Let's say numbers are so high because we test the most, as nonsensical as that is. Would the numbers cease to be high if we stopped testing. We only test people who exhibit symptoms or who have come into contact with someone affected. Neither here nor there to me and not what I wanted to address. Deaths. Everyone loves to talk about how deaths are counted. What constitutes a fraudulent death vs. what is a legitimate death. Let's, for shits and giggles, say half of those are false. And half, even with other factors, can be predominantly attributed to covid-19. 100,000 is a ton. True, it is comparable to a bad flu year but with one caveate: It would be 100,000 after more or less shutting the country down. Wearing masks, social distancing. No church, no bars, no sporting events, no school. If after that effort, we only had 50,000 deaths, 25% of what is reported, that would still be extremely alarming.
We test FAR more people than just people with symptoms or who have come into contact with someone infected.
The WHO estimates that 10% of the world has already had the virus. That would be 33,000,000 Americans.
There really isn’t data that shows our lockdowns are affective.
The bottom line is this ... if you want to stay in your house because you’re afraid of the virus, you can do that. But let the rest of us live.
Quote Originally Posted by StumpTownStu:
Let's say numbers are so high because we test the most, as nonsensical as that is. Would the numbers cease to be high if we stopped testing. We only test people who exhibit symptoms or who have come into contact with someone affected. Neither here nor there to me and not what I wanted to address. Deaths. Everyone loves to talk about how deaths are counted. What constitutes a fraudulent death vs. what is a legitimate death. Let's, for shits and giggles, say half of those are false. And half, even with other factors, can be predominantly attributed to covid-19. 100,000 is a ton. True, it is comparable to a bad flu year but with one caveate: It would be 100,000 after more or less shutting the country down. Wearing masks, social distancing. No church, no bars, no sporting events, no school. If after that effort, we only had 50,000 deaths, 25% of what is reported, that would still be extremely alarming.
We test FAR more people than just people with symptoms or who have come into contact with someone infected.
The WHO estimates that 10% of the world has already had the virus. That would be 33,000,000 Americans.
There really isn’t data that shows our lockdowns are affective.
The bottom line is this ... if you want to stay in your house because you’re afraid of the virus, you can do that. But let the rest of us live.
GOP county chair in Arkansas Steven Farmer died of covid yesterday after hosting a maskless event in September with Tom Cotton & Louie Gohmert in attendance. Gohmert just recovered from covid.
Wear a mask!
GOP county chair in Arkansas Steven Farmer died of covid yesterday after hosting a maskless event in September with Tom Cotton & Louie Gohmert in attendance. Gohmert just recovered from covid.
New England journal of medicine condemns Trump administration for failed response to pandemic and calls for him to be voted out of office. He is dangerously incompetent in handling the greatest public health crisis of our time. As a result, US has the most coronavirus cases and deaths of any country in the world. Trump recklessly squanders lives and money. We should not enable the deaths of thousands more Americans by allowing him to keep his job. Trump is the wrong leader in this pandemic. Better leadership is needed.
New England journal of medicine condemns Trump administration for failed response to pandemic and calls for him to be voted out of office. He is dangerously incompetent in handling the greatest public health crisis of our time. As a result, US has the most coronavirus cases and deaths of any country in the world. Trump recklessly squanders lives and money. We should not enable the deaths of thousands more Americans by allowing him to keep his job. Trump is the wrong leader in this pandemic. Better leadership is needed.
We'll be replacing him in November. Then SDNY can have what is left of him.
I watched this the other day on a TV interview. Michael Cohen, the former Mr. Donald J Trump's fixer, said this if Trump loses in this election, he will resign and ask succeeding President Pence to pardon him.
Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1:
We'll be replacing him in November. Then SDNY can have what is left of him.
I watched this the other day on a TV interview. Michael Cohen, the former Mr. Donald J Trump's fixer, said this if Trump loses in this election, he will resign and ask succeeding President Pence to pardon him.
