Christian Morecraft, Mark Hunt, and Ben Rothwell. Mark Hunt might get a pass because he has a special situation. Whomever negotiated his contract for pride before the ufc bought them out was a genius. I believe it called for 6 fights by the time the ufc bought pride. UFC had no choice but to buy out the contract or let mark hunt fight despite all his losses in a row. Mark Hunt chose to fight out the contract and is 2-1 in the ufc but he's still a tomato can if you think about who he's fought, among others a fellow tomato can in ben rothwell.
Light Heavyweight division
Tito Ortiz (the ultimate can of cans, tomatos and tuna what not), Stephan Bonnar (dude lost to mark coleman in 2009), Forrest Griffin, Rich Franklin, and kyle kingsbury. Just cause a guy hasn't lost 2-3 fights or more in a row doesn't mean he's not a can but don't you ever wonder why forrest and tito want to fight each other for a 3rd time? Who the hell wants to see this again? Both of these guys know that they won't have to train, win or lose for either one of them doesn't jump them up in any picture at all. To me it's very sad that it has come down to both of them collecting a paycheck but maybe they both have already put in a lot of work early on in their careers.
Middleweight division
Chris Leben, Jason McDonald, Alessio Sakara, Dan Miller, Wanderlei Silva, CB Dollaway, Steve Cantwell, Eric Schaefer, Luiz Cane (should have been cut but has seemingly been given another chance at middleweight, why the fuck did joey beltran get cut then since he's dropping down to lightweight?), tom Lawlor, Mike Massenzio, and dustin jacoby.
Welterweight Division
Matt Hughes, Matt Serra, Mike Swick, Matt Brown (doesn't know how to defend guillotine chokes), Dan Hardy (ultimate tuna can), Duane Ludwig, Daniel roberts, yoshihiro akiyama (was definitely a can at middleweight, now will have his first fight at welterweight at ufc 144 japan), Chris cope, and ricardo funch.
Lightweight division
spencer fisher, mac danzig, efrain escudero, rafaello oliveira, michael johnson, takanori gomi, and cody mckenzie.
featherweight division
tyson griffin, leonard garcia, michihiro omigawa, matt grice, nam phan, bryan caraway, vagner rocha
bantamweights
jeff curran, alex caceres, ken stone, and kid yamamoto.
If any of these guys can master the art of further cutting weight in order to drop down in weight class, they might be null and void off this list. For those that want to make arguments of who should be taken off this list, start firing away and we shall start making/building cases.
To remove first post, remove entire topic.
Heavyweight division
Christian Morecraft, Mark Hunt, and Ben Rothwell. Mark Hunt might get a pass because he has a special situation. Whomever negotiated his contract for pride before the ufc bought them out was a genius. I believe it called for 6 fights by the time the ufc bought pride. UFC had no choice but to buy out the contract or let mark hunt fight despite all his losses in a row. Mark Hunt chose to fight out the contract and is 2-1 in the ufc but he's still a tomato can if you think about who he's fought, among others a fellow tomato can in ben rothwell.
Light Heavyweight division
Tito Ortiz (the ultimate can of cans, tomatos and tuna what not), Stephan Bonnar (dude lost to mark coleman in 2009), Forrest Griffin, Rich Franklin, and kyle kingsbury. Just cause a guy hasn't lost 2-3 fights or more in a row doesn't mean he's not a can but don't you ever wonder why forrest and tito want to fight each other for a 3rd time? Who the hell wants to see this again? Both of these guys know that they won't have to train, win or lose for either one of them doesn't jump them up in any picture at all. To me it's very sad that it has come down to both of them collecting a paycheck but maybe they both have already put in a lot of work early on in their careers.
Middleweight division
Chris Leben, Jason McDonald, Alessio Sakara, Dan Miller, Wanderlei Silva, CB Dollaway, Steve Cantwell, Eric Schaefer, Luiz Cane (should have been cut but has seemingly been given another chance at middleweight, why the fuck did joey beltran get cut then since he's dropping down to lightweight?), tom Lawlor, Mike Massenzio, and dustin jacoby.
