these claims/statements with a sane, cool head to keep with the thread's title, and for now nobody can prove anything about Calvin's involvement one way of the other so it is all speculation. 

At least now, what Freedom previously called speculation (and rightfully so) of Beted screwing us can maybe turned into fact, if the following line from the article is true: "The motion to unseal the indictment was filed by Assistant U.S. Attorney Richard Kay on May 20."  It just fits perfectly.  Shows that the bonus, which was cash only (no e-check, which is normally available and widely used) was a complete scam. 

Good post jdamon...that about covers it.  Like you, I still have like 8 to 10 emails from beted from the previous 6 months....all offering between 10-20% bonuses.  1 email went as high as 30%.  But thats it.  Then all of a sudden the 100% bonus offer comes in.  It was an outright scam and i completely got conned. 

 
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Posted: #153
Quote Originally Posted by richsox24:

Good post jdamon...that about covers it.  Like you, I still have like 8 to 10 emails from beted from the previous 6 months....all offering between 10-20% bonuses.  1 email went as high as 30%.  But thats it.  Then all of a sudden the 100% bonus offer comes in.  It was an outright scam and i completely got conned. 


I'm off to me work and don't post from there, but I will say this before I go. 

There's more to it than we've already flushed out between us. I had thought that if everybody knew on May 20th that indictments were out, they had three days to clean out the accounts before they were seized on May 23rd. I now see that the intervening period was a weekend, so that may or may not have been possible. It depends on when the news broke on the Friday, and when the DOJ got its paperwork for the locals in Panama or Guam or both. And, if BetEd could do computer banking over the weekend or if those banks are open on Saturday.

I disagree that we can't prove anything about Calvin's involvement. We can prove many times over his involvement compared to Covers. You only have to look at his website to see his involvement. You have a once supposedly important industry figure openly putting on the informant's jacket and wearing it extremely well. You have the story from years ago that he was buying BetEd. You have the one guy who wouldn't try to start again after a domain name seizure and keep the business going and do the right thing with depositors. You have a gun under indictment from the very same USA that is investigating this case. You have a guy who had his throat slit by Covers, an organization with much more industry influence than his pathetic ass has and which he tries to pile this all onto. You have a guy who is known for trying to get this girlyman type of revenge.

The ONLY outside involvement in this so far proven is that of Calvin Ayre.

Freedom...

Anybody tries to set me up for a false US prosecution, I'm not going to say on here what I'd do, but it sure as hell wouldn't be try and arrange a ceasefire.

I'm still waiting for an explanation of why Paul called me a "...tremendous liar" in this thread. You've got more truth for your posters, and especially the victims at your site, in this thread since he said that than all the other forums combined have produced.  


 
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Posted: #154
What is the relevance of Ayre's potential involvement in Beted?
If Covers were promoting this book as # 1 while being unaware of his involvement, it looks bad. Conversely pushing customers toward a sketchy book that no one else thought was worthy of that type of support looks equally bad. Covers looks like they got caught with a hand in the cookie jar, grabbing the cash from the best paying sponsor with scant regard for the players. What is being done about that??

Who cares about Ayres, his sexual picadillos, jr high school in Salmon Arm, the cost of tea in China ...........................

 
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Posted: #155
Quote Originally Posted by esplanade:

What is the relevance of Ayre's potential involvement in Beted?
If Covers were promoting this book as # 1 while being unaware of his involvement, it looks bad. Conversely pushing customers toward a sketchy book that no one else thought was worthy of that type of support looks equally bad. Covers looks like they got caught with a hand in the cookie jar, grabbing the cash from the best paying sponsor with scant regard for the players. What is being done about that??

Who cares about Ayres, his sexual picadillos, jr high school in Salmon Arm, the cost of tea in China ...........................


It has every relevance if you get the fog out of your head about the money you aren't getting back and have a genuine desire to at least know where to point the finger.

First, agreed that if Covers knew of his involvement it looks bad. Secondly, it goes against the theory of his ownership of BetEd that a company he controlled would be doing business with Covers, except with a long term goal of hurting Covers business, but I wouldn't fault Covers for not knowing he was the owner, he has some skills in the shell game of ownership, but myself, I would certainly have been suspicious of two guys from BC running the show.

I wouldn't get too concerned about the No. 1 listing. Any number one book except Pinnacle could have gotten busted in a sting like this. Was the rating paid for? Could very well be. If it wasn't, it would be the only one in Forumville that wasn't. With the exception of OGD, what is said about a book by the site, and what the posters are allowed to say, is dictated by dolares. Nothing else. 

