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    All Forums | General Discussion

    Trump's Casinos: A toxic financial mess and a mockery of good business practices...

    scalabrine
    wallstreetcappers
    ilsp2003
    thecentaur
    BWS77
    ...
    Participants:
    Search
    Views: 983
    Posts: 17
     
    scalabrine
    scalabrine
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    Posted: Jun. 12, 2016 - 8:17 PM ET #1

    We continually hear it: "He's a first-rate businessman who made a lotta money"...

    From his mouth and even more so from his supporters. Perhaps this has to do with the fact they believe they be fed the scraps of his billions. 

    Because if it's not, your just left with a self-contradicting blowhard who "tells it like it is!!" as his supporters continually trumpet.

    So let's look at the casinos for starters. And one question is pertinent: We're they EVER successful?? Well let's examine...

    Trump made money in Atlantic City through two primary means. One was extracting management fees from companies he was involved with, and the other was transferring personal debts to companies he controlled:

    • The pattern started with his very first Atlantic City venture, a partnership with Harrah’s for which he was paid a $24 million construction management fee.
    • Over the years, the Times reports, Trump "collected millions of dollars in salary, bonuses and other payments."
    • In 1993, Trump Plaza casino sold over $100 million in junk bonds and "more than half of the new money went to pay off Mr. Trump’s unrelated personal loans."
    • In 1995, the company staged an IPO and then a week later "the new company began using some of the almost $300 million it had raised to clear Mr. Trump’s personal debts."
    • Trump’s casinos paid $300,000 a year for the right to use Trump’s jet to transport celebrities to gigs.
    • Trump appears to have bilked the shareholders of Trump Casinos and Resorts out of the opportunity to share in a $1 million profit related to the sale of shares in Riviera Hotel and Casino, keeping the money for himself instead.

    What Trump did not do was run successful casinos:

    • "Revenues at other Atlantic City casinos rose 18 percent from 1997 through 2002; Mr. Trump’s fell by 1 percent."
    • Had Mr. Trump’s revenues grown at the rate of other Atlantic City casinos, his company could have made its interest payments and possibly registered a profit.
    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    We continually hear it: "He's a first-rate businessman who made a lotta money"...

    From his mouth and even more so from his supporters. Perhaps this has to do with the fact they believe they be fed the scraps of his billions. 

    Because if it's not, your just left with a self-contradicting blowhard who "tells it like it is!!" as his supporters continually trumpet.

    So let's look at the casinos for starters. And one question is pertinent: We're they EVER successful?? Well let's examine...

    Trump made money in Atlantic City through two primary means. One was extracting management fees from companies he was involved with, and the other was transferring personal debts to companies he controlled:

    • The pattern started with his very first Atlantic City venture, a partnership with Harrah’s for which he was paid a $24 million construction management fee.
    • Over the years, the Times reports, Trump "collected millions of dollars in salary, bonuses and other payments."
    • In 1993, Trump Plaza casino sold over $100 million in junk bonds and "more than half of the new money went to pay off Mr. Trump’s unrelated personal loans."
    • In 1995, the company staged an IPO and then a week later "the new company began using some of the almost $300 million it had raised to clear Mr. Trump’s personal debts."
    • Trump’s casinos paid $300,000 a year for the right to use Trump’s jet to transport celebrities to gigs.
    • Trump appears to have bilked the shareholders of Trump Casinos and Resorts out of the opportunity to share in a $1 million profit related to the sale of shares in Riviera Hotel and Casino, keeping the money for himself instead.

    What Trump did not do was run successful casinos:

    • "Revenues at other Atlantic City casinos rose 18 percent from 1997 through 2002; Mr. Trump’s fell by 1 percent."
    • Had Mr. Trump’s revenues grown at the rate of other Atlantic City casinos, his company could have made its interest payments and possibly registered a profit.
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jun. 12, 2016 - 8:45 PM ET #2

    If you follow the history of those casinos you notice Trump kept owning less and less and less of the business due to the financial issues which include debt restructuring, bankruptcy etc.

    I forget the final ownership percent but I think he was down below 20% after the last round some years ago.

    No question Trump is for sure a plastic image behind a big unknown mess.

    And yes I dont think you will see him admit those bonds were completely junk rated and even at that they were selling at a big discount to their par value..translation the market knew the odds of Trump lasting until the bond redemption date was slim if any.


    Reply
    If you follow the history of those casinos you notice Trump kept owning less and less and less of the business due to the financial issues which include debt restructuring, bankruptcy etc.

    I forget the final ownership percent but I think he was down below 20% after the last round some years ago.

