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    All Forums | General Discussion

    4 Teens rob a house, homeowner kills 1, 3 left get murder convictions

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    SteelCash
    searchwarrant
    Hawky
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    SteelCash
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    Posted: Apr. 22, 2015 - 6:29 PM ET #26

    Quote Originally Posted by bk1374:


    One of the four is dead.  So their actions DID 100% cause DEATH for someone.  I'm not saying the punishment is justified, but let's at least understand the facts here. The fact that they did not bring their own weapons seems completely irrelevant.  


    The single thing that caused the death was the gunshot.  He was an adult.  He made the decision to go through with the crime, and he paid the ultimate price.  For his buddies to take the fall and face murder charges is completely asinine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bk1374:


    One of the four is dead.  So their actions DID 100% cause DEATH for someone.  I'm not saying the punishment is justified, but let's at least understand the facts here. The fact that they did not bring their own weapons seems completely irrelevant.  


    The single thing that caused the death was the gunshot.  He was an adult.  He made the decision to go through with the crime, and he paid the ultimate price.  For his buddies to take the fall and face murder charges is completely asinine.
     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Apr. 22, 2015 - 6:45 PM ET #27

    This is nothing more than prosecutors figuring out a way to put more people in jail for longer periods of time, and the jurors fell for it.

    Next thing you know, five teenagers will be drinking illegally (age) and one will fall and die.  Then the four others will charged with felony murder and go to jail for 50 years.  If you don't see the problem here, I can't help you.


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    This is nothing more than prosecutors figuring out a way to put more people in jail for longer periods of time, and the jurors fell for it.

    Next thing you know, five teenagers will be drinking illegally (age) and one will fall and die.  Then the four others will charged with felony murder and go to jail for 50 years.  If you don't see the problem here, I can't help you.


     
    searchwarrant
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    Posted: Apr. 22, 2015 - 9:10 PM ET #28

    Mexican courtroom, Mexican judge.

    Appeal on deck. Whomever was on that bench is way out of their authority, and will answer to a higher court.

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    Mexican courtroom, Mexican judge.

    Appeal on deck. Whomever was on that bench is way out of their authority, and will answer to a higher court.

     
    Hawky
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    Posted: Apr. 23, 2015 - 11:19 PM ET #29

    1 of 4 of them wont be doing that again. lesson learned
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    1 of 4 of them wont be doing that again. lesson learned
     
    stats1
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    Posted: Apr. 23, 2015 - 11:40 PM ET #30

     Bastardssss got what they deserve  
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     Bastardssss got what they deserve  
     
    habs1
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    Posted: Apr. 24, 2015 - 5:37 PM ET #31

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCash:

    This is nothing more than prosecutors figuring out a way to put more people in jail for longer periods of time, and the jurors fell for it.

    Next thing you know, five teenagers will be drinking illegally (age) and one will fall and die.  Then the four others will charged with felony murder and go to jail for 50 years.  If you don't see the problem here, I can't help you.

    Maybe you should learn about felony murder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCash:

    This is nothing more than prosecutors figuring out a way to put more people in jail for longer periods of time, and the jurors fell for it.

    Next thing you know, five teenagers will be drinking illegally (age) and one will fall and die.  Then the four others will charged with felony murder and go to jail for 50 years.  If you don't see the problem here, I can't help you.

    Maybe you should learn about felony murder.
     
    searchwarrant
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    Posted: Apr. 24, 2015 - 10:07 PM ET #32

    This story should lead all news. Outrageous application of an obscure loop in the felony code by some hick judge in that fly over state.  No way does a rational mind disagree.

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    This story should lead all news. Outrageous application of an obscure loop in the felony code by some hick judge in that fly over state.  No way does a rational mind disagree.

     
    mattbrot
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    Posted: Apr. 25, 2015 - 12:35 AM ET #33

    Search - I am not trolling here. But what do you mean with your post?
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    Search - I am not trolling here. But what do you mean with your post?
     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Apr. 25, 2015 - 12:51 AM ET #34

    Try to keep up habs.

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    Try to keep up habs.

     
    ksuwins
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    Posted: Apr. 25, 2015 - 2:26 AM ET #35

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer_B:

    The 3 three teens that lived get convicted of murder because the homeowner shot & killed one of the intruders and they get sentenced to about 50 years each in prison. 

    IMO - Pretty harsh for not having a weapon and I'm surprised that the prosecutors pushed the meaning of the law to apply to this case. They "thought" the house was empty but the homeowner was sleeping. I was no angel when young, but I'd never break into someones house. 

