Hopkins- think he's retiring and even if he's not his best days are long past him.
Calzaghe- have never been impressed by joe, think he's a fraud and will always be considered a fraud in my book as he fought nobodies and a couple guys way past their prime.
Mijares- between him and calderon for my last spot, def on my top 10 for sure.
To remove first post, remove entire topic.
Top 5 P4P
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Miguel Cotto
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Kelly Pavlik
5. Ivan Calderon
Notable Boxers left off:
Hopkins- think he's retiring and even if he's not his best days are long past him.
Calzaghe- have never been impressed by joe, think he's a fraud and will always be considered a fraud in my book as he fought nobodies and a couple guys way past their prime.
Mijares- between him and calderon for my last spot, def on my top 10 for sure.
I'd put Cotto above Pacquiao, as Pac-man had the controversial win over JMM in his most recent test (Diaz doesn't count as a test), while Cotto handled Mosley in a close but relatively undisputed decision. Also, I might put Pavlik at #3 over JMM, and you could argue that Israel Vazquez deserves the fifth spot over Calderon, as the quality of opposition in the light flyweight division isn't as good as what Vazquez has faced. Rafael Marquez is an unbelievably good fighter, and Vazquez beat him twice, including that awesome third fight -- that 12th round should put Vazquez on the list. Another guy to look out for is Nonito Donaire. I was super impressed with his performances against Darchinyan and Maldonado. If he beats someone like Mijares in the next year, he vaults way up in my book.
I'd put Cotto above Pacquiao, as Pac-man had the controversial win over JMM in his most recent test (Diaz doesn't count as a test), while Cotto handled Mosley in a close but relatively undisputed decision. Also, I might put Pavlik at #3 over JMM, and you could argue that Israel Vazquez deserves the fifth spot over Calderon, as the quality of opposition in the light flyweight division isn't as good as what Vazquez has faced. Rafael Marquez is an unbelievably good fighter, and Vazquez beat him twice, including that awesome third fight -- that 12th round should put Vazquez on the list. Another guy to look out for is Nonito Donaire. I was super impressed with his performances against Darchinyan and Maldonado. If he beats someone like Mijares in the next year, he vaults way up in my book.
Agree NJdevils and A2C, I don't see how you can leave Vazquez out.
Here's mine...
1. Manny (Yeah, I still think he lost to JMM, but look at what weight class he started at, where he is now, and the HOF'ers he has beaten along the way) 2. Calzaghe 3. Pavlik 4. Vazquez 5. Cotto (Lower than most would have him, but he still hasn't been the linear champ at any weight class)
Agree NJdevils and A2C, I don't see how you can leave Vazquez out.
Here's mine...
1. Manny (Yeah, I still think he lost to JMM, but look at what weight class he started at, where he is now, and the HOF'ers he has beaten along the way) 2. Calzaghe 3. Pavlik 4. Vazquez 5. Cotto (Lower than most would have him, but he still hasn't been the linear champ at any weight class)
I dont get why you have Pavlik in your top 5 p4p list.He hasnt proved anything yet, because he beat Taylor? that isnt a single thing yet.Calzaghe would beat him easily.Even Hopkins would destroy him.My top 5 are
1.Manny Paquiao
2.Joe Calzaghe
3.Miguel Cotto
4.Joan Guzman
5.Juan Manuel Marquez
I dont get why you have Pavlik in your top 5 p4p list.He hasnt proved anything yet, because he beat Taylor? that isnt a single thing yet.Calzaghe would beat him easily.Even Hopkins would destroy him.My top 5 are
I dont get why you have Pavlik in your top 5 p4p list.He hasnt proved anything yet, because he beat Taylor? that isnt a single thing yet.Calzaghe would beat him easily.Even Hopkins would destroy him.My top 5 are
IMO pavlik has proven a lot more than calzaghe has and ever will. I will agree with you that pavlik still has some proving to do.. But Calzaghe has never faced anyone on the level of taylor in his career and never will. Calzaghe beat an over the hill hopkins, an overrated lacy, an overated/unproven kessler, and an over the hill chris eubank. After that calzaghe has fought nothing but garbage, he's a protected british fighter who will retire undefeated having never taken one true test...
