Kneeguel Cotto will quit again vs Margarito

you heard it here first, once a quitter always a quitter.  Margarito will maul him and make mexico proud.

Quitter.. you mean Ortiz the quitter! You fight another professional fighter that uses Bronze Knuckles and see how well you do... LOL! People here are making this a comedy forum!

Once a cheater always a cheater is more like it,he whooped his ass for the 1st half of the fight, till all the body work (with loaded gloves) took its toll, Cotto has been so cool and calm since that tells me he is really mad just not wanting to show it.

Cotto wins big in front on his fans, KO in his best proformance in years, sending that fraud back to the hospital.

cd2010: Nice post, but the only thing I can say for Margarito is he that he is a very mentally tough guy with a relentless focus. That is why I was surprised that a man with such mental strength would use poor judgement and allow his corner to manipulate what he did. Any boxers knows how padded or plastered a glove becomes or is, so he knew at some point. How long did he use it... probably since he got on a KO streak. Manny destroyed him and he never quit. Cotto is a warrior also, but he makes his own decisions like when he changed his corner around with family for other family... that takes some courage. I think Cotto will win 8-4 rounds or so, and proved that only Manny could take him out. He went punch-for-punch with Mosley... Margarito hit the deck!!!

I see Cotto winning a decision. Margarito has been busted up his past few big fights but hes still going to be tough to stop.

Zouk, do you think Margarito used the wraps against Paul Williams, he did come on strong at the end. I remember when Mayweather wouldn't fight Margarito, and when he got caught my friend said "maybe he knew that he was a cheater". Does anyone think Floyd could have known anything? If my memory is correct, I thought Freddie Roach said that he broke some facial bones in sparring and kicked him out.

Cotto-Margarito 2 will be good while it last, as both fighters want to win for different reasons and their whole career comes down to this fight. Win and make more money or lose and nobody will remember your name in a couple of years. Old Mosley KO'd him and Cotto wants to impress his fans, he will go for the KO, as that will over turn the prevous lose in his mind (Bob Arum then gets to milk some more mismatches against Cotto till a "superfight" (young champion to pass the torch) Whoever loses career is probably over right? Atleast PPV or HBO.

Mayweather has difficulty with taller fighter due to his protective style. I know top fighters were noticing after four rounds they stated the punches seemed harder vs Margarito. Margarito is a machine and I give him credit as he is relentless and tough, but he used bad judgement that endangers lives... if an olympic sprinter used steroids to win it's unfair but he's not endanger the lives of others. I think he used wraps for most fights as if you watch closely, he throws punches that aren't fast or sharp and early don't seem effective but as he lands they start doing severe damage. Paul Williams just overwhelmed him then as usual Margarito has great endurance as so does Williams, so Williams might have been staying away due to more effective punches. Also, Williams is intelligent where he can change styles if need be (like against Verno) but he opted to avoid Margarito after round eight.
    Article from November 13th, 2010 in the New York Times...
[Roach said he picked one fighter whom he declined to name but who generally paid little attention to the wrapping process. One day, before training, Roach added plaster and said nothing. “As soon as he closed his hand, he knew,” Roach said. “He could feel it.”]
   Anyone that has been a boxer with wraps knows the feeling because as a fighter you adjust the way you prefer to be wrapped and it is one of the most intricate things as often fighters re-wrap their hands (several times too) because they don't like the feel immediately. Now you add a substance that is mild but hardens, if you didn't know it during a big fight in the dressing rooms due to anxiousness or whatever, when you begin fighting when you punch and it lands, YOU KNOW. Boxer's who deny this are LIARS. The average person say where's gloves (for winter, work, etc..) consistently and then one day you add a substance that hardens the glove... you will feel it before you touch anything just by bending your fingers. I think my other post and other people know enough now about it. Back to the fight itself.
    Besides for the right hook (connected shoulder to head) and the left half hook-uppercut (to body and between the gloves to the head), Margarito was chasing Cotto with arm punches. So it doesn't take much to wonder why early on when Margarito uses leverage punches that land clean but don't do a quarter of the damage his mid-to-late round arm punches do that land and are between a clean and glancing blow, but cause cuts and fighters to go down. Mosley's trainer Naazim Richardson noticed this on video footage and surprised Margarito's corner by making them re-wrap just before the fight. That also adds a major psychological element... if you know that the longer the fight goes that your punches will be stronger, you have more encouragement to fight relentless... but now you find out that advantage is gone minutes before a fight. After taking shots he had from other fighters, he went down for a KO. Also, Mosley's style of a pure counter puncher with speed was perfect for an upset (in the public's eyes) as Margarito never faced a fighter with that style, speed or experience.
   Floyd would not have fought Margarito even if he didn't suspect any cheating. Floyd is gifted physically and a natural instinctive fighter, but he is caution first and against a fighter who makes you fight, Mayweather would prefer it be a fighter who wasn't taller with a bigger reach and also a naturally bigger man. Although Margarito is way to slow to hit Floyd, at some point Floyd has to step in a throw and when he does Margarito throws every angle punch like Williams. It would have been very boring to watch as Mayweather would pop shot him and win 10 rounds minimum. Against Paul Williams Mayweather would run into difficulties, but Williams hunches so it would be easier for Mayweather to land a big shot if he wanted to. If Williams fought tall and kept jabbing, that is where Floyd would have problems as Williams had speed enough to fire again. That's about my take on the situation with wraps with Margarito, Williams, Cotto and Mayweather.

