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    All Forums | General Discussion

    If Hamas just stopped firing rockets, Israel would leave them alone.

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    wallstreetcappers
    canovsp
    Raiders22
    kaponofor3
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    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jul. 23, 2014 - 12:58 PM ET #51

    Well the only problem with that way of thinking (blanket hate) is the numbers are always wrong. 

    It is similar to how other countries blanket conclude wrong things about US citizens and this country.

    The number of extremists in that area are not what people here think, nor do most people know the number of deaths on BOTH sides, we just get the headline "terrorists, extremists, Hamas" blah blah blah..

    I personally do not really watch the media much..I dont find value in watching news tv or browsing headline news..but even with what I do observe I dont recall the last time I heard anything anti-Israel but I do recall hearing and seeing more about Hamas and terrorists against Israel.

    The media does have an Israel bias, last time I checked there are more Israeli owners and upper management of media companies than from Palestinian descent.

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    Well the only problem with that way of thinking (blanket hate) is the numbers are always wrong. 

    It is similar to how other countries blanket conclude wrong things about US citizens and this country.

    The number of extremists in that area are not what people here think, nor do most people know the number of deaths on BOTH sides, we just get the headline "terrorists, extremists, Hamas" blah blah blah..

    I personally do not really watch the media much..I dont find value in watching news tv or browsing headline news..but even with what I do observe I dont recall the last time I heard anything anti-Israel but I do recall hearing and seeing more about Hamas and terrorists against Israel.

    The media does have an Israel bias, last time I checked there are more Israeli owners and upper management of media companies than from Palestinian descent.

     
    canovsp
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    Posted: Jul. 23, 2014 - 5:17 PM ET #52

    Wally. Were you in this group?

    https://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/dan-joseph/video-anti-israel-protesters-usa-biggest-terrorist-organization
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    Wally. Were you in this group?

    https://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/dan-joseph/video-anti-israel-protesters-usa-biggest-terrorist-organization
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jul. 23, 2014 - 6:07 PM ET #53

    Quote Originally Posted by canovsp:

    Wally. Were you in this group?

    https://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/dan-joseph/video-anti-israel-protesters-usa-biggest-terrorist-organization

    Well at least you are consistent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by canovsp:

    Wally. Were you in this group?

    https://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/dan-joseph/video-anti-israel-protesters-usa-biggest-terrorist-organization

    Well at least you are consistent.

     
    canovsp
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    Posted: Jul. 23, 2014 - 6:21 PM ET #54

    I'll take that as a no.

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    I'll take that as a no.

     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: Jul. 23, 2014 - 6:30 PM ET #55

    Quote Originally Posted by kaponofor3:



    This is both an important inquiry and a dangerous approach at the same time. I firmly believe that you should always strive to understand the rationale and motivations for the actions of others. That gives you depth and perspective. However -- you shouldn't always give deference to the reasons for jihadist anger. Why? They will always find something to be angry about.

    After 9/11, I told myself I was going to learn as much as I could about the Middle East, so I did. Took courses on it, read books, spoke with people who lived there, etc. etc.. The one thing that I am convinced of? Extremism is the problem no matter its stripe, and extremists will always find a pre-textual justification for their rage and condemnation of those who don't follow their extremist dogma.

    Off top of your head---what all did you read?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaponofor3:



    This is both an important inquiry and a dangerous approach at the same time. I firmly believe that you should always strive to understand the rationale and motivations for the actions of others. That gives you depth and perspective. However -- you shouldn't always give deference to the reasons for jihadist anger. Why? They will always find something to be angry about.

    After 9/11, I told myself I was going to learn as much as I could about the Middle East, so I did. Took courses on it, read books, spoke with people who lived there, etc. etc.. The one thing that I am convinced of? Extremism is the problem no matter its stripe, and extremists will always find a pre-textual justification for their rage and condemnation of those who don't follow their extremist dogma.

    Off top of your head---what all did you read?

     
    kaponofor3
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    Posted: Jul. 23, 2014 - 7:18 PM ET #56

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

    Off top of your head---what all did you read?



    Oh man. Lots of different books, far too many to list. One of the better recent ones I read was "The Shia Revival" by Vali Nasr. Very helpful to put into context the rise of the Shia that has taken place on a geopolitical basis basically since the 1979 revolution. I'd highly recommend it to anyone. Very well written and insightful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

    Off top of your head---what all did you read?