Quote Originally Posted by albo2006:
I dont get why you have Pavlik in your top 5 p4p list.He hasnt proved anything yet, because he beat Taylor? that isnt a single thing yet.Calzaghe would beat him easily.Even Hopkins would destroy him.My top 5 are
IMO pavlik has proven a lot more than calzaghe has and ever will. I will agree with you that pavlik still has some proving to do.. But Calzaghe has never faced anyone on the level of taylor in his career and never will. Calzaghe beat an over the hill hopkins, an overrated lacy, an overated/unproven kessler, and an over the hill chris eubank. After that calzaghe has fought nothing but garbage, he's a protected british fighter who will retire undefeated having never taken one true test...
IMO pavlik has proven a lot more than calzaghe has and ever will. I will agree with you that pavlik still has some proving to do.. But Calzaghe has never faced anyone on the level of taylor in his career and never will. Calzaghe beat an over the hill hopkins, an overrated lacy, an overated/unproven kessler, and an over the hill chris eubank. After that calzaghe has fought nothing but garbage, he's a protected british fighter who will retire undefeated having never taken one true test...
At least Calzaghe has done more than Pavlik, so he deserves to be in the list , not Pavlik.
Quote Originally Posted by Smokeythebear:
IMO pavlik has proven a lot more than calzaghe has and ever will. I will agree with you that pavlik still has some proving to do.. But Calzaghe has never faced anyone on the level of taylor in his career and never will. Calzaghe beat an over the hill hopkins, an overrated lacy, an overated/unproven kessler, and an over the hill chris eubank. After that calzaghe has fought nothing but garbage, he's a protected british fighter who will retire undefeated having never taken one true test...
At least Calzaghe has done more than Pavlik, so he deserves to be in the list , not Pavlik.
First of all, anyone with Cotto at #1 is INSANE. Cotto is finally fighting people - but really? Paulie - slick slaphitter. No more, no less. Not exactly "elite" talent. Zab Judah? A decent test, but more of a true contender than elite guy. He has become a gatekeeper. Mosley? Made a bit of a comeback after being semi-shot. He fougt tomato cans to get in the position to fight Cotto. Also, we still have the Torres fight. Doubt lingers IMO.
(I expect Cotto to taste the canvas against AM) I wouldn't be shocked to see an early blowout by Antonio. I also wouldn't be shocked to see Cotto step up and blowout Antonio.
Second, Calzaghe has proved plenty. It wasn't his fault nobody was around to fight him. Lacy - next big thing? Ummm.. no. B-Hop will bring Joe down to earth? Ummm... no. I have no beef with Joe in the top 4-5. Top three? Not PFP.
Third, Pavlik.. the great white hope? Or is it all hype? I say hope. He has the power to stop Joe coming forward. That flash knockdown from B-Hop made me question what chance he would have standing in KP's chest for 12 rounds. I think KP would be Joe rather easy due to the styles.
Fourth, Manny. This guy will be a legend. He has beaten everyone he should have, including JMM. The move up in weight classes and still having the huge power despite not training 100% is amazing. Can't question him anymore. You would be silly.
Here is my list:
1. Pac-Man
2. Pavlik
3. Cotto
4. Calzaghe
5. W. Klitschko - I might get shit for this one, but he has really worked out the bugs and is set for a LONG reign at the top of the heavyweight rankings. If Tony the Tiger beats him, please slap me and ban me from the boxing forum for life.
Wow. We have to clear some things up here......
First of all, anyone with Cotto at #1 is INSANE. Cotto is finally fighting people - but really? Paulie - slick slaphitter. No more, no less. Not exactly "elite" talent. Zab Judah? A decent test, but more of a true contender than elite guy. He has become a gatekeeper. Mosley? Made a bit of a comeback after being semi-shot. He fougt tomato cans to get in the position to fight Cotto. Also, we still have the Torres fight. Doubt lingers IMO.
(I expect Cotto to taste the canvas against AM) I wouldn't be shocked to see an early blowout by Antonio. I also wouldn't be shocked to see Cotto step up and blowout Antonio.
