The real problem is the price of oil. If oil was 20$ per barrel, problem solved across the board.
We've already lived thru more inflation then we could have imagined. Energy and housing have both more then tripled in the last 15 years. With stagnant wages. That money comes from somewhere. it goes somewhere too
Welcome to post peak oil
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The real problem is the price of oil. If oil was 20$ per barrel, problem solved across the board.
We've already lived thru more inflation then we could have imagined. Energy and housing have both more then tripled in the last 15 years. With stagnant wages. That money comes from somewhere. it goes somewhere too
Cheap labor is the main reason corporations move overseas. That is true. An example would be Ralph Lauren Polo. A regular golf polo shirt cost about $50-$60. How much would that shirt cost if it were manufactured here? Don't you think clothing or any other product made overseas saves the customer money?
As far as tax reasons: I can't think of a company moving overseas for tax reasons but I know of companies that open manufacturing plants in tax friendly states. Remember the thread about VW opening up the plant in Chatanooga, TN? Do you think they even considered a state like California or New York? How about Boeing wanting to move out of Washington State and into South Carolina because South Carolina is a right to work state? There are numerous examples of that.
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Cheap labor is the main reason corporations move overseas. That is true. An example would be Ralph Lauren Polo. A regular golf polo shirt cost about $50-$60. How much would that shirt cost if it were manufactured here? Don't you think clothing or any other product made overseas saves the customer money?
As far as tax reasons: I can't think of a company moving overseas for tax reasons but I know of companies that open manufacturing plants in tax friendly states. Remember the thread about VW opening up the plant in Chatanooga, TN? Do you think they even considered a state like California or New York? How about Boeing wanting to move out of Washington State and into South Carolina because South Carolina is a right to work state? There are numerous examples of that.
Do you understand why post 29 is so much better in terms of generating discussion than the other post? It was articulate, and accurate.
As to your first portion, of course it saves us money. Yet, it costs us money too. It is the Walmart truism. I cannot fault a family for shopping and saving at Walmart, yet everytime they do so, it hurts the US economy (a contrary argument is that money saved will be spent on other goods that will benefit. I am not sure that this is compltely true, given that Walmart is an all-purpose store these days).
The better is question is what would happen if there was an import tax/tariff on companies that are incorporated here, as a shell corporation, but have all plants overseas. Would those low prices be raised to equal the cost of their American counterparts, thereby completely reducing the revenue as consumers switch to American made goods? Would this spur corporations to keep such plants open here, thereby creating more jobs and more money to circulate in the economy?
I don't know. We do know the answer as to what is happening now.
As to your second portion, here is a great article about Delaware. There are some tax benefits, but I hardly see that as a basis for corporate locations within the US.
The broader and more vital issue is the location of plants.
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Do you understand why post 29 is so much better in terms of generating discussion than the other post? It was articulate, and accurate.
As to your first portion, of course it saves us money. Yet, it costs us money too. It is the Walmart truism. I cannot fault a family for shopping and saving at Walmart, yet everytime they do so, it hurts the US economy (a contrary argument is that money saved will be spent on other goods that will benefit. I am not sure that this is compltely true, given that Walmart is an all-purpose store these days).
The better is question is what would happen if there was an import tax/tariff on companies that are incorporated here, as a shell corporation, but have all plants overseas. Would those low prices be raised to equal the cost of their American counterparts, thereby completely reducing the revenue as consumers switch to American made goods? Would this spur corporations to keep such plants open here, thereby creating more jobs and more money to circulate in the economy?
I don't know. We do know the answer as to what is happening now.
As to your second portion, here is a great article about Delaware. There are some tax benefits, but I hardly see that as a basis for corporate locations within the US.
The broader and more vital issue is the location of plants.
There are local companies here who advertise that angle quite often..that shopping with them means more of the money spent stays local vs larger corporate conglomerates that profits exit the area and who knows how much even stay in the country now days.
Of course we are all just babbling here because the same corporations that are doing these things are running congress and our government.
It is so obvious what we are allowing is elitist and extremely negative for the majority, yet we do nothing about it..
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There are local companies here who advertise that angle quite often..that shopping with them means more of the money spent stays local vs larger corporate conglomerates that profits exit the area and who knows how much even stay in the country now days.
Of course we are all just babbling here because the same corporations that are doing these things are running congress and our government.
It is so obvious what we are allowing is elitist and extremely negative for the majority, yet we do nothing about it..