    Oh man. Lots of different books, far too many to list. One of the better recent ones I read was "The Shia Revival" by Vali Nasr. Very helpful to put into context the rise of the Shia that has taken place on a geopolitical basis basically since the 1979 revolution. I'd highly recommend it to anyone. Very well written and insightful.

     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: Jul. 23, 2014 - 9:28 PM ET #57

    Quote Originally Posted by kaponofor3:



    Oh man. Lots of different books, far too many to list. One of the better recent ones I read was "The Shia Revival" by Vali Nasr. Very helpful to put into context the rise of the Shia that has taken place on a geopolitical basis basically since the 1979 revolution. I'd highly recommend it to anyone. Very well written and insightful.

    Heard of it---haven't read it--just wondered if you read any from religious perspective or all have been secular-based? A lot of good books on this area but some have a slant to them I have noticed.  Which I guess is okay if you take it in context. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaponofor3:



    Oh man. Lots of different books, far too many to list. One of the better recent ones I read was "The Shia Revival" by Vali Nasr. Very helpful to put into context the rise of the Shia that has taken place on a geopolitical basis basically since the 1979 revolution. I'd highly recommend it to anyone. Very well written and insightful.

    Heard of it---haven't read it--just wondered if you read any from religious perspective or all have been secular-based? A lot of good books on this area but some have a slant to them I have noticed.  Which I guess is okay if you take it in context. 

     
    Rush51
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    Posted: Jul. 23, 2014 - 10:58 PM ET #58

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


    You are looking at the end versus why they got to this point.

    I would think if you asked some non-Israel citizens living there I would also expect they consider Israel tactics to be terroristic. 

    I am more interested in WHY they are so upset, not that they are upset. What caused this to happen? It does not come as inherent that one religious group wants to destroy the other, so what do you think the REASON is they are to this point?

    So someone with non-Israeli biases might give additional insight as to why...To me its the way they both fail to co-exist over centuries is why this keeps going on and on and on. It for sure is not one-sided.

    Wall, I dont' think answering the "Why"  is so difficult.. It's not up to us in the Western World to figure out why radical Islam is so committed to the destruction of the West, as al Queda is, as Hamas is, as Hezbollah is, as Muslim Brotherhood is, etc.  They all speak the same breath as to who the "Zionists" are, that is  Israel, the U.S.,  and any other country that aspires to religious freedoms and tolerance. 

    So, the more important question is "What" do we do about it.  This is a clash of civilizations at its most basic level.  So, how do you stop radicals from firing rockets into neighboring countries, and from flying planes into tall buildings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


    You are looking at the end versus why they got to this point.

    I would think if you asked some non-Israel citizens living there I would also expect they consider Israel tactics to be terroristic. 

    I am more interested in WHY they are so upset, not that they are upset. What caused this to happen? It does not come as inherent that one religious group wants to destroy the other, so what do you think the REASON is they are to this point?

    So someone with non-Israeli biases might give additional insight as to why...To me its the way they both fail to co-exist over centuries is why this keeps going on and on and on. It for sure is not one-sided.

    Wall, I dont' think answering the "Why"  is so difficult.. It's not up to us in the Western World to figure out why radical Islam is so committed to the destruction of the West, as al Queda is, as Hamas is, as Hezbollah is, as Muslim Brotherhood is, etc.  They all speak the same breath as to who the "Zionists" are, that is  Israel, the U.S.,  and any other country that aspires to religious freedoms and tolerance. 

    So, the more important question is "What" do we do about it.  This is a clash of civilizations at its most basic level.  So, how do you stop radicals from firing rockets into neighboring countries, and from flying planes into tall buildings.

     
    kaponofor3
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    Posted: Jul. 24, 2014 - 11:21 AM ET #59

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

    Heard of it---haven't read it--just wondered if you read any from religious perspective or all have been secular-based? A lot of good books on this area but some have a slant to them I have noticed.  Which I guess is okay if you take it in context. 



    Ahhh... I didn't catch that slant in your initial inquiry. Yes, I have read a number that are both religious based and some that are secular based. Both are important pieces to the Middle East puzzle. You should check out that book I referenced earlier. Very easy read and very good historical context it gives for the current rise of the Shia power.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

    Heard of it---haven't read it--just wondered if you read any from religious perspective or all have been secular-based? A lot of good books on this area but some have a slant to them I have noticed.  Which I guess is okay if you take it in context. 



