Posted:
#26
Above post....wrong spot.
JC SuperStar JR
Posted:
#29
Sr was great technically, and although he fought some serious wars, he had the ability to avoid punches that appeared to land flush and full power. Jr doesn't have the technical ability and it's a matter of time before his body (or his brain tells his body) says "No Mas".
I like watching Jr as he brings that "it's war time" mentality!
I like watching Jr as he brings that "it's war time" mentality!
Posted:
#31
DeHoyos: The 89-0 is a misleading stat that is taken out of context. You should include that draw, otherwise I can make this statement to be as true...
Sugar Ray Robinson 91-0, which many claim. He did achieve this in great fashion but had 2 draws and 1 NC with in that period.
I could even alter the the facts and show a more remarkable statistic...
Sugar Ray Robinson fought 85 amateur bouts and won them all. He went 85-0, and 69 fights he won by knockout giving him an amateur KO percentage of 81% (which is an incredible stat due to the fact that amateur bouts and records show a more than half drop in KO wins; it is somewhere around half taking in to account many boxers and their careers). Also, 40 fights were won by 1st round knockouts! Not a bad start for the amateur.
He then won his first 40 pro bouts before losing a decision to LaMotta on February 5th, 1943 (not even to mention the size differential between the two fighters as Robinson was a natural welterweight and LaMotta was more a super-middleweight at the time. He was 16lbs heavier in their first bout). Just two weeks later on February 19th (yes it was 1943, as if I was talking about fighters today it would be more like 1944) he beat Jackie Wilson. Simply stated that after the initial loss to LaMotta (and his first loss ever) he had a huge layoff of thirteen days, then beating Wilson. He then didn't want such a huge layoff again, so he took six days to himself, and On The Seventh Day.. He fought and Won.
He went nearly a decade (8 more years) without a loss. I will go on to make a bold statement and re-write or modify history.
Assuming that February 5th, 1943 was a day that was not a boxing loss for Robinson, it is very easy to tabulate his historical re-write...
(the nearly true, but altered fiction, simply because the real truth was impressive enough, but I wanted to have a little fun(
For a dozen years (amateur and pro), Sugar Ray Robinson failed to lose a single bout. His amateur and professional career shined a statistic of 213 WINS (85 Amateur & 128 Pro) with 153 by knockout (averaging 72% wins by KO) and 0 LOSSES (Zero defeats). Besides all the Championship fighters he fought and beat I prefer to keep it simple and use smaller numbers as you have noticed we are quickly running out of room to write as Robinson's stats are not single and double digit like most fighters, but triple digit numbers. Robinson faced and beat 10 Hall of Fame fighters and fought them a total of 27 different fights... so besides Championship bouts, he had TWENTY-SEVEN Hall of Fame Bouts. The above statement was not a typo, and it is possible I am wrong on the exact figure... but even if you give or take a few, it doesn't change much to that figure!
The above information is nearly all accurate truth. If you were doing truth from fiction in a statistical manner, it would account for less than a half a percent. I changed that stats on one bout. If you are comparing stats like NFL (with only 16 regular season games) to MLB (with 162 regular season games), then each NFL regular season game is roughly ten times more important than one MLB regular season game. yes the number doesn't account for many factors, but I was making a similar point. Fighters today, especially the top 10 most popular fight roughly 3 times in two years, and upcoming fighters start off fighting once a month or 5 to 10 bouts a year to start, then they slowdown as they move up in class and pick good fights for them. During the time Robinson fought, they had to fight constantly, and had to fight the best fighters around several times because back them the people demanded and were heard, and promoters responded. Now it is the opposite. You get trash fights, more hype, just as much controversy and cheating as ever, and fighters like Manny Pacquiao fight so infrequently they are involved in so many other things besides boxing and begin to lose that fire. They seem to get longevity, but all the old-time greats fought late in age and were competitive, so it is not as huge a gap some consider it to be. Don't forget that the old-timers fought from young,prime,former champion veteran and even over the hill, and doing this consistently against the best and fighting as much as possible.
Robinson was 128-1-2 with 84 wins by knockout up until July 7th, 1951.
Sugar Ray Robinson 91-0, which many claim. He did achieve this in great fashion but had 2 draws and 1 NC with in that period.
I could even alter the the facts and show a more remarkable statistic...