GOP county chair in Arkansas Steven Farmer died of covid yesterday after hosting a maskless event in September with Tom Cotton & Louie Gohmert in attendance. Gohmert just recovered from covid. Wear a mask!
stupid is as stupid does
"I'm the MOST HONEST human being that GOD EVER created!" - Donald "the felon" Trump
Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1:
GOP county chair in Arkansas Steven Farmer died of covid yesterday after hosting a maskless event in September with Tom Cotton & Louie Gohmert in attendance. Gohmert just recovered from covid. Wear a mask!
Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1: We'll be replacing him in November. Then SDNY can have what is left of him. I watched this the other day on a TV interview. Michael Cohen, the former Mr. Donald J Trump's fixer, said this if Trump loses in this election, he will resign and ask succeeding President Pence to pardon him.
An immoral but good strategy for escaping justice....*IF* he is charged with something during that time.
As I understand it, a "blanket" pardon to anyone - even if not charged with a crime - is not enforcable.
Think about it if it were true though.....then, right now, today, trump could declare a "universal pardon" for all 331 million US citizens. Then Pence could pardon him after he loses.
What kind of chaos would that be *if* true one could be protected by a pardon WITHOUT being charged with a crime.
Quote Originally Posted by Europa:
Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1: We'll be replacing him in November. Then SDNY can have what is left of him. I watched this the other day on a TV interview. Michael Cohen, the former Mr. Donald J Trump's fixer, said this if Trump loses in this election, he will resign and ask succeeding President Pence to pardon him.
An immoral but good strategy for escaping justice....*IF* he is charged with something during that time.
As I understand it, a "blanket" pardon to anyone - even if not charged with a crime - is not enforcable.
Think about it if it were true though.....then, right now, today, trump could declare a "universal pardon" for all 331 million US citizens. Then Pence could pardon him after he loses.
What kind of chaos would that be *if* true one could be protected by a pardon WITHOUT being charged with a crime.
Quote Originally Posted by Europa: Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1: We'll be replacing him in November. Then SDNY can have what is left of him. I watched this the other day on a TV interview. Michael Cohen, the former Mr. Donald J Trump's fixer, said this if Trump loses in this election, he will resign and ask succeeding President Pence to pardon him. An immoral but good strategy for escaping justice....*IF* he is charged with something during that time. As I understand it, a "blanket" pardon to anyone - even if not charged with a crime - is not enforcable. Think about it if it were true though.....then, right now, today, trump could declare a "universal pardon" for all 331 million US citizens. Then Pence could pardon him after he loses. What kind of chaos would that be *if* true one could be protected by a pardon WITHOUT being charged with a crime.
Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon forty some years ago, "Ford issued the former president a “full, free and absolute” pardon for any crimes he committed while in office." So technically, Pence could copycat it. Or, Mr. Donald J Trump may simply choose to absolutely pardon himself if he loses in this election.
Quote Originally Posted by fubah2:
Quote Originally Posted by Europa: Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1: We'll be replacing him in November. Then SDNY can have what is left of him. I watched this the other day on a TV interview. Michael Cohen, the former Mr. Donald J Trump's fixer, said this if Trump loses in this election, he will resign and ask succeeding President Pence to pardon him. An immoral but good strategy for escaping justice....*IF* he is charged with something during that time. As I understand it, a "blanket" pardon to anyone - even if not charged with a crime - is not enforcable. Think about it if it were true though.....then, right now, today, trump could declare a "universal pardon" for all 331 million US citizens. Then Pence could pardon him after he loses. What kind of chaos would that be *if* true one could be protected by a pardon WITHOUT being charged with a crime.
Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon forty some years ago, "Ford issued the former president a “full, free and absolute” pardon for any crimes he committed while in office." So technically, Pence could copycat it. Or, Mr. Donald J Trump may simply choose to absolutely pardon himself if he loses in this election.
