Posted:
#1
Who you got and why?
Pacquiao vs. Marquez II
Posted:
#2
well i'll kick this off, from watching the last several fights of each fighter and watching the first fight again im thinking...marquez is the better overall technical boxer but my concern is that he gets into a slugging match between the emotion of everything and the crowd which favors pacman...pac has improved tremendously since their first match, he has a much better jab, more control, a stronger right overall just a much better boxer than he was in the first meeting...lean pac-man for now still pondering
Posted:
#4
Manny Pacquiao -180 (7.0 Units)
-Analysis-Juan Manuel Marquez is one of my favorite fighters... reason being is he is so well balanced in all attributes of a great fighter. He is one of the very best ring technicians I've ever seen. The main factor in this fight will come down to Marquez's hand speed. His hand speed has diminished too much since they last fought nearly 4 years ago. Manny Pacquiao has better balance and boxing ability than he ever had, while his physical attributes have not diminished. Marquez will not have the hand speed to counter against Pacquiao's offensive ability.
The-Ionizer
Posted:
#5
I also think marquez is not as strong defensively as he once was, he has kinda taken on this new style and in turn gets hit alot more than 4-5 years ago. I agree with your assemsent of hand speed, i think pac is still in his prime while marquez maybe on his way down....also in looking at their last few fights, while neither has looked great, it seems marquez's skills have diminished while pac-man just wasnt very motivated with all of the outside of the ring stuff, for this fight he seems more motivated than any fight ever.
Posted:
#7
Marquez can win, his game plan will have to play to frustrate Pacquiao into trying to slug, then countering and tying him up. If Pacquiao sticks to boxing and trades when the oppotunities there, Marquez will end up losing. The fight going the distance is likely, I don't expect this fight to start very fast as many might think. More likely it's stopped it will be do to a cut, or stoppage from eye swelling. Pacquiao vs Barrera II was slow because Barrera just didn't want to take any chances so the fight was boring. I think Pacquiao fought smart and just won on the outside with his hand speed and ability, and didn't try to bull over Barrera. Marquez vs Barrera was a close fight, I didn't think Marquez won it by the margins they scored it. He was easier than usual for Barrera to hit. Marquez is such a calculating fighter, but he does have that tendency to want to trade punches (because usually he is the more accurate puncher, has a strong punch, and is always in proper stance), but against Pacquiao he won't over do it. I think he will trade a few, then move circular. Moving backwards against Pacquiao's straight left is dangerous, and will result in the first round of their initial fight.
The-Ionizer
Posted:
#10
Marquez's hand speed has diminished, not to the point of where he can't hit Pacquiao, but it's the reason he has been taking so many shots. He's been unable to get in and out of his last 7 fights without taking shots in order to get his off. That wasn't true in his earlier career. I agree that hand speed is a last thing to go usually, but for Marquez, it is. His power is still about the same, his reaction time isn't off as much as it appears, its only because he has to put himself in dangerous positions cause his punches aren't getting there fast enough.
The-Ionizer
Posted:
#11
Quote Originally Posted by Smokeythebear:
they always say styles win fights...i kinda feel like marquez is exactly the fighter with his terrific counter punching that would do well against pac man and outside of that first round in the first meeting he did...going back and forth on this one for weeks now
Bingo for me.
If Marquez gets any higher, it's almost a must play on value alone. I have a feeling that somewhere around rd 8, I'll be happier I'm holding a +170 or higher ticket than laying -195 or so.
Waiting to see what this line does towards the end of the week. We may see even more of a surge on Pac man as the Filipinos arrive in Vegas. Maybe we can get a few more bucks still.
Bagel Sandwiches Suck
Posted:
#12
Marquez fought Pacquiao 4 years ago, and his speed has diminished slightly, and he has been taking alot of shots. Pacquiao has learned how to box since then (lol), not at the caliber of Marquez, but his faster stronger hands will be the deciding factor. Pacquiao biggest weakness in the past was his footing, since then he has become better balanced and can actually fight from the outside. Pacquiao will jab and work in from there, although that is not his strong point, it will create probelms for Marquez.
The-Ionizer
Posted:
#13
Quote Originally Posted by G8RB8:
Bingo for me.
If Marquez gets any higher, it's almost a must play on value alone. I have a feeling that somewhere around rd 8, I'll be happier I'm holding a +170 or higher ticket than laying -195 or so.
Waiting to see what this line does towards the end of the week. We may see even more of a surge on Pac man as the Filipinos arrive in Vegas. Maybe we can get a few more bucks still.
I dont see any reason why the line doesnt continue to climb, everyone and i mean everyone is betting on pac-man.