But, BetEd was just as good a number one book as any other except the big five. 

I think people get it that you are pissed off about losing your money. Don't blame you. But you are driving hard towards somehow blaming this on Covers, and you are doing that in a way which obstructs other victims from getting the whole story. 

What happened to people here does depend about knowing about the guys high school years, what people thought of him, who else he's ripped off, because most rational intelligent people want to eventually know the truth. That's why we have trials and victims talk of closure.

No, it doesn't depend on the cost of tea in China.
 
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Posted: #156
About the number one spot being bought by Beted, Freedom had this to say, earlier in this same thread:
"I've also said this before, and I know nobody will believe it, but betED was NOT our highest paying advertiser.  In fact, in the entire time they have been on our site, only in 2010 were they even in our top three highest paying advertisers.  Lots of people refuse to believe it, and I can understand it, but that's the case.  We take a long view around here about ways to run our business, and we learned a lot of lessons in the past.  One lesson we learned is that the #1 slot on our site has to be sacred and has to be a company we have a great relationship with. Otherwise the negatives outweigh any benefits that might come from the few extra dollars you might make.  There was always enough money to be made from the rest of the list that we could keep that #1 spot to a company that we knew was a solid operation that would fit the needs of our users and would work with us and viewed the relationship as a win-win.

betED was perfect for that, until the DOJ stepped in."

This is why people do get concerned with the number 1 listing.  It's almost a lose-lose for PR for Covers.  If they were paid for number 1 spot, it makes them look bad because of what happened.  If what Freedom says is true and that spot wasn't bought, then it also makes them look bad for actually thinking this was the best book out there and pushing players toward it.  Granted that players should of done more research, the number 1 spot is still something players would see as a book probably worth trying because it is probably well-run and pays its customers. 

Freedom may be right in suggesting there weren't any previous problems with the book besides them being "small-time" (not taking big bets).  However, unless all of these other forums grade books solely on money (not taking quality into account, which I think isn't completely true), then the bad grades of these other sites likely come from them thinking management of the book was sketchy, seeing as to how there weren't many complaints.  This would then put Covers at fault for not seeing what many other sites saw in Beted.   You mentioned the "big five" and that is where a lot of people have a problem.  Why wasn't one of the so called "big five" the number 1 book, especially if that spot isn't paid for?

About May 20 falling on a Friday...unless they got news of the unseal later than 3:00-4:00 PM, there's no reason to think they couldn't of gotten some money out of their banks.  Also, many banks are open at least partially on Saturday, but I don't know how it works down there.  There's also early morning on Monday that could of been a time to get money out, if the accounts weren't seized yet.

Obviously, the DOJ got a good chunk of money from the processor.  However, all they said about the banks was "accounts were seized."  They never stated how much money they got from these accounts.  It is possible they got very little money from these accounts, I suppose.  I hope this information becomes available soon as it would solidify further the position that the owners took our money (not just the bonused deposits), closed up shop, then denied ownership.  As of now, we can still say they did all of that with the money gained from the 100% bonus deposits.

As for Calvin, maybe his involvement can be proven one way or another.  I am just not adept on getting that kind of information.  That is where you have been a big help, Paddy.
 
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Posted: #157
Quote Originally Posted by PaddyMacR:


It has every relevance if you get the fog out of your head about the money you aren't getting back and have a genuine desire to at least know where to point the finger.

First, agreed that if Covers knew of his involvement it looks bad. Secondly, it goes against the theory of his ownership of BetEd that a company he controlled would be doing business with Covers, except with a long term goal of hurting Covers business, but I wouldn't fault Covers for not knowing he was the owner, he has some skills in the shell game of ownership, but myself, I would certainly have been suspicious of two guys from BC running the show.

I wouldn't get too concerned about the No. 1 listing. Any number one book except Pinnacle could have gotten busted in a sting like this. Was the rating paid for? Could very well be. If it wasn't, it would be the only one in Forumville that wasn't. With the exception of OGD, what is said about a book by the site, and what the posters are allowed to say, is dictated by dolares. Nothing else. 

But, BetEd was just as good a number one book as any other except the big five. 

I think people get it that you are pissed off about losing your money. Don't blame you. But you are driving hard towards somehow blaming this on Covers, and you are doing that in a way which obstructs other victims from getting the whole story. 

What happened to people here does depend about knowing about the guys high school years, what people thought of him, who else he's ripped off, because most rational intelligent people want to eventually know the truth. That's why we have trials and victims talk of closure.

No, it doesn't depend on the cost of tea in China.


