What makes a perfect storm? If all the reports (including straight the ones straight from Roach himself) coming out of Pacquiao's camp have are valid, is now the time to fade Pacquiao? Maybe, maybe not, but I'm starting to feel all signs point to yes.
1. How much did the Mayweather drama take from Pacquaio?
2. When is Manny going up too high in weight/size for his own good?
3. How good is Margarito, assuming that the wraps were never used in any other fights other than the Mosley debacle?
4. Are all the pieces in place for Manny to get defeated and shift all of his focus to his "real" job in congress? Is a loss in this fight the excuse he needs to finally step away?
I'm very interested in hearing your thoughts on these questions. Fire away.
To remove first post, remove entire topic.
What makes a perfect storm? If all the reports (including straight the ones straight from Roach himself) coming out of Pacquiao's camp have are valid, is now the time to fade Pacquiao? Maybe, maybe not, but I'm starting to feel all signs point to yes.
1. How much did the Mayweather drama take from Pacquaio?
2. When is Manny going up too high in weight/size for his own good?
3. How good is Margarito, assuming that the wraps were never used in any other fights other than the Mosley debacle?
4. Are all the pieces in place for Manny to get defeated and shift all of his focus to his "real" job in congress? Is a loss in this fight the excuse he needs to finally step away?
I'm very interested in hearing your thoughts on these questions. Fire away.
Apparently they have now stopped each other in the past 2 weeks. Freddie got to be a little nervous. If these guys fight it won't go 4 rounds either way!
Apparently they have now stopped each other in the past 2 weeks. Freddie got to be a little nervous. If these guys fight it won't go 4 rounds either way!
May I add that for once this is an opponent picked by the fighter (Pacquio) and not by handlers.. Pacman WANTED to fight Margarito cause, "I will destroy him"..
Careful what you ask for..
May I add that for once this is an opponent picked by the fighter (Pacquio) and not by handlers.. Pacman WANTED to fight Margarito cause, "I will destroy him"..
I put a max bet on "not Pacquiao inside the distance" at +135. I also put 2 units on Margarito straight at +425. (I can probably sell that at a profit come fight time if necessary) To answer the above questions..
1. Between the Mayweather drama, politics, lack of focus, etc., I feel that outside factors are now valid concerns. He is calling congress his "real" job? Nice. When Roach is on his last nerve with Manny due to his lack of focus and bullshit in the Phillipines, you know it is serious.
2. Manny at 154 is a joke - at least against Margarito. Margarito was huge at 147. Now he won't have to struggle to make weight. Manny is going to have to put rocks in his pockets and shims in his shoes to make up the half foot height disadvantage.
Manny only has one true advantage left in this fight and that is speed. That's great if you're fighting a fighter that comes to box and you can beat them to the punch using movement to stay out of range. DLH, Cotto, Clottey were those type of guys. Margarito isn't. He'll come straight forward and make Manny slug.
Manny might chop down the tree and avoid getting tagged, but he isn't stopping Margarito. I think we need to put that theory to rest because it's bullshit.
3. This might be the key. Margarito was the fighter people feared. He made you fight for your life. He ran through Cintron, pounded out a prime Cotto. How much was smoke n' mirrors?
Once a cheater, always a cheater? Or did he get caught with his hand in the cookie jar when the stakes were the highest? What you can't deny is that he can take a punch and he'll be hard to land good shots on given the height advantage. He'll also give you hell even in defeat.
4. Mike Tyson in Tokyo, Lennox Lewis in South Africa. Their minds were not on the fight, and they got their lights turned out. I feel that Manny's situation is very similar to those fights. In fact, Margarito is more of a legit foe than either Douglas or Rahman. Why not now?
That's my stance at the moment. Pacquiao is still great. However, I feel at this point we can rule out a blowout.
I put a max bet on "not Pacquiao inside the distance" at +135. I also put 2 units on Margarito straight at +425. (I can probably sell that at a profit come fight time if necessary) To answer the above questions..
1. Between the Mayweather drama, politics, lack of focus, etc., I feel that outside factors are now valid concerns. He is calling congress his "real" job? Nice. When Roach is on his last nerve with Manny due to his lack of focus and bullshit in the Phillipines, you know it is serious.
2. Manny at 154 is a joke - at least against Margarito. Margarito was huge at 147. Now he won't have to struggle to make weight. Manny is going to have to put rocks in his pockets and shims in his shoes to make up the half foot height disadvantage.
Manny only has one true advantage left in this fight and that is speed. That's great if you're fighting a fighter that comes to box and you can beat them to the punch using movement to stay out of range. DLH, Cotto, Clottey were those type of guys. Margarito isn't. He'll come straight forward and make Manny slug.