Second, Calzaghe has proved plenty. It wasn't his fault nobody was around to fight him. Lacy - next big thing? Ummm.. no. B-Hop will bring Joe down to earth? Ummm... no. I have no beef with Joe in the top 4-5. Top three? Not PFP.
Third, Pavlik.. the great white hope? Or is it all hype? I say hope. He has the power to stop Joe coming forward. That flash knockdown from B-Hop made me question what chance he would have standing in KP's chest for 12 rounds. I think KP would be Joe rather easy due to the styles.
Fourth, Manny. This guy will be a legend. He has beaten everyone he should have, including JMM. The move up in weight classes and still having the huge power despite not training 100% is amazing. Can't question him anymore. You would be silly.
Here is my list:
1. Pac-Man
2. Pavlik
3. Cotto
4. Calzaghe
5. W. Klitschko - I might get shit for this one, but he has really worked out the bugs and is set for a LONG reign at the top of the heavyweight rankings. If Tony the Tiger beats him, please slap me and ban me from the boxing forum for life.
If you think that by having Cotto #1 is insane,then youre nuts by having Pavlik in the top 5.
Someone with good boxing skills should beat Pavlik easily, Pavlik is too green yet.
Didn't look too green against Miranda. Or an undefeated Taylor that beat B-Hop TWICE.... If Calzaghe is a top 5 guy (which he is by default) then Pav is right there. Honestly, how does Joe beat Pav? He is a slap hitter without a proven beard. I can't wait until they make that fight. Calzaghe and Pav will be the war that Joe wanted to have with B-Hop. I like Joe, but I can't wait until he gets dropped several times and TKO'd so we don't have to hear Pappa Enzo run his mouth.
Boxing is without star power right now. You have/had Floyd, Oscar, and Manny. Oscar only for drawing power, not actual skill anymore. Wladamir would work but he has nobody to fight anytime soon. Paulie "glass hands" Malignaggi would be huge if he could get a decent fight again and actually win. Old war vets like JMM just don't have it anymore as far as pfp rankings go. It is wide open. Should be fun to see who rises out of the muck to become the next big star.
I will say this - Cotto vs Margarito could be either a bust or something similar to Castillo vs Corrales I. It might make two legends in the same night.
Quote Originally Posted by albo2006:
If you think that by having Cotto #1 is insane,then youre nuts by having Pavlik in the top 5.
Someone with good boxing skills should beat Pavlik easily, Pavlik is too green yet.
Didn't look too green against Miranda. Or an undefeated Taylor that beat B-Hop TWICE.... If Calzaghe is a top 5 guy (which he is by default) then Pav is right there. Honestly, how does Joe beat Pav? He is a slap hitter without a proven beard. I can't wait until they make that fight. Calzaghe and Pav will be the war that Joe wanted to have with B-Hop. I like Joe, but I can't wait until he gets dropped several times and TKO'd so we don't have to hear Pappa Enzo run his mouth.
Boxing is without star power right now. You have/had Floyd, Oscar, and Manny. Oscar only for drawing power, not actual skill anymore. Wladamir would work but he has nobody to fight anytime soon. Paulie "glass hands" Malignaggi would be huge if he could get a decent fight again and actually win. Old war vets like JMM just don't have it anymore as far as pfp rankings go. It is wide open. Should be fun to see who rises out of the muck to become the next big star.
I will say this - Cotto vs Margarito could be either a bust or something similar to Castillo vs Corrales I. It might make two legends in the same night.
I have Pac Man as my #1 followed by Miguel Cotto. If Floyd was still there, which he kind of is and I'm sure will fight again, I would put him as 1b or 2a. After what Manny did last week I think I would have to put him ahead of Floyd. I think Pavlik will show a lot of what hes made about with his future fight with I believe Paul Williams, which they said on Friday Night fights tonight. I actually like Paul Williams to beat Pavlik but thats another story. I don't really like Calzaghe and fully believe that Roy Jones is going to beat him. I still think Roy has it in him, and hes going to be really up for this fight.