As stated, Mosley's fast counter punches were a style disadvantage for Margarito. Cotto is not a counter-puncher and doesn't have Mosley's hand speed. I go back to what I said and this is a rare case where the first fight match-up style is not as relevant as what they have accomplished since.
    "Three years later and Margarito took 2 severe beatings from Mosley and Pacqiuao, and has 1 win by decision since. Cotto took a beating from Pacqiuao and had a war with Clottey. Cotto also has had 3 KOs against decent competition with a questionable decision win over Clottey. Cotto the more active, and what impresses me is the late TKO against Yuri in round 9 and in round 12 against Mayorga. Margarito hung in while taking a beating from Manny when I felt the fight should have been stopped because Margarito's eye was so bad and he wasn't doing any damage to show the fight should continue".
  Cotto will fight similar to before and use his boxing skill and land the clean crisp shots and engage when he wants with movement. I don't think as many others do that Cotto wants revenge and will go outside his norm and fight any different. Cotto as we know has a very serious mentality about things and stays even keel in many emotional situations. I understand the monumental effect having your first loss and then find out it may have been due to cheating of a dangerous nature. I only seriously watch fight footage, post fight comments and weigh-ins. The things like press conference, HBO 24/7, etc... to me it's all hype and every fight they find an angle to make the fight seem to be in the makings of great upsets or closely matched opponents, but this is ticket sales. If you have 2 great fighters that really want to fight the very best and win (ego, pride, family, tradition, history, or whatever the motive is, it is genuinely there), you don't need hype to sell it as fans will buy it. Unfortunately, average fans (not boxing followers) really don't know the real great fighters and why they are, they just follow the media and the outcome. If you need HBO 24/7, several media outlets, the harder and more they advertise, 90% are mismatches and need to be shown the smoke and mirrors. I never stated that the fight wouldn't be entertaining, just usually not what they advertise you to think. Example, I explained to the average PPV fan that knows only what they advertise about boxing, that if they ordered the Trinidad vs De La Hoya (or planned watching it), that regardless of them both being great undefeated action fighters, that it would be a boring fight for the average person. I showed that Oscar wouldn't engage Tito enough because Tito had dangerous one punch KO power, and Oscar back then was still effective but not one-punch. That fact shows that the dynamic of the fight will be very few action moments. Many of my friends wondered why I was going out and not staying in to watch Mayweather-Marquez... as I told them that there would be decent action but once Floyd realized that trying to KO Marquez was futile, he would dominate a one-sided fight lacking anything near even competition. Back to Oscar-Tito, besides for the KO power Tito had, both were undefeated superstars with great talent and ability, so although it would be a close competitive fight, boring was the word.
   Cotto even though they say he 'hates" Margarito is not a vengeance type personality even though Margarito may have cheated (I still will give Margarito the word alleged) and not only physically hurt Cotto and could have killed him, the manner in the way he dominated Margarito then lost severely is traumatic even to a fighter. Even though he was KO'd by Manny, he still fought with heart of discipline and he didn't seem psychologically effected from the Margarito loss.
    Careers: Your statement is somewhat correct but it depends not only on win or loss but mainly if they were competitive or destroyed. In my italics above I showed that Cotto besides losing to Manny, won several decents KOs over solid opponents and won a split-decision in a war versus Clottey (despite the fact Clottey hurt his knee and had leverage problems). Cotto suffered a major cut in round three from an unintentional headbutt. Most fighters would have taken a No Contest but this was less than a year after the Margarito fight where people called Cotto a quitter, he continued the fight despite the problems during the fight with it and the dangers of permanent damage as well. I feel Cotto wants to fight, doesn't get over-emotional, and brings his game always! Margarito took two severe beat-downs and won one decision fight since Cotto. If Margarito loses convincingly or worse, it maybe hard for him to return to the spot-light. Cotto on the other hand has shown consistent performance and a close loss on a decision will make for a big pay Trilogy. If Cotto loses severely, I'm sure he will talk it over with his family, corner and promoter.
   Margarito after the alleged wraps, then the relentless machine becomes human and gets demolished in two fights and wins a decision over average competition. He has to really be impressive as he has proved nothing since (except taking a beating without quitting against Manny, which I felt his corner was foolish and didn't protect him).
   Also, you have to consider the current level of competition in their respected weight-class. At the light-middleweight class, currently it lacks superstar quality (for those that are natural 154lbs and not coming from another weight-class). Cotto despite his current success moving past welterweight, I always felt he was a small welterweight but he was a strong puncher and had enough to establish himself there. Currently the top fighters people consider in that weight are Canelo (just KOd Kermit) and a few others. No one at that weight has yet to fight and prove they are the dominant star of that weight and a lbs-for-lbs consideration.
   Their situation is now a catch-22. Regardless of how well they perform, or the outcome, they won't get big paydays at that weight unless someone moves up or down. Cotto at 31 had three monster ring wars that are the type that slow you down, and worse they were all in just over a years time, but has shown success recently. Margarito at 33 took two severe beatings in less than two years but also only had one other fight verse an average opponent where he won a decision.
   To me, I think people would be watching a classic by seeing Chavez Jr vs Margarito only if they knew how great it would be. Cotto against Canelo would be great as well. The only problem is Cotto isn't as big and strong, but Canelo had yet to fight any real opponent until he fought Kermit and would definitely be at a boxing disadvantage but the strength and age factor would be on his side to make it closer. Those two fights would make boxing classics and possibly turn into rematches or possible trilogies. Those fights make more sense and by fighting each other the loser (if dominated) may consider retirement. If Cotto fights Canelo and Margarito fights Chavez Jr, even if they lose but make it somewhat competitive and entertaining, those match-ups allow a win/win scenario for boxers, promoters and fans.