    No question Trump is for sure a plastic image behind a big unknown mess.

    And yes I dont think you will see him admit those bonds were completely junk rated and even at that they were selling at a big discount to their par value..translation the market knew the odds of Trump lasting until the bond redemption date was slim if any.


     
    ilsp2003
    ilsp2003
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    Posted: Jun. 12, 2016 - 8:58 PM ET #3

    Donald Trump 's corporations have filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy 4 times.

    A corporation is a separate legal entity from its shareholders, other owners, board of directors, and CEO. Since it is a separate entity, the corporation files bankruptcy under its own name. In Chapter 11 bankruptcies, the owners’ personal assets are not at risk. The owners’ credit history remains intact.




    Reply
    Donald Trump 's corporations have filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy 4 times.

    A corporation is a separate legal entity from its shareholders, other owners, board of directors, and CEO. Since it is a separate entity, the corporation files bankruptcy under its own name. In Chapter 11 bankruptcies, the owners’ personal assets are not at risk. The owners’ credit history remains intact.




     
    ilsp2003
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    Posted: Jun. 12, 2016 - 9:00 PM ET #4

    1991  Trump's Taj Mahal located in Atlantic City 
    1992 Trump Plaza Hotel in Atlantic City
    2004 Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts
    2009 Trump Entertainment Resorts

    Trump University 
    Trump Water

    Trump Steak

    Reply
    1991  Trump's Taj Mahal located in Atlantic City 
    1992 Trump Plaza Hotel in Atlantic City
    2004 Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts
    2009 Trump Entertainment Resorts

    Trump University 
    Trump Water

    Trump Steak

     
    thecentaur
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    Posted: Jun. 12, 2016 - 9:15 PM ET #5

    I love this thread

    Scal Sharpie, Wallstreetcrapper, and lisp2003 all together in one thread 

    It's like observing an aquarium full of mutated fish swim around and bump into each other

    Please continue...
    Reply
    I love this thread

    Scal Sharpie, Wallstreetcrapper, and lisp2003 all together in one thread 

    It's like observing an aquarium full of mutated fish swim around and bump into each other

    Please continue...
     
    BWS77
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    Posted: Jun. 12, 2016 - 9:25 PM ET #6

    But Scal, he gonna make 'Murica great again!!!!





    Don't forget about his other failures such as:

    Trump Steaks...  only $1,000 for 24 burgers and 16 steaks

    GoTrump.com...  Didn't use it?  Well, it was only around for 1 year

    Trump Airlines...  who wouldn't want to fly on a plane with maple-wood veneer floors, chrome seat belt latches and gold-colored bathroom fixtures?  Not many people I guess

    Trump Vodka...  How many T & T's (Trump & Tonic) did you guys drink?

    Trump Mortgage...  2006 was a great time to start a mortgage company, although Donald would be thinking the same 18 month later.

    Trump: The Game...   Remember sitting around with your friends back in 1989 playing this?  Neither does anyone else

    Trump Magazine...  People don't want to read ads about buying yachts and other rich guy stuff during a major recession?  Who knew?

    Trump University...  $35,000 for a fake business degree!

    Trump Ice...  Bottled water with Trumps face on the bottle!  

    New Jersey Generals...  Team folded after 2 years of Trumps leadership and he is also blamed by some for the USFL folding.

    Tour de Trump...   Bike race dubbed by Trump as "The American Tour de France"... he likely lost interest after it was won by a Mexican.

    Trump on the Ocean...   80,000 sq ft Catering hall dubbed "the finest dining and banquet facility in the world" was built in a flood zone after much opposition from the community.   Received a mercy kill by Hurricane Sandy.

    Trump Network...  Pyramid scheme involving vitamins.   https://web.archive.org/web/20110722042048/http:/idealhealth.com/Custom-Multivitamin/PrivaTest.aspx?

    Trumped!...   Trump's own talk radio show, "the biggest launch in radio history".   Remains a mystery as no one can find any of the programs... I wonder why?






    Reply
    But Scal, he gonna make 'Murica great again!!!!





    Don't forget about his other failures such as:

    Trump Steaks...  only $1,000 for 24 burgers and 16 steaks

    GoTrump.com...  Didn't use it?  Well, it was only around for 1 year

    Trump Airlines...  who wouldn't want to fly on a plane with maple-wood veneer floors, chrome seat belt latches and gold-colored bathroom fixtures?  Not many people I guess

    Trump Vodka...  How many T & T's (Trump & Tonic) did you guys drink?

    Trump Mortgage...  2006 was a great time to start a mortgage company, although Donald would be thinking the same 18 month later.

