Any thoughts on this fight on how to be this card? Is Marquez really a 5 to 1 dog? Give me a break. Looking at this line makes you think there is no way that Marquez wins this fight. I hate to count against him, but I'm also not willing to lay some $$ on Marquez, at least not yet. Manny seems way too strong at this weight for him and he is more comfortable at this weight than Marquez is. With the whole Mayweather fight possibly happening next year, and with Bob Arum involved here, I just cant see a way that Manny looses this fight. So, I'm looking at the over/under 10 rounds right now. I'm leaning over right now because Marquez just will not quit and will do everything possible to make it through the fight. Any thoughts guys?
All about the chase
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Any thoughts on this fight on how to be this card? Is Marquez really a 5 to 1 dog? Give me a break. Looking at this line makes you think there is no way that Marquez wins this fight. I hate to count against him, but I'm also not willing to lay some $$ on Marquez, at least not yet. Manny seems way too strong at this weight for him and he is more comfortable at this weight than Marquez is. With the whole Mayweather fight possibly happening next year, and with Bob Arum involved here, I just cant see a way that Manny looses this fight. So, I'm looking at the over/under 10 rounds right now. I'm leaning over right now because Marquez just will not quit and will do everything possible to make it through the fight. Any thoughts guys?
Any thoughts on this fight on how to be this card? Is Marquez really a 5 to 1 dog? Give me a break. Looking at this line makes you think there is no way that Marquez wins this fight. I hate to count against him, but I'm also not willing to lay some $$ on Marquez, at least not yet. Manny seems way too strong at this weight for him and he is more comfortable at this weight than Marquez is. With the whole Mayweather fight possibly happening next year, and with Bob Arum involved here, I just cant see a way that Manny looses this fight. So, I'm looking at the over/under 10 rounds right now. I'm leaning over right now because Marquez just will not quit and will do everything possible to make it through the fight. Any thoughts guys?
There a a few questions you must ask yourself before deciding to bet this fight:
1. Has Marquez slowed that much and Pacquiao become that much better? The line (and public consensus) says yes.
You have to figure out how much of that is reality vs public perception. I believe it's largely public perception, but Marquez has been hit a lot in recent years and struggled at times with Diaz and Katsidis. Pacquiao, on the other hand, has hardly lost a round.
2. Could it be close?
Styles make fights, and sometimes fighters just click. I'm not sure if these two fought 100 times that every wouldn't be close. I feel it's easy to say this fight will be entertaining, if nothing else.
3. Why would Pacquiao dominate now?
There are 24 rounds of documented fight footage between these two. Marquez clearly won over half of those rounds. While I'm skeptical that he can do it at this weight and at this point in his career, you have clear visual proof of his ability to pull it off.
It's like watching two cars race and car A was neck and neck with car B. They race again, yet car A should now handily win? Has Pacquiao added boost? (yuckity yuck) Well, sort of. Pacquiao has become a complete fighter since that time and has handled the move up in weight much better than Marquez. He's grown while Marquez has regressed.
In short, Marquez has little chance to win. However, he'll be fun to watch. My play is simple, have a few beers, bet the under, enjoy the fight. This isn't a fight to make a large wager on. Sometimes there are good lines. This is one of them.
Quote Originally Posted by jaime2309:
Any thoughts on this fight on how to be this card? Is Marquez really a 5 to 1 dog? Give me a break. Looking at this line makes you think there is no way that Marquez wins this fight. I hate to count against him, but I'm also not willing to lay some $$ on Marquez, at least not yet. Manny seems way too strong at this weight for him and he is more comfortable at this weight than Marquez is. With the whole Mayweather fight possibly happening next year, and with Bob Arum involved here, I just cant see a way that Manny looses this fight. So, I'm looking at the over/under 10 rounds right now. I'm leaning over right now because Marquez just will not quit and will do everything possible to make it through the fight. Any thoughts guys?
There a a few questions you must ask yourself before deciding to bet this fight:
1. Has Marquez slowed that much and Pacquiao become that much better? The line (and public consensus) says yes.
You have to figure out how much of that is reality vs public perception. I believe it's largely public perception, but Marquez has been hit a lot in recent years and struggled at times with Diaz and Katsidis. Pacquiao, on the other hand, has hardly lost a round.
2. Could it be close?
Styles make fights, and sometimes fighters just click. I'm not sure if these two fought 100 times that every wouldn't be close. I feel it's easy to say this fight will be entertaining, if nothing else.