Never thought about Margarito vs Chavez, Chavez wins right, I think Margarito is shot (not just because of the 2 beatings, ring rust and hand wrap scandal, but because he lost the advantage of "slow start" and land hard punches to the body and wear them down is over) Cotto finishes him, don't think Cotto hasn't prepared for this fight BIG TIME, changing trainers, watching the 1st fight, Mosley and Pacquiao. Cotto wins, he should not fight Canelo (too big, too strong, too young), I'd rather see Cotto vs. Chavez, Cotto probably wins by dec.

Why not Canelo vs Martinez?

Martinez too fast. Canelo average speed... in those scenario's you need experience. Too early for Canelo.

Here is the problem... Chavez has fought perfect fighters for his style it makes him look better than he is. They are both similar and if Margarito still has stamina then it would make a great battle. Chavez might be the first to slow Margarito with body shots... as they will trade punches. Margarito has fought the best... Chavez just no chance victims!

Cotto wins this by decision... don't bet KO unless you think swelling, cuts or his bad eye has a fair chance to stop it. Cotto was +130 to win by dec. I normally don't bet these types as I tell people anything can stop a fight early... like ortiz-mayweather (he would have KOd him by 9 anyway)....Hopkins hopping Dawson and THE END...etc.
C'mon... Golota had Bowe beat twice easily but he was so tired his punches landed low for two DQs instead of two big victories!

Mosley didn't really beat Margarito with counter punches. He was pretty much just throwing haymakers and landing at will. HE definitely couldn't handle Mosley's speed and no one has ever really fought Margarito that way. Usually people are boxing or moving backwards which takes the power out of your punches. Margarito could have also been distracted considering he just got caught trying to put illegal wraps in his gloves.

Also that guy was right.. Once a quitter, always a quitter.. Cotto looked pudgy in the midsection, not good vs a devastating body puncher.. Cotto has looked less than impressive vs A and B fighters..

