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Author: [MLB Betting] Topic: Mark Grace Deserves Hall Consideration...
JakeLake720 send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
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#1
Posted: 2/11/2009 6:11:21 PM
Call me a homer or whatever you want....This guy had the most hits in the 90s and did it the right way. Never had great power numbers, but was a hell of a contact hitter and a great defensive first basemen. I feel he should get more consideration based upon the fact that he did this during the steroid era....at the very least he should get some votes...he might have been the best defensive first basemen of the decade as well...the only thing you can knock him on is his lack of power and the fact he never was on a winning team....
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#2
Posted: 2/11/2009 6:51:06 PM

He was not a hall of famer. he was a good hitter that hit for average

If you think he is a hall of famer then you need to wait until Keith Hernandez gets in because Hernandez was better than Garce was at the plate and in the field and he isnt in the Hall of Fame + he won
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#3
Posted: 2/11/2009 6:56:34 PM
homer
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#4
Posted: 2/11/2009 6:57:17 PM
.303 career average
 
.383 On Base Percentage
 
173 Home Runs
 
1,146 Runs Batted In (160th All-Time)
 
2,445 Hits (103rd All-Time)
 
1,179 Runs (181st All-Time)
 
511 Doubles (39th All-Time)
 
1,754 Hits in the 90s ranks as the most in the decade
 
364 Doubles in the 90s ranks as the most in the decade
 
73 Sacrifice Flies in the 90s ranks as the most in the decade
 
Hit for the cycle on May 9th, 1993
 
3-time All-Star
 
1-time World Series Champion
 
4-time Gold Glove winner
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#5
Posted: 2/11/2009 7:14:23 PM
The guy wasnt much better than Sean Casey.
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#6
Posted: 2/11/2009 10:28:28 PM
 hmm...
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#7
Posted: 2/12/2009 2:20:10 PM
Less than 2500 hits and 200 HR for a 1st baseman.... NO chance at the HOF.

Never had 100 RBIs in a season and never 200 hits in a season.

He is a very good ball player and great component to a winning team but not HOF worthy.
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#8
Posted: 2/12/2009 4:27:50 PM
Mattingly
Hernandez
Grace
 
NOT Hall worthy, sorry
 
I was going to give Keith the edge for a great turn in a two-part Seinfeld, but take it back for those dye commercials with Walt Frazier..........
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#9
Posted: 2/12/2009 4:35:30 PM
Will Clark another 1st baseman in a similar category.  The show that Clark and Grace put on respectively  in the '89 divisional was incredible.

It's just too bad that Andre Dawson choked so bad that the Cubs never had a chance.
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#10
Posted: 2/12/2009 4:41:54 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by The Hawk:

Mattingly
Hernandez
Grace
 
NOT Hall worthy, sorry
 
I was going to give Keith the edge for a great turn in a two-part Seinfeld, but take it back for those dye commercials with Walt Frazier..........


Classic

There had to have been a second spitter
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#11
Posted: 2/12/2009 5:53:19 PM
D'oh!
 
Sorry not even close to being a HOF'er.
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#12
Posted: 2/12/2009 9:57:12 PM
back, and to the left.......................back, and to the left..............
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#13
Posted: 2/13/2009 10:53:05 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by AJPierzynski:

The guy wasnt much better than Sean Casey.
everything you say on this site is friggin useless. You know nothing. Shut up
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#14
Posted: 2/13/2009 12:17:36 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Osirus13:

everything you say on this site is friggin useless. You know nothing. Shut up


Average
Casey .302
Grace .303

AB/HR
Casey 38.9
Grace 46.6

AB/RBI
Casey 6.8
Grace 7.0

AB/R
Casey 7.3
Grace 6.8

OBP
Casey .367
Grace .383

Slg%
Casey .447
Grace .442

They also each had a .995 Fielding %
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#15
Posted: 2/13/2009 12:21:59 PM
So what exactly did he do so much better than Casey?

Show me one thing I have said that was wrong and i'll be happy to shutup.
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#16
Posted: 2/13/2009 12:27:38 PM
I love how you say I know nothing and yet you're the one throwing out these classic gems

I still dont hear anything about how steroids makes you that much better anyways.

First of all nothing has been proved dumbass. 1 report.

Mcgwires numbers werent really hof worthy anyways.

Steroids does not make him a better hitter

and what happens when those same pitchers throwing you the ball that you hit out on roids were also on roids? I guess it cancels out.


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#17
Posted: 2/13/2009 12:56:54 PM
Usually, a HOFer, has some hardware. 1 or 2 MVPs, or been in the Top 5 several times.
Considered to be the best player in baseball
Added points for post season excellence
 
Bill James came up with a "formula" in a discussion of Ken Keltner (the 3b that made some great stops on JoeD balls to end his 56-game hitting streak) that could determine what is and isn't a HOFer. Good read-I'd look for that.
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#18
Posted: 2/13/2009 1:57:31 PM
Grace was an excellent 1B, a very good player for a long time, just missing my Hall of Fame. I always liked hiim, and yes, his numbers are very good and look better every day due to these inflated numbers we've been getting from other guys cheating and the 2000s......but I just can't vote for him. LOL I know like my vote counts.
 