3. Why would Pacquiao dominate now?
There are 24 rounds of documented fight footage between these two. Marquez clearly won over half of those rounds. While I'm skeptical that he can do it at this weight and at this point in his career, you have clear visual proof of his ability to pull it off.
It's like watching two cars race and car A was neck and neck with car B. They race again, yet car A should now handily win? Has Pacquiao added boost? (yuckity yuck) Well, sort of. Pacquiao has become a complete fighter since that time and has handled the move up in weight much better than Marquez. He's grown while Marquez has regressed.
In short, Marquez has little chance to win. However, he'll be fun to watch. My play is simple, have a few beers, bet the under, enjoy the fight. This isn't a fight to make a large wager on. Sometimes there are good lines. This is one of them.
jaime2309: It will be nothing like the initial two fights. A simple matter of strength and speed will favor Pacman in an easy KO! JMM will keep coming like a bull, but unfortunately being tough can also be dangerous to himself. Instant Replay is in effect so the controversy of a ref making a bad call will hopefully be avoided. Also, with no standing eight count and no three knockdown rule in effect I feel if Manny knocks JMM down several times in a row, the referee will be in a tough spot to stop it early. Never-the-less, JMM can absorb a lot of pain and has a great chin, and the respect and likeness I have for him I would prefer to have the 3-Knock down rule in effect to save JMM from a bloodbath. Beristain knows Marquez and he will protect him at the right time. Nacho claimed annihilation against Manny, but I fail to see the possibility! Manny by KO and see if you get prop odds for certain rounds. I'd wager more on early KO, then on the later. Reason, if Marquez is able to manage the speed and power of Manny for more than 7 rounds, then he has the ability to finish if not for cuts, facial swelling, or his corner feels he is way behind and can't KO Manny.
jaime2309: It will be nothing like the initial two fights. A simple matter of strength and speed will favor Pacman in an easy KO! JMM will keep coming like a bull, but unfortunately being tough can also be dangerous to himself. Instant Replay is in effect so the controversy of a ref making a bad call will hopefully be avoided. Also, with no standing eight count and no three knockdown rule in effect I feel if Manny knocks JMM down several times in a row, the referee will be in a tough spot to stop it early. Never-the-less, JMM can absorb a lot of pain and has a great chin, and the respect and likeness I have for him I would prefer to have the 3-Knock down rule in effect to save JMM from a bloodbath. Beristain knows Marquez and he will protect him at the right time. Nacho claimed annihilation against Manny, but I fail to see the possibility! Manny by KO and see if you get prop odds for certain rounds. I'd wager more on early KO, then on the later. Reason, if Marquez is able to manage the speed and power of Manny for more than 7 rounds, then he has the ability to finish if not for cuts, facial swelling, or his corner feels he is way behind and can't KO Manny.
JMM has been one of my favorite fighters of all time. He is as fierce as they come. Unfortunately, this is a fight that being fierce is not enough. Don't bother with any wagers of Marquez. If you did, try to bet him winning by RTD because a scenario that Manny suffers a cut early due to a headbutt and they go to the cards, Marquez has a small chance if he somehow won the rounds because Manny was bothered by a cut. Otherwise, I can't imagine another scenario.
JMM has been one of my favorite fighters of all time. He is as fierce as they come. Unfortunately, this is a fight that being fierce is not enough. Don't bother with any wagers of Marquez. If you did, try to bet him winning by RTD because a scenario that Manny suffers a cut early due to a headbutt and they go to the cards, Marquez has a small chance if he somehow won the rounds because Manny was bothered by a cut. Otherwise, I can't imagine another scenario.
jaime2309: JMM is not like Mosley (against Floyd), etc, or other fighters early dominated and feel they can't win and just want to go the distance especially if they have never been KOd. The reason I like JMM because he fights every round like it will be his last, so he won't be in survival mode. Even though he is a great ring technician he is also constantly the aggressor in most spots. I feel a referee or corner stop. Using Nevada rules, the WBO is using instant replay and they didn't state all the rules of the fight (that I've seen). Also, being a catch-weight I'm not sure what special clause might be included.
jaime2309: JMM is not like Mosley (against Floyd), etc, or other fighters early dominated and feel they can't win and just want to go the distance especially if they have never been KOd. The reason I like JMM because he fights every round like it will be his last, so he won't be in survival mode. Even though he is a great ring technician he is also constantly the aggressor in most spots. I feel a referee or corner stop. Using Nevada rules, the WBO is using instant replay and they didn't state all the rules of the fight (that I've seen). Also, being a catch-weight I'm not sure what special clause might be included.
