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Rank these fighters. Thirty Pound-for-Pound Boxing Greats of All-Time.

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Posted: #1
I added requirements that will disqualify deserving fighters only in the interest of creating a pound-for-pound list that caters more to boxing talent than to the media hype. This list took a while to build using the requirements I set, but the talent of these 30 fighters listed IMO is an elite list.

*** No fighters that only fought at Heavyweight (Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali) ***
*** No fighters that started their career in the late 1800s (Joe Gans, Terry McGovern). ***
*** No fighters that have fought within the last 10 years. (Julio Cesar Chavez) ***
*** No fighters currently active. (Manny Pacquiao) ***

Listed below are thirty fighters that meet the criteria above.
I have already ranked this list myself but I have put them in alphabetical order.
I would appreciate any participation by just listing the fighters 1 to 30 with the number 1 being the best fighter pound-for-pound of all time.


 
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Posted: #2
Alexis Arguello
Archie Moore
Barney Ross
Benny Leonard
Billy Conn
Carlos Monzon
Eder Jofre
Eligio "Kid Chocolate" Sardiñas Montalvo
Emile Griffith
Ezzard Charles
Gene Tunney
Harry Greb
Henry Armstrong
Jake LaMotta
Jimmy McLarnin
Jimmy Wilde
Jose Napoles
Marcel Cerdan
Marvin Hagler
Mickey Walker
Roberto Duran
Ruben Olivares
Sam Langford
Sandy Saddler
Stanley Ketchel
Sugar Ray Leonard
Sugar Ray Robinson
Ted (Kid) Lewis
Tony Canzoneri
Willie Pep
 
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Posted: #3
Fun Phenomenal Facts For First-Class Fighters!

Sam Langford (Record: 178-32-39) {206-48-55 including newspaper decisions}: He was famously ducked by Jack Johnson. Heavyweight champ Jack Dempsey said it best when he said, "The hell I feared no man. There was one man I wouldn't fight because I knew he would flatten me. I was afraid of Sam Langford."

Gene Tunney (Record: 81-1-2) :He won two divisions' world titles in a time when there were only eight weight classes and lost only one time in his career. His one loss was to a fighter he beat four times.

Eder Jofre (Record: 72-2-4): Known as "The Golden Rooster," Eder Jofre was a superb Brazilian bantamweight and featherweight who won 72 fights and lost to only one opponent—Fighting Harada, on two occasions.
 
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Marcel Cerdan (Record: 111-4-0): His first two defeats were actually disqualifications. His third loss was a 15 round decision against Cyrille Delannoit, who he immediately rematched and won. Undefeated in his first 45 matches, it wasn't until Cerdan was 108-3-0 (and 33 years old) that he finally got, and won, his first world title bout against the legendary Tony Zale. His last career fight was a loss to Lamotta.
LaMotta won the first round, but Cerdan took the second and the third was even. After that it was plain that something was wrong with Cerdan, who had suffered a left shoulder separation when he fell to the canvas from a shove in the first round. LaMotta damaged his left hand in the fifth round, but even in the ninth round he landed 104 blows, whereas Cerdan was scarcely throwing a punch. Cerdan's manager, Jo Longman, stopped the fight at the beginning of the tenth round. Cerdan was killed months after the LaMotta fight in a tragic plan crash.
"Hopkins can cry about his shoulder injury against Dawson that he caused by jumping on Dawson's back. Cerdan had the same injury and fought on even though it totally hindered any threat he could pose throughout the fight. Before that ridiculous antic by Hopkins he was considered a throwback (old school) due to his long career, dominating at a late age and using great technique to defeat his opponents. After that performance and outcome, he should apologize and man up."

Carlos Monzon (Record: 87-3-9):  Considered by many as the greatest middleweight of all time, the handsome Argentine had a seven-year reign as world middleweight champion during which he made 14 consecutive defenses. As a young, unpolished boxer, he lost his 9th, 14th and 20th pro bouts in his native Argentina but then embarked on an 81-bout unbeaten streak—among the longest ever—to finish his career. He did it against quality opponents: He twice beat all-time greats Jose Napoles, Emile Griffith and Nino Benvenuti, and he also had a win against Bennie Briscoe.

Salvador Sanchez (Record: 44-1-1): Many boxing fans believe he would have been the greatest featherweight ever, but he passed away in a fatal car crash at the young age of 23. Nonetheless, his accomplishments before reaching 23 are enough to land him a spot on the list. He defended his featherweight title 10 consecutive times and defeated Wilfredo Gomez (TKO) and Azumah Nelson (TKO) during this span.