    Ahhh... I didn't catch that slant in your initial inquiry. Yes, I have read a number that are both religious based and some that are secular based. Both are important pieces to the Middle East puzzle. You should check out that book I referenced earlier. Very easy read and very good historical context it gives for the current rise of the Shia power.
     
    SwishSwish1234
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    Posted: Jul. 24, 2014 - 3:02 PM ET #60

    Quote Originally Posted by kaponofor3:



    Ahhh... I didn't catch that slant in your initial inquiry. Yes, I have read a number that are both religious based and some that are secular based. Both are important pieces to the Middle East puzzle. You should check out that book I referenced earlier. Very easy read and very good historical context it gives for the current rise of the Shia power.

    You need to get out a bit more mate. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaponofor3:



    Ahhh... I didn't catch that slant in your initial inquiry. Yes, I have read a number that are both religious based and some that are secular based. Both are important pieces to the Middle East puzzle. You should check out that book I referenced earlier. Very easy read and very good historical context it gives for the current rise of the Shia power.

    You need to get out a bit more mate. 
     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: Jul. 24, 2014 - 3:12 PM ET #61

    Quote Originally Posted by kaponofor3:



    Ahhh... I didn't catch that slant in your initial inquiry. Yes, I have read a number that are both religious based and some that are secular based. Both are important pieces to the Middle East puzzle. You should check out that book I referenced earlier. Very easy read and very good historical context it gives for the current rise of the Shia power.

    Will do.  Agree about Ray Rice thing BTW...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaponofor3:



    Ahhh... I didn't catch that slant in your initial inquiry. Yes, I have read a number that are both religious based and some that are secular based. Both are important pieces to the Middle East puzzle. You should check out that book I referenced earlier. Very easy read and very good historical context it gives for the current rise of the Shia power.

    Will do.  Agree about Ray Rice thing BTW...

     
    kaponofor3
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    Posted: Jul. 24, 2014 - 6:01 PM ET #62

    Quote Originally Posted by SwishSwish1234:


    You need to get out a bit more mate. 


    I don't follow? Is this sarcasm lost in translation?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwishSwish1234:


    You need to get out a bit more mate. 


    I don't follow? Is this sarcasm lost in translation?
     
    SwishSwish1234
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    Posted: Jul. 25, 2014 - 2:20 PM ET #63

    Quote Originally Posted by kaponofor3:



    I don't follow? Is this sarcasm lost in translation?

    If I need to explain that expression to you then you're clearly not the Einstein you walk around covers claiming to be. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaponofor3:



    I don't follow? Is this sarcasm lost in translation?

    If I need to explain that expression to you then you're clearly not the Einstein you walk around covers claiming to be. 
     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: Jul. 25, 2014 - 2:41 PM ET #64

    Quote Originally Posted by SwishSwish1234:


    If I need to explain that expression to you then you're clearly not the Einstein you walk around covers claiming to be. 

    Actually confused me too.  Thought maybe this was old discussion.  You mean he should not stay in and read so much?  Mean he should read something different?  I had no clue what you meant either. Pretty sure the last comment was sarcasm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwishSwish1234:


    If I need to explain that expression to you then you're clearly not the Einstein you walk around covers claiming to be. 

    Actually confused me too.  Thought maybe this was old discussion.  You mean he should not stay in and read so much?  Mean he should read something different?  I had no clue what you meant either. Pretty sure the last comment was sarcasm.

     
    SwishSwish1234
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    Posted: Jul. 25, 2014 - 2:58 PM ET #65

    To be honest, Kapono completely killed the vibe, I was looking for a simple 'Get a life' type of comment, After he had left a message about reading books on the Shia tribe and other nonsense about the Middle East. I assumed he would connect the dots and reply with a simple,  It's what i do pal type of comment but he seemed baffled and puzzled which then led me to respond with a cheeky remark of, For a person who is so book smart you certainly haven't got a grasp on the basics. 

    The reason for the initial comment is why would you want to learn about the filth that is the Middle East? Whether it's the Arab Terror groups or the Israeli government with their 'We are victim's' mentality, It's all a bunch of petty bs, The only explanation for wanting to read and learn about that part of the world is if you're studying it or if you are a Muslim or a person and want to learn why the mess is a mess. Otherwise why waste your time reading about that sh-thole, Go and do more productive and enjoyable things with your life. 
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    To be honest, Kapono completely killed the vibe, I was looking for a simple 'Get a life' type of comment, After he had left a message about reading books on the Shia tribe and other nonsense about the Middle East. I assumed he would connect the dots and reply with a simple,  It's what i do pal type of comment but he seemed baffled and puzzled which then led me to respond with a cheeky remark of, For a person who is so book smart you certainly haven't got a grasp on the basics. 