Manny might chop down the tree and avoid getting tagged, but he isn't stopping Margarito. I think we need to put that theory to rest because it's bullshit.
3. This might be the key. Margarito was the fighter people feared. He made you fight for your life. He ran through Cintron, pounded out a prime Cotto. How much was smoke n' mirrors?
Once a cheater, always a cheater? Or did he get caught with his hand in the cookie jar when the stakes were the highest? What you can't deny is that he can take a punch and he'll be hard to land good shots on given the height advantage. He'll also give you hell even in defeat.
4. Mike Tyson in Tokyo, Lennox Lewis in South Africa. Their minds were not on the fight, and they got their lights turned out. I feel that Manny's situation is very similar to those fights. In fact, Margarito is more of a legit foe than either Douglas or Rahman. Why not now?
That's my stance at the moment. Pacquiao is still great. However, I feel at this point we can rule out a blowout.
Margarito will stop Pacquiao. Manny is a spurt fighter and his shell defense in which he takes breathers plays right into Margarito's voulme punching/uppercuts. Margarito threw more punches against Clottey and Cotto while both were prime.
Manny will have his moments in the first 1-4 rounds. Margarito is a slow starter. But after Margarito picks Pacquiaos punches off and begins to land his own shots, Pacquiao cannot adjust and eventually he'll fade.
I'm going to be fight goes the distacne @ +220 I belive, then on Margarito by KO @ +600 or so.
Margarito will stop Pacquiao. Manny is a spurt fighter and his shell defense in which he takes breathers plays right into Margarito's voulme punching/uppercuts. Margarito threw more punches against Clottey and Cotto while both were prime.
Manny will have his moments in the first 1-4 rounds. Margarito is a slow starter. But after Margarito picks Pacquiaos punches off and begins to land his own shots, Pacquiao cannot adjust and eventually he'll fade.
I'm going to be fight goes the distacne @ +220 I belive, then on Margarito by KO @ +600 or so.
Walk, I would not attempt to put anyone off talking Marg at these prices. Indeed it's probably the only value bet and have made some true valid points. For me however Margarito's bubble was well and truly burst against Mosley. I don't believe Roach/Arum throw Pacquaio in there without being 100% sure its an easy night for their charge. All this stuff about bad training camps, we have heard before. Remember before the Cotto fight and the typhoons in the Philippines and how everyone thought Pacman's camp was poor. We all know what happened fight night. I think these reports of lack of focus, Khan hurting Pacquaio and to sell the fight. To get people curious to that they will buy the fight. Boxing is a business and my cynical nature makes me think Marg can't win this fight. Pacquaio is Arums cash cow and no way a fighter from his stable beats him. Read into that what u want.
Manny's speed and footwork (this is the key) will be in my opinion too much for Margarito. I think Margarito will be a walking punch bag and I expect Pacquaio to box rings around him and win by late stoppage or by landslide points decision. I will be Playing Pacman KO between rounds 10-12 and Pacman on Points @ +300.
I will write more the closer we get to the fight..
Walk, I would not attempt to put anyone off talking Marg at these prices. Indeed it's probably the only value bet and have made some true valid points. For me however Margarito's bubble was well and truly burst against Mosley. I don't believe Roach/Arum throw Pacquaio in there without being 100% sure its an easy night for their charge. All this stuff about bad training camps, we have heard before. Remember before the Cotto fight and the typhoons in the Philippines and how everyone thought Pacman's camp was poor. We all know what happened fight night. I think these reports of lack of focus, Khan hurting Pacquaio and to sell the fight. To get people curious to that they will buy the fight. Boxing is a business and my cynical nature makes me think Marg can't win this fight. Pacquaio is Arums cash cow and no way a fighter from his stable beats him. Read into that what u want.
Manny's speed and footwork (this is the key) will be in my opinion too much for Margarito. I think Margarito will be a walking punch bag and I expect Pacquaio to box rings around him and win by late stoppage or by landslide points decision. I will be Playing Pacman KO between rounds 10-12 and Pacman on Points @ +300.
I will write more the closer we get to the fight..
Also guys the thngs about upsets. No one see's them coming. When the fight first got announced no one gave Marg a chance. Now he is a popular pick...I aint buying with Arum is selling
Also guys the thngs about upsets. No one see's them coming. When the fight first got announced no one gave Marg a chance. Now he is a popular pick...I aint buying with Arum is selling
ANOTHER PUNCHING BAG FOR PACMAN. HE LOVES TO FIGHT TALLER BOXERS (DELA HOYA,COTTO,CLOTTEY). TO MUCH SPEED WITH POWER ON BOTH HANDS.