My earlier posts I state I judge the weigh-in closely on fights like these. For instance Marquez-Vasquez IV, the weigh-in showed why Marquez opened -150 as Vasquez was out of shape and looked unmotivated. Unfortunately, the smaller guys give it all and have to fight knowing they will take a beating but never got the paydays they deserve. The heavyweights and over-rated big payday fighters usually squander tens to hundreds of millions.... and the little guys fight wishing to get 250k. Marquez didn't make a payday until late in his ongoing career (I think 850k).

Cotto didn't quit, he was badly hurt (out on his feet) by a guy who was cheating to win, Cotto was giving him a boxing lesson until the body shots started to take his stamina away, his only other loss was to Manny, so I don't see how he is over rated, he beat everyone his POS promoter put in front of him at 140, moved up to 147 and didn't lose til Margacheato beat him. Yeah he's not Floyd Mayweather but, atleast he had the balls to fight him. He's 36-2 29 KO's and fighting at too high of a weight, BTW Mayweather dodged him for years.

Cotto by decision... Margarito just looks like a fighter that had nothing left after Mosley battered him around.....

cd & jamie... I agree. I will watch the weigh-in closely and as I am currently not in vegas but I will have some info not widely spread. It maybe regarding the last week preparations and last few sparring sessions, but I want to see how they look physically and mentally.

Also, when you know your punches are going to get harder, it inspires a fighter to stay and battle... so is it coincidence that Mosley destroyed him as he took away any physical and mental advantages. Now, Manny is a stronger puncher than Mosley and pounded him for 12 rounds and wanted them to stop it. In my opinion Margarito was KOd by Mosley because he was physically and mentally beat (last minute surprise by taking away his lethal weapon definitely takes the heart out of a person). Now he realized after he had no more special wraps and had to go into the fight mentally prepared versus Manny knowing he might take a beating and not get better in late rounds...and that's what happened.
   "Once you take the spirit out of a warrior, he has lost before the battle!" ~ Ancient quote
   Sun Tzu: stated the best way to train an army is a common motivation to fight, and they will never tire! "...this sow dissention between the ruler and his ministers"! Same as causing doubt in a fighter's mind, or in his corner. Floyd Jr even though on 24/7 they show family fighting with father and son, Floyd never left Roger. His father-son feud has been going on forever and is nothing new to distract him.

Is Mexico proud or embarrassed? LOL - WE KNOW

See, I stated both had more to lose than win, and this is the reason. If Margarito won, people who say the same. Fact... Margarito was never nothing except a great chin with great stamina... that's far from being a boxer! lol

Christ you're horrible at this. Who do you like for Pac/Floyd?

marnypoly: You referring to me? or Jerseyboy89 or another?

If they fight before years end, I've liked Floyd since they considered it which seems like a decade. I want the details, but most likely if Floyd can't get the exact catch-weight, gloves, ringside, date, ... maybe he will use astrology reports also.

There aren't many specifics yet, just May 5th, 2012 as a date. There will be an interesting condition for the fight. Don't be surprised if Floyd changes what many people think will be 147lbs Welterweight match, becomes a light-middleweight fight or a catch-weight of 152lbs. Besides it being a psychological factor (favoring Mayweather), it allows him to be bigger in stature as Manny will unlikely be over 147lbs. As many people think it would hurt Mayweather's hand speed, it would be more detrimental to Manny if he gained more weight. The reason is more than hand speed. Floyd gets an advantage if Manny gains weight as it will only slow his hand speed down and possibly effect his stamina, and not add any benefit (or minimal) to punching power. If Manny stays lower thus giving Floyd a 5-8lbs, don' think it will slow Mayweather's hand speed the same way. Floyd anticipates and uses reflexes, thus his hand speed can suffer a small loss if it happens. Manny uses an attack style and doesn't rely on anticipation and reflex countering as Floyd does. Besides natural hand speed (how fast a fighters punch goes from guard to target), adding surprise (anticipation) allows a fighter to have slower hand speed but appears quicker.
   Floyd is a master of anticipation, and even if he wasn't athletically gifted he still will be a good fighter. If you strip Manny of his athleticism, he rarely would win. Marquez timed him and had a better overall strategy and never needed to adjust as Manny didn't adjust to being timed and measured.
   Don't get me wrong, I have great disappointment for Floyd as he takes money fights and few risks other than if he got hit by lightning during a fight. Many fighters have done this and yes it's a business. Unlike so many others, Floyd has ability very few ever had and it's a shame having such talent that's never put to the test. Only Oscar (surprised me) gave him slight difficulty being the reach and jab.

Why would I be talking to you? You didn't create this thread