As to your first portion, of course it saves us money. Yet, it costs
us money too. It is the Walmart truism. I cannot fault a family for
shopping and saving at Walmart, yet everytime they do so, it hurts the
US economy (a contrary argument is that money saved will be spent on
other goods that will benefit. I am not sure that this is compltely
true, given that Walmart is an all-purpose store these days).
The better is question is what would happen if there was an import
tax/tariff on companies that are incorporated here, as a shell
corporation, but have all plants overseas. Would those low prices be
raised to equal the cost of their American counterparts, thereby
completely reducing the revenue as consumers switch to American made
goods? Would this spur corporations to keep such plants open here,
thereby creating more jobs and more money to circulate in the economy?
Your vote in elections don't matter, but as long as you are participating in the system of USD's , you vote with every action you make, and with every USD you acquire. If not to fault the actors who is to blame?
Do we really want those jobs back? Where will the factories go? NIMBYA? Who on Earth wants to slave away in a sweat shop their entire lives, when they obviously don't have to? We can subsidize that shit with robotics and what we cannot do with machines, we have the Chinese for. They can ignore any environmental regulations and torture their populace with all the sufferings of the American Consumers wanting to fill the landfills to the sky with cheap disposable petro crap
0
As to your first portion, of course it saves us money. Yet, it costs
us money too. It is the Walmart truism. I cannot fault a family for
shopping and saving at Walmart, yet everytime they do so, it hurts the
US economy (a contrary argument is that money saved will be spent on
other goods that will benefit. I am not sure that this is compltely
true, given that Walmart is an all-purpose store these days).
The better is question is what would happen if there was an import
tax/tariff on companies that are incorporated here, as a shell
corporation, but have all plants overseas. Would those low prices be
raised to equal the cost of their American counterparts, thereby
completely reducing the revenue as consumers switch to American made
goods? Would this spur corporations to keep such plants open here,
thereby creating more jobs and more money to circulate in the economy?
Your vote in elections don't matter, but as long as you are participating in the system of USD's , you vote with every action you make, and with every USD you acquire. If not to fault the actors who is to blame?
Do we really want those jobs back? Where will the factories go? NIMBYA? Who on Earth wants to slave away in a sweat shop their entire lives, when they obviously don't have to? We can subsidize that shit with robotics and what we cannot do with machines, we have the Chinese for. They can ignore any environmental regulations and torture their populace with all the sufferings of the American Consumers wanting to fill the landfills to the sky with cheap disposable petro crap
But Wall the corporations deserve everything they make, because its the way the free market works and they are the job creators, only thing is they arent creating jobs in the country they sell their crap in.
Its all the middle class to blame for not working for less, not giving up vacations, health insurance and pensions. If those darn middle class workers would only work for low wages
I am not blaming the middle class, there is no reason why a livable wage and benefits could not be afforded. I am saying that it is ridiculous to wonder why industry is leaving while in the same breath calling for higher taxes on those that are responsible for creating jobs.
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Quote Originally Posted by cd329:
But Wall the corporations deserve everything they make, because its the way the free market works and they are the job creators, only thing is they arent creating jobs in the country they sell their crap in.
Its all the middle class to blame for not working for less, not giving up vacations, health insurance and pensions. If those darn middle class workers would only work for low wages
I am not blaming the middle class, there is no reason why a livable wage and benefits could not be afforded. I am saying that it is ridiculous to wonder why industry is leaving while in the same breath calling for higher taxes on those that are responsible for creating jobs.
companies are leaving the country and going overseas because of the wages and no benefits they pay people. Higher or lower taxes has no effect on companies going overseas, because most of the corporations dont pay any taxes now anyways. If we jack their taxes up, they will just find more loop holes to get out of paying them anyways.
I cant figure out why guys like you cant see this and instead still believe that if we lower corporations taxes {which they already dont pay} they will stay here and create jobs.
Its not gonna happen, so stop listening to the corporations, because they are just putting that in your mind, so that you wont think they are filthy pigs and will instead blame the govt.
But hey if you want to keep getting fools but all these phony American corporations, thats your business.
0
Rick,
companies are leaving the country and going overseas because of the wages and no benefits they pay people. Higher or lower taxes has no effect on companies going overseas, because most of the corporations dont pay any taxes now anyways. If we jack their taxes up, they will just find more loop holes to get out of paying them anyways.
I cant figure out why guys like you cant see this and instead still believe that if we lower corporations taxes {which they already dont pay} they will stay here and create jobs.
Its not gonna happen, so stop listening to the corporations, because they are just putting that in your mind, so that you wont think they are filthy pigs and will instead blame the govt.
But hey if you want to keep getting fools but all these phony American corporations, thats your business.