I forgot, I would bet big that Manny & Floyd won't meet up next year, especially if Manny is impressive by destroying JMM. Floyd might take it after Manny retires hoping Manny would be declining fast and that he would have major ring rust as he's yet to retire or take a long hiatus. In general, Floyd wants to make sure the speed is equal or better, punching power close... making both fighters physically similar leaves one scenario... the better boxer usually wins..., and Floyd is not only a natural he is experienced.
I forgot, I would bet big that Manny & Floyd won't meet up next year, especially if Manny is impressive by destroying JMM. Floyd might take it after Manny retires hoping Manny would be declining fast and that he would have major ring rust as he's yet to retire or take a long hiatus. In general, Floyd wants to make sure the speed is equal or better, punching power close... making both fighters physically similar leaves one scenario... the better boxer usually wins..., and Floyd is not only a natural he is experienced.
he knows he will not win this fight going to the cards. i think he goes for it early and gets caught. paq and manny know this is probably his plan as the longer the fight goes on the less chance he will have as paq's cardio is phenomenal. i believe this fight goes the way of cotto/paq but with paq going for the ko as they still remember the smack-talking by jmm after their second fight(wearing a t-shirt in the philippines stating "I beat Pacquiao twice").
barring jmm hurting paq early or administing a cut(paq was last cut six years ago against morales), i give a 38-year-old jmm very little chance here.
jmm is coming to ktfo paq or get ktfo trying.
he knows he will not win this fight going to the cards. i think he goes for it early and gets caught. paq and manny know this is probably his plan as the longer the fight goes on the less chance he will have as paq's cardio is phenomenal. i believe this fight goes the way of cotto/paq but with paq going for the ko as they still remember the smack-talking by jmm after their second fight(wearing a t-shirt in the philippines stating "I beat Pacquiao twice").
barring jmm hurting paq early or administing a cut(paq was last cut six years ago against morales), i give a 38-year-old jmm very little chance here.
I heard roach and I'd have to agree, and he knows best how his fighter is. Qncyk1: I know Manny has great stamina, but Marquez does as well. At this point in his career he is physically to far behind. Marquez wearing that was not disrespectful, as he learned that he has been one of the best fighters over the decade that didn't make any big money till late... and still he is way underpaid. Manny is not malicious and they will go to war and hug after, and both have the highest respect for each other. Marquez learned from Floyd that sometimes a little antagonism can sell tickets. Marquez has the heart but not the physical attributes to match.
I heard roach and I'd have to agree, and he knows best how his fighter is. Qncyk1: I know Manny has great stamina, but Marquez does as well. At this point in his career he is physically to far behind. Marquez wearing that was not disrespectful, as he learned that he has been one of the best fighters over the decade that didn't make any big money till late... and still he is way underpaid. Manny is not malicious and they will go to war and hug after, and both have the highest respect for each other. Marquez learned from Floyd that sometimes a little antagonism can sell tickets. Marquez has the heart but not the physical attributes to match.
This fight was lost for Marquez during negotiations. And in his defense, there really wasn't much he could do. (much like the Floyd fight)
This catch weight of 144 lbs is the biggest factor in the fight IMO. In fact, I believe that's probably why this 3rd fight was so willingly accepted by the Pacquiao camp.That weight is PERFECT for Manny. While Marquez is clearly at his best at 135.
Just remember the first fight in 2004 was at 126 and the fight in 08' was contested at 130. I was in Vegas (at the weigh-in) for the 08' fight and Manny was completely starched.... he immediately went to 135 for his next fight. And aside from Manny progressing as an all around fighter since then, the hand speed in those fights was VERY comparable. Manny will have a very noticeable hand-speed advantage at this weight and the counterpunching that Marquez relies on so heavily will not be effective. Everyone remembers what JMM looked like when he was forced to move up to welterweight to get a fight with Floyd.....
As for the people that are predicting a KO by Manny, I suppose it's possible but I don't see it happening. You have two fighters with VERY high ring IQ's. Granted, Marquez has been in trouble early in fights recently, but he is the absolute master of in-fight adjustments. Manny would have to get him inside of Rd 4 to get a KO, IMO. And I really don't think a TKO is possible beyond that simply because the Mexican warrior in Marquez WON"T allow him to quit. My prediction: Manny by UD with no card being closer than 116 - 112.