And what I see is you throwing up a huge subterfuge that you see as somehow working to or for the benefit of Covers without providing any significant insight into the issue at hand.

You seem to have a strange fascination with the color of Ayre's hiney, who he may or may not have been boning and the positions in which those acts took place.............................. So he had a covert interest in Beted or he didn't............you can make some murky causal connection or you can't................................

The bottom line is that the owner(s) of Covers pocketed a lot of cash from this relationship and one of those owners made a solid promise to his players. Your distractions do not lend closure in any way, shape, form, or fashion. In fact, they do the opposite.

I understand that you have some personal bone to pick with Ayre, and you are driving that point hard, but you are doing so in a fashion that obscures the real issues.
 
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Posted: #158
OK, getting caught up now.

Lot's of posts. Not much has changed.

Once again, anybody wondering about Covers' stance regarding us covering player balances can please read posts #26 and #33 of this thread.

I think I am being very clear and reasonable in my stance.

On other matters, Paddy, please keep references regarding Calvin's sexuality to yourself for now. And I don't think it was anybody from Covers that called you a liar, most likely a shill that took a fake username.

Other than that guys, I'm still hoping to get some more information from people this week regarding exact numbers of player accounts and seizures.
 
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Posted: #159
Quote Originally Posted by Freedom@Stake:

OK, getting caught up now.

Lot's of posts. Not much has changed.

Once again, anybody wondering about Covers' stance regarding us covering player balances can please read posts #26 and #33 of this thread.

I think I am being very clear and reasonable in my stance.

On other matters, Paddy, please keep references regarding Calvin's sexuality to yourself for now. And I don't think it was anybody from Covers that called you a liar, most likely a shill that took a fake username.

Other than that guys, I'm still hoping to get some more information from people this week regarding exact numbers of player accounts and seizures.

Freedom...since you are talking about "clear and reasonable", let me ask you this...  Once all bailouts by other books efforts fail, and you get nowhere trying to talk to the DOJ (which is obviously going to be the outcome), do you think it is REASONABLE to take just a portion of the hundreds of thousands or millions that covers made from promoting this book and give back to the less fortunate, if nothing else to clear your conscience.  As I stated in post 108 or Esplanade said in post 103, sometimes you have to stand up, take SOME responsibility and just do the right thing man, even if it costs you a little bit of cash

 
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Posted: #160
Quote Originally Posted by richsox24:

Freedom...since you are talking about "clear and reasonable", let me ask you this...  Once all bailouts by other books efforts fail, and you get nowhere trying to talk to the DOJ (which is obviously going to be the outcome), do you think it is REASONABLE to take just a portion of the hundreds of thousands or millions that covers made from promoting this book and give back to the less fortunate, if nothing else to clear your conscience.  As I stated in post 108 or Esplanade said in post 103, sometimes you have to stand up, take SOME responsibility and just do the right thing man, even if it costs you a little bit of cash


DAMNIT RICH....why do you keep on and on ?????

Why not send a PM and or ask FREEDOM to address this off the boards?  I know if I was in your shoes, thats what I would do.  Im not saying it would change anything but honestly if you look at every single post you make, its almost the same questions over and over.  The questions have been answered.  It seems to me you are just stirring shit up..  IMO you are more "likely" to receive a straight forward answer if you took a different approach.  

I commend FREEDOM because I would of lost it along time ago.  There a couple of you that keep asking the same damn questions.  
Let me clear on what im saying because I do NOT want you twisting my words..  I never said you would get a different answer or anything to that fact.  But this "beating a dead horse" approach is really starting to wear thin.  It seems you are doing this in the open for a different reason..IMO
 
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Posted: #161
Quote Originally Posted by superbeets:


DAMNIT RICH....why do you keep on and on ?????

Why not send a PM and or ask FREEDOM to address this off the boards?  I know if I was in your shoes, thats what I would do.  Im not saying it would change anything but honestly if you look at every single post you make, its almost the same questions over and over.  The questions have been answered.  It seems to me you are just stirring shit up..  IMO you are more "likely" to receive a straight forward answer if you took a different approach.  

I commend FREEDOM because I would of lost it along time ago.  There a couple of you that keep asking the same damn questions.  
Let me clear on what im saying because I do NOT want you twisting my words..  I never said you would get a different answer or anything to that fact.  But this "beating a dead horse" approach is really starting to wear thin.  It seems you are doing this in the open for a different reason..IMO

Superbeets....maybe i should pm you, since you seem to be Freedoms spokesman. 