Sugar Ray Robinson fought 85 amateur bouts and won them all. He went 85-0, and 69 fights he won by knockout giving him an amateur KO percentage of 81% (which is an incredible stat due to the fact that amateur bouts and records show a more than half drop in KO wins; it is somewhere around half taking in to account many boxers and their careers). Also, 40 fights were won by 1st round knockouts! Not a bad start for the amateur.
He then won his first 40 pro bouts before losing a decision to LaMotta on February 5th, 1943 (not even to mention the size differential between the two fighters as Robinson was a natural welterweight and LaMotta was more a super-middleweight at the time. He was 16lbs heavier in their first bout). Just two weeks later on February 19th (yes it was 1943, as if I was talking about fighters today it would be more like 1944) he beat Jackie Wilson. Simply stated that after the initial loss to LaMotta (and his first loss ever) he had a huge layoff of thirteen days, then beating Wilson. He then didn't want such a huge layoff again, so he took six days to himself, and On The Seventh Day.. He fought and Won.
He went nearly a decade (8 more years) without a loss. I will go on to make a bold statement and re-write or modify history.
Assuming that February 5th, 1943 was a day that was not a boxing loss for Robinson, it is very easy to tabulate his historical re-write...
(the nearly true, but altered fiction, simply because the real truth was impressive enough, but I wanted to have a little fun(
For a dozen years (amateur and pro), Sugar Ray Robinson failed to lose a single bout. His amateur and professional career shined a statistic of 213 WINS (85 Amateur & 128 Pro) with 153 by knockout (averaging 72% wins by KO) and 0 LOSSES (Zero defeats). Besides all the Championship fighters he fought and beat I prefer to keep it simple and use smaller numbers as you have noticed we are quickly running out of room to write as Robinson's stats are not single and double digit like most fighters, but triple digit numbers. Robinson faced and beat 10 Hall of Fame fighters and fought them a total of 27 different fights... so besides Championship bouts, he had TWENTY-SEVEN Hall of Fame Bouts. The above statement was not a typo, and it is possible I am wrong on the exact figure... but even if you give or take a few, it doesn't change much to that figure!
The above information is nearly all accurate truth. If you were doing truth from fiction in a statistical manner, it would account for less than a half a percent. I changed that stats on one bout. If you are comparing stats like NFL (with only 16 regular season games) to MLB (with 162 regular season games), then each NFL regular season game is roughly ten times more important than one MLB regular season game. yes the number doesn't account for many factors, but I was making a similar point. Fighters today, especially the top 10 most popular fight roughly 3 times in two years, and upcoming fighters start off fighting once a month or 5 to 10 bouts a year to start, then they slowdown as they move up in class and pick good fights for them. During the time Robinson fought, they had to fight constantly, and had to fight the best fighters around several times because back them the people demanded and were heard, and promoters responded. Now it is the opposite. You get trash fights, more hype, just as much controversy and cheating as ever, and fighters like Manny Pacquiao fight so infrequently they are involved in so many other things besides boxing and begin to lose that fire. They seem to get longevity, but all the old-time greats fought late in age and were competitive, so it is not as huge a gap some consider it to be. Don't forget that the old-timers fought from young,prime,former champion veteran and even over the hill, and doing this consistently against the best and fighting as much as possible.
Robinson was 128-1-2 with 84 wins by knockout up until July 7th, 1951.
Posted:
#32
I'm not knocking JCC down, but making a point. As far as his son, JCC Jr, does in his career depends on his development. JCC was experienced and polished the first time you seen him fight in the U.S.
Also, I know you claim Mayweather is not undefeated (I could agree if Castillo destroyed him), but any fight that is competitive can be judged accordingly.
Chavez was 68-0 when he fought Meldrick Taylor. Steele was known for stopping some very questionable fights, and very coincidentally they were all in favor of Don Kings fighters. Do you believe Chavez won that bout, or was Meldrick robbed? If Meldrick was robbed, Chavez would be 68-0, then 68-1. It is very sticky for you to call out Mayweather, especially when he re-matched and won a UD again.
If Chavez and his corner believe he won, why didn't they rematch right away? Instead, they fought..
Akwei Addo 5-3 in Spain...
Russell Mosley 4-3 in Mexico...
Jaime Balboa 44-12 in Mexico...?
Do you think an immediate rematch would have been called if Chavez lost?
Also, I know you claim Mayweather is not undefeated (I could agree if Castillo destroyed him), but any fight that is competitive can be judged accordingly.
