What do you expect from a Carter appointee? Something intelligent? Nah....
Zbigniew Brzezinski, who enthusiastically campaigned for U.S. President Barack Obama, has called on the president to shoot down Israeli planes if they attack Iran. “They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?” said the former national security advisor to former U.S. President Jimmy Carter in an interview with the Daily Beast. Brzezinski, who served in the Carter administration from 1977 to 1981, is currently a professor of American foreign policy at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies in Maryland.
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To remove first post, remove entire topic.
What do you expect from a Carter appointee? Something intelligent? Nah....
Zbigniew Brzezinski, who enthusiastically campaigned for U.S. President Barack Obama, has called on the president to shoot down Israeli planes if they attack Iran. “They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?” said the former national security advisor to former U.S. President Jimmy Carter in an interview with the Daily Beast. Brzezinski, who served in the Carter administration from 1977 to 1981, is currently a professor of American foreign policy at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies in Maryland.
What do you expect from a Carter appointee? Something intelligent? Nah....
Zbigniew Brzezinski, who enthusiastically campaigned for U.S. President Barack Obama, has called on the president to shoot down Israeli planes if they attack Iran. “They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?” said the former national security advisor to former U.S. President Jimmy Carter in an interview with the Daily Beast. Brzezinski, who served in the Carter administration from 1977 to 1981, is currently a professor of American foreign policy at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies in Maryland.
Our airspace in Iraq? Say What ??
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Quote Originally Posted by skipper21:
What do you expect from a Carter appointee? Something intelligent? Nah....
Zbigniew Brzezinski, who enthusiastically campaigned for U.S. President Barack Obama, has called on the president to shoot down Israeli planes if they attack Iran. “They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?” said the former national security advisor to former U.S. President Jimmy Carter in an interview with the Daily Beast. Brzezinski, who served in the Carter administration from 1977 to 1981, is currently a professor of American foreign policy at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies in Maryland.
Sure it is Wall.... A countries first obligation is to the safety of its people. Iran IS swole up, standin in the face of Israel. Threats of a nuclear persuasion can not be taken with a turned cheek. Not when a civilization hangs in the balance. IMO, Israel should handle Israels business, in whatever way it sees fit.
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Sure it is Wall.... A countries first obligation is to the safety of its people. Iran IS swole up, standin in the face of Israel. Threats of a nuclear persuasion can not be taken with a turned cheek. Not when a civilization hangs in the balance. IMO, Israel should handle Israels business, in whatever way it sees fit.
So do we sit back and let Israel start WWIII and push oil prices to 200 or should we let them know we wont tolerate an offensive on Iran?
Not an easy question.
so some fossil fuel is more important then the safety and security of a nation? Really? Israel needs to do what Israel needs to do. This is not something that they want to do, it's something that they HAVE to do.
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Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
So do we sit back and let Israel start WWIII and push oil prices to 200 or should we let them know we wont tolerate an offensive on Iran?
Not an easy question.
so some fossil fuel is more important then the safety and security of a nation? Really? Israel needs to do what Israel needs to do. This is not something that they want to do, it's something that they HAVE to do.
so some fossil fuel is more important then the safety and security of a nation? Really? Israel needs to do what Israel needs to do. This is not something that they want to do, it's something that they HAVE to do.
I disagree.
They dont HAVE to go on an offensive attack on Iran, there are alternatives and if one of them is to have us be in their corner using diplomatic measures, then we can support that.
What we do NOT want is to choose sides and start a war in the middle east.
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Quote Originally Posted by skipper21:
so some fossil fuel is more important then the safety and security of a nation? Really? Israel needs to do what Israel needs to do. This is not something that they want to do, it's something that they HAVE to do.
I disagree.
They dont HAVE to go on an offensive attack on Iran, there are alternatives and if one of them is to have us be in their corner using diplomatic measures, then we can support that.
What we do NOT want is to choose sides and start a war in the middle east.
Well lets be clear about the situation, NEITHER side is without fault. Israel creates enemies in that region and isnt innocent by any means, for us to side with them blindly is as bad as doing nothing.
I think we need to be FIRM and realistic on how we approach this, if we do it incorrectly the consequences will be very serious.
If Israel goes on the offensive we should not support them, rather if we know they are considering it, we should make it clear it wont be tolerated..and it should not be.
