I just saw this 2004 movie about the genocide in Rwanda. It is one of the most intense and heartfelt movies i have seen in a while. It is also buildt on real events.
Rwanda was really the worlds shame in the 90 ties and black spot on Bill Clintons legacy.
A must see if you havent seen it.
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I just saw this 2004 movie about the genocide in Rwanda. It is one of the most intense and heartfelt movies i have seen in a while. It is also buildt on real events.
Rwanda was really the worlds shame in the 90 ties and black spot on Bill Clintons legacy.
How can you pin the event on Clinton? Is the US responsible to save the rest of the world? Where was Denmark and their efforts?
There are always multiple countries under severe dictatorship and where the people are being abused..Africa is a total mess and we could spend 100 times more than on Iraq and not even make a dent towards saving the people there.
The movie was great and sad but pinning the event on Clinton is pathetic.
Mik,
How can you pin the event on Clinton? Is the US responsible to save the rest of the world? Where was Denmark and their efforts?
There are always multiple countries under severe dictatorship and where the people are being abused..Africa is a total mess and we could spend 100 times more than on Iraq and not even make a dent towards saving the people there.
The movie was great and sad but pinning the event on Clinton is pathetic.
Bill Clinton himself has acknowledged himself in public that USA not intervening in Rwanda was his biggest failure as president.
He has stated himself that he believe one third of the people in that genocide could have been saved if USA had been willing.
The fact is that it was not, mostly due to the failure in Somalia.
You should really brush up on your history and do some google searches and see what Clinton have said about it.
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Besides that i think we can agree on that the united states is the leading power in the world, and the country who did have the political and millitary power to go into Rwanda and stop what was going on.
No Wallstreetcappers.
Bill Clinton himself has acknowledged himself in public that USA not intervening in Rwanda was his biggest failure as president.
He has stated himself that he believe one third of the people in that genocide could have been saved if USA had been willing.
The fact is that it was not, mostly due to the failure in Somalia.
You should really brush up on your history and do some google searches and see what Clinton have said about it.
______________________
Besides that i think we can agree on that the united states is the leading power in the world, and the country who did have the political and millitary power to go into Rwanda and stop what was going on.
I just dont appreciate the US always being the only country responsible for helping the rest of the world. The movie doesnt portray the US as being the one who pulled out, the European actors were more prevalent than the US if I recall, plus doesnt Europe have more presence there than the US in general?
Sure Clinton could say that every unfortunate world event that happened during his presidency is his fault, that doesnt make it so.
What made Rwanda a terrible event was decades and generations of hatred and anger between uncivilized people and a lack of strong governent and even more importantly people forgetting their morals.
Mik,
Context is always appropriate.
I just dont appreciate the US always being the only country responsible for helping the rest of the world. The movie doesnt portray the US as being the one who pulled out, the European actors were more prevalent than the US if I recall, plus doesnt Europe have more presence there than the US in general?
Sure Clinton could say that every unfortunate world event that happened during his presidency is his fault, that doesnt make it so.
What made Rwanda a terrible event was decades and generations of hatred and anger between uncivilized people and a lack of strong governent and even more importantly people forgetting their morals.
Well without making a big debate out of it, i disagree with you completely.
USA see's itself as the superpower of the world and is without doubt the one country in the world who have the best prepared millitary power, logistics and political weight to do something.
I think we can both agree that when USA wants something done, it can usually drag the europeans along. (expect that war in Iraq that was a big mistake).
It is true that the french and belgium countries had great interest there and didnt react accordingly, but had USA put this on the forefront in UN or acted alone, some 300.000 people might have been saved.
Obviously small countries can not do this alone. I am sure a multinational force could have been assempled fast had USA pushed it in the UN.
Obviously it is a tradigy that the hutus acted like they did, however they where allowed to , and that should not have happened.
Well without making a big debate out of it, i disagree with you completely.
USA see's itself as the superpower of the world and is without doubt the one country in the world who have the best prepared millitary power, logistics and political weight to do something.
I think we can both agree that when USA wants something done, it can usually drag the europeans along. (expect that war in Iraq that was a big mistake).
It is true that the french and belgium countries had great interest there and didnt react accordingly, but had USA put this on the forefront in UN or acted alone, some 300.000 people might have been saved.
Obviously small countries can not do this alone. I am sure a multinational force could have been assempled fast had USA pushed it in the UN.
Obviously it is a tradigy that the hutus acted like they did, however they where allowed to , and that should not have happened.
Putting the blame on the US because we tend to act when other countries are in need is pretty sad on your part.
Clinton regretted the event happening, that doesnt mean it is a black spot on his presidency.
Do you really think that the small UN group would have stopped the problem in the short or long term?
The problem is that the people dont have respect for themselves or each other, and that is always the cause of the type of event that happened in Rwanda. The sad thing is this event isnt a one time happening, it goes on all the time in smaller scale and has for decades.
The US could throw hundreds of millions or billions of dollars at the UN and it wouldnt stop what is happening there because the people have to rise above it and take moral responsibility and stop hating those who are different than themselves.