Margarito is taller and stronger than all three of those fighters. Margarito is also a two handed fighter unlike all three of those fights. Margarito is also a completely different fighter (volume puncher) than all three of those fighters listed.
Pacquiao is done for.
Quote Originally Posted by edmanz:
ANOTHER PUNCHING BAG FOR PACMAN. HE LOVES TO FIGHT TALLER BOXERS (DELA HOYA,COTTO,CLOTTEY). TO MUCH SPEED WITH POWER ON BOTH HANDS.
Margarito is taller and stronger than all three of those fighters. Margarito is also a two handed fighter unlike all three of those fights. Margarito is also a completely different fighter (volume puncher) than all three of those fighters listed.
Advice to any Margarito backer...do yourself a favor and STOP BETTING BOXING! You clearly know NOTHING about the sport. Do you even comprehend the difference in handspeed in this fight? Pac could fight at 70% and still win every rd. A 37 yr old Mosley DESTROYED Margarito, and made him look like he was fighting in quicksand. What do you think Manny is gonna do to him?
This is an embarrassingly easy fight for Pac. He wont lose a round.
Advice to any Margarito backer...do yourself a favor and STOP BETTING BOXING! You clearly know NOTHING about the sport. Do you even comprehend the difference in handspeed in this fight? Pac could fight at 70% and still win every rd. A 37 yr old Mosley DESTROYED Margarito, and made him look like he was fighting in quicksand. What do you think Manny is gonna do to him?
This is an embarrassingly easy fight for Pac. He wont lose a round.
Do you stooges not realize what is going on right now? They are trying to PROMOTE the fight by making you actually believe Margo has a real shot at winning. They are trying to fatten their pockets, and as usual, it will work because people are by nature - very stupid and naive.
Margo looked like CRAP against Roberto Garcia. The stick to his punches looked gone. Hmm I wonder why? Pac was taking flush shots for Cotto and not even flinching. Why would a plasterless Margarito trouble him whatsoever when Margarito is 3x slower than Cotto?
What advantage does Margo have in this fight? Is there one? Oh, he's "bigger"? Wasnt Oscar? Wasnt Clottey? How'd those guys do? They lost every round!
Do you stooges not realize what is going on right now? They are trying to PROMOTE the fight by making you actually believe Margo has a real shot at winning. They are trying to fatten their pockets, and as usual, it will work because people are by nature - very stupid and naive.
Margo looked like CRAP against Roberto Garcia. The stick to his punches looked gone. Hmm I wonder why? Pac was taking flush shots for Cotto and not even flinching. Why would a plasterless Margarito trouble him whatsoever when Margarito is 3x slower than Cotto?
What advantage does Margo have in this fight? Is there one? Oh, he's "bigger"? Wasnt Oscar? Wasnt Clottey? How'd those guys do? They lost every round!
Advice to any Margarito backer...do yourself a favor and STOP BETTING BOXING! You clearly know NOTHING about the sport. Do you even comprehend the difference in handspeed in this fight? Pac could fight at 70% and still win every rd. A 37 yr old Mosley DESTROYED Margarito, and made him look like he was fighting in quicksand. What do you think Manny is gonna do to him?
This is an embarrassingly easy fight for Pac. He wont lose a round.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Stop looking at the Mosley figtht. Margarito weight problems were well documented before the fight. Add on how the hand wrap messed with his head before the fight. Now add on that Mosley was most likely on PED for that fight.
Now we compare Mosley with Pacquiao. They are completely different fighters. Mosley has more power, by far than Pacquiao. He also is a better inside fighter who uses clinches and his own strength to beat Margarito. Pacquiao posses known of those traits. Margarito has beaten a prime Cotto, Sergio Martinez, Cintron 2x, the list goes on and on.
Margarito also posses a completely different style than anyone Pacquiao has ever faced. Margarito throws volumes of punches, and has great power in BOTH HANDS. DLH, COTTO, HAtton, CLottey are all one handed fighters.
Now add to the fact Roach has stated over and over how Margarito will be the toughest opponent in their career.
Quote Originally Posted by rzagza:
Advice to any Margarito backer...do yourself a favor and STOP BETTING BOXING! You clearly know NOTHING about the sport. Do you even comprehend the difference in handspeed in this fight? Pac could fight at 70% and still win every rd. A 37 yr old Mosley DESTROYED Margarito, and made him look like he was fighting in quicksand. What do you think Manny is gonna do to him?