 
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Aaron Pryor (Record: 39-1-0) {35 by KO}: I did not forget to mention Aaron Pryor. Panama Lewis was involved with so many scandals yet to even be known to the public (includes the media). Pryor was great, but to what degree did Lewis use illegal and unethical practices to help Pryor win, or even win fights very impressively. A fighter using enhancements and stimulants throughout the fight will surely have an extremely high work rate most fighters can't keep up with. This was often the case with many Pryor fights, as he clearly out-classed many opponents, but had stamina every round when it appeared he over-exhausted himself walking back to the corner after a non-stop 180 second punching spree.
In 1982, Pryor fought Alexis Argüello. Before the fourteenth round, a cornerman held up a plastic water bottle, but HBO cameras caught Lewis yelling, "Not that bottle, the one I mixed." Pryor knocked out Arguello, but Lewis' comments fueled rumors that the bottle contained stimulants. Lewis said it only contained Perrier and tap water. Although Lewis was never formally sanctioned, the incident sullied his reputation, which was confirmed by his cheating discovered in subsequent fights.
It was an unfortunate for Pryor as we will never really know how much, how often he was taking illegal and unethical enhancements that allowed him to win consistently in dominating fashion (his KO percentage was 88% of all fights). His constant rejuvenation after severe rounds shows that he was often using something. Compare this to Margarito, he became a shell of the man he was once plaster in his wraps was exposed. I laugh when Margarito fans (yes they exist, Jerseyboy89 is one of those fans) say that it was more a case of long brutal fights and aging that made him decline rapidly.
 
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Posted: #6
Quote Originally Posted by ZOUK:

Marcel Cerdan (Record: 111-4-0): His first two defeats were actually disqualifications. His third loss was a 15 round decision against Cyrille Delannoit, who he immediately rematched and won. Undefeated in his first 45 matches, it wasn't until Cerdan was 108-3-0 (and 33 years old) that he finally got, and won, his first world title bout against the legendary Tony Zale. His last career fight was a loss to Lamotta.
LaMotta won the first round, but Cerdan took the second and the third was even. After that it was plain that something was wrong with Cerdan, who had suffered a left shoulder separation when he fell to the canvas from a shove in the first round. LaMotta damaged his left hand in the fifth round, but even in the ninth round he landed 104 blows, whereas Cerdan was scarcely throwing a punch. Cerdan's manager, Jo Longman, stopped the fight at the beginning of the tenth round. Cerdan was killed months after the LaMotta fight in a tragic plan crash.
"Hopkins can cry about his shoulder injury against Dawson that he caused by jumping on Dawson's back. Cerdan had the same injury and fought on even though it totally hindered any threat he could pose throughout the fight. Before that ridiculous antic by Hopkins he was considered a throwback (old school) due to his long career, dominating at a late age and using great technique to defeat his opponents. After that performance and outcome, he should apologize and man up."

Carlos Monzon (Record: 87-3-9):  Considered by many as the greatest middleweight of all time, the handsome Argentine had a seven-year reign as world middleweight champion during which he made 14 consecutive defenses. As a young, unpolished boxer, he lost his 9th, 14th and 20th pro bouts in his native Argentina but then embarked on an 81-bout unbeaten streak—among the longest ever—to finish his career. He did it against quality opponents: He twice beat all-time greats Jose Napoles, Emile Griffith and Nino Benvenuti, and he also had a win against Bennie Briscoe.

Salvador Sanchez (Record: 44-1-1): Many boxing fans believe he would have been the greatest featherweight ever, but he passed away in a fatal car crash at the young age of 23. Nonetheless, his accomplishments before reaching 23 are enough to land him a spot on the list. He defended his featherweight title 10 consecutive times and defeated Wilfredo Gomez (TKO) and Azumah Nelson (TKO) during this span.

 why are you knocking hopkins for what happened against dawson, the man is  46 years old for fuck sakes, robinson, duran, ali, chavez and many more quit on the stool in fights when they were in their mid to late 30's,  what hopkins in doing is remarkable, this man should not be here any more, the fact that he is, makes it a one and a life time type of thing, (their is a rematch between him and dawson as well, so he is not scared) reconize this man's genius.         as for the rest of your post,  it is interesting and I will reply about what I think, but for right now, I am about to get some box, so I will respond later.
 