Welterweight Division
Matt Hughes, Matt Serra, Mike Swick, Matt Brown (doesn't know how to defend guillotine chokes), Dan Hardy (ultimate tuna can), Duane Ludwig, Daniel roberts, yoshihiro akiyama (was definitely a can at middleweight, now will have his first fight at welterweight at ufc 144 japan), Chris cope, and ricardo funch.
Lightweight division
spencer fisher, mac danzig, efrain escudero, rafaello oliveira, michael johnson, takanori gomi, and cody mckenzie.
featherweight division
tyson griffin, leonard garcia, michihiro omigawa, matt grice, nam phan, bryan caraway, vagner rocha
bantamweights
jeff curran, alex caceres, ken stone, and kid yamamoto.
If any of these guys can master the art of further cutting weight in order to drop down in weight class, they might be null and void off this list. For those that want to make arguments of who should be taken off this list, start firing away and we shall start making/building cases.
I don't disagree with this list really..although I do think there are different levels of "cans" (if thats possible). For example..Matt hughes..the game has passed him by and guys like Koscheck have called him out for an "easy payday"....but I wouldnt put him in the same category as Matt Brown who has about .500 record and struggles against top30 competition. But i would say hughes is one danas butt budds
I don't disagree with this list really..although I do think there are different levels of "cans" (if thats possible). For example..Matt hughes..the game has passed him by and guys like Koscheck have called him out for an "easy payday"....but I wouldnt put him in the same category as Matt Brown who has about .500 record and struggles against top30 competition. But i would say hughes is one danas butt budds
funny u mention hunt.....as i think he is pretty much one dimensional but i like him in his fight vs kongo coming up next weekend....hes got more power and a stronger chin.....so unless kongo has suddenly become a wrestler i think hunt matches up well
funny u mention hunt.....as i think he is pretty much one dimensional but i like him in his fight vs kongo coming up next weekend....hes got more power and a stronger chin.....so unless kongo has suddenly become a wrestler i think hunt matches up well
Saying these guys are cans is akin to saying the guys on the end of an NBA bench suck. They are still pretty damn good and I'd hazard you'd be fortunate to last 30 seconds against anyone on your list.
Saying these guys are cans is akin to saying the guys on the end of an NBA bench suck. They are still pretty damn good and I'd hazard you'd be fortunate to last 30 seconds against anyone on your list.
tito and forrest are past prime but i don't see many "cans" in the UFC. most of these guys would be in the mix for a belt in any other organization. all these guys fight each other its why being .500 or more in the UFC is no joke
i could go just about every fighter but the ones that stuck out.Matt Hughes- ok a loss to BJ, right before he sub'd a 4th degree bjj black belt, also a hall of famer not a can- Matt Serra at like 4 foot tall has some good wins even at 170, i thought he won the BJ fight back in the day, and that Hughes fight could have went either way, plus is he still fighting, the sad thing is that guy would have tore it up at 155?
Wanderlei Silva, just beat Lee, a hall of famer who's never had an easy fight, lets see how he does at 185
Chris Leben, 12-7 in the UFC
yoshihiro akiyama- to soon
Dan Miller- lost to Maia\bisping\nate\ palhares all by decision
tito and forrest are past prime but i don't see many "cans" in the UFC. most of these guys would be in the mix for a belt in any other organization. all these guys fight each other its why being .500 or more in the UFC is no joke
i could go just about every fighter but the ones that stuck out.Matt Hughes- ok a loss to BJ, right before he sub'd a 4th degree bjj black belt, also a hall of famer not a can- Matt Serra at like 4 foot tall has some good wins even at 170, i thought he won the BJ fight back in the day, and that Hughes fight could have went either way, plus is he still fighting, the sad thing is that guy would have tore it up at 155?
Wanderlei Silva, just beat Lee, a hall of famer who's never had an easy fight, lets see how he does at 185
Chris Leben, 12-7 in the UFC
yoshihiro akiyama- to soon
Dan Miller- lost to Maia\bisping\nate\ palhares all by decision
Saying these guys are cans is akin to saying the guys on the end of an NBA bench suck. They are still pretty damn good and I'd hazard you'd be fortunate to last 30 seconds against anyone on your list.