How do we make the price of oil 20 bucks on something we have zero control over?
It really is like some of you guys lives are trapped in 30 years ago lives, yet most of you were not even born or in diapers to know what what was going on. Instead you keep listening to people say, this is how this and that was 30 years ago, its pretty funny
0
How do we make the price of oil 20 bucks on something we have zero control over?
It really is like some of you guys lives are trapped in 30 years ago lives, yet most of you were not even born or in diapers to know what what was going on. Instead you keep listening to people say, this is how this and that was 30 years ago, its pretty funny
Don't forget that a large part of the problems we face to day are generated for our need to use credit.
How many people work for these credit card companies and banks? How many people would be out of work if we collectively decided to pay for everything in cash like the good ol' days?
Paying for the price of using credit has forced us to NEED bigger incomes which has driven up the price of everything.
Price fixing has been another problem. Computer manufacturers want us to need a new computer every year. Computers are a great example of fixed pricing. I spent $2300 bucks on a bad ass laptop 12 years ago that merely had 10 GB of hard drive space. 6 months after I purchased that laptop, there was a model that came out with 20 GB of hard drive space and a slightly faster CPU. Now you can purchase a really good laptop for 700 and a really good desktop for 500.
Usually the price goes the other way.
0
Don't forget that a large part of the problems we face to day are generated for our need to use credit.
How many people work for these credit card companies and banks? How many people would be out of work if we collectively decided to pay for everything in cash like the good ol' days?
Paying for the price of using credit has forced us to NEED bigger incomes which has driven up the price of everything.
Price fixing has been another problem. Computer manufacturers want us to need a new computer every year. Computers are a great example of fixed pricing. I spent $2300 bucks on a bad ass laptop 12 years ago that merely had 10 GB of hard drive space. 6 months after I purchased that laptop, there was a model that came out with 20 GB of hard drive space and a slightly faster CPU. Now you can purchase a really good laptop for 700 and a really good desktop for 500.
I think it is funny to see people want to increase taxes on corporations, force them into binding labor contracts, force them to fund outrageous pension, and health care benefits, etc. etc. etc.
Then wonder why they are going to places where 12 year olds will work their finger to the bone for table scraps. I am not saying it is right, in fact I think that it is morally abhorrent, and un-American to skirt the laws of our country by subjugating foreign workers. Much the same way I feel about the "slavery" of migrant farm workers.
It is wrong, but our politicians have paved the way (even given out subsidies and bailouts) for corporations to move jobs overseas. Much in the way China and Mexico are thanking Obama for the jobs that he sent them.
0
I think it is funny to see people want to increase taxes on corporations, force them into binding labor contracts, force them to fund outrageous pension, and health care benefits, etc. etc. etc.
Then wonder why they are going to places where 12 year olds will work their finger to the bone for table scraps. I am not saying it is right, in fact I think that it is morally abhorrent, and un-American to skirt the laws of our country by subjugating foreign workers. Much the same way I feel about the "slavery" of migrant farm workers.
It is wrong, but our politicians have paved the way (even given out subsidies and bailouts) for corporations to move jobs overseas. Much in the way China and Mexico are thanking Obama for the jobs that he sent them.
post by lordspoint is only mention of ........... UNIONS
ending PUBLIC worker's unions contracts is the solution. Working thirty-two hours a week and getting paid $900 every 2 weeks = $14 an Hour after taxes with 80% of their Health Insurance paid??? These people are all the way to the bank..
Most people work two-three jobs and a few need you to do more........... https://www.opm.gov/oca/12tables/index.asp
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post by lordspoint is only mention of ........... UNIONS
ending PUBLIC worker's unions contracts is the solution. Working thirty-two hours a week and getting paid $900 every 2 weeks = $14 an Hour after taxes with 80% of their Health Insurance paid??? These people are all the way to the bank..
Most people work two-three jobs and a few need you to do more........... https://www.opm.gov/oca/12tables/index.asp
Rick, all am gonna say is that is sickening for you to defend the corporations and say its the workers fault for wanting to work for a decent wage, get some health insurance and maybe a pension or 401k for their retirement. That is so friggin wrong and you want to blame the workers for the corporations moving the jobs overseas. Down right comical and as an American you should be ashamed to even written that first part of your post, but then again thats exactly how you right wingers are, defend the corporation and blame the worker for losing his own job.
I guess when you got a job, its much easier to bash other workers.
I really believe that you right wingers have had your decency gene removed from your bodies.