    I have a feeling this will get overturned eventually and a lesser sentence will be applied but it'd be good if parents could take the time of explaining how you can end up in situations like this because of being stupid.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/crime/2015/04/19/men-became-murderers-without-killing-anyone/26027173/

    What if it was your house?  I don't give a flying f*ck about what they were thinking....thought someone wasn't home?  If someone comes into your home while your sleeping, you best be ready to shoot because they aren't there to negotiate the removal of your valuables.

    If you want to wonder into someone's house, you take just a little bit of risk, right?  You might get f*cking shot, and everyone knows this.

    And why wouldn't YOU break into anyone's house?  Because you know better, heh?

    Quit thinking that everyone thinks like you do-with a conscience.

    Why do any of us have to explain this sh*t?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer_B:

    The 3 three teens that lived get convicted of murder because the homeowner shot & killed one of the intruders and they get sentenced to about 50 years each in prison. 

    IMO - Pretty harsh for not having a weapon and I'm surprised that the prosecutors pushed the meaning of the law to apply to this case. They "thought" the house was empty but the homeowner was sleeping. I was no angel when young, but I'd never break into someones house. 

    I have a feeling this will get overturned eventually and a lesser sentence will be applied but it'd be good if parents could take the time of explaining how you can end up in situations like this because of being stupid.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/crime/2015/04/19/men-became-murderers-without-killing-anyone/26027173/

    What if it was your house?  I don't give a flying f*ck about what they were thinking....thought someone wasn't home?  If someone comes into your home while your sleeping, you best be ready to shoot because they aren't there to negotiate the removal of your valuables.

    If you want to wonder into someone's house, you take just a little bit of risk, right?  You might get f*cking shot, and everyone knows this.

    And why wouldn't YOU break into anyone's house?  Because you know better, heh?

    Quit thinking that everyone thinks like you do-with a conscience.

    Why do any of us have to explain this sh*t?
     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Apr. 25, 2015 - 7:05 AM ET #36

    Quote Originally Posted by searchwarrant:

    This story should lead all news. Outrageous application of an obscure loop in the felony code by some hick judge in that fly over state.  No way does a rational mind disagree.


    It's crazy Search.  This f^cking world has gone mad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by searchwarrant:

    This story should lead all news. Outrageous application of an obscure loop in the felony code by some hick judge in that fly over state.  No way does a rational mind disagree.


    It's crazy Search.  This f^cking world has gone mad.

     
    jpero
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    Posted: Apr. 26, 2015 - 9:49 PM ET #37

    Does another situation like the Petit family in Chesire have to take place before people start taking home invasions serious?

    They were committing a felony and their decision led to their assailant being killed. Maybe not murder charges but they should be charged for manslaughter or murder 2. They are the ones responsible for the death.

    You want to act like scum of the world then prepare to accept the consequences.
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    Does another situation like the Petit family in Chesire have to take place before people start taking home invasions serious?

    They were committing a felony and their decision led to their assailant being killed. Maybe not murder charges but they should be charged for manslaughter or murder 2. They are the ones responsible for the death.

    You want to act like scum of the world then prepare to accept the consequences.
     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Apr. 27, 2015 - 5:51 PM ET #38

    Quote Originally Posted by jpero:

    Does another situation like the Petit family in Chesire have to take place before people start taking home invasions serious?

    They were committing a felony and their decision led to their assailant being killed. Maybe not murder charges but they should be charged for manslaughter or murder 2. They are the ones responsible for the death.

    You want to act like scum of the world then prepare to accept the consequences.

    The law is pretty black and white, as it should be.  When you are found guilty of a crime, you face consequences, as you should.  They aren't guilty of manslaughter, and they're not guilty of murder.

    Acting like "the scum of the earth" is subjective, and has no use in the conversation of law.  Not trying to be an *ss... just sayin' is all.  I reserve that expression for people that actually kill people unjustly.  An example of such would be the slaying of Walter Scott when the cop shot a man running away from him.  Another example would be the kids at Columbine.

    Also, this wasn't a home invasion, but a robbery.  They thought nobody was home.  A home invasion is when someone invades a home full well knowing people are present.  They go in and kill the occupants, sometimes in brutal fashion.  They may or may not choose to take possessions.  Many times they get their satisfaction filled with the mere act of killing, and they don't take anything.