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Quote Originally Posted by TIMBER9:
Talk while Iran builds.
Well lets be clear about the situation, NEITHER side is without fault. Israel creates enemies in that region and isnt innocent by any means, for us to side with them blindly is as bad as doing nothing.
I think we need to be FIRM and realistic on how we approach this, if we do it incorrectly the consequences will be very serious.
If Israel goes on the offensive we should not support them, rather if we know they are considering it, we should make it clear it wont be tolerated..and it should not be.
I agree with that for the most part. But think of this Wall, what has Israel or its people ever done to us. Now flip that?
I wouldnt take a side, but i would support whatever decision Israel, and its people feel is in best interest of its nation. The sure geographic location of that country, tends to force quick and decisive action.
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I agree with that for the most part. But think of this Wall, what has Israel or its people ever done to us. Now flip that?
I wouldnt take a side, but i would support whatever decision Israel, and its people feel is in best interest of its nation. The sure geographic location of that country, tends to force quick and decisive action.
I agree with that for the most part. But think of this Wall, what has Israel or its people ever done to us. Now flip that?
I wouldnt take a side, but i would support whatever decision Israel, and its people feel is in best interest of its nation. The sure geographic location of that country, tends to force quick and decisive action.
Israel has been an agressor from day one. They were given a safe haven and that use to be less than 25% of Israel. They ahve since expanded that to over 50% and some say they now control 70+% of Palenstine.
The Palenstinians are not happy at all about that is thus the friction. They had their holy land stolen by another religion. Israel sits back and thinks they can do whatever they please because the US has and will always back them politically and militarily. Every military piece of equipment has been from us. We arm the Israeli army and Israel is under the thought that we will side with them no matter what.
If anythign happens between Iran and Israel we can pretty much kiss goodbye to the world. There will be multiple nuclear bombs and chemical warfare used whcih will create a WW III.
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Quote Originally Posted by TIMBER9:
I agree with that for the most part. But think of this Wall, what has Israel or its people ever done to us. Now flip that?
I wouldnt take a side, but i would support whatever decision Israel, and its people feel is in best interest of its nation. The sure geographic location of that country, tends to force quick and decisive action.
Israel has been an agressor from day one. They were given a safe haven and that use to be less than 25% of Israel. They ahve since expanded that to over 50% and some say they now control 70+% of Palenstine.
The Palenstinians are not happy at all about that is thus the friction. They had their holy land stolen by another religion. Israel sits back and thinks they can do whatever they please because the US has and will always back them politically and militarily. Every military piece of equipment has been from us. We arm the Israeli army and Israel is under the thought that we will side with them no matter what.
If anythign happens between Iran and Israel we can pretty much kiss goodbye to the world. There will be multiple nuclear bombs and chemical warfare used whcih will create a WW III.
jpero... Their war is inevitable, always has been.
Will it lead to WW III? Probably, but that to is inevitable. So for me to say the people of Israel shouldnt defend themselves with whatever means they feel nec., is not responsible imo.
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jpero... Their war is inevitable, always has been.
Will it lead to WW III? Probably, but that to is inevitable. So for me to say the people of Israel shouldnt defend themselves with whatever means they feel nec., is not responsible imo.
If we don't want Israel to start WWII, then the USA needs to stop pushing Israel towards that notion. Obama's policy on Iran/Israel has done nothing but push Israel further and further towards an attack. Absolutely nothing of substance has even been attempted to dissuade them from that notion. This goes for the rest of the world, not just the USA. It starts with real, effective sanctions that will significantly impede Iran's pursuit of a deliverable nuclear weapon. If we can't convince Israel diplomacy/sanctions will work to prevent them from attaining such a weapon, the inevitable will occur. Which is a devastating Israeli air raid and missile strike on Iran.
When you are dealing with existential threats, and the threats continue unabated. The outcome is certain. WAR
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If we don't want Israel to start WWII, then the USA needs to stop pushing Israel towards that notion. Obama's policy on Iran/Israel has done nothing but push Israel further and further towards an attack. Absolutely nothing of substance has even been attempted to dissuade them from that notion. This goes for the rest of the world, not just the USA. It starts with real, effective sanctions that will significantly impede Iran's pursuit of a deliverable nuclear weapon. If we can't convince Israel diplomacy/sanctions will work to prevent them from attaining such a weapon, the inevitable will occur. Which is a devastating Israeli air raid and missile strike on Iran.