I have an offer for you though...Im running a promotion at my book.  If you send me $250 (it must be cash), i'll offer you a 300% bonus with no rollover.  Once you send me the cash, i'll diusconnect my phone, and when you cant get ahold of me anymore, then you come on here and explain to the forum public how you feel.  If you accept this offer, let me know and i'll be more than happy to pm you my name and city to send the money to. 

 
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Posted: #162
Quote Originally Posted by richsox24:

Superbeets....maybe i should pm you, since you seem to be Freedoms spokesman. 

I have an offer for you though...Im running a promotion at my book.  If you send me $250 (it must be cash), i'll offer you a 300% bonus with no rollover.  Once you send me the cash, i'll diusconnect my phone, and when you cant get ahold of me anymore, then you come on here and explain to the forum public how you feel.  If you accept this offer, let me know and i'll be more than happy to pm you my name and city to send the money to. 


Buddy Im not his spokesman ...  My job is to moderate the forums...nothing more and nothing less..  Im trying to limit the "potential" to stir the pot even more than it already has.  You have to look at what im seeing..  Your questions have been answered many times over..  So what is the need to keep asking the same ones over and over.  He told you that updates will be given when he has more info..    
 
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Posted: #163
Quote Originally Posted by superbeets:


Buddy Im not his spokesman ...  My job is to moderate the forums...nothing more and nothing less..  Im trying to limit the "potential" to stir the pot even more than it already has.  You have to look at what im seeing..  Your questions have been answered many times over..  So what is the need to keep asking the same ones over and over.  He told you that updates will be given when he has more info..    

He also told us on day one when beted closed that our money was "safe" and that he promises to see to it that everyone is paid.  Just want to know what his next steps are. 

 
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Posted: #164
Quote Originally Posted by richsox24:

He also told us on day one when beted closed that our money was "safe" and that he promises to see to it that everyone is paid.  Just want to know what his next steps are. 


That is a very fair question...  But it has been answered...  Im not going to put words in his mouth but if you look through the "three weeks" of threads, it was CLEARLY stated..  All I ask you is to not do this everyday where it stirs the pot even more.  

I have no probs with you and im trying my very best to let you guys fully express yourself.  But we want forums to be open to EVERYONE and not have threads bumped with the same questions over and over 
 
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Posted: #165
This is like a telenovella.
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Posted: #166

any truth to the story at other forums that covers had an incredible 70 percent affiliate deal with Beted, and covers wanting to keep thier sheets paying by that affiliate deal is the main roadblock in a bailout being agreed upon by potential books?

 
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Posted: #167
Freedoms said he's looking into finding out exact number of player accounts and seizures this week.  Paddy said that there is a meeting between the DOJ and the two men indicted this week.  I guess we should take a step back for a few days and see what plays out...unless we find some article or facts worthy of further discussing.
 
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Posted: #168

Quote Originally Posted by jdamon26:

Freedoms said he's looking into finding out exact number of player accounts and seizures this week.  Paddy said that there is a meeting between the DOJ and the two men indicted this week.  I guess we should take a step back for a few days and see what plays out...unless we find some article or facts worthy of further discussing.

Im hoping the same thing...that Freedom can get names/balances as to who is owed and how much.  Normally i would be very optimistic but so far everything Freedom has claimed he has been trying to do has gone down shitter.  All we can do at this point is hope for the best, but expect the worst unfortunately. 

 
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Posted: #169
The DOJ press release said that between February 2010 and March 2011 there was $2.5 million sent to BetEd by American depositors using the federal sting operation Linwood Solutions. Here is the direct quote from the DOJ press release...

 Between February 2010 and March 2011 alone, BetEd directed Linwood to wire transfer over $2.5 million of collected gambling proceeds to bank accounts in Panama;

Now that is a little ambivalent. You have to know if they took in deposits into an American pool, and paid withdrawals out of that pool without the money leaving the US, or if everything immediately went to Panama, and then the money needed to be wired back to Linwood to pay out withdrawals to US customers.

If you assume the latter, then daily deposits from US customers were approximately $6400 per day. If you assume the former, then that is the profit per day from American customers.

I'm inclined to go with the latter assumption. I'm not sure anybody wants to leave a lot of cash in US banks for obvious reasons. On the other hand, it costs to transfer back to fund withdrawals.

If it is the latter, and assuming the take tripled because of the 3x bonus, then it seems the cash grab would have been for about 60 grand from US customers. I have no idea what percentage of those would be Covers posters.  
 