Posted:
#14
That's what betting is about, gaging the public betting. It's now just who you bet, it's when you bet. Similar to middling NFL point spreads. Boxing is much easier, the line comes out over inflated, then the best bettors bet, when it gets near what it should be, the public starts betting and it moves slightly. For instance, right now you have BetEd with Pacquiao -175 Marquez +145 & BoDog with Pacquiao -215 Marquez +175... gaging the public betting is the game is many fights. I currently can both both opponenets 4 days before the fight and break even wagering the same to win on each. Oscar versus Mayweather it started out as Mayweather around average -275, knowing the public would bet Oscar with those odds, if you liked Oscar bet him early, if Mayweather then wait until the line moves... or middle it, but you have to put your money up around 3 months ahead of time and let it sit, similar to a quarterly stock trade.
The-Ionizer
Posted:
#15
If you think this fight is going to the cards, as I do, remember three words: Golden Boy Promotions.
Ion-
In which fights have JMM's hands seemed slower to you? I think he has changed his style somewhat to be more appealing to the fans, willing to trade shots and get hit a little more, but I see no evidence that he has lost his hand speed. I'm not sure that will be his approach with Manny. He doesn't have to look spectacular, he just has to win this fight to secure his legacy. I also believe that in this style matchup, a fight that goes the distance is likely to leave an impression that JMM, the boxer, is winning.
Ion-
In which fights have JMM's hands seemed slower to you? I think he has changed his style somewhat to be more appealing to the fans, willing to trade shots and get hit a little more, but I see no evidence that he has lost his hand speed. I'm not sure that will be his approach with Manny. He doesn't have to look spectacular, he just has to win this fight to secure his legacy. I also believe that in this style matchup, a fight that goes the distance is likely to leave an impression that JMM, the boxer, is winning.
Posted:
#18
Quote Originally Posted by LetMeSpin:
In which fights have JMM's hands seemed slower to you?
In which fights have JMM's hands seemed slower to you?
I think he looked slow against Barrera espeically in comparsion to what Pac looked like against Barrera...I am huge supporter of Marquez's but I am concerned his has lost something since that last fight and is compensating with a much more aggressive attack which would play into the hands of pac.
Posted:
#19
theres no question barrera was over the hill but how can just a few months make such a huge difference. Pac was so much faster and he wasnt even in great shape, pac made barrera look old and like he didnt belong where as marquez's fight made barrera look like he still had alot left in the tank
Posted:
#21
Quote Originally Posted by Fullbrights:
The fight is at 130 lbs. not the lightweight limit of 135.
The fight is at 130 lbs. not the lightweight limit of 135.
Pac's gonna weigh upwards of 140 plus pounds by fighttime, which by the way, is superlightweight/juniorwelterweight. He can carry the weight, easily, despite weighing in at the superfeather/JUNIORLIGHTWEIGHT limit of 130 lbs.
Posted:
#23
Quote Originally Posted by LarryParker:
Pac's gonna weigh upwards of 140 plus pounds by fighttime, which by the way, is superlightweight/juniorwelterweight. He can carry the weight, easily, despite weighing in at the superfeather/JUNIORLIGHTWEIGHT limit of 130 lbs.
I thought the point needed to be made when you said that Manny was a full fledged lightweight now that this fight was at 130 lbs. It really is hard to be a full fledged lightweight when you have never fought at the 135 in your career.
Marquez will probably be 136-138 by fight time and Manny will probably be around 140.
Posted:
#24
Quote Originally Posted by LarryParker:
I also don't like the fact that an aged Barrera had Marquez out on his feet, after catching him foolishly rushing in for a knockout.
Marquez will have to fight the perfect fight to have any chance of winning, anything less will be uncivilized.
I wouldn't by any means say that he was out on his feet. He got caught by a punch he didn't see and he was hurt, but to say that he was out on his feet is a pretty big exaggeration.
Posted:
#25
Quote Originally Posted by Smokeythebear:
I also think marquez is not as strong defensively as he once was, he has kinda taken on this new style and in turn gets hit alot more than 4-5 years ago. I agree with your assemsent of hand speed, i think pac is still in his prime while marquez maybe on his way down....also in looking at their last few fights, while neither has looked great, it seems marquez's skills have diminished while pac-man just wasnt very motivated with all of the outside of the ring stuff, for this fight he seems more motivated than any fight ever.
I agree with the defensive assessment. I think it has been an effort on Marquez's part to be a little more fan friendly. I will never forget how boring the Victor Polo fight was just because of JMM's technical excellence and unwillingness to mix it up. Since then Marquez looks like he has made an effort to not just sit back and counter, in turn you have seen more excitement from him. Marquez still knows how to box though and he knows he doesn't need to get into a firefight here.
I disagree with Marquez's hand speed and skills diminishing though. I haven't seen it, in my opinion he is as technical savvy as ever and his speed is still there.
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