When you are dealing with existential threats, and the threats continue unabated. The outcome is certain. WAR
Do we seriously think Iran would ever really nuke Israel? For what reason would they do this? What do they stand to gain?
This is just the typical "verbal threat" give me a "physical reward" for not doing it.
If they happened to actually try to do it, what do you think would happen to Iran? Would Russia or China back such an action? Seriously Iran is pulling strings and people are buying into it.
We are FAR more likely to see another war based on what Israel ACTUALLY DOES rather that what Iran SAYS they are going to do.
If Israel launches an attack/raid/call it what you will, guess who would suddenly back Iran... yep... Russia and China (and others).
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Do we seriously think Iran would ever really nuke Israel? For what reason would they do this? What do they stand to gain?
This is just the typical "verbal threat" give me a "physical reward" for not doing it.
If they happened to actually try to do it, what do you think would happen to Iran? Would Russia or China back such an action? Seriously Iran is pulling strings and people are buying into it.
We are FAR more likely to see another war based on what Israel ACTUALLY DOES rather that what Iran SAYS they are going to do.
If Israel launches an attack/raid/call it what you will, guess who would suddenly back Iran... yep... Russia and China (and others).
I am not blindly loyal to Israel at all, I think BOTH parties have responsibility and neither is clear cut innocent.
I know quite a bit about the history and the situation and Ive seen both sides of the discussion.
In my very humble opinion, I think Israel has been an aggressor, pushed those who arent of their faith/demographic and make enemies very easily.
I think they were given the area in a way that offended others in the region (the UN did not include many of those in the region in considering giving the land or not, which offended MANY there).
Israel fights dirty and they go back on their own agreements, they attack and do very little to try and get along with others..they have PLENTY to blame here.
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skipper,
I am not blindly loyal to Israel at all, I think BOTH parties have responsibility and neither is clear cut innocent.
I know quite a bit about the history and the situation and Ive seen both sides of the discussion.
In my very humble opinion, I think Israel has been an aggressor, pushed those who arent of their faith/demographic and make enemies very easily.
I think they were given the area in a way that offended others in the region (the UN did not include many of those in the region in considering giving the land or not, which offended MANY there).
Israel fights dirty and they go back on their own agreements, they attack and do very little to try and get along with others..they have PLENTY to blame here.
You didnt address the fact that Israel was given the land without the majority in the region being able to vote or participate in the decision, do you think that might effect how the non-Israeli feels when land is taken and the "enemy" is given prime location, the enemy seals off roads and areas of access and alienates themselves in a way that is offensive?
If you are from the region then YOU know that Israel agrees to stop fighting, then goes off and bombs civilian areas under the guise of being attacked.
I dont agree with the Palestinian POV completely, but it is very easy to see that things arent so slighted as you are making them out to be. I think there is blame to both parties, to all involved and it wont stop until both sides feel they are treated fairly.
Iran dislikes Israel for most of the same reasons the Palestinians do, and no I do not see why Israel should start WWIII when there are other ways to handle the situation.
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Not at all.
You didnt address the fact that Israel was given the land without the majority in the region being able to vote or participate in the decision, do you think that might effect how the non-Israeli feels when land is taken and the "enemy" is given prime location, the enemy seals off roads and areas of access and alienates themselves in a way that is offensive?
If you are from the region then YOU know that Israel agrees to stop fighting, then goes off and bombs civilian areas under the guise of being attacked.
I dont agree with the Palestinian POV completely, but it is very easy to see that things arent so slighted as you are making them out to be. I think there is blame to both parties, to all involved and it wont stop until both sides feel they are treated fairly.
Iran dislikes Israel for most of the same reasons the Palestinians do, and no I do not see why Israel should start WWIII when there are other ways to handle the situation.
WSC when someone or somebody is trying to kill you,do you lay down all the weapons at your disposal and risk dying fighting hand to hand combat ..because the opponent doesn't have equal arms ?
What it is .....is Israel's enemies fight stupidly ...
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Israel fights dirty ?
WSC when someone or somebody is trying to kill you,do you lay down all the weapons at your disposal and risk dying fighting hand to hand combat ..because the opponent doesn't have equal arms ?
What it is .....is Israel's enemies fight stupidly ...
Fighting dirty is saying that you wont target civilian areas, then bombing the hell out of them and blaming the other side for doing so.
