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    All Forums | General Discussion

    June 6th 1944

    Box and one
    sportschat
    bluecompass
    UNIMAN
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    Box and one
    Box and one
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    Posted: Jun. 6, 2023 - 9:38 PM ET #1

    It is June 5th the day before. My father is an AMG officer in General Clarkes 5th Army that just entered Rome as the Germans retreated the city. Clark is the 1st conquering leader to capture Rome since Attila the Hun . He was given orders by Eisenhower not to capture Rome but surround the German Army retreating. He disobeyed Eisenhowser and entered Rome and liberated it with no fighting. My father was near Naples when Clark organized his entry into Rome. Jeeps Tanks, trucks and the entire 5th Army was going to parade into Rome with the Italians cheering them on. My father was driving a jeep way back in the parade. In Clarks jeep there was an italian dignitary riding along to direct them to the Victor Emanuel monument where the Mayir of Rome was going to surrender the key to the city. Only one problem.. The guy in Clarks jeep wasn't from Rome and the entire parade was going the wrong way in downtown Rome. I guess someone in caravan got word up to Clark they were going in the wrong direction . Finally a bystander guy on a bicycle watching the parade led the entire parade on the right streets to the Victor Emamual Monument I remember my father telling me that story and then a few years ago in Rick Atkinsons best seller about the Italian Campaign he retells that same story.
    Anyway my father is staying at the Nord Roma Hotel near the train station that night. Rome has been liberated The next morning or early afternoon my father is drinking an expresso coffee at the hotel bar and hears that Allied forces have landed in France and the Germans are retreating. Its now June 6th 1944 Studs Turkel the great american writer says about Clark " Front pages for a day back pages for a life time. " Some how the capture of Rome wasn't big news but the Normandy landings was.
    My father never left Rome as the Germans retreated and his position at AMG [ allied military goverment } changed He became part of an American investigating committee on the massacre of 300 Italians at the andreatine caves that Hitler had ordered before the capture of Rome . When Germany finally surrendered he stayed in Rome and became part of an allied educational committee to change Italian text books getting rid of facism . He stayed in Italy for about 5 -6 months after the war in Europe was over. Then he came back to the Bronx and got his teaching job back at Teddy Roosevelt HS but something called the United Nations was forming in NY after 1 year in San Fran Then he worked for the United nations the next 35 years Crazy life . He retired at the UN and New York State gave him his teaching license dated 1936 He substituted teaching at Oradell new jersey until at 89 had a stroke and passed away Its fathers day this week and I had the greatest. I touch his Yankee baseball hat and his Manhattan College ring everyday.. I tell basketball stories a lot your stories were so much better and you saw so much more Happy fathers day to you up there in those clouds and I know Mom is cooking you a big spaghetti dinner up there