    The reason for the initial comment is why would you want to learn about the filth that is the Middle East? Whether it's the Arab Terror groups or the Israeli government with their 'We are victim's' mentality, It's all a bunch of petty bs, The only explanation for wanting to read and learn about that part of the world is if you're studying it or if you are a Muslim or a person and want to learn why the mess is a mess. Otherwise why waste your time reading about that sh-thole, Go and do more productive and enjoyable things with your life. 
     
    Raiders22
    Raiders22
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    Posted: Jul. 25, 2014 - 3:28 PM ET #66

    Quote Originally Posted by SwishSwish1234:

    To be honest, Kapono completely killed the vibe, I was looking for a simple 'Get a life' type of comment, After he had left a message about reading books on the Shia tribe and other nonsense about the Middle East. I assumed he would connect the dots and reply with a simple,  It's what i do pal type of comment but he seemed baffled and puzzled which then led me to respond with a cheeky remark of, For a person who is so book smart you certainly haven't got a grasp on the basics. 

    The reason for the initial comment is why would you want to learn about the filth that is the Middle East? Whether it's the Arab Terror groups or the Israeli government with their 'We are victim's' mentality, It's all a bunch of petty bs, The only explanation for wanting to read and learn about that part of the world is if you're studying it or if you are a Muslim or a person and want to learn why the mess is a mess. Otherwise why waste your time reading about that sh-thole, Go and do more productive and enjoyable things with your life. 

    I got your point now.  Sort of agree.  But never a bad thing to try to learn about something from people that are experts on it.  Which is why I was asking him if he read both secular and religious-based views on it.  Nice to try to understand current events and put them in context.  You can make better educated opinions then. 

    My question to you, I guess, is if you already have that mindset why even visit this type of thread?  I mean you are not trying to be influenced or learn more on the subject, right?  Or did I still miss your point?  

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwishSwish1234:

    To be honest, Kapono completely killed the vibe, I was looking for a simple 'Get a life' type of comment, After he had left a message about reading books on the Shia tribe and other nonsense about the Middle East. I assumed he would connect the dots and reply with a simple,  It's what i do pal type of comment but he seemed baffled and puzzled which then led me to respond with a cheeky remark of, For a person who is so book smart you certainly haven't got a grasp on the basics. 

    The reason for the initial comment is why would you want to learn about the filth that is the Middle East? Whether it's the Arab Terror groups or the Israeli government with their 'We are victim's' mentality, It's all a bunch of petty bs, The only explanation for wanting to read and learn about that part of the world is if you're studying it or if you are a Muslim or a person and want to learn why the mess is a mess. Otherwise why waste your time reading about that sh-thole, Go and do more productive and enjoyable things with your life. 

    I got your point now.  Sort of agree.  But never a bad thing to try to learn about something from people that are experts on it.  Which is why I was asking him if he read both secular and religious-based views on it.  Nice to try to understand current events and put them in context.  You can make better educated opinions then. 

    My question to you, I guess, is if you already have that mindset why even visit this type of thread?  I mean you are not trying to be influenced or learn more on the subject, right?  Or did I still miss your point?  

     
    SwishSwish1234
    SwishSwish1234
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    Posted: Jul. 25, 2014 - 3:41 PM ET #67

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

    I got your point now.  Sort of agree.  But never a bad thing to try to learn about something from people that are experts on it.  Which is why I was asking him if he read both secular and religious-based views on it.  Nice to try to understand current events and put them in context.  You can make better educated opinions then. 

    My question to you, I guess, is if you already have that mindset why even visit this type of thread?  I mean you are not trying to be influenced or learn more on the subject, right?  Or did I still miss your point?  


    You're probably right, I shouldn't have even opened this thread but with it being in the wrong forum, I couldn't help opening it and alerting the OP to not post it in this forum because if he had posted it in the correct forum, There would have been a maximum total of 15 replies to this thread. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

    I got your point now.  Sort of agree.  But never a bad thing to try to learn about something from people that are experts on it.  Which is why I was asking him if he read both secular and religious-based views on it.  Nice to try to understand current events and put them in context.  You can make better educated opinions then. 