Thank you for replying to my message of sarcasm so please allow me to explain if you may allow me so kindly. My name is TheCrow and i am a slight frequenter of this forum who loves to state my opinion on this board in order to gather the intelligent and the likes who might get a little chuckle based on what i have to say from time to time especially with mma since it is my passion. For you to say that i will never last more than 30 seconds against these so called tomato cans i list is too much of a compliment to me. The fact of the matter is that i would be lucky to last 10 seconds in the cage let alone the beatdown those bullies receive on mtv bully beatdown. For those of you reading on i'd like to request and excuse myself for being the "armchair quarterback" of mma from time to time but actually i enjoy the party who enjoys playing the role of "devil's advocate" just for the sake of intelligent argument. I'd also want to mention the fact that my list of tomato cans were never meant to be anything personal for any of the fighters on the list. Is is possible that you would be the tomato can of bellator and strikeforce let alone the ufc? Again my apologies if you are an up and coming mma fighter yourself, or that you are closely related to the cans on the list or possibly even have trained with them in the past.
remember1118 is actually very right. There are so many diferent levels of "cans" that the subject can entail for instance the "cans" of the nba sitting on the bench are the highest paid bench warmers known to mankind, and very very well paid i might add. I also realize that the hecklers sitting right behind them also paid for a ticket and have every right to say whatever they want without crossing the line. I apologize if you see a couple of your idols on this list or what not, but i don't feel this crosses the line. Thank you for allowing the opportunity to explain myself.
Quote Originally Posted by esplanade:
Saying these guys are cans is akin to saying the guys on the end of an NBA bench suck. They are still pretty damn good and I'd hazard you'd be fortunate to last 30 seconds against anyone on your list.
Thank you for replying to my message of sarcasm so please allow me to explain if you may allow me so kindly. My name is TheCrow and i am a slight frequenter of this forum who loves to state my opinion on this board in order to gather the intelligent and the likes who might get a little chuckle based on what i have to say from time to time especially with mma since it is my passion. For you to say that i will never last more than 30 seconds against these so called tomato cans i list is too much of a compliment to me. The fact of the matter is that i would be lucky to last 10 seconds in the cage let alone the beatdown those bullies receive on mtv bully beatdown. For those of you reading on i'd like to request and excuse myself for being the "armchair quarterback" of mma from time to time but actually i enjoy the party who enjoys playing the role of "devil's advocate" just for the sake of intelligent argument. I'd also want to mention the fact that my list of tomato cans were never meant to be anything personal for any of the fighters on the list. Is is possible that you would be the tomato can of bellator and strikeforce let alone the ufc? Again my apologies if you are an up and coming mma fighter yourself, or that you are closely related to the cans on the list or possibly even have trained with them in the past.
remember1118 is actually very right. There are so many diferent levels of "cans" that the subject can entail for instance the "cans" of the nba sitting on the bench are the highest paid bench warmers known to mankind, and very very well paid i might add. I also realize that the hecklers sitting right behind them also paid for a ticket and have every right to say whatever they want without crossing the line. I apologize if you see a couple of your idols on this list or what not, but i don't feel this crosses the line. Thank you for allowing the opportunity to explain myself.
just took another look at the list with respect to your reply in this thread esplanade, and i gotta tell you that chris leben would knock the fuck outta me in 5 seconds so that's the truth, don't mind me.
just took another look at the list with respect to your reply in this thread esplanade, and i gotta tell you that chris leben would knock the fuck outta me in 5 seconds so that's the truth, don't mind me.
funny u mention hunt.....as i think he is pretty much one dimensional but i like him in his fight vs kongo coming up next weekend....hes got more power and a stronger chin.....so unless kongo has suddenly become a wrestler i think hunt matches up well
Read this earlier, so back to say you were dead on!
Quote Originally Posted by Bighurt:
funny u mention hunt.....as i think he is pretty much one dimensional but i like him in his fight vs kongo coming up next weekend....hes got more power and a stronger chin.....so unless kongo has suddenly become a wrestler i think hunt matches up well
Read this earlier, so back to say you were dead on!
we need to make a list of guys that almost always have value betting against.. guys that are overated by the public and overated by the books because of the public...
we need to make a list of guys that almost always have value betting against.. guys that are overated by the public and overated by the books because of the public...
mark hunt really surprises me, he's 38 now but once he gets matched up with a wrestler/grappler who can take one of his punches while getting takendown, he won't win. ben rothwell said that he totally changed his training camp and that even with some previous wins in the ufc, it's not who he really is, at least it shows he's trying to better himself as a fighter.