Look around the world, look at the middle east..Rwanda is terrible and there is no reducing the event but the middle east has more casualties over time than the event in Rwanda, and that all stems from people not being able to co-exist with differences in opinion and tyrannical rule by a select few.
The US cannot be blamed for every event that happens in the world because we step in when others wont or dont without being "dragged in" as you say.
I know you dislike the US, but the Clinton remark was lame and to blame him for not stopping Rwanda personally is a total joke.
Mik,
Putting the blame on the US because we tend to act when other countries are in need is pretty sad on your part.
Clinton regretted the event happening, that doesnt mean it is a black spot on his presidency.
Do you really think that the small UN group would have stopped the problem in the short or long term?
The problem is that the people dont have respect for themselves or each other, and that is always the cause of the type of event that happened in Rwanda. The sad thing is this event isnt a one time happening, it goes on all the time in smaller scale and has for decades.
The US could throw hundreds of millions or billions of dollars at the UN and it wouldnt stop what is happening there because the people have to rise above it and take moral responsibility and stop hating those who are different than themselves.
Look around the world, look at the middle east..Rwanda is terrible and there is no reducing the event but the middle east has more casualties over time than the event in Rwanda, and that all stems from people not being able to co-exist with differences in opinion and tyrannical rule by a select few.
The US cannot be blamed for every event that happens in the world because we step in when others wont or dont without being "dragged in" as you say.
I know you dislike the US, but the Clinton remark was lame and to blame him for not stopping Rwanda personally is a total joke.
Ofcourse its a black spot on his precidency... ever heard about people saying that the american president is not just the president of the united states, he is in fact the defacto leader of the free world.
Clinton could have saved some 300.000 if he had choosen to intervene. He did not, so obviously it is a black spot on his legacy.
Ofcourse its a black spot on his precidency... ever heard about people saying that the american president is not just the president of the united states, he is in fact the defacto leader of the free world.
Clinton could have saved some 300.000 if he had choosen to intervene. He did not, so obviously it is a black spot on his legacy.
You always bash the US when it suits your purpose. Just because Clinton expressed remorse does not mean the US was responsible.
Who was responsible were the leaders and the killers, nobody else.
Keep pointing fingers and ignoring the real reasons why things happened.
The US cannot be the peace keepers for the world, especially when the rest of the world does not chip in to help the UN and their peace keeping causes.
Rwanda was very unfortunate and I am sure Clinton wishes that every atrocity that happened while he was in office didnt need to, that does NOT make him responsible.
The Rwandan government and the killers are responsible, not the US or the UN.
Mik,
These tactics wont work.
You always bash the US when it suits your purpose. Just because Clinton expressed remorse does not mean the US was responsible.
Who was responsible were the leaders and the killers, nobody else.
Keep pointing fingers and ignoring the real reasons why things happened.
The US cannot be the peace keepers for the world, especially when the rest of the world does not chip in to help the UN and their peace keeping causes.
Rwanda was very unfortunate and I am sure Clinton wishes that every atrocity that happened while he was in office didnt need to, that does NOT make him responsible.
The Rwandan government and the killers are responsible, not the US or the UN.
Definitely. Hotel R merely skims the surface as to what happened over there. The administration had the nerve to deny and question that there was clear genocide taking place. Satellite images clearly showed rivers literally blood soaked with dead bodies. The Belgiuns of course ran away.
Yes we do not a have to take responsibility in policing the world but in this case we absolutely positively should have. Being the superpower in the world carries certain responsibility, and that includes stopping clear and present genocide. Hundreds of thousands of men woman and children were literally being slaughtered by the day. 1000 U.S troops could have stopped it with the greatest of ease almost instantly. Clinton chose not to because of foul up disaster in Mogadishu.
One of the most atrocious examples of political ignorance and cruelty in history that god damn administration.
There is also a PBS documentry available that is incredibly thorough. I suggest all you view it, gather the facts and make the decision for yourselves.
Quote Originally Posted by Mikael99:
Thanks Searchwarrent , i'll check it out.
Definitely. Hotel R merely skims the surface as to what happened over there. The administration had the nerve to deny and question that there was clear genocide taking place. Satellite images clearly showed rivers literally blood soaked with dead bodies. The Belgiuns of course ran away.
Yes we do not a have to take responsibility in policing the world but in this case we absolutely positively should have. Being the superpower in the world carries certain responsibility, and that includes stopping clear and present genocide. Hundreds of thousands of men woman and children were literally being slaughtered by the day. 1000 U.S troops could have stopped it with the greatest of ease almost instantly. Clinton chose not to because of foul up disaster in Mogadishu.
One of the most atrocious examples of political ignorance and cruelty in history that god damn administration.
There is also a PBS documentry available that is incredibly thorough. I suggest all you view it, gather the facts and make the decision for yourselves.
I could go on and on about Rwanda and some of the completely inaccurate comments above as I have read books, watched documentries etc on the subject. Tribal warfare is a way of life in Africa and it will run its course - not our problem agreed - but when innocent human beings are being butchered, abandoned and left for dead by civilized and capable countries then I simply throw my arms up.