Almost every problem our country faces, can all be traced back to one thing nd that is lack of jobs. The country needs the corporations to create the good middle class jobs, because even thou small businesses create the most jobs in the country, we still need the bigger jobs which pay more, to keep our society functioning and it really breaks my heart when you guys keep your blinders on and cant see that. Instead its much easier to just blame the workers at the corporations for losing their jobs and blame the public workers for every problem in the country.
I would bet every penny i have, if any of you worked at any of these places, you would feel a whole lot differntly. I also doubt any of you go to work and march into your bosses office and tell him to lower your wages, because your earning too much and the company deserves a bigger profit. I doubt any of you right wingers are doing that.
Oh and in case you right wingers didnt know this, but right wingers actually do belong to unions, they actually work for corporations that endup sending their jobs overseas and yes they also work in public service jobs. Its not all democrats, which am sure some of the small minded right wingers believe.
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Rick, all am gonna say is that is sickening for you to defend the corporations and say its the workers fault for wanting to work for a decent wage, get some health insurance and maybe a pension or 401k for their retirement. That is so friggin wrong and you want to blame the workers for the corporations moving the jobs overseas. Down right comical and as an American you should be ashamed to even written that first part of your post, but then again thats exactly how you right wingers are, defend the corporation and blame the worker for losing his own job.
I guess when you got a job, its much easier to bash other workers.
I really believe that you right wingers have had your decency gene removed from your bodies.
Almost every problem our country faces, can all be traced back to one thing nd that is lack of jobs. The country needs the corporations to create the good middle class jobs, because even thou small businesses create the most jobs in the country, we still need the bigger jobs which pay more, to keep our society functioning and it really breaks my heart when you guys keep your blinders on and cant see that. Instead its much easier to just blame the workers at the corporations for losing their jobs and blame the public workers for every problem in the country.
I would bet every penny i have, if any of you worked at any of these places, you would feel a whole lot differntly. I also doubt any of you go to work and march into your bosses office and tell him to lower your wages, because your earning too much and the company deserves a bigger profit. I doubt any of you right wingers are doing that.
Oh and in case you right wingers didnt know this, but right wingers actually do belong to unions, they actually work for corporations that endup sending their jobs overseas and yes they also work in public service jobs. Its not all democrats, which am sure some of the small minded right wingers believe.
All money needs to be kicked out of washington, including union money.
But with that said 4 billion is chump change to the money corporations have fed washington over the same time period.
rooster hard at work again knocking the working man for trying to stay alive against the corporations. you must be a big corporation owner for you always to think about them first
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All money needs to be kicked out of washington, including union money.
But with that said 4 billion is chump change to the money corporations have fed washington over the same time period.
rooster hard at work again knocking the working man for trying to stay alive against the corporations. you must be a big corporation owner for you always to think about them first
All money needs to be kicked out of washington, including union money.
But with that said 4 billion is chump change to the money corporations have fed washington over the same time period.
rooster hard at work again knocking the working man for trying to stay alive against the corporations. you must be a big corporation owner for you always to think about them first
the irony of this post is that rooster IS the working man,,,,,and here you sit, retired at 45, knocking him
must be nice
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Quote Originally Posted by cd329:
All money needs to be kicked out of washington, including union money.
But with that said 4 billion is chump change to the money corporations have fed washington over the same time period.
rooster hard at work again knocking the working man for trying to stay alive against the corporations. you must be a big corporation owner for you always to think about them first
the irony of this post is that rooster IS the working man,,,,,and here you sit, retired at 45, knocking him
Rick, all am gonna say is that is sickening for you to defend the corporations and say its the workers fault for wanting to work for a decent wage, get some health insurance and maybe a pension or 401k for their retirement. That is so friggin wrong and you want to blame the workers for the corporations moving the jobs overseas. Down right comical and as an American you should be ashamed to even written that first part of your post, but then again thats exactly how you right wingers are, defend the corporation and blame the worker for losing his own job.
I guess when you got a job, its much easier to bash other workers.
I really believe that you right wingers have had your decency gene removed from your bodies.
Almost every problem our country faces, can all be traced back to one thing nd that is lack of jobs. The country needs the corporations to create the good middle class jobs, because even thou small businesses create the most jobs in the country, we still need the bigger jobs which pay more, to keep our society functioning and it really breaks my heart when you guys keep your blinders on and cant see that. Instead its much easier to just blame the workers at the corporations for losing their jobs and blame the public workers for every problem in the country.
I would bet every penny i have, if any of you worked at any of these places, you would feel a whole lot differntly. I also doubt any of you go to work and march into your bosses office and tell him to lower your wages, because your earning too much and the company deserves a bigger profit. I doubt any of you right wingers are doing that.