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I thought Hopkins comments and last fight have been shady. What he has done is remarkable, how he acts at times is not the behavior of a HOF veteran who always showed some discretion, but seems jealous Floyd, Manny and others are getting daily press!
 
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Considered one of the greatest fighters in history,six world titles in three weight divisions:record of 107 wins, 6 losses and 2 draws, with 89 knockouts, and a reputation as one of the best boxers of all time.He holds records for most successful consecutive defenses of world titles (27), most title fights (37), most title-fight victories (31), and he is tied with Joe Louis for most title defenses won by knockout (21).Also has the longest undefeated streak in boxing history, 13 years. His record was 89-0-1 going into his first loss. Renowned especially for his devastating left hook and his ability to take a punch due to his extremly strong chin. Made his professional debut at age 17.Grew up in an abandoned railroad car with his five sisters and four brothers. Came from a poor family and became a boxer for money, he stated: "I saw my mom working ironing and washing peoples clothes, and I promised her I would give her a house someday and she would never have that job again."




Julio César Chávez

 
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Chavez's last competitive fight was the 2nd Oscar fight in 98. Julio was bankrupt. He made more money fighting Oscar then he did his whole career with Don King. Then he added 5 losses and a draw after fighting Oscar to make his record 107-6. Remember he was in his prime fighting Taylor in 1990.


 
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Only reason he wasn't listed was he fought 09/17/2005. My requirements were 10 years. Otherwise 100% he would be on that list. Where he ranks is up to you guys.
I know he was physically war-torn right around the Oscar fights. Oscar though at those weight was a beast, then as he moved up his power and speed were diminished. I think at 135lbs Oscar beats Chavez, and 142lbs in their primes.
 
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*** No fighters that only fought at Heavyweight (Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali) ***
*** No fighters that started their career in the late 1800s (Joe Gans, Terry McGovern). ***
*** No fighters that have fought within the last 10 years. (Julio Cesar Chavez) ***
*** No fighters currently active. (Manny Pacquiao) ***

He was my example of a fighter that would be listed otherwise. I felt bad leaving Joe Gans out, but I followed a requirement that makes the list very close and exciting in certain areas.
 
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No surprise that Robinson leads my list. I then would have Benny Leonard, Willie Pep, Henry Armstrong, Sam Langford, and Harry Greb.
Salvador Sanchez was on my list, somehow he got deleted my accident as I even did a small write-up on him.

 
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Revised:
Alexis Arguello
Archie Moore
Barney Ross
Benny Leonard
Billy Conn
Carlos Monzon
Eder Jofre
Eligio "Kid Chocolate" Sardiñas Montalvo
Emile Griffith
Ezzard Charles
Gene Tunney
Harry Greb
Henry Armstrong
Jake LaMotta
Jimmy McLarnin
Jimmy Wilde
Jose Napoles
Marcel Cerdan
Marvin Hagler
Mickey Walker
Roberto Duran
Ruben Olivares
Sam Langford
Salvador Sanchez
Sandy Saddler
Stanley Ketchel
Sugar Ray Leonard
Sugar Ray Robinson
Ted (Kid) Lewis
Tony Canzoneri
Willie Pep

If we were doing 30 only, I would be leaning toward taking either Jimmy McLarnin, Sandy Saddler or most likely Alexis Arguello. It;s tough because so many things have to be accounted for that you could make a case for any of them. I made the list knowing that everyone's rankings would be totally different after the top 4. Manny people will rank Duran and Ray Leonard higher as they were more recent and many of the fighters starting from 1901-1920s, you have no film to grade them other than fight record. Even Robinson, at his most dominant wasn't recorded until he was forced to move in weight. If we want to revise the list with only fighter will film from come time in their prime, then I'd be all for that. I think that would help many people get a better grasp for themselves to grade each fighter.
 
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I use the word fighter particularly and not boxer as these guys were not only boxers in the ring, but fighter in life over coming many obstacles in order to stay active and fight against the BS PR of the times.
 