Quote Originally Posted by fubah2: Quote Originally Posted by Europa: Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1: We'll be replacing him in November. Then SDNY can have what is left of him. I watched this the other day on a TV interview. Michael Cohen, the former Mr. Donald J Trump's fixer, said this if Trump loses in this election, he will resign and ask succeeding President Pence to pardon him. An immoral but good strategy for escaping justice....*IF* he is charged with something during that time. As I understand it, a "blanket" pardon to anyone - even if not charged with a crime - is not enforcable. Think about it if it were true though.....then, right now, today, trump could declare a "universal pardon" for all 331 million US citizens. Then Pence could pardon him after he loses. What kind of chaos would that be *if* true one could be protected by a pardon WITHOUT being charged with a crime. Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon forty some years ago, "Ford issued the former president a “full, free and absolute” pardon for any crimes he committed while in office." So technically, Pence could copycat it. Or, Mr. Donald J Trump may simply choose to absolutely pardon himself if he loses in this election.
HE could try but Nixon was actually charged, not in a legal court *BECAUSE* he was the President, but rather in Congress.
From WaPo
In the House of Representatives, articles of impeachment were prepared. President Nixon was charged with lying, obstructing justice, and using the Internal Revenue Service (the tax office) and other government agencies illegally.Nixon was going to be impeached. After that, he would face a trial in the Senate for “high crimes and misdemeanors.”
Trump was already charged in Congress and IMPEACHED. So as I understand it, Europa, I think because of double-jeopardy he coud not be charged again for those crimes.
Once out of office he can be charged with other crimes though, but as of now he is not being charged with anything, so it seems reasonable he can't be pardonned. If so, then he would be free to go out and RAPE & MURDER multiple women & children and have full "pardon immunity" going forward. That's preposterous of course, which makes me feel that pardons can only be granted for specific crimes that a person is actually charged with - be it in court or in Congress.
Let's HOPE this is the case. If not, if Pence *could* legally grant Trump and any and all other Americans full immunity from prosecution through a "universal pardon" -- even though they aren't charged with any crime -- then trump and all those others would be free to commit multiple crimes thereafter with full immunity....
Quote Originally Posted by Europa:
Quote Originally Posted by fubah2: Quote Originally Posted by Europa: Quote Originally Posted by Midnight1: We'll be replacing him in November. Then SDNY can have what is left of him. I watched this the other day on a TV interview. Michael Cohen, the former Mr. Donald J Trump's fixer, said this if Trump loses in this election, he will resign and ask succeeding President Pence to pardon him. An immoral but good strategy for escaping justice....*IF* he is charged with something during that time. As I understand it, a "blanket" pardon to anyone - even if not charged with a crime - is not enforcable. Think about it if it were true though.....then, right now, today, trump could declare a "universal pardon" for all 331 million US citizens. Then Pence could pardon him after he loses. What kind of chaos would that be *if* true one could be protected by a pardon WITHOUT being charged with a crime. Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon forty some years ago, "Ford issued the former president a “full, free and absolute” pardon for any crimes he committed while in office." So technically, Pence could copycat it. Or, Mr. Donald J Trump may simply choose to absolutely pardon himself if he loses in this election.
HE could try but Nixon was actually charged, not in a legal court *BECAUSE* he was the President, but rather in Congress.
From WaPo
In the House of Representatives, articles of impeachment were prepared. President Nixon was charged with lying, obstructing justice, and using the Internal Revenue Service (the tax office) and other government agencies illegally.Nixon was going to be impeached. After that, he would face a trial in the Senate for “high crimes and misdemeanors.”
Trump was already charged in Congress and IMPEACHED. So as I understand it, Europa, I think because of double-jeopardy he coud not be charged again for those crimes.
Once out of office he can be charged with other crimes though, but as of now he is not being charged with anything, so it seems reasonable he can't be pardonned. If so, then he would be free to go out and RAPE & MURDER multiple women & children and have full "pardon immunity" going forward. That's preposterous of course, which makes me feel that pardons can only be granted for specific crimes that a person is actually charged with - be it in court or in Congress.
Let's HOPE this is the case. If not, if Pence *could* legally grant Trump and any and all other Americans full immunity from prosecution through a "universal pardon" -- even though they aren't charged with any crime -- then trump and all those others would be free to commit multiple crimes thereafter with full immunity....