I also notice that the cans that i listed back in feb have either already fought each other or about to fight each other. Some fighters have since dropped down in weight class but have not fought at the new weight class yet.
What's strange about tyson griffin was that he was actually released from the ufc after his fight last october but it wasn't announced until this month. That's very odd.
There are a handful that i listed who have already since been cut but that matt brown fight with steven thompson really has me thinking again, who would have ever thought thompson's ground game was that bad, it was so embarrassing. It's going to be hard to come up with some new names to this list just because so many of the fighters from the last TUF live cruz/faber are really good fighters and then you have the TUF brazil fighters that are unknowns in my eyes, but overall it looks like the ufc is doing a really good job.
mark hunt really surprises me, he's 38 now but once he gets matched up with a wrestler/grappler who can take one of his punches while getting takendown, he won't win. ben rothwell said that he totally changed his training camp and that even with some previous wins in the ufc, it's not who he really is, at least it shows he's trying to better himself as a fighter.
I also notice that the cans that i listed back in feb have either already fought each other or about to fight each other. Some fighters have since dropped down in weight class but have not fought at the new weight class yet.
What's strange about tyson griffin was that he was actually released from the ufc after his fight last october but it wasn't announced until this month. That's very odd.
There are a handful that i listed who have already since been cut but that matt brown fight with steven thompson really has me thinking again, who would have ever thought thompson's ground game was that bad, it was so embarrassing. It's going to be hard to come up with some new names to this list just because so many of the fighters from the last TUF live cruz/faber are really good fighters and then you have the TUF brazil fighters that are unknowns in my eyes, but overall it looks like the ufc is doing a really good job.
yeah Matt Hughes is a can...greatest WW ever and possibly the best UFC fighter ever. Seriously, you're a noob and know nothing about MMA. Sure he's washed up, but how dare you? Wanderlei Silva? WTF? You're a moron.
Is Michael Jordan a can?
yeah Matt Hughes is a can...greatest WW ever and possibly the best UFC fighter ever. Seriously, you're a noob and know nothing about MMA. Sure he's washed up, but how dare you? Wanderlei Silva? WTF? You're a moron.
Anybody who thinks Rich Franklin is a tomato can is a complete BUM.
It is very difficult to imagine anything more ignorant then saying that.
lol of all the guys listed, you defend Rich Franklin? Rich Franklin actually IS a can. He's the most glorified UFC poster boy...severely overrated and never really beat anyone. Plus, he lost to Forrest, which is basically impossible to defend.
Quote Originally Posted by Ranx777:
Anybody who thinks Rich Franklin is a tomato can is a complete BUM.
It is very difficult to imagine anything more ignorant then saying that.
lol of all the guys listed, you defend Rich Franklin? Rich Franklin actually IS a can. He's the most glorified UFC poster boy...severely overrated and never really beat anyone. Plus, he lost to Forrest, which is basically impossible to defend.
we need to make a list of guys that almost always have value betting against.. guys that are overated by the public and overated by the books because of the public...
schaub and dollaway are on my fade list if fighting a striker with good td defense. however, there may only be a couple more opportunities before theyre both cut.
Quote Originally Posted by MoneyShot:
we need to make a list of guys that almost always have value betting against.. guys that are overated by the public and overated by the books because of the public...
schaub and dollaway are on my fade list if fighting a striker with good td defense. however, there may only be a couple more opportunities before theyre both cut.
It's laughable to hear someone say 'Rich Franklin is a tomato can.' How ignorant. You either don't know MMA, recently started watching (last few years), or just have a bad memory. Where do I start?
First off, I will start with the part that isnt even that important to me. The man has NEVER lost to anyone that wasn't a former world champion. Whenever he wasn't fighting top notch competition, he dispatched of them rather easily. Not saying Yushin Okami, Travis Lutter, MattHamill, Jorge Rivera, Evan Tanner, Jason McDonald, Quarry, Shamrock, Louiseau, etc. are great fighters, but not many of those guys are scrubs either.