You know what fighting dirty is..this isnt a new subject and if one cannot see the obvious, then they are thinking biased.
I have my blinders off in regards to the subject, BOTH sides are guilty, I refuse to ignore the facts and say that Israel is being picked on, it just isnt true.
Israel is in an area they shouldnt be, it is a no-win situation and they didnt get approval from their neighbors to exist where they do, thus the fervor on BOTH sides regarding them being there.
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Slim,
Fighting dirty is saying that you wont target civilian areas, then bombing the hell out of them and blaming the other side for doing so.
You know what fighting dirty is..this isnt a new subject and if one cannot see the obvious, then they are thinking biased.
I have my blinders off in regards to the subject, BOTH sides are guilty, I refuse to ignore the facts and say that Israel is being picked on, it just isnt true.
Israel is in an area they shouldnt be, it is a no-win situation and they didnt get approval from their neighbors to exist where they do, thus the fervor on BOTH sides regarding them being there.
I have a few friends who still have family in Palestine and a few with family in Israel. I have heard both sides and as much as the Jewish people have been persecuted against throughout history... They are more at fault, IMO, and thats not to say Palestine has not done wrong either.
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wallstreet,
you have summed up the situation pretty well.
I have a few friends who still have family in Palestine and a few with family in Israel. I have heard both sides and as much as the Jewish people have been persecuted against throughout history... They are more at fault, IMO, and thats not to say Palestine has not done wrong either.
Yeah,I know what fighting dirty is........it's a Hamas rocket squad based in UN buildings and UN schoolyards and firing mortor bombs from there and from hospitals and mosques.
Fighting dirty is lobbing rockets into a civilian population (like Hamas did )and not knowing or caring where they fall... in a classroom with children ,private homes,public parks or playgrounds...........
If your blinders are truly off ,than you must see that the dirty fighting is not just coming from one side only ....
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Yeah,I know what fighting dirty is........it's a Hamas rocket squad based in UN buildings and UN schoolyards and firing mortor bombs from there and from hospitals and mosques.
Fighting dirty is lobbing rockets into a civilian population (like Hamas did )and not knowing or caring where they fall... in a classroom with children ,private homes,public parks or playgrounds...........
If your blinders are truly off ,than you must see that the dirty fighting is not just coming from one side only ....
Yeah,I know what fighting dirty is........it's a Hamas rocket squad based in UN buildings and UN schoolyards and firing mortar bombs from there and from hospitals and mosques.
Fighting dirty is lobbing rockets into a civilian population (like Hamas did )and not knowing or caring where they fall... in a classroom with children ,private homes,public parks or playgrounds...........
If your blinders are truly off ,than you must see that the dirty fighting is not just coming from one side only ....
Slim, You know that any group that leans left CAN NOT ever be called "combative" or "confrontational"....
Only those right of center are deemed wrong
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Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:
Yeah,I know what fighting dirty is........it's a Hamas rocket squad based in UN buildings and UN schoolyards and firing mortar bombs from there and from hospitals and mosques.
Fighting dirty is lobbing rockets into a civilian population (like Hamas did )and not knowing or caring where they fall... in a classroom with children ,private homes,public parks or playgrounds...........
If your blinders are truly off ,than you must see that the dirty fighting is not just coming from one side only ....
Slim, You know that any group that leans left CAN NOT ever be called "combative" or "confrontational"....
Are the Palistinians fighting clean by not allowing the International Red Cross to visit Israeli Defense Forces soldier Gilad Shait, who has been a prisioner for over 3 years ?.......... a violation of international law.
While Palestinian terrorists in Israeli prisons communicate with the outside world.
Is this inhuman treatment of Corporal Shait ..not to be considered fighting dirty ?..
...or is it seen as justified by those who think Israel is fighting dirty against an enemy (Hamas)... who every member has sworn to destroy Israel..
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Are the Palistinians fighting clean by not allowing the International Red Cross to visit Israeli Defense Forces soldier Gilad Shait, who has been a prisioner for over 3 years ?.......... a violation of international law.
While Palestinian terrorists in Israeli prisons communicate with the outside world.
Is this inhuman treatment of Corporal Shait ..not to be considered fighting dirty ?..
...or is it seen as justified by those who think Israel is fighting dirty against an enemy (Hamas)... who every member has sworn to destroy Israel..
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