This fight was lost for Marquez during negotiations. And in his defense, there really wasn't much he could do. (much like the Floyd fight)
This catch weight of 144 lbs is the biggest factor in the fight IMO. In fact, I believe that's probably why this 3rd fight was so willingly accepted by the Pacquiao camp.That weight is PERFECT for Manny. While Marquez is clearly at his best at 135.
Just remember the first fight in 2004 was at 126 and the fight in 08' was contested at 130. I was in Vegas (at the weigh-in) for the 08' fight and Manny was completely starched.... he immediately went to 135 for his next fight. And aside from Manny progressing as an all around fighter since then, the hand speed in those fights was VERY comparable. Manny will have a very noticeable hand-speed advantage at this weight and the counterpunching that Marquez relies on so heavily will not be effective. Everyone remembers what JMM looked like when he was forced to move up to welterweight to get a fight with Floyd.....
As for the people that are predicting a KO by Manny, I suppose it's possible but I don't see it happening. You have two fighters with VERY high ring IQ's. Granted, Marquez has been in trouble early in fights recently, but he is the absolute master of in-fight adjustments. Manny would have to get him inside of Rd 4 to get a KO, IMO. And I really don't think a TKO is possible beyond that simply because the Mexican warrior in Marquez WON"T allow him to quit. My prediction: Manny by UD with no card being closer than 116 - 112.
agreed. the weight is a serious disadvantage for jmm. but i disagree with you on the ko. manny has serious power at 147. ssm stated that he failed to remember three or four rounds after getting knocked down by paq. also, i believe that if paq truly wanted to, he could've ko'd ssm and cotto if he chose to.
jmm is coming to fight. and when fighters come to fight(and not survive ala clottey), they come to get knocked out.
agreed. the weight is a serious disadvantage for jmm. but i disagree with you on the ko. manny has serious power at 147. ssm stated that he failed to remember three or four rounds after getting knocked down by paq. also, i believe that if paq truly wanted to, he could've ko'd ssm and cotto if he chose to.
jmm is coming to fight. and when fighters come to fight(and not survive ala clottey), they come to get knocked out.
100% JMM is coming- That's why I liked Marquez. Actually long before I seen Marquez or knew about him, Emanuel told me the fiercest and hardest training fighter, and a master technician of adjustments was Marquez. He stated no disrespect to Chavez, but Chavez couldn't handle this guys work ethic. Also, when he use to train at extreme altitudes (less oxygen) to simulate later rounds, he trained like there was no difference. Marquez is maybe the lowest paid boxer for his resume. To watch him and Manny fight at age 65 still would be better than much of these only look good on paper match-ups people are buying. These guys both fight hard. Marquez is slightly more active in the ring and fights the 12th like the 1st and also very technical. Manny has improved the most, being 1 handed fighter with terrible footwork, now he is stronger, just as fast, throws better combo's and knows how to work off the jab. I think at 38 and 144lbs is a GIANT advantage for Manny. More than likely you will see Marquez hit the canvas from power shots that he can get up from but at some point they will stop it. Manny trains hardcore and makes action fights always. Floyd trains hard, uses safety first but I have an issue with his last 10 opponents or so. More often HBO 24/7 offers nothing technical, but Floyd's' 24/7s are more entertaining than his fights with ongoing father vs son. Marquez always brings his game, and not only do you see him KO guys (Floyd could if he wasn't so risk aversion) but he breaks a fighter down systematically. For boxers or serious fans, he's great to watch. One last thing about Marquez and his power. It seems he is a big hitter for lightweight, and this is true but another factor is there. He measures fighters reach and footwork so when he engages he lands punches right at the maximum power. He does it so well people don't realize how hard it is and he does it so much. Manny has those quick inside power shots that work in his favor close-up. Manny is a stronger guy so his punches are effective even when it's half-blocked. If Manny and Juan has 100% equal power & speed, then you would see what I'm saying.