    box and one
    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    It is June 5th the day before. My father is an AMG officer in General Clarkes 5th Army that just entered Rome as the Germans retreated the city. Clark is the 1st conquering leader to capture Rome since Attila the Hun . He was given orders by Eisenhower not to capture Rome but surround the German Army retreating. He disobeyed Eisenhowser and entered Rome and liberated it with no fighting. My father was near Naples when Clark organized his entry into Rome. Jeeps Tanks, trucks and the entire 5th Army was going to parade into Rome with the Italians cheering them on. My father was driving a jeep way back in the parade. In Clarks jeep there was an italian dignitary riding along to direct them to the Victor Emanuel monument where the Mayir of Rome was going to surrender the key to the city. Only one problem.. The guy in Clarks jeep wasn't from Rome and the entire parade was going the wrong way in downtown Rome. I guess someone in caravan got word up to Clark they were going in the wrong direction . Finally a bystander guy on a bicycle watching the parade led the entire parade on the right streets to the Victor Emamual Monument I remember my father telling me that story and then a few years ago in Rick Atkinsons best seller about the Italian Campaign he retells that same story.
    Anyway my father is staying at the Nord Roma Hotel near the train station that night. Rome has been liberated The next morning or early afternoon my father is drinking an expresso coffee at the hotel bar and hears that Allied forces have landed in France and the Germans are retreating. Its now June 6th 1944 Studs Turkel the great american writer says about Clark " Front pages for a day back pages for a life time. " Some how the capture of Rome wasn't big news but the Normandy landings was.
    My father never left Rome as the Germans retreated and his position at AMG [ allied military goverment } changed He became part of an American investigating committee on the massacre of 300 Italians at the andreatine caves that Hitler had ordered before the capture of Rome . When Germany finally surrendered he stayed in Rome and became part of an allied educational committee to change Italian text books getting rid of facism . He stayed in Italy for about 5 -6 months after the war in Europe was over. Then he came back to the Bronx and got his teaching job back at Teddy Roosevelt HS but something called the United Nations was forming in NY after 1 year in San Fran Then he worked for the United nations the next 35 years Crazy life . He retired at the UN and New York State gave him his teaching license dated 1936 He substituted teaching at Oradell new jersey until at 89 had a stroke and passed away Its fathers day this week and I had the greatest. I touch his Yankee baseball hat and his Manhattan College ring everyday.. I tell basketball stories a lot your stories were so much better and you saw so much more Happy fathers day to you up there in those clouds and I know Mom is cooking you a big spaghetti dinner up there

     
    sportschat
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    Posted: Jun. 6, 2023 - 11:06 PM ET #2

    @Box and one

     God bless your dad and thanks to all the men who landed on the beaches knowing full well they were likely not going to make it an_cry

    Reply

    @Box and one

     God bless your dad and thanks to all the men who landed on the beaches knowing full well they were likely not going to make it an_cry

     
    Box and one
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    Posted: Jun. 7, 2023 - 12:27 AM ET #3

    thanks sportchat Its funny because I always asked him if he ever fired his pistol or shot somebody  He laughed and said in basic training in New Jersey he did but never in Italy.  He saw the devastation and I loved hearing his stories . He was assigned to AMG which stands for Allied Military Goverment. As the Germans retreated town after town in Italy he with his unit established law and order in every Italian city the Germans had controlled  He would arrest the facist and collaborators in each town, call for the Priest to see who sides the townspeople were on. Everyone pretended to be happy  the Americans arrived. He would provide trucks of flour so the bakeries could start baking and making spaghetti and bread. One of the AMG officers was John Hersey who wrote the romantic Pulitzer prize book " A Bell for Adano"  My father didn't know Hersey personally but he was one of the many AMG officers who served in the 5th Army. My father said half  the book was true but Hersey made it into a romantic story and they made a movie about the book. I have a picture of the entire AMG unit in front of the Vatican in june of '44 They took a team picture in the basilica.. AMG also consisted of English Canadians and Australians officers.  Many of the US AMG's officers were of Italian heritage but my father being an Italian teacher in NYC spoke it better then most Italians because he had no dialect .    Like my cousins from Italy said years later " your father spoke like a professor.. and I learned my Italian from my mother who was Calabrze and they had the worst dialect..   

    box and one
    Reply

    thanks sportchat Its funny because I always asked him if he ever fired his pistol or shot somebody  He laughed and said in basic training in New Jersey he did but never in Italy.  He saw the devastation and I loved hearing his stories . He was assigned to AMG which stands for Allied Military Goverment. As the Germans retreated town after town in Italy he with his unit established law and order in every Italian city the Germans had controlled  He would arrest the facist and collaborators in each town, call for the Priest to see who sides the townspeople were on. Everyone pretended to be happy  the Americans arrived. He would provide trucks of flour so the bakeries could start baking and making spaghetti and bread. One of the AMG officers was John Hersey who wrote the romantic Pulitzer prize book " A Bell for Adano"  My father didn't know Hersey personally but he was one of the many AMG officers who served in the 5th Army. My father said half  the book was true but Hersey made it into a romantic story and they made a movie about the book. I have a picture of the entire AMG unit in front of the Vatican in june of '44 They took a team picture in the basilica.. AMG also consisted of English Canadians and Australians officers.  Many of the US AMG's officers were of Italian heritage but my father being an Italian teacher in NYC spoke it better then most Italians because he had no dialect .    Like my cousins from Italy said years later " your father spoke like a professor.. and I learned my Italian from my mother who was Calabrze and they had the worst dialect..   