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Posted: #15
Quote Originally Posted by ZOUK:

Revised:
Alexis Arguello
Archie Moore
Barney Ross
Benny Leonard
Billy Conn
Carlos Monzon
Eder Jofre
Eligio "Kid Chocolate" Sardiñas Montalvo
Emile Griffith
Ezzard Charles
Gene Tunney
Harry Greb
Henry Armstrong
Jake LaMotta
Jimmy McLarnin
Jimmy Wilde
Jose Napoles
Marcel Cerdan
Marvin Hagler
Mickey Walker
Roberto Duran
Ruben Olivares
Sam Langford
Salvador Sanchez
Sandy Saddler
Stanley Ketchel
Sugar Ray Leonard
Sugar Ray Robinson
Ted (Kid) Lewis
Tony Canzoneri
Willie Pep

If we were doing 30 only, I would be leaning toward taking either Jimmy McLarnin, Sandy Saddler or most likely Alexis Arguello. It;s tough because so many things have to be accounted for that you could make a case for any of them. I made the list knowing that everyone's rankings would be totally different after the top 4. Manny people will rank Duran and Ray Leonard higher as they were more recent and many of the fighters starting from 1901-1920s, you have no film to grade them other than fight record. Even Robinson, at his most dominant wasn't recorded until he was forced to move in weight. If we want to revise the list with only fighter will film from come time in their prime, then I'd be all for that. I think that would help many people get a better grasp for themselves to grade each fighter.
you have a list of 31 and mentioned that if you had to make it an even 30, SANDY SADDLER was one of the 3 you would consider taking out, don't do it, saddler to me is top 10 ever,  hell the man beat pep 3 out of 4 and it was not like he was one of those guys that just had a better fighters number, saddler had every ones number, he also retired as both the featherweight and jr lightweight champ. he had a hard time getting featherweights to fight him so often fought at 135 lbs, he even has a ko win over joe brown. it's true that he would lose to a guy that you never heard of once every year or so, but he was a black man who often fought in other guys home towns in off televized fights,  shit if you think that emanuel augustus got robbed today fighting guys in their hometowns, the circumstances were much worse for saddler during the 40's and 50's. you can bet most of those decision losses were unjust, even watching the fight of him vs charley riley in riley's hometown, saddler gave him a good going over, riley was as tough as they come, but saddler clearly won,  yet won by just a split decision on the cards  my only question about saddler is weather or not he's the best featherweight of all time? was anyone better a 130? saddler was a monsters and simply too tough, too dirty and too big of a puncher for almost all of his opponents. he was a man against boys and one of the greatest to ever live.
 
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I have been trying to figure out who I think is the best fighter of all time for a long time, my mind changes between 3 guys, langford, robinson and armstrong, I will go back and forth on the matter,   to me LANGFORD, was the most feared fighter who ever lived, when he weighed 160 lbs heavyweights would not fight him and that's after coming up from the lightweight divisions, that's like a heavyweight ducking roberto duran when he was fighting a middleweight, to me that says a lot.   ROBINSON, so stylish, but yet such a big puncher at the same time, his toughness goes underrated, as good as he looks on film today add about 20 percent genius to that as he was at his best at welter not middle and no fights exist of him at welterweight, only some brief highlights that skip around a lot and make it hard for the fewer to get a good assesment of things.    ARMSTRONG, feather, light and welter, and not in that order, he won the feather weight title, moved to welter won that, then moved down to lightweight, sarron, ross and ambers in that order. should of won middleweight title as well but was robbed.    oh and joe gans was farther ahead of his competition than any fighter ever,   kind of like roy jones in his prime only x it by 2
 
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Posted: #17
Some if our era fighters. Only because Jones fought within 10 years I opted him out. Otherwise, I might have made a 50 list and Jones, Chavez, Whitaker (fought 04/27/2001 was eligible, but I didn't list him for that, also he wouldn't make the 30, and I personally was never a fan of him), Hearns (fought 2006), and others.
thesoulpurpose: at least you understand how fighters had to lose when told to back then or they would be finished. example was another fighter you can easily add to the list and I will quote an excerpt from another site.
Ike Williams (Record: 128-24-4): Losing several significant fights and admitted to having thrown one. He had major wins over some of the finest fighters of all time, including Kid Gavilan (54th), Beau Jack (60th) twice, Sammy Angott and Bob Montgomery.

The most ducked fighter (and feared) was Langford, then Liston and Tyson. Fighters fought Tyson buy 80% of them ran from the start and never had give them-self a chance. Alex Stewart ran and tied Tyson up not even throwing a real punch and getting TKO'd in Round 1. In the older times, if fighter ran and held like that, they wouldn't get paid and wouldn't get another fight, so they had to fight.
 