100% JMM is coming- That's why I liked Marquez. Actually long before I seen Marquez or knew about him, Emanuel told me the fiercest and hardest training fighter, and a master technician of adjustments was Marquez. He stated no disrespect to Chavez, but Chavez couldn't handle this guys work ethic. Also, when he use to train at extreme altitudes (less oxygen) to simulate later rounds, he trained like there was no difference. Marquez is maybe the lowest paid boxer for his resume. To watch him and Manny fight at age 65 still would be better than much of these only look good on paper match-ups people are buying. These guys both fight hard. Marquez is slightly more active in the ring and fights the 12th like the 1st and also very technical. Manny has improved the most, being 1 handed fighter with terrible footwork, now he is stronger, just as fast, throws better combo's and knows how to work off the jab. I think at 38 and 144lbs is a GIANT advantage for Manny. More than likely you will see Marquez hit the canvas from power shots that he can get up from but at some point they will stop it. Manny trains hardcore and makes action fights always. Floyd trains hard, uses safety first but I have an issue with his last 10 opponents or so. More often HBO 24/7 offers nothing technical, but Floyd's' 24/7s are more entertaining than his fights with ongoing father vs son. Marquez always brings his game, and not only do you see him KO guys (Floyd could if he wasn't so risk aversion) but he breaks a fighter down systematically. For boxers or serious fans, he's great to watch. One last thing about Marquez and his power. It seems he is a big hitter for lightweight, and this is true but another factor is there. He measures fighters reach and footwork so when he engages he lands punches right at the maximum power. He does it so well people don't realize how hard it is and he does it so much. Manny has those quick inside power shots that work in his favor close-up. Manny is a stronger guy so his punches are effective even when it's half-blocked. If Manny and Juan has 100% equal power & speed, then you would see what I'm saying.
Yes. See the 4th car race between Israel Vazquez and Rafael Marquez.
Vazquez was coming of surgery for a detached retina. Completely different circumstances.He shouldn't have even taken the fight. He hasn't fought since then and probably never will.
Quote Originally Posted by Covers_Speds:
Yes. See the 4th car race between Israel Vazquez and Rafael Marquez.
Vazquez was coming of surgery for a detached retina. Completely different circumstances.He shouldn't have even taken the fight. He hasn't fought since then and probably never will.
I agree (not the money I made though). Unfortunate that it took and still takes lighter divisions to make bog money. They are better fighters, fight harder, all around... one reason I think heavyweights are overpaid. Guys like Vasquez never made millions, where Holyfield made hundred of millions and is considered broke. lol
I agree (not the money I made though). Unfortunate that it took and still takes lighter divisions to make bog money. They are better fighters, fight harder, all around... one reason I think heavyweights are overpaid. Guys like Vasquez never made millions, where Holyfield made hundred of millions and is considered broke. lol
Watching the Trilogy of Marquez-Vasquez is what boxing is all about. I remember Jack Nicholson and Sly Stallone sitting ring side. Now Jack goes to the major fights as Stallone, but this was a first for Jack to appear ringside at Home Depot Center in Carson, CA. It goes to show that this was known to be a fight and not a celebrity media event as well. A writer quoted after the fourth fight "Vazquez’s purse for Saturday night was $800,000. Even after everyone whacks it up, that’s a lot of money for a 126-pounder." WHAT? All that this fighter (Marquez too) has done an risked. That is the mentality of the public. Over 90% of heavyweights don't have 10% the heart of smaller weight classes.
Watching the Trilogy of Marquez-Vasquez is what boxing is all about. I remember Jack Nicholson and Sly Stallone sitting ring side. Now Jack goes to the major fights as Stallone, but this was a first for Jack to appear ringside at Home Depot Center in Carson, CA. It goes to show that this was known to be a fight and not a celebrity media event as well. A writer quoted after the fourth fight "Vazquez’s purse for Saturday night was $800,000. Even after everyone whacks it up, that’s a lot of money for a 126-pounder." WHAT? All that this fighter (Marquez too) has done an risked. That is the mentality of the public. Over 90% of heavyweights don't have 10% the heart of smaller weight classes.
well,my money will be with pacman by k.o,i will like to see marquez winning but that`s just not gonna happen i just heard that he is gonna try to k.o. pacman those where is words and its just not his style he is a counterpuncher when he came agressive in the first round of the first fight well u all remember what happen...SO PACMAN VIA KO AROUND THE 8TH
well,my money will be with pacman by k.o,i will like to see marquez winning but that`s just not gonna happen i just heard that he is gonna try to k.o. pacman those where is words and its just not his style he is a counterpuncher when he came agressive in the first round of the first fight well u all remember what happen...SO PACMAN VIA KO AROUND THE 8TH
Pretty interesting article to read about JMM training with the same guy that was involved with a lot of the doping with the US track and Field sprinters.
Pretty interesting article to read about JMM training with the same guy that was involved with a lot of the doping with the US track and Field sprinters.
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