Honest question

There was a few good video clips in an article from a Steelers writer, from a local coach, demonstrating Fields’ strengths and weaknesses — like pocket presence, ability to extend plays, and going through progressions.

He, for sure, does have some strengths.  But anyone that gets drafted at QB and, especially, in the first round has some strengths.

But this is the toughest and most scrutinized job in all of sports and it is not close, for good reason.

Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers and Mahomes have mostly made fans have unrealistic expectations for their QBs.  Especially, Brady and Mahomes.

There are some very good QBs like Jackson, Burrow, Allen, Prescott, and Herbert.  But will they win multiple SBs, or even one SB.

So, teams constantly try to find the next elite QB or stick with one that is so close for too long.  Elite-level QBs are very, very rare.

So, the rest have to be developed.  But now the team has too much money invested in them.  Couple that with the fan’s lack of patience and you see young guys that are not ready and do not have time to watch and learn.  Then some simply cannot overcome that initial failure and grow.

The reason Tomlin started Wilson instead of Fields was because he had the better pocket presence, had the better ability to read defenses and go through his progressions, and the better touch on deep balls to stretch the field.  Plus he was a proven elite-level QB that had playoff experience.  If you really look at the early games they were winning but not from QB management play.  They were going to need that down the stretch. 

The same thing this off season.  There were two teams that really needed to add an elite-level QB to make them a solid contender for the playoffs and the SB — Minnesota and Pittsburgh.  Both were contenders and had solid play on both sides of the ball to be in a position to put them over the hump.  They both needed a QB that can make all of the throws and manage the game and not make the ill-advised throws at crucial times.  Rodgers wanted to go to Minnesota.  But obviously, when that  didn’t work out he went to the next best team available.

Both Wilson and Rodgers have proven to be the QB to do that.  They are elite-level and future Hall of Famers.  Fields has not proven that, yet.

Maybe he will develop into a good QB soon.  But I never see him being elite-level.  He will have to be in the ideal situation to be a threat in the playoffs.

You have to decide to go with a young guy that you hope is the future and win later or you have to decide to try to win right now while you have the rest of the pieces in place.

But more emphasis needs to be put into developing young QBs.  The game has drastically changed in the last several years.  Even bad QBs have a high completion rate and a lower amount of interceptions thrown when compared to ‘great’ QBs of just a few years ago.  It is not that these QBs are better than those from a few years ago — the game has evolved.

An extreme example would be Tebow.  He was mobile enough, had a strong enough arm, and had some intangibles that cannot be coached into a QB.

But he did not work out.  You can argue he did not have the NFL-type background in college, did not have the talent, or was not in the right place at the right time.

But the point is you are paying a coach a LOT of money to make it work if you draft him.  

You are paying the OC a LOT of money to make sure he knows the offense and defense.

You are paying the QB coach a LOT of money to get the hitch out of his throwing motion.

This was not done with him and it does not appear to have been done with Fields.

Coaches nowadays rush the young QBs onto the field not fully prepared.  Then they have a ready-made excuse for why they do not win — they drafted and started a young QB and NEED to wait on him to develop.

NO, it is YOUR job to develop him.

However, the QB is being paid a LOT of money and should find him QB guru to work with ALL offseason.  Even NBA players know to do this in the off season to enhance the weaker parts of their game.

@Raiders22

Nice list of the recent QBs

 Tua just hasn't looked the same after the concussions, had a bright future 

@Raiders22

 Rodgers and Brees only got 1 ring. Most QBs wont get one 

I saw a clip with Shannon Sharp and he said it pretty well.  He said he is too slow processing the information.  He takes too long to go through his reads.  He said it should be back up, one, two, three and get rid of the ball.  He said in college you can wait to throw to an open guy.  In the NFL you will have to throw guys open.

I think he is correct.

@dubz4dummyz

Correct.  Even most good or great ones will not of to a SB, let alone win one.

@undermysac

 Sorry to make that ramble so long.  But I remember the discussion on Fields.

I like discussions on the QB play.  

But I think this state of things apply to lots of QBs, not just him.

I still like him and his pocket presence and touch on the ball.

BUT what impresses me the most is he does not seem shell-shocked playing.

You KNOW he has had conversations about what happens if he gets another concussion.

