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The state vig - why leave your local or offshore book?

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Goggles-Pisano

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Posted: May. 14, 2018 - 7:33 PM ET #1

Seriously, a 10.5 - 14.5% N J state vig on top of........ the vig?

Under a bill in the state Legislature, New Jersey would impose an 8 percent tax from wagers placed on sports betting and a 12.5 percent tax on revenue from online sports betting.

Plus, casinos and tracks would have to pay an "integrity fee" each year — which equates to either $7.5 million or 2.5 percent of their sports betting revenue, whichever is less. That money would fund law enforcement investigations into whether the games are above board.

thirdperson

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Posted: May. 14, 2018 - 9:24 PM ET #2

Governments are greedy and would only allow legalized gambling if they can benefit from it. To maximize revenue, governments need gamblers to spend and lose as much as possible. Still, gamblers are better off with more competition and regulation in gambling industry.

Goggles-Pisano

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Posted: May. 15, 2018 - 7:37 AM ET #3

Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

Governments are greedy and would only allow legalized gambling if they can benefit from it. To maximize revenue, governments need gamblers to spend and lose as much as possible. Still, gamblers are better off with more competition and regulation in gambling industry.

Goverments do not care who will win or loose. The Government vig "tax" is paid upfront on every bet. Betting palors want gamblers to loose but not all the time because they too, have a vig.

VGPOP

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Posted: May. 15, 2018 - 7:50 AM ET #4

I personally don't mind. I had to fly several times per year to Vegas to invest heavy in some of the games. The flight + hotel accommodation was taking a toll on me. It is an "expense" and I would deduct it from my winnings, but I live in Florida (where there is no legislation yet for sports betting), flying to Atlantic City + hotels there I would be saving 60 to 70% in this expense. Flight obviously way cheaper.

I don't mind paying 8% tax at the window when I am saving this much money in the first place by switching cities.

I will miss the giant screens at Westgate and the atmosphere. But this change needs to be made for me personally.

This is until Florida decides to get in the game.

thorpe

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Posted: May. 15, 2018 - 8:08 AM ET #5

I've been saying this for years. Who cares if it is legal if the juice is -140???

Goggles-Pisano

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Posted: May. 15, 2018 - 8:08 AM ET #6

Quote Originally Posted by VGPOP:

I don't mind paying 8% tax at the window when I am saving this much money in the first place by switching cities.

I will miss the giant screens at Westgate and the atmosphere. But this change needs to be made for me personally.

This is until Florida decides to get in the game.

Spirit into AC is definately less than Vegas. Checkout weekend hotel prices in AC b4 you go. The hotel rates are insanely high! Don't even think about staying at a non casino rat invested crack house hotel. Some of the casino hotel are pretty dangerous.

You're probably better off going to Vegas.

Goggles-Pisano

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Posted: May. 15, 2018 - 8:10 AM ET #7

Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:

I've been saying this for years. Who cares if it is legal if the juice is -140???

What win rate do you need just to break even?

VGPOP

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Posted: May. 15, 2018 - 8:23 AM ET #8

Quote Originally Posted by Goggles-Pisano:

Quote Originally Posted by VGPOP:

I personally don't mind. I had to fly several times per year to Vegas to invest heavy in some of the games. The flight + hotel accommodation was taking a toll on me. It is an "expense" and I would deduct it from my winnings, but I live in Florida (where there is no legislation yet for sports betting), flying to Atlantic City + hotels there I would be saving 60 to 70% in this expense. Flight obviously way cheaper.I don't mind paying 8% tax at the window when I am saving this much money in the first place by switching cities.I will miss the giant screens at Westgate and the atmosphere. But this change needs to be made for me personally.This is until Florida decides to get in the game.

I will check that. I always stay at the same casino hotel. I never go out.

thorpe

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Posted: May. 15, 2018 - 8:33 AM ET #9

Quote Originally Posted by Goggles-Pisano:

Posted: 21 minutes ago "Quote" Quote Originally Posted by thorpe: I've been saying this for years. Who cares if it is legal if the juice is -140??? What win rate do you need just to break even?

-105 = 51.22%

-110 = 52.38%

-115 = 53.49%

-120 = 54.55%

-125 = 55.56%

-130 = 56.52%

-135 = 57.45%

-140 = 58.33%

-145 = 59.18%

-150 = 60.00%

josbran

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Posts: 1992

Posted: May. 15, 2018 - 8:40 AM ET #10

Quote Originally Posted by Goggles-Pisano:

Seriously, a 10.5 - 14.5% N J state vig on top of........ the vig?Under a bill in the state Legislature, New Jersey would impose an 8 percent tax from wagers placed on sports betting and a 12.5 percent tax on revenue from online sports betting. Plus, casinos and tracks would have to pay an "integrity fee" each year — which equates to either $7.5 million or 2.5 percent of their sports betting revenue, whichever is less. That money would fund law enforcement investigations into whether the games are above board.