    Sure their acts led to the shooting, but that means nothing.  If I buy beer for a friend and he refuses to spend the night after 12 drinks, it's not my fault if he gets in a fatal accident on the way home.  Me giving him beer led to his death, but he made the decision to drive.  That man made the decision to rob that house with his friends.  His friends didn't kill him.  The man protecting his home and family did.

    When a group of people rob a bank and one gets shot and killed, the others don't face murder charges for it.  This is no different.  They are creating charges out of thin air and applying them to innocent people.  They are guilty of breaking and entering.  Nothing more.  Charge them as such.  They didn't kill anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpero:

    Does another situation like the Petit family in Chesire have to take place before people start taking home invasions serious?

    They were committing a felony and their decision led to their assailant being killed. Maybe not murder charges but they should be charged for manslaughter or murder 2. They are the ones responsible for the death.

    You want to act like scum of the world then prepare to accept the consequences.

    The law is pretty black and white, as it should be.  When you are found guilty of a crime, you face consequences, as you should.  They aren't guilty of manslaughter, and they're not guilty of murder.

    Acting like "the scum of the earth" is subjective, and has no use in the conversation of law.  Not trying to be an *ss... just sayin' is all.  I reserve that expression for people that actually kill people unjustly.  An example of such would be the slaying of Walter Scott when the cop shot a man running away from him.  Another example would be the kids at Columbine.

    Also, this wasn't a home invasion, but a robbery.  They thought nobody was home.  A home invasion is when someone invades a home full well knowing people are present.  They go in and kill the occupants, sometimes in brutal fashion.  They may or may not choose to take possessions.  Many times they get their satisfaction filled with the mere act of killing, and they don't take anything.

    Sure their acts led to the shooting, but that means nothing.  If I buy beer for a friend and he refuses to spend the night after 12 drinks, it's not my fault if he gets in a fatal accident on the way home.  Me giving him beer led to his death, but he made the decision to drive.  That man made the decision to rob that house with his friends.  His friends didn't kill him.  The man protecting his home and family did.

    When a group of people rob a bank and one gets shot and killed, the others don't face murder charges for it.  This is no different.  They are creating charges out of thin air and applying them to innocent people.  They are guilty of breaking and entering.  Nothing more.  Charge them as such.  They didn't kill anyone.

     
    Killer_B
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    Posted: Apr. 27, 2015 - 10:22 PM ET #39

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCash:


    The law is pretty black and white, as it should be.  When you are found guilty of a crime, you face consequences, as you should.  They aren't guilty of manslaughter, and they're not guilty of murder.

    Acting like "the scum of the earth" is subjective, and has no use in the conversation of law.  Not trying to be an *ss... just sayin' is all.  I reserve that expression for people that actually kill people unjustly.  An example of such would be the slaying of Walter Scott when the cop shot a man running away from him.  Another example would be the kids at Columbine.

    Also, this wasn't a home invasion, but a robbery.  They thought nobody was home.  A home invasion is when someone invades a home full well knowing people are present.  They go in and kill the occupants, sometimes in brutal fashion.  They may or may not choose to take possessions.  Many times they get their satisfaction filled with the mere act of killing, and they don't take anything.

    Sure their acts led to the shooting, but that means nothing.  If I buy beer for a friend and he refuses to spend the night after 12 drinks, it's not my fault if he gets in a fatal accident on the way home.  Me giving him beer led to his death, but he made the decision to drive.  That man made the decision to rob that house with his friends.  His friends didn't kill him.  The man protecting his home and family did.

    When a group of people rob a bank and one gets shot and killed, the others don't face murder charges for it.  This is no different.  They are creating charges out of thin air and applying them to innocent people.  They are guilty of breaking and entering.  Nothing more.  Charge them as such.  They didn't kill anyone.


    Question: If those a-holes didn't break-in to that house, would the guy that died be alive? Means nothing? Come on now. They initiated the act that ended with one of them dead. Your wrong about the bank robbery, if your in the act of a felony and someone dies you may be charged with murder. Your last paragraph your calling them "innocent people". Please, they're not innocent, their actions caused someone to die. Agreed they didn't have intentions for anyone to die, but someone did.

    That said I find this harsh but calling them innocent and charges created out of thin air is off base.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCash:


    The law is pretty black and white, as it should be.  When you are found guilty of a crime, you face consequences, as you should.  They aren't guilty of manslaughter, and they're not guilty of murder.