I always thought both he and Sandberg were used incorrectly in the lineup. For about a 4 year stretch, even when they should have realized how much power they had in Ryno, they continued to bat him 2nd and Grace 3rd, when it should have been the other way around. Again, once they realized what they had in these two. Not that it really cut into their numbers too much, but ryno's RBI suffered and Grace's ABs suffered slightly. Anyway, back to the subject of....
 
Grace vs Casey....
Interesting argument. I just think Casey was not quite the hitter Grace was. I know their times in the majors were similar, but Grace came ealry enough that his stats started when HUGE numbers weren't coming yet. Oh and come on......Grace has waaay more hits and runs scored, so that's way you have to give him the edge over Casey. Again, Casey was almost as good a player as Grace, as evidenced by the numbers AJ put out there.  But those numbers are mainly averaged stats, they didn't add up to the numbers Grace had. That's where I come out anyway.
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#19
Posted: 2/13/2009 2:03:16 PM
Just for comparison's sake, not to start arguing here lol, but to show what I was talking about....
 
Hits
Casey  1531
Grace   2445

Runs Scored
Casey 690
Grace 1179

RBI
Casey  735
Grace 1146
 
Pretty clear who had the better career there, isn't it?
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#20
Posted: 2/13/2009 2:14:00 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by casheasy:

Grace was an excellent 1B, a very good player for a long time, just missing my Hall of Fame. I always liked hiim, and yes, his numbers are very good and look better every day due to these inflated numbers we've been getting from other guys cheating and the 2000s......but I just can't vote for him. LOL I know like my vote counts.
 
I always thought both he and Sandberg were used incorrectly in the lineup. For about a 4 year stretch, even when they should have realized how much power they had in Ryno, they continued to bat him 2nd and Grace 3rd, when it should have been the other way around. Again, once they realized what they had in these two. Not that it really cut into their numbers too much, but ryno's RBI suffered and Grace's ABs suffered slightly. Anyway, back to the subject of....
 
Grace vs Casey....
Interesting argument. I just think Casey was not quite the hitter Grace was. I know their times in the majors were similar, but Grace came ealry enough that his stats started when HUGE numbers weren't coming yet. Oh and come on......Grace has waaay more hits and runs scored, so that's way you have to give him the edge over Casey. Again, Casey was almost as good a player as Grace, as evidenced by the numbers AJ put out there.  But those numbers are mainly averaged stats, they didn't add up to the numbers Grace had. That's where I come out anyway.


No doubt that Grace was the better player. He's just very overrated and I was just comparing him to a guy like Casey to prove that. Yes, Grace has the much better overall numbers but that comes with 3,000 more at bats (5-6 full years). Grace never broke 100 rbi, never broke 18 hr's, never broke 194 hits, scored 100 runs just once, and all of that coming from playing in a great hitters ballpark in wrigley. Why all the love? He was a good average hitter and a good fielder, but so was Sean Casey.
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#21
Posted: 2/13/2009 2:20:25 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by casheasy:

Just for comparison's sake, not to start arguing here lol, but to show what I was talking about....
 
Hits
Casey  1531
Grace   2445

Runs Scored
Casey 690
Grace 1179

RBI
Casey  735
Grace 1146
 
Pretty clear who had the better career there, isn't it?


3,000 more at bats than Casey, thats why I did AB/Rbi or Runs. If you want to talk about total numbers. Steve Finley had more hits than Grace, JD Drew has a better On Base Percentage than Grace, Mike Cameron has more homeruns than him. Not very impressive numbers in a 16 year career.
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#22
Posted: 2/13/2009 2:24:26 PM
Don Mattingly beats the all and doesnt get votes.
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#23
Posted: 2/13/2009 2:27:53 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by AJPierzynski:

So what exactly did he do so much better than Casey?

Show me one thing I have said that was wrong and i'll be happy to shutup.
because this had nothing to do with sean casey in the 1st place. It was whether or not grace was a hall of famer.  People were giving there reasons and you just throw out a "well he was slightly better then sean casey" Very insightful. I guess you have a ton of respect for grace that you cant give a better reason. Yes i still dont think steroids make you hit 330 or anything. I know they lessen the risk of injury, or at least help you recover better. Those guys are very good hitters regardless. If they took them then there mistake but they DIDNT need them
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#24
Posted: 2/13/2009 2:29:23 PM
Mark Grace for Hall of Fame is this thread a joke?
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#25
Posted: 2/13/2009 2:44:39 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Osirus13:

because this had nothing to do with sean casey in the 1st place. It was whether or not grace was a hall of famer.  People were giving there reasons and you just throw out a "well he was slightly better then sean casey" Very insightful. I guess you have a ton of respect for grace that you cant give a better reason. Yes i still dont think steroids make you hit 330 or anything. I know they lessen the risk of injury, or at least help you recover better. Those guys are very good hitters regardless. If they took them then there mistake but they DIDNT need them



Unless you consider Casey a hall of famer, I dont think I had to say more than that to make my point.

Steroids make you better or you wouldnt have hundreds of players testing positive. You wouldnt have Brady Anderson  go from never hitting more than 22 homeruns to all of a sudden hitting 50 homeruns. You wouldnt have Barry Bonds go from never hitting 50 homeruns to all of a sudden hitting 73 and having his prime years in his late 30's. You wouldnt have Sammy Sosa go from never hitting more than 40 homeruns to hitting 60+ homeruns in 3 out of 4 years. Why cant you understand that? Keep calling me a dumbass but continue to spew your stupidity.
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