Oh and in case you right wingers didnt know this, but right wingers actually do belong to unions, they actually work for corporations that endup sending their jobs overseas and yes they also work in public service jobs. Its not all democrats, which am sure some of the small minded right wingers believe.
Decency gene eh?
Maybe you could explain to me how a factory worker that works 8 hrs a day for 5 days a week could expect to earn a "livable wage".
Are we talking $20-25 an hour to screw the heads on Barbies?
I think that is highly illogical and not even close to reality.
How can a corporation justify this to his share holders when the price of the stock starts to go down? How will the losses in people's 401Ks and pensions be effected when the company now has to pay 100X the price of labor to keep jobs in this country?
There is a way to bring the jobs back.
It just isn't very pretty.
It looks a lot like minimum wage, and because the regulations on health care etc have higher demands on full time employees, it looks a lot like part time.
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Quote Originally Posted by cd329:
Rick, all am gonna say is that is sickening for you to defend the corporations and say its the workers fault for wanting to work for a decent wage, get some health insurance and maybe a pension or 401k for their retirement. That is so friggin wrong and you want to blame the workers for the corporations moving the jobs overseas. Down right comical and as an American you should be ashamed to even written that first part of your post, but then again thats exactly how you right wingers are, defend the corporation and blame the worker for losing his own job.
I guess when you got a job, its much easier to bash other workers.
I really believe that you right wingers have had your decency gene removed from your bodies.
Almost every problem our country faces, can all be traced back to one thing nd that is lack of jobs. The country needs the corporations to create the good middle class jobs, because even thou small businesses create the most jobs in the country, we still need the bigger jobs which pay more, to keep our society functioning and it really breaks my heart when you guys keep your blinders on and cant see that. Instead its much easier to just blame the workers at the corporations for losing their jobs and blame the public workers for every problem in the country.
I would bet every penny i have, if any of you worked at any of these places, you would feel a whole lot differntly. I also doubt any of you go to work and march into your bosses office and tell him to lower your wages, because your earning too much and the company deserves a bigger profit. I doubt any of you right wingers are doing that.
Oh and in case you right wingers didnt know this, but right wingers actually do belong to unions, they actually work for corporations that endup sending their jobs overseas and yes they also work in public service jobs. Its not all democrats, which am sure some of the small minded right wingers believe.
Decency gene eh?
Maybe you could explain to me how a factory worker that works 8 hrs a day for 5 days a week could expect to earn a "livable wage".
Are we talking $20-25 an hour to screw the heads on Barbies?
I think that is highly illogical and not even close to reality.
How can a corporation justify this to his share holders when the price of the stock starts to go down? How will the losses in people's 401Ks and pensions be effected when the company now has to pay 100X the price of labor to keep jobs in this country?
There is a way to bring the jobs back.
It just isn't very pretty.
It looks a lot like minimum wage, and because the regulations on health care etc have higher demands on full time employees, it looks a lot like part time.
Which groups have more pain if we "force" corporations back here?
The workers or the shareholders/corporate leaders?
Per your post above, the pain would be taken by the worker as usual. Since the only way a corporation can be competitive is to pay 1 buck an hour to manufacture their product.
So would the leaders be willing to take a 80% hit on their salaries in order to bring operations back here?
Were the leaders also taking comparable hits to their salary packages when they shifted labor to those low cost centers?
The bottom line is the top will do whatever they have to in order to maintain their increasing salaries/benefits/stock holdings..while the worker has absolutely zero power or say in trying to protect their salaries/benefits/investments.
Why are all the concessions always required to come off the backs of the worker?
With the stock market at these levels, the expansion of profits over the last 10 yrs all the while the base of middle class jobs being shipped out it is obvious which groups have the power and which do not.
0
rick,
Which groups have more pain if we "force" corporations back here?
The workers or the shareholders/corporate leaders?
Per your post above, the pain would be taken by the worker as usual. Since the only way a corporation can be competitive is to pay 1 buck an hour to manufacture their product.
So would the leaders be willing to take a 80% hit on their salaries in order to bring operations back here?
Were the leaders also taking comparable hits to their salary packages when they shifted labor to those low cost centers?
The bottom line is the top will do whatever they have to in order to maintain their increasing salaries/benefits/stock holdings..while the worker has absolutely zero power or say in trying to protect their salaries/benefits/investments.
Why are all the concessions always required to come off the backs of the worker?
With the stock market at these levels, the expansion of profits over the last 10 yrs all the while the base of middle class jobs being shipped out it is obvious which groups have the power and which do not.
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all the way to the bank..
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