The main point is, he has fought 5 straight former world champs and I think we all can agree, during that time, he was on the back end of his career. The man is 37 now, almost 38. The UFC didn't offer nearly the fighters it does now, and Franklin still does very well against some of the best. Let me remind you:
One judge scored his fight against Dan Henderson as 30-27, giving all three rounds to Rich, which I actually agreed, that was what I scored the fight as well when I watched it live. The other two judges 29-28 for Dan, thats fine though. I know one thing, Hendo is no can.
Franklin put on an extremely entertaining main event vs Wandy is their first fight. People talk about this shit card coming up, well it depends what you are looking for. Are you looking for big names on the card (JDS dominating Mir, Cain dominating Bigfoot) or are you looking for entertaining competitive fights. Neither guy is in their prime, sure, but two warriors battling, I will take that in my Main Event every night.
The Can Franklin, in his first 13 UFC fights, only one went the distance. I hear people bitch non stop about decisions, Franklin didnt have many. He was either finishing fights or getting finished by the best MMA fighter in history.
Check out the submissions Franklin gets out of vs Travis Lutter and Yushin Okami, it was truly amazing what he pulled off.
Check out his fight vs Chuck Liddell, granted a washed up one, Chuck brought it that night... and Rich BROKE HIS ARM, still managed to get the KO with his other arm.
Check out his rematch vs Anderson Silva, a man who he got thoroughly dominated by in fight 1, then it fight 2, took it to him all of round 1, winning the round until he got dropped by a quick accurate right hand of Anderson. Rich's corner literally carried him to his stool. And what did Rich do at the start of round 2... he went for broke, went on the attack again... then took the 2nd worst beating of his life lol... that was probably the most courageous thing I have seen in the UFC. Exactly what your typical tomato can would do, right?
Rich was a top 5 pound for pound fighter even after his lost to Anderson, but everyone of course forgot that, and then he got a little older too, but geez, what do you want the man to do. 5 fights vs world champs in a row, most of them competitive entertaining fights. Answers the bell whenever the UFC has asked, and is a lock as a future Hall of Famer....
Perfect description of a tomato can.
It's laughable to hear someone say 'Rich Franklin is a tomato can.' How ignorant. You either don't know MMA, recently started watching (last few years), or just have a bad memory. Where do I start?
First off, I will start with the part that isnt even that important to me. The man has NEVER lost to anyone that wasn't a former world champion. Whenever he wasn't fighting top notch competition, he dispatched of them rather easily. Not saying Yushin Okami, Travis Lutter, MattHamill, Jorge Rivera, Evan Tanner, Jason McDonald, Quarry, Shamrock, Louiseau, etc. are great fighters, but not many of those guys are scrubs either.
The main point is, he has fought 5 straight former world champs and I think we all can agree, during that time, he was on the back end of his career. The man is 37 now, almost 38. The UFC didn't offer nearly the fighters it does now, and Franklin still does very well against some of the best. Let me remind you:
One judge scored his fight against Dan Henderson as 30-27, giving all three rounds to Rich, which I actually agreed, that was what I scored the fight as well when I watched it live. The other two judges 29-28 for Dan, thats fine though. I know one thing, Hendo is no can.
Franklin put on an extremely entertaining main event vs Wandy is their first fight. People talk about this shit card coming up, well it depends what you are looking for. Are you looking for big names on the card (JDS dominating Mir, Cain dominating Bigfoot) or are you looking for entertaining competitive fights. Neither guy is in their prime, sure, but two warriors battling, I will take that in my Main Event every night.
The Can Franklin, in his first 13 UFC fights, only one went the distance. I hear people bitch non stop about decisions, Franklin didnt have many. He was either finishing fights or getting finished by the best MMA fighter in history.
Check out the submissions Franklin gets out of vs Travis Lutter and Yushin Okami, it was truly amazing what he pulled off.
Check out his fight vs Chuck Liddell, granted a washed up one, Chuck brought it that night... and Rich BROKE HIS ARM, still managed to get the KO with his other arm.