There are many military heros that stayed in Rwanda under the UN - (Belgium left under order from the United States by the way), as they couldn't bring themselves to leave those people.
Clinton hid behind is disgusting lies and press secretary nonsense that continually refused to define or acknowledge the word "genocide" to even the most seasoned journalists.
Fact is so many lives could have been protected from drunken Hutu machete carrying thugs by mere handfuls of well armed U.S troops without even a disruption of the course of civil military conflict that was taking place disgusts me.
I could go on and on about Rwanda and some of the completely inaccurate comments above as I have read books, watched documentries etc on the subject. Tribal warfare is a way of life in Africa and it will run its course - not our problem agreed - but when innocent human beings are being butchered, abandoned and left for dead by civilized and capable countries then I simply throw my arms up.
There are many military heros that stayed in Rwanda under the UN - (Belgium left under order from the United States by the way), as they couldn't bring themselves to leave those people.
Clinton hid behind is disgusting lies and press secretary nonsense that continually refused to define or acknowledge the word "genocide" to even the most seasoned journalists.
Fact is so many lives could have been protected from drunken Hutu machete carrying thugs by mere handfuls of well armed U.S troops without even a disruption of the course of civil military conflict that was taking place disgusts me.
My comment is that as a country we arent responsible for African atrocities, nor do I think that 1,000 troops could have stopped what happened.
The issue is the state of the continent and that Rwanda is probably not the worst event to happen there over the last 100 years.
Clinton regretted what happened, but last I checked we arent the UN, and we arent the ONLY people in the world who try to help other countries, but it sure seems that the US is the only country that gets sh!tted on when bad things happen in the world. Guys like Mik who arent citizens throw most of the blame for human rights events like that on the US as if we were the government or we as a country were the ones who killed the people.
The real problem is organization, hatred and education. You cannot throw money or people at problems in that manner, it takes years and years of work and education and infrastructure which 1000 troops and some money would not change.
I am against blame and finger pointing, it sure isnt helping things going on over there right now..that continent is a disaster and has been for centuries, I think blaming Clinton or any outside person is a short sided view and is a mistake.
Rickey,
My comment is that as a country we arent responsible for African atrocities, nor do I think that 1,000 troops could have stopped what happened.
The issue is the state of the continent and that Rwanda is probably not the worst event to happen there over the last 100 years.
Clinton regretted what happened, but last I checked we arent the UN, and we arent the ONLY people in the world who try to help other countries, but it sure seems that the US is the only country that gets sh!tted on when bad things happen in the world. Guys like Mik who arent citizens throw most of the blame for human rights events like that on the US as if we were the government or we as a country were the ones who killed the people.
The real problem is organization, hatred and education. You cannot throw money or people at problems in that manner, it takes years and years of work and education and infrastructure which 1000 troops and some money would not change.
I am against blame and finger pointing, it sure isnt helping things going on over there right now..that continent is a disaster and has been for centuries, I think blaming Clinton or any outside person is a short sided view and is a mistake.
The point is the US is not the punching bag for the world.
You know that for every one instance that the US and the UN could help there are 5 others going on at the same time, maybe more?
Where was your country the whole time? I think the blame should be put on soft, lazy, indifferent socialist countries who like to point fingers and sit back to attack evil capitalist countries like the US.
Clinton doesnt run the UN Mik..your country has responsibility, every country in the world could have stepped in, but it is easy and lazy for you to always blame the US I guess.
Mik,
The point is the US is not the punching bag for the world.
You know that for every one instance that the US and the UN could help there are 5 others going on at the same time, maybe more?
Where was your country the whole time? I think the blame should be put on soft, lazy, indifferent socialist countries who like to point fingers and sit back to attack evil capitalist countries like the US.
Clinton doesnt run the UN Mik..your country has responsibility, every country in the world could have stepped in, but it is easy and lazy for you to always blame the US I guess.
I think it is a little pathetic that you keep bringing up that a country such as Denmark should have intervened instead.
Why do you choose to ignore the facts that Rickey and i have brought up in this thread, which was that Clintons administration in reality ignored this, and carefully choose not to call it a genocide, because had they done that... they would have been committed to do something .. according to the treatys they have signed a good many years ago.
So basicly your point of view is that USA should help no one but themselves and that they have no responsiblity to do anything about what goes on outside the american borders, except if it hurts its geopolitical interests.
Thats sorta a cynic point of view.
Oh dear ..
I think it is a little pathetic that you keep bringing up that a country such as Denmark should have intervened instead.
Why do you choose to ignore the facts that Rickey and i have brought up in this thread, which was that Clintons administration in reality ignored this, and carefully choose not to call it a genocide, because had they done that... they would have been committed to do something .. according to the treatys they have signed a good many years ago.
So basicly your point of view is that USA should help no one but themselves and that they have no responsiblity to do anything about what goes on outside the american borders, except if it hurts its geopolitical interests.
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