    Trump: The Game...   Remember sitting around with your friends back in 1989 playing this?  Neither does anyone else

    Trump Magazine...  People don't want to read ads about buying yachts and other rich guy stuff during a major recession?  Who knew?

    Trump University...  $35,000 for a fake business degree!

    Trump Ice...  Bottled water with Trumps face on the bottle!  

    New Jersey Generals...  Team folded after 2 years of Trumps leadership and he is also blamed by some for the USFL folding.

    Tour de Trump...   Bike race dubbed by Trump as "The American Tour de France"... he likely lost interest after it was won by a Mexican.

    Trump on the Ocean...   80,000 sq ft Catering hall dubbed "the finest dining and banquet facility in the world" was built in a flood zone after much opposition from the community.   Received a mercy kill by Hurricane Sandy.

    Trump Network...  Pyramid scheme involving vitamins.   https://web.archive.org/web/20110722042048/http:/idealhealth.com/Custom-Multivitamin/PrivaTest.aspx?

    Trumped!...   Trump's own talk radio show, "the biggest launch in radio history".   Remains a mystery as no one can find any of the programs... I wonder why?






     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jun. 12, 2016 - 9:27 PM ET #7

    Quote Originally Posted by thecentaur:

    I love this thread

    Scal Sharpie, Wallstreetcrapper, and lisp2003 all together in one thread 

    It's like observing an aquarium full of mutated fish swim around and bump into each other

    Please continue...

    So refute what I said. What I said is 100% fact, his equity ownership percentage declined and declined and declined. What is the problem with stating that the guy is full of hot air and marketing fluff?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Entertainment_Resorts
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by thecentaur:

    I love this thread

    Scal Sharpie, Wallstreetcrapper, and lisp2003 all together in one thread 

    It's like observing an aquarium full of mutated fish swim around and bump into each other

    Please continue...

    So refute what I said. What I said is 100% fact, his equity ownership percentage declined and declined and declined. What is the problem with stating that the guy is full of hot air and marketing fluff?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Entertainment_Resorts
     
    thecentaur
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    Posted: Jun. 12, 2016 - 9:33 PM ET #8

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


    So refute what I said. What I said is 100% fact, his equity ownership percentage declined and declined and declined. What is the problem with stating that the guy is full of hot air and marketing fluff?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Entertainment_Resorts
    Yeah he has failed at things he has tried and used the system to his advantage.  Should I list his successes? You know there are those too.

    "Well crap that didn't work out!"...said every investor/entrepreneur at one time or another.

    With these career politicians Hillary they screw up constantly but do it spending our money and answer to no one
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


    So refute what I said. What I said is 100% fact, his equity ownership percentage declined and declined and declined. What is the problem with stating that the guy is full of hot air and marketing fluff?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Entertainment_Resorts
    Yeah he has failed at things he has tried and used the system to his advantage.  Should I list his successes? You know there are those too.

    "Well crap that didn't work out!"...said every investor/entrepreneur at one time or another.

    With these career politicians Hillary they screw up constantly but do it spending our money and answer to no one
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jun. 12, 2016 - 10:52 PM ET #9

    thecentaur,

    READ the info in that link I posted...

    Reply
    thecentaur,

    READ the info in that link I posted...

     
    kjrpat1
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    Posted: Jun. 13, 2016 - 8:23 PM ET #10

    I think OP is very very upset Obama only has a few months left in office and as a "lame duck"
    Reply
    I think OP is very very upset Obama only has a few months left in office and as a "lame duck"
     
    searchwarrant
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    Posted: Jun. 13, 2016 - 11:49 PM ET #11

    this is an official "get boxed" thread gentlemen. 
    Careful. 
    Move along.....
    Reply
    this is an official "get boxed" thread gentlemen. 
    Careful. 
    Move along.....
     
    scalabrine
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    Posted: Jun. 14, 2016 - 9:56 AM ET #12

    Wall, you can't say anything critical of Trump without GOP acolytes bringing up Obama or Hillary.

    It happens every single time regardless of criticism! As though if this were a legitimate debate in an open forum, his counterpoints would even be remotely recognized! 

    (And I love the "Well every businessman has failed" line. Look at BWS's post. Every businessman doesn't run for president nor do they run scam for-profit business).

    Kj - Why would I care? The Dems will continue to hold the presidency. Just asked Vegas and the odds they have listed and some very smart bettors here on this site.



    Reply
    Wall, you can't say anything critical of Trump without GOP acolytes bringing up Obama or Hillary.

    It happens every single time regardless of criticism! As though if this were a legitimate debate in an open forum, his counterpoints would even be remotely recognized! 