This is an embarrassingly easy fight for Pac. He wont lose a round.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Stop looking at the Mosley figtht. Margarito weight problems were well documented before the fight. Add on how the hand wrap messed with his head before the fight. Now add on that Mosley was most likely on PED for that fight.
Now we compare Mosley with Pacquiao. They are completely different fighters. Mosley has more power, by far than Pacquiao. He also is a better inside fighter who uses clinches and his own strength to beat Margarito. Pacquiao posses known of those traits. Margarito has beaten a prime Cotto, Sergio Martinez, Cintron 2x, the list goes on and on.
Margarito also posses a completely different style than anyone Pacquiao has ever faced. Margarito throws volumes of punches, and has great power in BOTH HANDS. DLH, COTTO, HAtton, CLottey are all one handed fighters.
Now add to the fact Roach has stated over and over how Margarito will be the toughest opponent in their career.
Do you stooges not realize what is going on right now? They are trying to PROMOTE the fight by making you actually believe Margo has a real shot at winning. They are trying to fatten their pockets, and as usual, it will work because people are by nature - very stupid and naive.
Margo looked like CRAP against Roberto Garcia. The stick to his punches looked gone. Hmm I wonder why? Pac was taking flush shots for Cotto and not even flinching. Why would a plasterless Margarito trouble him whatsoever when Margarito is 3x slower than Cotto?
What advantage does Margo have in this fight? Is there one? Oh, he's "bigger"? Wasnt Oscar? Wasnt Clottey? How'd those guys do? They lost every round!
1)NO proof Margarito was cheating 2)Margarito beats Oscar, KO'd a prime COtto, and beat a prime CLottey 3)Margarito fight vs Garcia was a tune up fight. Margarito was coming off a long layoff and wanted to get rounds in. Also keep in mind Garcia is a huge MW.
Quote Originally Posted by rzagza:
Do you stooges not realize what is going on right now? They are trying to PROMOTE the fight by making you actually believe Margo has a real shot at winning. They are trying to fatten their pockets, and as usual, it will work because people are by nature - very stupid and naive.
Margo looked like CRAP against Roberto Garcia. The stick to his punches looked gone. Hmm I wonder why? Pac was taking flush shots for Cotto and not even flinching. Why would a plasterless Margarito trouble him whatsoever when Margarito is 3x slower than Cotto?
What advantage does Margo have in this fight? Is there one? Oh, he's "bigger"? Wasnt Oscar? Wasnt Clottey? How'd those guys do? They lost every round!
1)NO proof Margarito was cheating 2)Margarito beats Oscar, KO'd a prime COtto, and beat a prime CLottey 3)Margarito fight vs Garcia was a tune up fight. Margarito was coming off a long layoff and wanted to get rounds in. Also keep in mind Garcia is a huge MW.
How has Margo looked in his fights since the hand wrap incident? His 2 worst performances in what, 10 years? You wanna be naive and give Margo the benefit of the doubt for all the other fights, go right ahead, but the last 2 fights would lead anyone with a tad of common sense to believe that he looked like an entirely different fighter before that night.
Coincidence? I think not.
Pacquaio is an offensive whirlwind. He is making very good fighters look terribly ordinary. Margarito can load his hands all he wants, it still wouldnt matter on this fight, because Manny is gonna be moving around all over the place.
Pac is a 1-6 favorite for a reason, dude.
You are delusional, my friend.
How has Margo looked in his fights since the hand wrap incident? His 2 worst performances in what, 10 years? You wanna be naive and give Margo the benefit of the doubt for all the other fights, go right ahead, but the last 2 fights would lead anyone with a tad of common sense to believe that he looked like an entirely different fighter before that night.
Coincidence? I think not.
Pacquaio is an offensive whirlwind. He is making very good fighters look terribly ordinary. Margarito can load his hands all he wants, it still wouldnt matter on this fight, because Manny is gonna be moving around all over the place.
I dont care what a trainer or fighter says before a fight...havent you learned to disregard that yet? Let your eyes educate you. There is a giant gulf in class between these 2 fighters right now.
I dont care what a trainer or fighter says before a fight...havent you learned to disregard that yet? Let your eyes educate you. There is a giant gulf in class between these 2 fighters right now.
You're comparing boxing to MMA? First of all, BJ Penn lost to the same guy TWICE, a guy who is in his prime. Lesnar was a -140 favorite against Velazquez, hardly an upset. That said, comparing the 2 sports is retarded. In MMA there are about 237 different ways to beat your opponent. You can punch them, knee them in the head, try to break their arm or leg, or choke them. Infinite paths to victory. In boxing, fighters have 1, maybe 2 paths to victory and thats it.