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Charles Burley was so good, he was in my opinion the most ducked fighter ever. The fighter that ducked him were Billy Conn, Marcel Cerdan, Jake LaMotta and Sugar Ray Robinson. Now in that time, that is some serious respect. I know Langford was feared and ducked, but when you have Sugar Ray Robinson (maybe ranked #1 All-Time pound-for-pound on more lists than anyone) avoiding you, that speaks for itself.
Eddie "Papa" Futch was quoted "he finest all-around fighter I ever saw" and a former sparring partner made the comparison between Burley and a prime Roy Jones Jr.
 
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More recent fighter that I grew up watching that could be considered for the list of 30, certainly for a top 50 or even 100. If I did want a 100 list, I would alter the requirements such as adding Heavyweights, retired fighters (throwing out the 10 year rule), and allowing fighter in the 1800s (so fighters like Gans and McGovern get their due).
Here are a few more recent names of fighters that I followed entire careers that might not make an elite 30, but some people would include them and also they would make many top 50 or top 100 lists.

Ricardo Lopez
Azumah Nelson
Michael Carbajal
Humberto Gonzalez
Wilfred Benitez (I got to see the archives of him)

Now some very popular names to the somewhat avid boxing followers:
Ike Williams
Carmen Basilio
Beau Jack
Floyd Patterson
Tony Zale

Besides for Heavyweights, almost every pound-for-pound great fought several weight classes. So besides listing a ranking, you would have to note why a fighter is ranked and what weight classes did he earn it.
Examples:

Miguel Canto fought in the flyweight division and  currently holds the most wins by decision in 15 round championship bouts. Now that fights are no longer 15 rounds, unless they change it back, he holds a record that will remain his forever!

Nicolino Locche was an Argentinean had lightning fast hands and kept them at his sides. The comparison to Sergio Martinez you will see just watching a few of his bouts. The Argentinean twins!
 
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thesoulpurpose: Add me as a friend. I want to PM you some information you might find interesting as well as lucrative.
 
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or hit me off at the email listed on my account. I got something you are definitely going to like!
 
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Quote Originally Posted by ZOUK:

Only reason he wasn't listed was he fought 09/17/2005. My requirements were 10 years. Otherwise 100% he would be on that list. Where he ranks is up to you guys.
I know he was physically war-torn right around the Oscar fights. Oscar though at those weight was a beast, then as he moved up his power and speed were diminished. I think at 135lbs Oscar beats Chavez, and 142lbs in their primes.



 
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DeHoyos: Sorry, I just think his jab was more powerful than the majority of fighters power punch. He crouched, but he had the reach, speed, power, and accuracy... and at those weights, especially 135lbs. At 150lbs or more, Chavez rips Oscar a new one. Unfortunately all the talent Oscar fought was above his effective weight.
At lightweight, his jab was a sledge-hammer cutting machine! Every championship fighter he fought, he lost to the elite. Tito, Sugar, B-Hop, Money, and Pacman. Either it was a close fight, or he got destroyed. The only fight I felt he lost 8-4 or maybe closer was Floyd. Hopkins was to big, Manny to fast and Oscar at that age looked scrawny at the weigh-in with no muscular density. He lost to Sturm, but if they didn't get decision, no Mega-Fight with him and Hopkins. Shane and Felix were close bouts.
I remember watching Chavez-Taylor live and I was saying to myself and people at the party, Taylor won't be the same as he is taking a physical beating while everyone was all cheering the speed of Taylor that barely effected Chavez. Everyone that I was an idiot as I was saying I don't think Taylor can last, and then after the Richard Steele did the stop, everyone said a rematch and Taylor will beat Chavez easily. I said maybe when he gets out of the hospital and all his vitals are OK, maybe he'll be able to fight B Level fighters.
After the Randall loss, he was winning and people said he would continue until at age 33, Oscar jabbed him to pieces. Chavez could have been 26 and still would have got beat. Oscar mainly struggled with very fast handed fighters (especially anyone faster than him)...Trinidad, Mosley, Mayweather, Pacquiao. Hopkins was to big and to good, and Sturm was to stong and Oscar came in sloppy fat!
 
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Posted: #24
Julio's punching power would have been the difference. In his prime his speed would have allowed him to atleast land 3 to1 on Oscar and that would have been to much for the Golden Girl. Oscar doesnt even make into my top 50 all-time.


 
 
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Posted: #25
I was at a mexican party and everyone there was silent for the entire fight until the last 10 seconds...That fight is what made Julio Cesar Chavez a legend because it epitomized what a mexican fighter must be in order to have the respect of the mexican fans. Oscar is the opposite of that. And when they brought out those pics of him in drag,none of us were surprised.


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