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Posted: #170
Quote Originally Posted by richsox24:

Im hoping the same thing...that Freedom can get names/balances as to who is owed and how much.  Normally i would be very optimistic but so far everything Freedom has claimed he has been trying to do has gone down shitter.  All we can do at this point is hope for the best, but expect the worst unfortunately. 


If this is what it looks like, a brought to you by Calvin Ayre production, he's not going to be able to do anything.
 
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Posted: #171
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

This is like a telenovella.

No shit man, I just read this thread and got all the details.

Nobody is innocent in this one.

The guy with a blond baby in his avatar seems like a good lawyer though.
 
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Posted: #172
Quote Originally Posted by esplanade:



And what I see is you throwing up a huge subterfuge that you see as somehow working to or for the benefit of Covers without providing any significant insight into the issue at hand.

You seem to have a strange fascination with the color of Ayre's hiney, who he may or may not have been boning and the positions in which those acts took place.............................. So he had a covert interest in Beted or he didn't............you can make some murky causal connection or you can't................................

The bottom line is that the owner(s) of Covers pocketed a lot of cash from this relationship and one of those owners made a solid promise to his players. Your distractions do not lend closure in any way, shape, form, or fashion. In fact, they do the opposite.

I understand that you have some personal bone to pick with Ayre, and you are driving that point hard, but you are doing so in a fashion that obscures the real issues.

Listen up, laddie

Since I've come here, the insight I have provided is...

For some reason, Calvin Ayre has become an informant to the US department of justice. Without any substantiating evidence he has named the owners of this site as the owners of BetEd.

Calvin Ayre has been busted by the same prosecutor that busted Bet Ed. That prosecutor has a warrant out for his arrest.

The guys who run BetEd come from B.C. So does Calvin Ayre.

The indictments were unsealed three days before the accounts were seized. People had time to change their domain names, knowing they were going to be seized. Every target changed its domain name and carried on, as far as I know, except one. That was BetEd. But, get this new news, one that wasn't targetted also changed its domain name. That was Bodog. So you can expect the circumstances were that Bodog expected to have its domain name seized along with BetEd. Didn't happen, but they expected it.

The guys who run BetEd almost certainly ripped off people here in the three day 3x bonus deal. They had to know their accounts were seized or going to be seized and wanted to rip you and others off. They aren't going to pay you.

Calvin Ayre has a documented history of ripping people off big time. He didn't pay them.

There is a much better chance that Calvin Ayre is the one that ripped you off than the lads who own Covers.

If that isn't insight, you must be either functionally blind, or selectively blind.

That's what I have contributed of substance on here. In one day. Much more than likely that's the way its going to shake out. 

Now, to the bit about Calvin's heinie. I didn't just fall off some turnip truck. I've been to more wars than you've had hot breakfasts. If you have some intelligent cogent argument to contribute here, fucking contribute it. Like a man. Never mind the this halfwittedly supposedly clever demeaning bullshit with talk about heinies.

You want to have little Esplanade's own special truth prevail, and the real truth gets in the way of that. Your own special truth is one which is really you screaming for Covers to bail you out. Whining, I think one of the mods described it as. You want, at the cost of honesty and the real truth, the truth to be that Covers somehow owes you. If somebody threatens that coming about, you start talking about heinies. 

You want Covers to cover your losses? Tell me this, how much of the money you won off Covers listed books did you offer up to Covers, perhaps with a little thanks boys note? How much? If you ever won off BetEd, how much of a little thank you did you send along?

Fuck all, I'd say. But you hold them responsible for your losses. 

I'm not here to create a subterfuge for Covers. I don't even know them, although one of the blokes seems to be Irish, and that's always a positive point with me. 

As for all the people saying the money is lost, as I did, the Baines article does point out that all the people who got caught up in Netteller eventually did get their funds back from the DOJ seizure. Took nine months. I know that's not good for lots of people with cashflow issues, but I do expect now that the money will come back.  


 
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Posted: #173
Quote Originally Posted by jasonwhitesknee:


No shit man, I just read this thread and got all the details.

Nobody is innocent in this one.

The guy with a blond baby in his avatar seems like a good lawyer though.

I was two years old then, babies don't have hair like that.
 
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Posted: #174
Quote Originally Posted by PaddyMacR:


I was two years old then, babies don't have hair like that.

See, you caught me in a technicality 
 
 
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Posted: #175

All I know from all of this is simple:

I want PaddyMacR to post non-stop.

Please stay and post at covers.  Yes, it is a square site made up of lots of folks who bet at crazy ass books, and lots of folks who will argue simple mathematics, and lots of folks who when presented with facts or fixes - will choose fixes. 

We could use some more on the sanity side of the scale.

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