@Raiders22

 At a certain point a QB is who he is

Jalen Hurts is a prime example... I'm not sure he is ever gonna become an above average or "great" processor

He has gotten better but he is still pretty average at it, which is basically exactly what his scouting report in the draft process said

It's always interesting to go back and read the pre-draft reports on these QBs

The "Josh Allens" are rare where they go from raw to refined products...the tangibles are there but can they put it together

The colts tried it with Anthony Richardson and its looking like a dud

Also crazy how much depends on situation and a lot of the time OL play...Daniel Jones is a prime example and to a lesser extent Mac Jones. Although they both could be 1 hit wonders ..Baker and Darnold also kinda fall under this 

@Raiders22

 Yup Fields is basically still a 1-read and drop his eyes QB...probably playing the same as his pre-draft scouting report 

Vey correct.  Hurts went into a great opportunity.

Allen has the exact same problem Jackson has.  The expectations are too high.  Look at when they make the throws that are crucial and are wrong.  A couple of Allen's throws yesterday makes you shake your head.  He always has the cannon that the young guys try to force too much.  He has gotten away from that some.

But as you say, at some point, they are who they are.  

But even though Baker and Arnold have much improved through their careers -- they choke at the most inopportune times.  Just as Allen and Jackson.

Burrow to me is a notch above them all but he cannot stay healthy.

that is what a Wilson, or Rodgers can play so long.  They were a step above where these guys ever were.  So, maybe they have fallen down to their level now but still can manage the game better.

BUT these coaches get paid a LOT to fix him and develop him.

If you gave him to a Walsh, Gibbs, or Parcells and said this is your guy for the next ten years -- they would do far better with him.

@undermysac

 This was a couple of the breakdowns from the guy that wanted Fields to stay in Pittsburgh 

https://www.steelcurtainnetwork.com/justin-fields-strengths-and-weakness-part-2-passing-potential/

Wow great thread out of nowhere. Thanks for the options.

I agree with just about everything you said Raiders22, but you lost me when you put "elite" and Russell Wilson in the same sentence. 

Maybe at some point he was elite, but not even close anymore. It was pretty painful to watch him at the end of the year with Pitt, and especially with the Giants this year.

*opinions not options 

Yes, Wilson is not what he was.  But my point was neither is Rodgers.  My point is that both of them have been at the very top tier of QBs and know how to play in crunch time and give your team the best chance to win.

Wilson was better than Fields last year, especially in close games, late in games, and under pressure, and in 1-score games.

Wilson and Rodgers did not ‘appear’ to be playing well because the expectations were far too high with a new team.  

But when you dig deep and look into the advanced efficiency numbers they were not as bad as we ‘thought’ they were.

For example, I wrote in detail last year why I thought Jackson should have won the MVP, why I could make a case for Burrow or Mahomes.  But that they would give it to Allen.  He also had a fantastic year but they wanted to give it to someone else and wanted Allen to get one.  No big problem from me.

Just because I like efficiency numbers and clutch-time numbers does not mean that a flashy and standout year should not count for something.

For example some of the numbers that I felt gave Pittsburgh the better chance to win with Wilson last year.

Out of 42+ QBs that made at least 50+ throws in the following situations:

RTG

1st Jackson 119.6

15th Wilson 95.8

19th Fields 93.3

PAA/Play

1st Jackson .160

17th Wilson .126

35th Fields -.044

ANY/A

1st Jackson 9.4

16th Wilson 6.4

26th Fields 5.9

3rd&4th Quarter only

RTG 

1st Jackson 120

10th Wilson 102

18th Fields 92.8

PAA/Play

1st Jackson .148

13th Wilson .065

39th Fields -.106

ANY/A

1st Jackson 9.4

7th Wilson 7.6

19th Fields 6.2

1-Score game play

RTG 

1st Jackson 117.3

14th Wilson 94.1

16th Fields 92.8

PAA/Play

1st Jackson .148

21st Wilson .004

31st Fields -.022

ANY/A

1st Jackson 9.1

20th Wilson 6.2

31st Fields 5.8

Under pressure

RTG

4th Jackson 103.1

17th Fields 73.2

24th Wilson 66.8

PAA/Play

1st Jackson .140

14th Wilson -.094

36th Fields -2.09

ANY/A

1st Jackson 7.3

15th Fields 3.4

22nd Wilson 2.9

So, I think Wilson gave Pittsburgh a better chance to win than Fields.  In close games and late in games he was better.  Overall he was better.  Fields was slightly better under pressure.