    My question to you, I guess, is if you already have that mindset why even visit this type of thread?  I mean you are not trying to be influenced or learn more on the subject, right?  Or did I still miss your point?  


    You're probably right, I shouldn't have even opened this thread but with it being in the wrong forum, I couldn't help opening it and alerting the OP to not post it in this forum because if he had posted it in the correct forum, There would have been a maximum total of 15 replies to this thread. 

     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: Jul. 25, 2014 - 4:08 PM ET #68

    Quote Originally Posted by SwishSwish1234:


    You're probably right, I shouldn't have even opened this thread but with it being in the wrong forum, I couldn't help opening it and alerting the OP to not post it in this forum because if he had posted it in the correct forum, There would have been a maximum total of 15 replies to this thread. 

    Yes--For sure I agree with you on that.  Actually surprised they didn't move it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwishSwish1234:


    You're probably right, I shouldn't have even opened this thread but with it being in the wrong forum, I couldn't help opening it and alerting the OP to not post it in this forum because if he had posted it in the correct forum, There would have been a maximum total of 15 replies to this thread. 

    Yes--For sure I agree with you on that.  Actually surprised they didn't move it.

     
    nflcapperletsgo
    nflcapperletsgo
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    Posted: Jul. 26, 2014 - 1:45 PM ET #69

    So many misinformed people here.
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    So many misinformed people here.
     
    JEFFMARKETCAP
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    Posted: Jul. 26, 2014 - 3:40 PM ET #70

    Cease fire broken by Hamas.  These mofos are asking for it.  
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    Cease fire broken by Hamas.  These mofos are asking for it.  
     
    jackjaffee
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    Posted: Jul. 26, 2014 - 6:09 PM ET #71

    stop the presses, there's conflict in the middle east?!?!?
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    stop the presses, there's conflict in the middle east?!?!?
     
    nflcapperletsgo
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    Posted: Jul. 26, 2014 - 6:15 PM ET #72

    Hamas was joyous when 9/11 happened.  Gave candy out to their friends and families.  They are evil.  Anyone who says they are not the cause of the current conflict are just plain stupid.
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    Hamas was joyous when 9/11 happened.  Gave candy out to their friends and families.  They are evil.  Anyone who says they are not the cause of the current conflict are just plain stupid.
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jul. 26, 2014 - 6:32 PM ET #73

    Quote Originally Posted by nflcapperletsgo:

    Hamas was joyous when 9/11 happened.  Gave candy out to their friends and families.  They are evil.  Anyone who says they are not the cause of the current conflict are just plain stupid.

    Says your viewpoint with obvious biases.

    How many Palestinians do you personally know? 

    To say that "Hamas was joyful" blah blah blah is absurd, there were people who were joyful just as there are a segment of ANY population which are unsavory, it doesnt matter which population..in any group you will find good and bad and that is the case in this situation as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nflcapperletsgo:

    Hamas was joyous when 9/11 happened.  Gave candy out to their friends and families.  They are evil.  Anyone who says they are not the cause of the current conflict are just plain stupid.

    Says your viewpoint with obvious biases.

    How many Palestinians do you personally know? 

    To say that "Hamas was joyful" blah blah blah is absurd, there were people who were joyful just as there are a segment of ANY population which are unsavory, it doesnt matter which population..in any group you will find good and bad and that is the case in this situation as well.
     
    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: Jul. 26, 2014 - 7:51 PM ET #74

    Quote Originally Posted by nflcapperletsgo:

    So many misinformed people here.

    Inform us
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    Quote Originally Posted by nflcapperletsgo:

    So many misinformed people here.

    Inform us
     
     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: Jul. 26, 2014 - 8:25 PM ET #75

    Quote Originally Posted by nflcapperletsgo:

    Hamas was joyous when 9/11 happened.  Gave candy out to their friends and families.  They are evil.  Anyone who says they are not the cause of the current conflict are just plain stupid.

    Lotta folks prefer stupid.   
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    Quote Originally Posted by nflcapperletsgo:

    Hamas was joyous when 9/11 happened.  Gave candy out to their friends and families.  They are evil.  Anyone who says they are not the cause of the current conflict are just plain stupid.

    Lotta folks prefer stupid.   
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