Under the Constitution, the president may pardon only persons convicted or accused of federal crimes and offenses prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia in the name of the United States in the D.C. Superior Court.Crimes that violate state or local laws are not considered crimes against the United States and thus cannot be considered for presidential clemency.
Under the Constitution, the president may pardon only persons convicted or accused of federal crimes and offenses prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia in the name of the United States in the D.C. Superior Court.Crimes that violate state or local laws are not considered crimes against the United States and thus cannot be considered for presidential clemency.
There really isn’t data that shows our lockdowns are affective.
University of California study found lockdowns prevented over 60 million infections in the US. New York health department confirms lockdowns have proven effective in reducing spread of virus. Early lockdowns work better than late lockdowns. According to University of Chicago, governments must be careful in how they ease restrictions because reopening economy quickly can risk a spike in infections. Problem is that many states lockdown late and reopen prematurely. Without a vaccine, restrictions are the only tool that governments have. So far, most people are on the side of preserving social distancing. Best thing is to save as many lives as possible despite economic costs.
Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:
There really isn’t data that shows our lockdowns are affective.
University of California study found lockdowns prevented over 60 million infections in the US. New York health department confirms lockdowns have proven effective in reducing spread of virus. Early lockdowns work better than late lockdowns. According to University of Chicago, governments must be careful in how they ease restrictions because reopening economy quickly can risk a spike in infections. Problem is that many states lockdown late and reopen prematurely. Without a vaccine, restrictions are the only tool that governments have. So far, most people are on the side of preserving social distancing. Best thing is to save as many lives as possible despite economic costs.
During the Yale CEO summit, David Shulkin, Trump's first secretary of Veterans Affairs, expressed dismay at the federal government's handling of the pandemic. "We not only failed early on in the ability to be prepared in our supply chain and diagnostic capabilities," Shulkin said, "but our bigger failure is the consistency of message and confusion we're creating among the public."
Shulkin added that public skepticism about a potential Covid-19 vaccine "is a reflection of the failure of having a national strategy, having a consistent message among our leadership." Source: https://tinyurl.com/y6d7gmjl
trump government response created 'confusion'
During the Yale CEO summit, David Shulkin, Trump's first secretary of Veterans Affairs, expressed dismay at the federal government's handling of the pandemic. "We not only failed early on in the ability to be prepared in our supply chain and diagnostic capabilities," Shulkin said, "but our bigger failure is the consistency of message and confusion we're creating among the public."
Shulkin added that public skepticism about a potential Covid-19 vaccine "is a reflection of the failure of having a national strategy, having a consistent message among our leadership." Source: https://tinyurl.com/y6d7gmjl
Quote Originally Posted by fubah2: adding: Under the Constitution, the president may pardon only persons convicted or accused of federal crimes and offenses prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia in the name of the United States in the D.C. Superior Court. Crimes that violate state or local laws are not considered crimes against the United States and thus cannot be considered for presidential clemency. Source: https://tinyurl.com/yy9yguhu
I'm not sure if Mr. Donald J Trump will obey the Constitution, he is the 'lawless and disorder' president*.
Quote Originally Posted by fubah2: adding: Under the Constitution, the president may pardon only persons convicted or accused of federal crimes and offenses prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia in the name of the United States in the D.C. Superior Court. Crimes that violate state or local laws are not considered crimes against the United States and thus cannot be considered for presidential clemency. Source: https://tinyurl.com/yy9yguhu
I'm not sure if Mr. Donald J Trump will obey the Constitution, he is the 'lawless and disorder' president*.
And the declaration has now been signed by nearly 6,000 scientists and medical experts across the globe.
The UK-based experts who have signed it include:
Dr Sunetra Gupta, an epidemiologist at Oxford University
Nottingham University self-harm expert Prof Ellen Townsend
Edinburgh University disease modeller Dr Paul McKeigue
They say keeping the lockdown policies in place until a vaccine is available would cause "irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed".