     
    Box and one
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    Posted: Jun. 7, 2023 - 11:19 AM ET #4

    Correction John Hersey was not an officer in the AMG but a writer who shawdowed an officer from AMG during the Italian campaign . He then wrote the book " A bell for Adano" from his findings  My father knew the officer that Hersey had shawdowed but not Hersey himself. I also remember that my fathers unit had medical staff with him because diphtheria was there Also he had about 10 gallons of white paint because Mussolini had facist graffiti sayings all over the water towers and walls in the villages. Mussolini's favorite saying was : live one day as a lion and 100 years a lamb" . As soon as the AMG units came in he had a few painters cover every Mussolini propaganda  messages all over the town .He had local Italian villagers paint over the messages. Many of the Italian collaborators that had helped the Germans during their occupation where asked to come forward and admit there guilt. Many of them that committed serious crimes  had left the city and retreated with the Germans  ..some of the Italian partisans wanted to hang those that had helped the occupied German  forces.  My father and his AMG unit were the law and order of that town or city and only arrested them but had to protect them. In the book and movie " The Secret of Santa Victorria" was about a town that hid its wine from the Germans during there occupation . In Hersey's book although his main character was a major who like my father was of Italian- American many of the facts were real. Sorry for this long and boring story but with Fathers day this week my memories come back to me. hope everyone has a nice fathers day weekend .   

    box and one
    Reply

    Correction John Hersey was not an officer in the AMG but a writer who shawdowed an officer from AMG during the Italian campaign . He then wrote the book " A bell for Adano" from his findings  My father knew the officer that Hersey had shawdowed but not Hersey himself. I also remember that my fathers unit had medical staff with him because diphtheria was there Also he had about 10 gallons of white paint because Mussolini had facist graffiti sayings all over the water towers and walls in the villages. Mussolini's favorite saying was : live one day as a lion and 100 years a lamb" . As soon as the AMG units came in he had a few painters cover every Mussolini propaganda  messages all over the town .He had local Italian villagers paint over the messages. Many of the Italian collaborators that had helped the Germans during their occupation where asked to come forward and admit there guilt. Many of them that committed serious crimes  had left the city and retreated with the Germans  ..some of the Italian partisans wanted to hang those that had helped the occupied German  forces.  My father and his AMG unit were the law and order of that town or city and only arrested them but had to protect them. In the book and movie " The Secret of Santa Victorria" was about a town that hid its wine from the Germans during there occupation . In Hersey's book although his main character was a major who like my father was of Italian- American many of the facts were real. Sorry for this long and boring story but with Fathers day this week my memories come back to me. hope everyone has a nice fathers day weekend .   

     
    bluecompass
    bluecompass
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    Posted: Jun. 7, 2023 - 5:45 PM ET #5

    @Box and one

     Just wanted to say that I really enjoy reading your posts about this stuff.

    God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy.
    Reply

    @Box and one

     Just wanted to say that I really enjoy reading your posts about this stuff.

     
    Box and one
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    Posted: Jun. 7, 2023 - 11:22 PM ET #6

    thanks bluecompass 

    box and one
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    thanks bluecompass 

     
     
    UNIMAN
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    Posted: Jun. 7, 2023 - 11:41 PM ET #7

    Nice thread! My father, now passed, also was in Italy late in the war. Most of his stories were told late in life. He never talked about it when I was young.

    For a young country boy the war was obviously a shock for him. Believe he was 17.

    Reply

    Nice thread! My father, now passed, also was in Italy late in the war. Most of his stories were told late in life. He never talked about it when I was young.

    For a young country boy the war was obviously a shock for him. Believe he was 17.

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