Chavez was 68-0 when he fought Meldrick Taylor. Steele was known for stopping some very questionable fights, and very coincidentally they were all in favor of Don Kings fighters. Do you believe Chavez won that bout, or was Meldrick robbed? If Meldrick was robbed, Chavez would be 68-0, then 68-1. It is very sticky for you to call out Mayweather, especially when he re-matched and won a UD again.
If Chavez and his corner believe he won, why didn't they rematch right away? Instead, they fought..
Akwei Addo 5-3 in Spain...
Russell Mosley 4-3 in Mexico...
Jaime Balboa 44-12 in Mexico...?
Do you think an immediate rematch would have been called if Chavez lost?
Posted:
#35
Quote Originally Posted by ZOUK:
cd2010: "Chavez Sr > Mayweather Jr" was that just a reply for the ongoing thread or your assessment?
Chavez Senior was old school and like old school mentality is... "to be the best, you have to consistently beat the best"
Mayweather is a common fighter who picked his spots easily and Mayweather got people to love or hate him. A lesson the WWE taught him. People pay to see him dominate, or get his $SS Whipped.
Chavez fought to destroy.
I'd disagree Chavez Sr was greater than Mayweather Jr., even though Floyd is all about the money. Floyd has been a boxer is whole life. I listed maybe a dozen fighters in several past threads he should and could have fought, be opted to play it safe.
cd2010: "Chavez Sr > Mayweather Jr" was that just a reply for the ongoing thread or your assessment?
Chavez Senior was old school and like old school mentality is... "to be the best, you have to consistently beat the best"
Mayweather is a common fighter who picked his spots easily and Mayweather got people to love or hate him. A lesson the WWE taught him. People pay to see him dominate, or get his $SS Whipped.
Chavez fought to destroy.
I'd disagree Chavez Sr was greater than Mayweather Jr., even though Floyd is all about the money. Floyd has been a boxer is whole life. I listed maybe a dozen fighters in several past threads he should and could have fought, be opted to play it safe.
ZOUK your an idiot.....
Posted:
#36
3 Months later you reply. Are you in a time warp...lol! BTW- Your quote about JCC Jr saying he doesn't want to be the son of JCC, I want to be the new Julio Cesar Chavez. He copied Mayweather who said that over a year ago regarding that he is not Floyd Mayweather Jr... he is Floyd Mayweather... period.
Also, you consistency to wait 3 months to reply to posts or conversations we had is a fact that you have serious problems. Either you stalk and wait 1 minute, or months later.
Also, you said JCC Jr could break all his fathers records... LOL. His father beat up tomato cans half his life so he more or less manufactured a large winning record. As for his son, he takes on who ever is best regardless.
Also, you consistency to wait 3 months to reply to posts or conversations we had is a fact that you have serious problems. Either you stalk and wait 1 minute, or months later.
Also, you said JCC Jr could break all his fathers records... LOL. His father beat up tomato cans half his life so he more or less manufactured a large winning record. As for his son, he takes on who ever is best regardless.
Posted:
#37
Quote Originally Posted by ZOUK:
3 Months later you reply. Are you in a time warp...lol!
3 Months later you reply. Are you in a time warp...lol!
No, its that I dont read half the nonsense u type on here...but since Ive found out that youve been filing complaints to Covers-Team about me, I decided to read the bull**** you had written previously.....
flake
Posted:
#42
"Robinson was 128-1-2 with 84 wins by knockout up until July 7th, 1951." ZOUKIE
He's the only one that had a better record than Julio.....but Julio still has more title fights,more title fight victories/defenses,more title fights won by KO and he defeated more world champions...."You never got me down Ray, you never got me down." Jake.... Plus Chavez had never even been knocked down goin into his 90th fight.......
Posted:
#43
Ragin Bull was GREAT!!! Gotta love when Jake goes down stairs when his brother and family are eating dinner and Jake's wife flipped and said she sucked his brother and etc... and he went down and beat the Fuk out of him.
Chavez wasn't forced out of welterweight because he was so good. Chavez's greatest and most dominating years weren't filmed.
Robinson rematched and defeated every fighter who beat him. He fought LaMotta, lost, fought another great opponent and won, rematched Lamotta within 21 days (that's 3 fights) he beat him despite the size differential. No one comes close to the real Sugar with wins, dominance, consistency...etc. People forgot he mentally lost passion after he had dreams off killing his next opponent. After wanting the delaying the of the fight, finally he was influenced to fight... and he killed the guy.