I have Pac Man as my #1 followed by Miguel Cotto. If Floyd was still there, which he kind of is and I'm sure will fight again, I would put him as 1b or 2a. After what Manny did last week I think I would have to put him ahead of Floyd. I think Pavlik will show a lot of what hes made about with his future fight with I believe Paul Williams, which they said on Friday Night fights tonight. I actually like Paul Williams to beat Pavlik but thats another story. I don't really like Calzaghe and fully believe that Roy Jones is going to beat him. I still think Roy has it in him, and hes going to be really up for this fight.
Williams is 147lbs how and why would he fight Pavlik?
Pavlik is THE MAN at middlewight. He is the linear undisputed champion. Cotto isnt the linear anything except the linear flavor of the month from HBO and Jim Lampley. If he beats Margarito then I will change my tune but I think he will get KOd
Williams is 147lbs how and why would he fight Pavlik?
Pavlik is THE MAN at middlewight. He is the linear undisputed champion. Cotto isnt the linear anything except the linear flavor of the month from HBO and Jim Lampley. If he beats Margarito then I will change my tune but I think he will get KOd
First of all, anyone with Cotto at #1 is INSANE. Cotto is finally fighting people - but really? Paulie - slick slaphitter. No more, no less. Not exactly "elite" talent. Zab Judah? A decent test, but more of a true contender than elite guy. He has become a gatekeeper. Mosley? Made a bit of a comeback after being semi-shot. He fougt tomato cans to get in the position to fight Cotto. Also, we still have the Torres fight. Doubt lingers IMO.
(I expect Cotto to taste the canvas against AM) I wouldn't be shocked to see an early blowout by Antonio. I also wouldn't be shocked to see Cotto step up and blowout Antonio.
Second, Calzaghe has proved plenty. It wasn't his fault nobody was around to fight him. Lacy - next big thing? Ummm.. no. B-Hop will bring Joe down to earth? Ummm... no. I have no beef with Joe in the top 4-5. Top three? Not PFP.
Third, Pavlik.. the great white hope? Or is it all hype? I say hope. He has the power to stop Joe coming forward. That flash knockdown from B-Hop made me question what chance he would have standing in KP's chest for 12 rounds. I think KP would be Joe rather easy due to the styles.
Fourth, Manny. This guy will be a legend. He has beaten everyone he should have, including JMM. The move up in weight classes and still having the huge power despite not training 100% is amazing. Can't question him anymore. You would be silly.
Here is my list:
1. Pac-Man
2. Pavlik
3. Cotto
4. Calzaghe
5. W. Klitschko - I might get shit for this one, but he has really worked out the bugs and is set for a LONG reign at the top of the heavyweight rankings. If Tony the Tiger beats him, please slap me and ban me from the boxing forum for life.
I would defend why I have Cotto at #1 but I see you have Klitschko on your list so you obviously don't know what you are doing. I will save my time.
Cotto may lose to Margarito but this is current P4P not future rankings
Quote Originally Posted by walktheline:
Wow. We have to clear some things up here......
First of all, anyone with Cotto at #1 is INSANE. Cotto is finally fighting people - but really? Paulie - slick slaphitter. No more, no less. Not exactly "elite" talent. Zab Judah? A decent test, but more of a true contender than elite guy. He has become a gatekeeper. Mosley? Made a bit of a comeback after being semi-shot. He fougt tomato cans to get in the position to fight Cotto. Also, we still have the Torres fight. Doubt lingers IMO.
(I expect Cotto to taste the canvas against AM) I wouldn't be shocked to see an early blowout by Antonio. I also wouldn't be shocked to see Cotto step up and blowout Antonio.
Second, Calzaghe has proved plenty. It wasn't his fault nobody was around to fight him. Lacy - next big thing? Ummm.. no. B-Hop will bring Joe down to earth? Ummm... no. I have no beef with Joe in the top 4-5. Top three? Not PFP.
Third, Pavlik.. the great white hope? Or is it all hype? I say hope. He has the power to stop Joe coming forward. That flash knockdown from B-Hop made me question what chance he would have standing in KP's chest for 12 rounds. I think KP would be Joe rather easy due to the styles.
Fourth, Manny. This guy will be a legend. He has beaten everyone he should have, including JMM. The move up in weight classes and still having the huge power despite not training 100% is amazing. Can't question him anymore. You would be silly.