If ppl are betting Margo b/c they see 'value', fine, go ahead. I myself have found value props on Pac. Pac in Rds 7-12 +185. And Pac by DEC +325. I will be playing both.
"Pac clearly cannot go the distance"? I have absolutely, positively no idea where people come up with this crap. Based on WHAT?!? Some people should just not be allowed to gamble, and need to be saved from themselves.
You're comparing boxing to MMA? First of all, BJ Penn lost to the same guy TWICE, a guy who is in his prime. Lesnar was a -140 favorite against Velazquez, hardly an upset. That said, comparing the 2 sports is retarded. In MMA there are about 237 different ways to beat your opponent. You can punch them, knee them in the head, try to break their arm or leg, or choke them. Infinite paths to victory. In boxing, fighters have 1, maybe 2 paths to victory and thats it.
If ppl are betting Margo b/c they see 'value', fine, go ahead. I myself have found value props on Pac. Pac in Rds 7-12 +185. And Pac by DEC +325. I will be playing both.
"Pac clearly cannot go the distance"? I have absolutely, positively no idea where people come up with this crap. Based on WHAT?!? Some people should just not be allowed to gamble, and need to be saved from themselves.
You're comparing boxing to MMA? First of all, BJ Penn lost to the same guy TWICE, a guy who is in his prime. Lesnar was a -140 favorite against Velazquez, hardly an upset. That said, comparing the 2 sports is retarded. In MMA there are about 237 different ways to beat your opponent. You can punch them, knee them in the head, try to break their arm or leg, or choke them. Infinite paths to victory. In boxing, fighters have 1, maybe 2 paths to victory and thats it.
If ppl are betting Margo b/c they see 'value', fine, go ahead. I myself have found value props on Pac. Pac in Rds 7-12 +185. And Pac by DEC +325. I will be playing both.
"Pac clearly cannot go the distance"? I have absolutely, positively no idea where people come up with this crap. Based on WHAT?!? Some people should just not be allowed to gamble, and need to be saved from themselves.
Pac going to stop Margarito? LMAO. This fight is a mismatch and eventually Margarito will stop Pacquiao. YOU'RE the one who needs to stop gambling.
Quote Originally Posted by rzagza:
You're comparing boxing to MMA? First of all, BJ Penn lost to the same guy TWICE, a guy who is in his prime. Lesnar was a -140 favorite against Velazquez, hardly an upset. That said, comparing the 2 sports is retarded. In MMA there are about 237 different ways to beat your opponent. You can punch them, knee them in the head, try to break their arm or leg, or choke them. Infinite paths to victory. In boxing, fighters have 1, maybe 2 paths to victory and thats it.
If ppl are betting Margo b/c they see 'value', fine, go ahead. I myself have found value props on Pac. Pac in Rds 7-12 +185. And Pac by DEC +325. I will be playing both.
"Pac clearly cannot go the distance"? I have absolutely, positively no idea where people come up with this crap. Based on WHAT?!? Some people should just not be allowed to gamble, and need to be saved from themselves.
Pac going to stop Margarito? LMAO. This fight is a mismatch and eventually Margarito will stop Pacquiao. YOU'RE the one who needs to stop gambling.
Pacman 3x faster than Margarito. He'll punish him big time. Hope he does'nt quit.
Meldrick Taylor was much faster than JCC..how did that turn out? In fact Taylor is faster than Pac. Speed doesn't mean much and Margarito can neutralize his speed just like how he's done his whole career.
Quote Originally Posted by edmanz:
Pacman 3x faster than Margarito. He'll punish him big time. Hope he does'nt quit.
Meldrick Taylor was much faster than JCC..how did that turn out? In fact Taylor is faster than Pac. Speed doesn't mean much and Margarito can neutralize his speed just like how he's done his whole career.
Meldrick Taylor was much faster than JCC..how did that turn out? In fact Taylor is faster than Pac. Speed doesn't mean much and Margarito can neutralize his speed just like how he's done his whole career.
Margarito won't know where the punches are coming from, speed kills in boxing especially with power on both hands. Pacman can take punches too, just ask cotto.
Quote Originally Posted by Jerseyboy89:
Meldrick Taylor was much faster than JCC..how did that turn out? In fact Taylor is faster than Pac. Speed doesn't mean much and Margarito can neutralize his speed just like how he's done his whole career.
Margarito won't know where the punches are coming from, speed kills in boxing especially with power on both hands. Pacman can take punches too, just ask cotto.
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