The health harms cited include:
lower childhood vaccination rates
worsening care for heart disease and cancer patients
And they point out the risk from coronavirus is 1,000 times greater for the old and infirm, with children more at risk from flu than Covid-19.
The movement started in the US.
And the declaration has now been signed by nearly 6,000 scientists and medical experts across the globe.
The UK-based experts who have signed it include:
Dr Sunetra Gupta, an epidemiologist at Oxford University
Nottingham University self-harm expert Prof Ellen Townsend
Edinburgh University disease modeller Dr Paul McKeigue
They say keeping the lockdown policies in place until a vaccine is available would cause "irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed".
The health harms cited include:
lower childhood vaccination rates
worsening care for heart disease and cancer patients
And they point out the risk from coronavirus is 1,000 times greater for the old and infirm, with children more at risk from flu than Covid-19.
Trump says he doesn't believe he's contagious and wants to resume rallies--CNN
Mr. Donald J Trump believes he isn't contagious at all, and being a "perfect physical specimen." He is ready for campaign rallies, perhaps he is a superman gifted with perfect physical specimen.
Trump says he doesn't believe he's contagious and wants to resume rallies--CNN
Mr. Donald J Trump believes he isn't contagious at all, and being a "perfect physical specimen." He is ready for campaign rallies, perhaps he is a superman gifted with perfect physical specimen.
Quote Originally Posted by fubah2: Quote Originally Posted by fubah2: adding: Under the Constitution, the president may pardon only persons convicted or accused of federal crimes and offenses prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia in the name of the United States in the D.C. Superior Court. Crimes that violate state or local laws are not considered crimes against the United States and thus cannot be considered for presidential clemency. Source: https://tinyurl.com/yy9yguhu I'm not sure if Mr. Donald J Trump will obey the Constitution, he is the 'lawless and disorder' president*. * https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-is-not-law-order-president-lawless-disorder-rnc-2020-8
Well that is true too!!
Quote Originally Posted by Europa:
Quote Originally Posted by fubah2: Quote Originally Posted by fubah2: adding: Under the Constitution, the president may pardon only persons convicted or accused of federal crimes and offenses prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia in the name of the United States in the D.C. Superior Court. Crimes that violate state or local laws are not considered crimes against the United States and thus cannot be considered for presidential clemency. Source: https://tinyurl.com/yy9yguhu I'm not sure if Mr. Donald J Trump will obey the Constitution, he is the 'lawless and disorder' president*. * https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-is-not-law-order-president-lawless-disorder-rnc-2020-8
Rick Bright, the ousted director of the office involved in developing a coronavirus vaccine, said President Trump’s message to not be afraid of coronavirus is “reckless and deadly.”
“The messaging that President Trump gave to America and the world when he left the hospital about there is no need to be afraid of this virus, is probably the most reckless and deadly piece of information I have ever heard”
Bright resigned from his post at the National Institutes of Health this week. He was ousted from his role leading the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority and reassigned to a narrower role at NIH. He filed a whistleblower complaint this spring alleging that his early warnings about coronavirus were ignored and that his caution at hydroxychloroquine led to his removal. Source: https://tinyurl.com/y367sfpk
Trump's message on Covid-19 "deadly"
Rick Bright, the ousted director of the office involved in developing a coronavirus vaccine, said President Trump’s message to not be afraid of coronavirus is “reckless and deadly.”
“The messaging that President Trump gave to America and the world when he left the hospital about there is no need to be afraid of this virus, is probably the most reckless and deadly piece of information I have ever heard”
Bright resigned from his post at the National Institutes of Health this week. He was ousted from his role leading the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority and reassigned to a narrower role at NIH. He filed a whistleblower complaint this spring alleging that his early warnings about coronavirus were ignored and that his caution at hydroxychloroquine led to his removal. Source: https://tinyurl.com/y367sfpk
To save his own life, Trump is a hypocrite to accept covid miracle treatments which relies on cells linked to abortions. But he suspends use of fetus tissue in scientific research to woo evangelical votes. Some drugs and vaccines wouldn't exist without such research. He is the opposite of Jesus but pretends to be religious.