    (And I love the "Well every businessman has failed" line. Look at BWS's post. Every businessman doesn't run for president nor do they run scam for-profit business).

    Kj - Why would I care? The Dems will continue to hold the presidency. Just asked Vegas and the odds they have listed and some very smart bettors here on this site.



     
    DogbiteWilliams
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    Posted: Jul. 8, 2016 - 7:42 PM ET #13

    Trump claims to worth $10 billion.  Over the long term, a reasonable rate of return on investment for real estate developers has been around 10%.

    Trump, if he were actually a shrewd businessman and worth $10 billion, should be making around $1 billion per year. However, he has repeatedly claimed a tax credit for earning less than $500,000 - i.e., his actual income falls at least 95% short of what it should be.  No wonder that blowhard refuses to release his tax returns.

    https://thehill.com/policy/finance/domestic-taxes/282345-trump-again-received-tax-credit-for-those-making-under-500k

    He is either a lying sack of shxt or an abject failure.  I say both.
    Reply
    Trump claims to worth $10 billion.  Over the long term, a reasonable rate of return on investment for real estate developers has been around 10%.

    Trump, if he were actually a shrewd businessman and worth $10 billion, should be making around $1 billion per year. However, he has repeatedly claimed a tax credit for earning less than $500,000 - i.e., his actual income falls at least 95% short of what it should be.  No wonder that blowhard refuses to release his tax returns.

    https://thehill.com/policy/finance/domestic-taxes/282345-trump-again-received-tax-credit-for-those-making-under-500k

    He is either a lying sack of shxt or an abject failure.  I say both.
     
    LeRinkRat
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    Posted: Jul. 9, 2016 - 2:29 AM ET #14

    Trump Airlines...  who wouldn't want to fly on a plane with maple-wood veneer floors, chrome seat belt latches and gold-colored bathroom fixtures?  Not many people I guess

    actually it was Trump Shuttle which he bought from Eastern Airlines as they were going under. it was one of the FEW Eastern operations that was STILL making money at the end BUT it LOST money for Trump . US Air bought the company mostly for the routes, landing slots and gates @ Washington National, NY LaGuardia and Boston Logan airports which bailed Trump out. first thing they did was get rid of the old "oil burner" 727 fleet and went with Airbus A320's.

    airline analysts on Wall Street stated when the Trump Shuttle was losing money, after it PRINTED money for YEARS for Eastern, that "IF you can NOT make money with the Shuttle, THEN you should NOT be allowed to run ANY airline operation"
    Reply
    Trump Airlines...  who wouldn't want to fly on a plane with maple-wood veneer floors, chrome seat belt latches and gold-colored bathroom fixtures?  Not many people I guess

    actually it was Trump Shuttle which he bought from Eastern Airlines as they were going under. it was one of the FEW Eastern operations that was STILL making money at the end BUT it LOST money for Trump . US Air bought the company mostly for the routes, landing slots and gates @ Washington National, NY LaGuardia and Boston Logan airports which bailed Trump out. first thing they did was get rid of the old "oil burner" 727 fleet and went with Airbus A320's.

    airline analysts on Wall Street stated when the Trump Shuttle was losing money, after it PRINTED money for YEARS for Eastern, that "IF you can NOT make money with the Shuttle, THEN you should NOT be allowed to run ANY airline operation"
     
    James T
    James T
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2002
    Posts: 91
    Posted: Jul. 9, 2016 - 11:13 AM ET #15

    trump starts 500 companies and 4 go bankrupt.


    carry on.
    Reply
    trump starts 500 companies and 4 go bankrupt.


    carry on.
     
    Ganda
    Ganda
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: May, 2011
    Posts: 46891
    Posted: Jul. 9, 2016 - 11:18 AM ET #16

    Quote Originally Posted by thecentaur:

    I love this thread

    Scal Sharpie, Wallstreetcrapper, and lisp2003 all together in one thread 

    It's like observing an aquarium full of mutated fish swim around and bump into each other

    Please continue...

    CPL XIX Winner. Punter. Scotch lover. Big Man.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by thecentaur:

    I love this thread

    Scal Sharpie, Wallstreetcrapper, and lisp2003 all together in one thread 

    It's like observing an aquarium full of mutated fish swim around and bump into each other

    Please continue...

     
     
    666LES
    666LES
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2006
    Posts: 4321
    Posted: Jul. 9, 2016 - 11:34 AM ET #17

    In the 90's,if you didn't go bankrupt or you weren't arrested,you weren't trying.
    Reply
    In the 90's,if you didn't go bankrupt or you weren't arrested,you weren't trying.
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