Check out his rematch vs Anderson Silva, a man who he got thoroughly dominated by in fight 1, then it fight 2, took it to him all of round 1, winning the round until he got dropped by a quick accurate right hand of Anderson. Rich's corner literally carried him to his stool. And what did Rich do at the start of round 2... he went for broke, went on the attack again... then took the 2nd worst beating of his life lol... that was probably the most courageous thing I have seen in the UFC. Exactly what your typical tomato can would do, right?
Rich was a top 5 pound for pound fighter even after his lost to Anderson, but everyone of course forgot that, and then he got a little older too, but geez, what do you want the man to do. 5 fights vs world champs in a row, most of them competitive entertaining fights. Answers the bell whenever the UFC has asked, and is a lock as a future Hall of Famer....
It's laughable to hear someone say 'Rich Franklin is a tomato can.' How ignorant. You either don't know MMA, recently started watching (last few years), or just have a bad memory. Where do I start?
First off, I will start with the part that isnt even that important to me. The man has NEVER lost to anyone that wasn't a former world champion. Whenever he wasn't fighting top notch competition, he dispatched of them rather easily. Not saying Yushin Okami, Travis Lutter, MattHamill, Jorge Rivera, Evan Tanner, Jason McDonald, Quarry, Shamrock, Louiseau, etc. are great fighters, but not many of those guys are scrubs either.
The main point is, he has fought 5 straight former world champs and I think we all can agree, during that time, he was on the back end of his career. The man is 37 now, almost 38. The UFC didn't offer nearly the fighters it does now, and Franklin still does very well against some of the best. Let me remind you:
One judge scored his fight against Dan Henderson as 30-27, giving all three rounds to Rich, which I actually agreed, that was what I scored the fight as well when I watched it live. The other two judges 29-28 for Dan, thats fine though. I know one thing, Hendo is no can.
Franklin put on an extremely entertaining main event vs Wandy is their first fight. People talk about this shit card coming up, well it depends what you are looking for. Are you looking for big names on the card (JDS dominating Mir, Cain dominating Bigfoot) or are you looking for entertaining competitive fights. Neither guy is in their prime, sure, but two warriors battling, I will take that in my Main Event every night.
The Can Franklin, in his first 13 UFC fights, only one went the distance. I hear people bitch non stop about decisions, Franklin didnt have many. He was either finishing fights or getting finished by the best MMA fighter in history.
Check out the submissions Franklin gets out of vs Travis Lutter and Yushin Okami, it was truly amazing what he pulled off.
Check out his fight vs Chuck Liddell, granted a washed up one, Chuck brought it that night... and Rich BROKE HIS ARM, still managed to get the KO with his other arm.
Check out his rematch vs Anderson Silva, a man who he got thoroughly dominated by in fight 1, then it fight 2, took it to him all of round 1, winning the round until he got dropped by a quick accurate right hand of Anderson. Rich's corner literally carried him to his stool. And what did Rich do at the start of round 2... he went for broke, went on the attack again... then took the 2nd worst beating of his life lol... that was probably the most courageous thing I have seen in the UFC. Exactly what your typical tomato can would do, right?
Rich was a top 5 pound for pound fighter even after his lost to Anderson, but everyone of course forgot that, and then he got a little older too, but geez, what do you want the man to do. 5 fights vs world champs in a row, most of them competitive entertaining fights. Answers the bell whenever the UFC has asked, and is a lock as a future Hall of Famer....
Perfect description of a tomato can.
i concede about rich franklin, he's not a can. You have too many valid bulletproof points. I may have been clouded by the fact that rich franklin didn't know how to defend the muay thai clinch with knees owning his ass not once but the same shit the 2nd time. I'm sorry but i just can't get over it 100%. Jacob Volkmann himself has even taken exception to his current haircut which looks like lloyd christmas on strike with barber shops. Rich franklin to me is ok, he did a great job when he covered for ufc on fuel tv a handful of weeks back, but i look back on his career and i'm just not impressed by his performance and i apologize for that. He has been around a very long time and i respect for what he has done but more importantly he stands as a -170 favorite on saturday to beat wanderlei and i feel that is totally fucked up. Wanderlei in brazil in front of the screaming fans of a ppv that might barely get 150,000 buys in the usa/canada meanwhile will prolly get 150 million people watching their hero in brazil on free tv? (i gotta say 1 ppv buy in brazil means 1,000 people are watching that same tv)
Got damnit rich franklin you ought to be that tomato can this weekend, that same can that took the same knees in the muay thai clinch in the 2nd fight vs anderson, why couldn't you defend it? Where was matt hume for you right then and there? Do you realize that cung le took a knee straight to the nose that broke it during wanderlei's last fight? Rich Franklin shall be defeated this weekend while some of us make money and that's the bottom line. Wanderlei's at +150 as of now on 5dimes.