    Acting like "the scum of the earth" is subjective, and has no use in the conversation of law.  Not trying to be an *ss... just sayin' is all.  I reserve that expression for people that actually kill people unjustly.  An example of such would be the slaying of Walter Scott when the cop shot a man running away from him.  Another example would be the kids at Columbine.

    Also, this wasn't a home invasion, but a robbery.  They thought nobody was home.  A home invasion is when someone invades a home full well knowing people are present.  They go in and kill the occupants, sometimes in brutal fashion.  They may or may not choose to take possessions.  Many times they get their satisfaction filled with the mere act of killing, and they don't take anything.

    Sure their acts led to the shooting, but that means nothing.  If I buy beer for a friend and he refuses to spend the night after 12 drinks, it's not my fault if he gets in a fatal accident on the way home.  Me giving him beer led to his death, but he made the decision to drive.  That man made the decision to rob that house with his friends.  His friends didn't kill him.  The man protecting his home and family did.

    When a group of people rob a bank and one gets shot and killed, the others don't face murder charges for it.  This is no different.  They are creating charges out of thin air and applying them to innocent people.  They are guilty of breaking and entering.  Nothing more.  Charge them as such.  They didn't kill anyone.


    Question: If those a-holes didn't break-in to that house, would the guy that died be alive? Means nothing? Come on now. They initiated the act that ended with one of them dead. Your wrong about the bank robbery, if your in the act of a felony and someone dies you may be charged with murder. Your last paragraph your calling them "innocent people". Please, they're not innocent, their actions caused someone to die. Agreed they didn't have intentions for anyone to die, but someone did.

    That said I find this harsh but calling them innocent and charges created out of thin air is off base.
     
    1129ken
    1129ken
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    Posted: Apr. 28, 2015 - 12:26 AM ET #40

    Like many laws, felony-murder has its proponents and its critics. I understand the reasoning of critics, but, from my vantage point, if you engage in inherently dangerous criminal activity, laws that holds you accountable for all of the consequences that follow are good laws. I respect the thinking of people who don't like felony-murder laws, but I completely disagree with those who suggest those laws are illogical or outrageous.
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    Like many laws, felony-murder has its proponents and its critics. I understand the reasoning of critics, but, from my vantage point, if you engage in inherently dangerous criminal activity, laws that holds you accountable for all of the consequences that follow are good laws. I respect the thinking of people who don't like felony-murder laws, but I completely disagree with those who suggest those laws are illogical or outrageous.
     
    Killer_B
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    Posted: Apr. 28, 2015 - 12:28 AM ET #41

    Well played ken...
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    Well played ken...
     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Apr. 28, 2015 - 1:00 AM ET #42

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer_B:


    Question: If those a-holes didn't break-in to that house, would the guy that died be alive? Means nothing? Come on now. They initiated the act that ended with one of them dead. Your wrong about the bank robbery, if your in the act of a felony and someone dies you may be charged with murder. Your last paragraph your calling them "innocent people". Please, they're not innocent, their actions caused someone to die. Agreed they didn't have intentions for anyone to die, but someone did.

    That said I find this harsh but calling them innocent and charges created out of thin air is off base.

    C'mon Killer... their actions didn't cause him to die.  The gunshot did that.  And they didn't force him to break into that house either.

    A person dies on a slick road in the winter, so we need to charge the city for murder for not icing the roads.  He was on his way to his grandmother' house to shovel her drive, so she needs charged with murder because had he not been out in that crazy weather to do her a favor, he'd still be alive.  The bird that flew in front of him distracted him, so it needs charged with murder.

    You can't charge someone with murder if they didn't kill anybody.  I really can't understand how this concept is so difficult to grasp.  

    If the nagging wife would have shut up and not went on and on about her husband not putting up the Christmas lights, he wouldn't have fallen off the ladder and he'd still be alive.  Charge her with murder.

    Where does it end?

    You can't say, "Well if this hadn't happened and that hadn't happened, he'd still be alive!"  

    When you're drunk and passed out in your car in a parking lot IN THE BACK SEAT, you can still get a DUI if the keys are in your reach because you had intent to drive.  This is another law designed to put more people in jail.  How do you get charged with "driving under the influence" when you weren't even driving?


    There were never any drug laws until the 20th century.  Drugs weren't illegal before then.  But they figured that we need more laws.  This way people get jailed.  People pay fines.  We can confiscate everything they own because they bought it with drug money!  And the American people will agree that this is okay because they're just criminals anyhow so who cares?