To save his own life, Trump is a hypocrite to accept covid miracle treatments which relies on cells linked to abortions. But he suspends use of fetus tissue in scientific research to woo evangelical votes. Some drugs and vaccines wouldn't exist without such research. He is the opposite of Jesus but pretends to be religious.
the declaration has now been signed by nearly 6,000 scientists and medical experts across the globe. They say keeping the lockdown policies in place until a vaccine is available would cause "irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed", with children more at risk from flu than Covid-19.
Barrington declaration is a controversial fringe approach opposed by World health organizaion and most public health experts. It argues against lockdowns in favor of protecting the elderly and vulnerable while allowing everyone else a normal life to build herd immunity. This misleading fix appeals to those who pretend coronavirus is not worse than the flu. However declaration is signed by many fake experts and is unsupported by evidence. Countries that manage the pandemic well have adopted aggressive mitigation that don't include letting coronavirus run wild according to University of Southampton.
England tried herd immunity and then retreated as covid toll increases rapidly. Sweden gamble has been a failure with higher rates of hospitalizations and deaths compared to neighbouring countries. Sweden is far from achieving herd immunity and economic recovery ranks among the worst in its region according to Royal society of medicine journal. Yale and British academy of medical sciences raise concerns about lasting protection. Doubtful if vulnerable people can avoid infection. Unclear if everyone infected develops immunity. Young people can still be infected leading to hospitalizations or deaths. Immunity diminish over time and re-infection is possible.
Fact is herd immunity cannot be achieved without a massive loss of life or a vaccine. One estimate is that natural herd immunity in the US requires 2 million deaths and 200 million infections. Instead a better strategy is to double down on universal mask wearing, testing and contact tracing until a vaccine is available according to Harvard.
Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:
the declaration has now been signed by nearly 6,000 scientists and medical experts across the globe. They say keeping the lockdown policies in place until a vaccine is available would cause "irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed", with children more at risk from flu than Covid-19.
Barrington declaration is a controversial fringe approach opposed by World health organizaion and most public health experts. It argues against lockdowns in favor of protecting the elderly and vulnerable while allowing everyone else a normal life to build herd immunity. This misleading fix appeals to those who pretend coronavirus is not worse than the flu. However declaration is signed by many fake experts and is unsupported by evidence. Countries that manage the pandemic well have adopted aggressive mitigation that don't include letting coronavirus run wild according to University of Southampton.
England tried herd immunity and then retreated as covid toll increases rapidly. Sweden gamble has been a failure with higher rates of hospitalizations and deaths compared to neighbouring countries. Sweden is far from achieving herd immunity and economic recovery ranks among the worst in its region according to Royal society of medicine journal. Yale and British academy of medical sciences raise concerns about lasting protection. Doubtful if vulnerable people can avoid infection. Unclear if everyone infected develops immunity. Young people can still be infected leading to hospitalizations or deaths. Immunity diminish over time and re-infection is possible.
Fact is herd immunity cannot be achieved without a massive loss of life or a vaccine. One estimate is that natural herd immunity in the US requires 2 million deaths and 200 million infections. Instead a better strategy is to double down on universal mask wearing, testing and contact tracing until a vaccine is available according to Harvard.
In misleading ad, Trump campaign twists Fauci comments to suggest approval of president response to pandemic. Fauci says comments are taken out of context without his permission. Actually, he was praising white house coronavirus task force in first month. He never publicly endorses any political candidate. Meanwhile white house blocks Fauci and members of task force from participating in interviews hosted by ABC, CBS and NBC news.
In misleading ad, Trump campaign twists Fauci comments to suggest approval of president response to pandemic. Fauci says comments are taken out of context without his permission. Actually, he was praising white house coronavirus task force in first month. He never publicly endorses any political candidate. Meanwhile white house blocks Fauci and members of task force from participating in interviews hosted by ABC, CBS and NBC news.
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