Quote Originally Posted by Ranx777:
It's laughable to hear someone say 'Rich Franklin is a tomato can.' How ignorant. You either don't know MMA, recently started watching (last few years), or just have a bad memory. Where do I start?
First off, I will start with the part that isnt even that important to me. The man has NEVER lost to anyone that wasn't a former world champion. Whenever he wasn't fighting top notch competition, he dispatched of them rather easily. Not saying Yushin Okami, Travis Lutter, MattHamill, Jorge Rivera, Evan Tanner, Jason McDonald, Quarry, Shamrock, Louiseau, etc. are great fighters, but not many of those guys are scrubs either.
The main point is, he has fought 5 straight former world champs and I think we all can agree, during that time, he was on the back end of his career. The man is 37 now, almost 38. The UFC didn't offer nearly the fighters it does now, and Franklin still does very well against some of the best. Let me remind you:
One judge scored his fight against Dan Henderson as 30-27, giving all three rounds to Rich, which I actually agreed, that was what I scored the fight as well when I watched it live. The other two judges 29-28 for Dan, thats fine though. I know one thing, Hendo is no can.
Franklin put on an extremely entertaining main event vs Wandy is their first fight. People talk about this shit card coming up, well it depends what you are looking for. Are you looking for big names on the card (JDS dominating Mir, Cain dominating Bigfoot) or are you looking for entertaining competitive fights. Neither guy is in their prime, sure, but two warriors battling, I will take that in my Main Event every night.
The Can Franklin, in his first 13 UFC fights, only one went the distance. I hear people bitch non stop about decisions, Franklin didnt have many. He was either finishing fights or getting finished by the best MMA fighter in history.
Check out the submissions Franklin gets out of vs Travis Lutter and Yushin Okami, it was truly amazing what he pulled off.
Check out his fight vs Chuck Liddell, granted a washed up one, Chuck brought it that night... and Rich BROKE HIS ARM, still managed to get the KO with his other arm.
Check out his rematch vs Anderson Silva, a man who he got thoroughly dominated by in fight 1, then it fight 2, took it to him all of round 1, winning the round until he got dropped by a quick accurate right hand of Anderson. Rich's corner literally carried him to his stool. And what did Rich do at the start of round 2... he went for broke, went on the attack again... then took the 2nd worst beating of his life lol... that was probably the most courageous thing I have seen in the UFC. Exactly what your typical tomato can would do, right?
Rich was a top 5 pound for pound fighter even after his lost to Anderson, but everyone of course forgot that, and then he got a little older too, but geez, what do you want the man to do. 5 fights vs world champs in a row, most of them competitive entertaining fights. Answers the bell whenever the UFC has asked, and is a lock as a future Hall of Famer....
Perfect description of a tomato can.
i concede about rich franklin, he's not a can. You have too many valid bulletproof points. I may have been clouded by the fact that rich franklin didn't know how to defend the muay thai clinch with knees owning his ass not once but the same shit the 2nd time. I'm sorry but i just can't get over it 100%. Jacob Volkmann himself has even taken exception to his current haircut which looks like lloyd christmas on strike with barber shops. Rich franklin to me is ok, he did a great job when he covered for ufc on fuel tv a handful of weeks back, but i look back on his career and i'm just not impressed by his performance and i apologize for that. He has been around a very long time and i respect for what he has done but more importantly he stands as a -170 favorite on saturday to beat wanderlei and i feel that is totally fucked up. Wanderlei in brazil in front of the screaming fans of a ppv that might barely get 150,000 buys in the usa/canada meanwhile will prolly get 150 million people watching their hero in brazil on free tv? (i gotta say 1 ppv buy in brazil means 1,000 people are watching that same tv)
Got damnit rich franklin you ought to be that tomato can this weekend, that same can that took the same knees in the muay thai clinch in the 2nd fight vs anderson, why couldn't you defend it? Where was matt hume for you right then and there? Do you realize that cung le took a knee straight to the nose that broke it during wanderlei's last fight? Rich Franklin shall be defeated this weekend while some of us make money and that's the bottom line. Wanderlei's at +150 as of now on 5dimes.