    We have people making money off of people going to jail.  The annual income of the prison owners is directly proportional to how many people go to jail.  That's all you need to know.  If they can figure out a way to put you in jail, they will.  We lay off teachers by the thousands because we can't afford to pay them, and then we turn around and spend billions on new prisons the following week.  And the brainwashed public eats it up... "Well they're scum anyways... they got what they deserved".

    No they didn't.  They got charged with murder without murdering anyone.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer_B:


    Question: If those a-holes didn't break-in to that house, would the guy that died be alive? Means nothing? Come on now. They initiated the act that ended with one of them dead. Your wrong about the bank robbery, if your in the act of a felony and someone dies you may be charged with murder. Your last paragraph your calling them "innocent people". Please, they're not innocent, their actions caused someone to die. Agreed they didn't have intentions for anyone to die, but someone did.

    That said I find this harsh but calling them innocent and charges created out of thin air is off base.

    C'mon Killer... their actions didn't cause him to die.  The gunshot did that.  And they didn't force him to break into that house either.

    A person dies on a slick road in the winter, so we need to charge the city for murder for not icing the roads.  He was on his way to his grandmother' house to shovel her drive, so she needs charged with murder because had he not been out in that crazy weather to do her a favor, he'd still be alive.  The bird that flew in front of him distracted him, so it needs charged with murder.

    You can't charge someone with murder if they didn't kill anybody.  I really can't understand how this concept is so difficult to grasp.  

    If the nagging wife would have shut up and not went on and on about her husband not putting up the Christmas lights, he wouldn't have fallen off the ladder and he'd still be alive.  Charge her with murder.

    Where does it end?

    You can't say, "Well if this hadn't happened and that hadn't happened, he'd still be alive!"  

    When you're drunk and passed out in your car in a parking lot IN THE BACK SEAT, you can still get a DUI if the keys are in your reach because you had intent to drive.  This is another law designed to put more people in jail.  How do you get charged with "driving under the influence" when you weren't even driving?


    There were never any drug laws until the 20th century.  Drugs weren't illegal before then.  But they figured that we need more laws.  This way people get jailed.  People pay fines.  We can confiscate everything they own because they bought it with drug money!  And the American people will agree that this is okay because they're just criminals anyhow so who cares?

    We have people making money off of people going to jail.  The annual income of the prison owners is directly proportional to how many people go to jail.  That's all you need to know.  If they can figure out a way to put you in jail, they will.  We lay off teachers by the thousands because we can't afford to pay them, and then we turn around and spend billions on new prisons the following week.  And the brainwashed public eats it up... "Well they're scum anyways... they got what they deserved".

    No they didn't.  They got charged with murder without murdering anyone.



     
    TheDrizzle77
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    Posted: Apr. 28, 2015 - 1:11 AM ET #43

    They should throw the guy that shot the kid in jail, and give the three kids still alive a medal of bravery issued by the city commerce.


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    They should throw the guy that shot the kid in jail, and give the three kids still alive a medal of bravery issued by the city commerce.


     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Apr. 28, 2015 - 1:20 AM ET #44

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

    Notice how high the US is compared to other countries.  We house 25% of the world's prisoners in our jails.  Why is this?  It's because we have people motivated to put citizens in jail.  If you don't see a problem here...

    Now we're putting people in prison for murder that never murdered anyone.  We'll give it a fancy name... we'll call it felony murder, and the public will go right along with it.  

    Ha!  We just put four kids in jail in Indiana for murder for 200 years and they didn't even kill anyone!

    Cha ching!  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

    Notice how high the US is compared to other countries.  We house 25% of the world's prisoners in our jails.  Why is this?  It's because we have people motivated to put citizens in jail.  If you don't see a problem here...

    Now we're putting people in prison for murder that never murdered anyone.  We'll give it a fancy name... we'll call it felony murder, and the public will go right along with it.  

    Ha!  We just put four kids in jail in Indiana for murder for 200 years and they didn't even kill anyone!

    Cha ching!  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
     
    Masspike
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    Posted: Apr. 28, 2015 - 5:57 PM ET #45

    Chop their dominant hand off and give them another shot at straightening out.
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    Chop their dominant hand off and give them another shot at straightening out.
     
     
    1129ken
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    Posted: Apr. 28, 2015 - 10:08 PM ET #46

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer_B:

    Well played ken...



    Thanks, Killer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer_B:

    Well played ken...



    Thanks, Killer.
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