Remember the fact that with mob betting that many fighters had to throw fights and losses before a title show. Now, take the fact how hard it was for black fighters!
You saw the list of HOF fighters Robinson fought and several times and won in dominant fashion, as Chavez never faced the likes of such talent.
The idea a certain guy has the greatest chin ever is stupid. Either they have phenomenal, great, good, average, bad or a glass jaw or china chin.
Chavez wasn't forced out of welterweight because he was so good. Chavez's greatest and most dominating years weren't filmed.
Robinson rematched and defeated every fighter who beat him. He fought LaMotta, lost, fought another great opponent and won, rematched Lamotta within 21 days (that's 3 fights) he beat him despite the size differential. No one comes close to the real Sugar with wins, dominance, consistency...etc. People forgot he mentally lost passion after he had dreams off killing his next opponent. After wanting the delaying the of the fight, finally he was influenced to fight... and he killed the guy.
Remember the fact that with mob betting that many fighters had to throw fights and losses before a title show. Now, take the fact how hard it was for black fighters!
You saw the list of HOF fighters Robinson fought and several times and won in dominant fashion, as Chavez never faced the likes of such talent.
The idea a certain guy has the greatest chin ever is stupid. Either they have phenomenal, great, good, average, bad or a glass jaw or china chin.
Posted:
#44
Quote Originally Posted by DeHoyos:
Its either Julio or no play imo....
Apparently you see something in the fight that is technical (not that he is Mexican) and therefore you found something in your handicapping. If that's the case, and you like Julio it's +180. If you don't like him, -200 is a small favorite and you should be betting Sergio. If the odds were +300/-400 then that is a huge differential.
Posted:
#45
Your bias towards anyone related to Chavez, from his hometown or with that name... get's you all amped!
When Sweat Pea gives you a boxing clinic and Oscar dismantles your grill... TWICE, and Randall gave you more than you can handle, and you won a cheated fight when Taylor won the fight but got the life beat out of him, don't ever consider such a fighter a top 10 lbs-for-lbs.
Chavez's strong points: Great chin, excellent use of head to body punching ratio that physically would break opponents down, over-achiever as his hand speed was average but he was a technical master and he fought using a very important concept, and maybe was the best at doing this... he never threw a punch that didn't have a purpose (basically, it was though like a chess game and not a reaction to his opponent but a proactive process. As the main function and source of all matter in energy, he was able to use his precisely.
When training fighters I used many fighters for different reasons, but it is hard to show a new fighter a Roy Jones Jr 90s fight and tell him to do certain things because Roy was a natural freak. I showed film of fighter with great technique, fundamentals and fighters who properly showed how to cut off a ring, using head and body combos then switching thus confusing his opponent. Also, using his jab 1/3 of the time to do damage and cause fighters to reset (defensive as well), 1/3 of the time to set up distance measured punches, and a final 1/3 to slip in and get inside and back his opponent toward the ropes and allow him to rip 4-5 punch combo's.
That is the type of film you use as a teaching tutorial. I used about a dozen fighters, but Chavez and two others over half the film time.
When Sweat Pea gives you a boxing clinic and Oscar dismantles your grill... TWICE, and Randall gave you more than you can handle, and you won a cheated fight when Taylor won the fight but got the life beat out of him, don't ever consider such a fighter a top 10 lbs-for-lbs.
Chavez's strong points: Great chin, excellent use of head to body punching ratio that physically would break opponents down, over-achiever as his hand speed was average but he was a technical master and he fought using a very important concept, and maybe was the best at doing this... he never threw a punch that didn't have a purpose (basically, it was though like a chess game and not a reaction to his opponent but a proactive process. As the main function and source of all matter in energy, he was able to use his precisely.
When training fighters I used many fighters for different reasons, but it is hard to show a new fighter a Roy Jones Jr 90s fight and tell him to do certain things because Roy was a natural freak. I showed film of fighter with great technique, fundamentals and fighters who properly showed how to cut off a ring, using head and body combos then switching thus confusing his opponent. Also, using his jab 1/3 of the time to do damage and cause fighters to reset (defensive as well), 1/3 of the time to set up distance measured punches, and a final 1/3 to slip in and get inside and back his opponent toward the ropes and allow him to rip 4-5 punch combo's.
That is the type of film you use as a teaching tutorial. I used about a dozen fighters, but Chavez and two others over half the film time.
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