Im afraid you are completely correct about the home cage advantage, more importantly judges. Two ways Rich wins this... and of course Im still obligated to pick him lol after that write up I did.
1) TKO in 1st or 2nd.
2) Wandy gets SOO tired from trying to put on a great show that he wins 2 of first three rounds, but then Rich is much fresher and CLEARLY wins rounds 4 and 5.
I think this fight should be pretty close and entertaining, you can probably guess who I will be rooting for and I really dont blame anyone for laying some cash on Silva.
Good luck to all this weekend.
Any other plays anybody feels very strongly about? And why?
Im afraid you are completely correct about the home cage advantage, more importantly judges. Two ways Rich wins this... and of course Im still obligated to pick him lol after that write up I did.
1) TKO in 1st or 2nd.
2) Wandy gets SOO tired from trying to put on a great show that he wins 2 of first three rounds, but then Rich is much fresher and CLEARLY wins rounds 4 and 5.
I think this fight should be pretty close and entertaining, you can probably guess who I will be rooting for and I really dont blame anyone for laying some cash on Silva.
Good luck to all this weekend.
Any other plays anybody feels very strongly about? And why?
ben rothwell changed because he fixed his diet. can't wait to see his next fight but he seems to get injured too much. he deserves to be in the ufc now plus there aren't that many good heavyweights out there in the open market.
mark hunt is an amazing story still, after all those losses in a row and insisting on finishing his contract instead of getting a lot of money to get bought out.
tom lawlor, bryan caraway, and cb dollaway surprise me they have lasted this long, all 3 of these guys have not improved at all in my opinion.
michael johnson alex caceres to me are both ok now, both have improved and it looks like they can last a long time in the ufc.
matt brown went on to win 5 more fights in a row after stephen thompson here, but i still feel that he is a fraud. i definitely don't think that matt brown is better than the following: thiago alves, martin kampmann, rick story, dong hyun kim, mike pierce, jake ellenberger, and court mcgee. And there's another handful who would be ahead of him like carlos condit, hector lombard, tyronn woodley just to name a few.
who can be added to the list of tomato cans today? i think the japanese fighters as an example that i had mentioned here in 2012 should be excluded now because the ufc needs to keep a lot of fighters from certain countries to have shows for them when it's their turn to fight at home.
ufc still trying to build up womens division too so i think i'll let them slide for now also.
ben rothwell changed because he fixed his diet. can't wait to see his next fight but he seems to get injured too much. he deserves to be in the ufc now plus there aren't that many good heavyweights out there in the open market.
mark hunt is an amazing story still, after all those losses in a row and insisting on finishing his contract instead of getting a lot of money to get bought out.
tom lawlor, bryan caraway, and cb dollaway surprise me they have lasted this long, all 3 of these guys have not improved at all in my opinion.
michael johnson alex caceres to me are both ok now, both have improved and it looks like they can last a long time in the ufc.
matt brown went on to win 5 more fights in a row after stephen thompson here, but i still feel that he is a fraud. i definitely don't think that matt brown is better than the following: thiago alves, martin kampmann, rick story, dong hyun kim, mike pierce, jake ellenberger, and court mcgee. And there's another handful who would be ahead of him like carlos condit, hector lombard, tyronn woodley just to name a few.
who can be added to the list of tomato cans today? i think the japanese fighters as an example that i had mentioned here in 2012 should be excluded now because the ufc needs to keep a lot of fighters from certain countries to have shows for them when it's their turn to fight at home.
ufc still trying to build up womens division too so i think i'll let them slide for now also.
Read this earlier, so back to say you were dead on!
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