I think that is due to the fact that he has better escapability at this point.

But the problem with QBs that are able to run is that they look very good doing it when it does not matter as much or when they are easily winning a game already.  But do they ‘efficiently’ run when they do run.  For example, how often in clutch times do Allen, Jackson, and Fields not escape.  My example, of the best efficient runner would be Mahomes.  Look at how late in close games how when he runs it turns out to be a crucial run.

So, my overall point is that Wilson and Rodgers gave their teams the best chance to win right then.

It is not totally fair to compare QBs that went to a new team and likely a worse team to what they used to do.

But with Wilson and Fields we could compare very effectively and consistently their efficiency numbers; they played on the same team with the same players.

But it is different with the Giants.  They are a rebuilding team.  So, maybe they brought Wilson in as a stop-gap until Dart could develop.  But it is very different if they decide to go ahead and try to see how Dart does now.  Because they do not have expectations to make the playoffs, whereas, Minnesota and Pittsburgh have high expectations.

I realize numbers do not take into account everything on the field but I think the efficiency numbers show it a bit more.  I also know you can make numbers skew for your bias.

But imagine if you were to take the beating an older QB take during. Game out of it.  What if you could simply use the QB’s mind and ability to process the defense and that sort of thing.

Maybe imagine if teams could not hit the QB but only grab his flag, or if a buzzer went off after 2.5 seconds and ended the play.  Would you prefer Wilson to have made the better decision that quickly or Fields; Rodgers or Fields.

The best example of this was, of course, a hobbled and weaker-armed Manning going to Denver.  He could still process the information very quickly and the team had a lot in place that just required a solid QB to manage the game.

Then you have the example of an older Brady going to Tampa Bay and letting their play because he was still so quick and efficient at processing the information.

This is now what teams that are close to making a run to the playoffs are ‘forced’ to do because they do not have time to develop draft picks.

It is now very interesting to see how it will play out with Minnesota who decide to let a decent QB go, not get an available elite QB, and go with a still-developing young QB.  Or what will happen with the Jets that decided to move on from a proven QB.  Or what will happen with Pittsburgh that has decide to try that same ‘ploy’ two years in a row with three different veteran QBs.

For example, if you listen to Brady breakdown the defense during a game you can tell how quickly he can still process the information still.  Obviously, if he was not getting hit he could still be elite. A QB that is more a runner but has not learned to process the information is soon out of the league.  Even going back to Cunningham you should see this and how it extended his career, along with others.

@Raiders22

 So, Drake Maye then right? 

I don't have to look at #'s to know, I think my eyes are pretty good.

On the radio today I heard that Jake Browning has a better comp % than both Daniels and Williams.

@undermysac

 Of those three, I think Williams is having a slightly more efficient year so far.

But I like the trend with Maye for sure.

Factor in the situation all 3 quarterbacks have found themselves in.

Caleb is a more supportive situation now than he was with Eberflus.

Daniels was born into a steady situation.

Maybe is looking better now going from Mayo to Vrabel.

If both players stay put, Caleb Williams could have a better career than Jayden Daniels simply due to the offensive play calling; something Ben Johnson is known to excel at. 

@iConsciousness

 What do you think the Chargers would be of the Dolphins drafted Herbert instead of Tua?

They should have 

Drake Maye.  If you gave a different answer, you are stupid. 

I think some of us older folk are still stuck in the past with the prototypical white, pocket passing QB such as Drake Maye. I think he's very good, especially with the weapons they've given him the two seasons. 

Will pass on Caleb. Read the article about last season. Maybe he's a completely changed man, but an attitude like that is hard to shake. 

We've seen how bad Baltimore is without Lamar. 

Would take Daniels by a hair if healthy, but I think it's even with him and Drake when you factor in health concerns. Daniels is not a big guy, and he may run into injury issues in his career. Daniels is also a more exciting player to watch.

Caleb third by a mile. 

This also goes into the Patriots bias for this season. Other than beating Buffalo, they haven't played anyone this season. Wins over Miami (barely), Carolina, and Saints otherwise.