The Offshore books will be history once the betting becomes legal nationwide. No more worries about will I get paid if I win big or have trouble funding my account. The Tax you talk about will not affect the bettor the companies will pay the tax out of their profits.

josbran

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Posted: May. 15, 2018 - 8:46 AM ET #11

Forget the integrity fee not state will be bullied into paying that fee

Goggles-Pisano

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Posted: May. 15, 2018 - 9:36 AM ET #12

Quote Originally Posted by josbran:

The Offshore books will be history once the betting becomes legal nationwide. No more worries about will I get paid if I win big or have trouble funding my account. The Tax you talk about will not affect the bettor the companies will pay the tax out of their profits.

That's an interesting concept not passing cost to the retail customer. Never seen that type of Business Model before, any similar models come to mind? You're saying the books make so much money they basically are negative vig on a stanard -110 wager assuming a 10.5 - 14.5 tax.

Not a chance. Maybe the 2.5% they eat because that could be less based upon volume but not the 8 -12% on every wager. It's actually more than that to the retail customer because the tax is on the actual wager which includes the books vig. Using the standard book vig of -110 the $100 you're trying to win just cost you $118.80 or $123.20 online instead of $110.00. You instantly need to have a better win rate.

jamesxnj

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Posted: May. 15, 2018 - 12:47 PM ET #13

What is your best guess to what happens in this scenario.

I place a bet on Green Bay home against the Bears say -6 $110 to make a $100 opening day of the NFL

I know what will happen in Vegas but what will happen at the Borgata/Monmouth Park Will Hill sportsbooks in NJ?

Will the -110 stand and be taxed on the payout?

I really hope NJ does not F this up as this is a golden egg for AC.

sports_Network

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Posted: May. 15, 2018 - 1:11 PM ET #14

your not taxed on a payout...at least not in Vegas, which has no taxation, since it's a state to state decision, each state will do as it pleases, there is no federal regulations, only that it is now legal to bet on sports, by state statue..

vanzack

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Posted: May. 15, 2018 - 1:46 PM ET #15

All of the taxes you talk about are on the book, not the bettor.

The book will absorb these costs.

Will they be able to absorb them and still give -110? From everything I know, the answer is yes. But under no circumstances are you - the bettor - going to have to pay a tax just to place a bet.

Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.

thorpe

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Posted: May. 15, 2018 - 3:07 PM ET #16

Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

Posted: an hour ago "Quote" All of the taxes you talk about are on the book, not the bettor. The book will absorb these costs. Will they be able to absorb them and still give -110? From everything I know, the answer is yes. But under no circumstances are you - the bettor - going to have to pay a tax just to place a bet.

The 8 percent tax isn't on the total amount wagered. It is on the amount wagered minus the amount paid out as winners. That was my confusion earlier. So they can probably absorb this tax and still pay -110.

There is going to be so much New York homer money wagered, it might be profitable to bet against NY teams blindly the next few years.

666LES

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Posted: May. 15, 2018 - 3:52 PM ET #17

Sportbooks in Nevada average approx. a 5% Hold.(After all the costs/payments/labor are added up there is a Profit of approx. 5% of All monies wagered) This does not include any "integrity" fee to any Sport League and is based on a standard Vig of 11/10. This is a Pretty Small Pie to be sliced up and isn't exactly a Cash Cow.

I am not sure if the Pols know to what extent they are entering a Brave New World but just for an example,A pack of Cigarettes in New York City costs $13.50 each.These people are rarely balanced in their expections.

iceman67

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Posts: 3253

Posted: May. 15, 2018 - 6:35 PM ET #18

Quote Originally Posted by 666LES:

,A pack of Cigarettes in New York City costs $13.50 each.

$13.50!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus titts, No wonder there's an opiate epidemic taking over.

gold6185

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Posts: 1168

Posted: May. 16, 2018 - 8:45 AM ET #19

Quote Originally Posted by Goggles-Pisano:

Seriously, a 10.5 - 14.5% N J state vig on top of........ the vig?

Under a bill in the state Legislature, New Jersey would impose an 8 percent tax from wagers placed on sports betting and a 12.5 percent tax on revenue from online sports betting.

Place your bets in a different State with a lower Vig. Stay out of New Jersey.

nature1970

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Posts: 21593

Posted: May. 30, 2018 - 8:19 PM ET #20

Maybe some of us good old boys are tired of chasing to collect a bet. If we lose we pay if we win yah right.... at least borgata or Harris or golden nugget have enough cake to cover when we jaw public actually get it right....