Here is my list:
1. Pac-Man
2. Pavlik
3. Cotto
4. Calzaghe
5. W. Klitschko - I might get shit for this one, but he has really worked out the bugs and is set for a LONG reign at the top of the heavyweight rankings. If Tony the Tiger beats him, please slap me and ban me from the boxing forum for life.
I would defend why I have Cotto at #1 but I see you have Klitschko on your list so you obviously don't know what you are doing. I will save my time.
Cotto may lose to Margarito but this is current P4P not future rankings
Williams is 147lbs how and why would he fight Pavlik?
Pavlik is THE MAN at middlewight. He is the linear undisputed champion. Cotto isnt the linear anything except the linear flavor of the month from HBO and Jim Lampley. If he beats Margarito then I will change my tune but I think he will get KOd
Please tell me who Kelly Pavlik has beaten besides JT who at some point in both fights dominated him? Pavlik is good, but he has not fought anyone worthy of note. And it looks like a date of Sept 27th has been set for him and Paul Williams to get it on. Not really a smart move by Paul to move up 2 weight classes, but you have to remember, he has been big for the division that he has been in for a while now. Very tall and rangy guy for 147. Don't know how well he will be able to handle Pavliks power at that weight, but I will hope to get a good price on Paul. You are saying that Cotto is not a #1 P4P and will only be impressed if he beats Margo, well Paul Williams beat Margo a little while ago.
I just think that Cotto will wear Margo down and end it late. Flavor of the month? Guy has beaten everyone in his weight division and isn't ducking anyone like the "great" Floyd Mayweather.
Quote Originally Posted by NJDevils:
Williams is 147lbs how and why would he fight Pavlik?
Pavlik is THE MAN at middlewight. He is the linear undisputed champion. Cotto isnt the linear anything except the linear flavor of the month from HBO and Jim Lampley. If he beats Margarito then I will change my tune but I think he will get KOd
Please tell me who Kelly Pavlik has beaten besides JT who at some point in both fights dominated him? Pavlik is good, but he has not fought anyone worthy of note. And it looks like a date of Sept 27th has been set for him and Paul Williams to get it on. Not really a smart move by Paul to move up 2 weight classes, but you have to remember, he has been big for the division that he has been in for a while now. Very tall and rangy guy for 147. Don't know how well he will be able to handle Pavliks power at that weight, but I will hope to get a good price on Paul. You are saying that Cotto is not a #1 P4P and will only be impressed if he beats Margo, well Paul Williams beat Margo a little while ago.
I just think that Cotto will wear Margo down and end it late. Flavor of the month? Guy has beaten everyone in his weight division and isn't ducking anyone like the "great" Floyd Mayweather.
Pavlik beat Taylor twice ( i dont see why this is dismissed so easily) Taylor is P4P better than anyone Cotto has ever beaten.
Before Miranda sucked Pavlik ruined his career.
Best Power puncher in the sport.
I know Williams beat Margarito. to think that I would translate that into thinking Williams has a prayer against Pavliks power you are wrong.
He outboxed Margaritio in a very good fight. I think Margarito will beat Cotto. If he doesnt then fine Im wrong and put Cotto near my top 5
Taylor P4P better? Don't know about all that. Cotto has beaten and will beat whoever is in his division. Hasn't ducked anyone yet. Let me ask you, where do you have Floyd on that list of yours? Above Pavlik or what ?
Quote Originally Posted by NJDevils:
Pavlik beat Taylor twice ( i dont see why this is dismissed so easily) Taylor is P4P better than anyone Cotto has ever beaten.
Before Miranda sucked Pavlik ruined his career.
Best Power puncher in the sport.
I know Williams beat Margarito. to think that I would translate that into thinking Williams has a prayer against Pavliks power you are wrong.
He outboxed Margaritio in a very good fight. I think Margarito will beat Cotto. If he doesnt then fine Im wrong and put Cotto near my top 5
Taylor P4P better? Don't know about all that. Cotto has beaten and will beat whoever is in his division. Hasn't ducked anyone yet. Let me ask you, where do you have Floyd on that list of yours? Above Pavlik or what ?
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