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Romney's Tax Plan - Baffling

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Posted: #26
Quote Originally Posted by canovsp:


That independent study is about as unbiased and non-partisan as an independent study on Southern Evangelicals by ClubDirt.

I always quote KOAJ when I say this: Liberals, statists, etc. assume revenue is theirs and whatever people are allowed to keep is a gift from the govt. By that logic if a rich person keeps more of what he/she makes then that is taking away from someplace else (statists assume tax revenues so when the govt gets less the people receiving those benefits are hurt).

People that are paying a certain % of their income isn't going to have to pay a higher %. Their take home pay will be the same if not more.


the church of clubdirt did an independent study on evangelicals.  we found that are all money hungry opportunists who are full of shit.  i'll post it here later.

as for the one i posted, what specific evidence do you have that indicates it's biased?  apparently it was done by a group that has bush and obama people in it.  i've seen the study posted in many articles.  i haven't seen anyone provide any specifics as to how the group is biased (other than the fact that they didn't like the group's conclusions)
 
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Posted: #27
Quote Originally Posted by canovsp:


That independent study is about as unbiased and non-partisan as an independent study on Southern Evangelicals by ClubDirt.

I always quote KOAJ when I say this: Liberals, statists, etc. assume revenue is theirs and whatever people are allowed to keep is a gift from the govt. By that logic if a rich person keeps more of what he/she makes then that is taking away from someplace else (statists assume tax revenues so when the govt gets less the people receiving those benefits are hurt).

People that are paying a certain % of their income isn't going to have to pay a higher %. Their take home pay will be the same if not more.


nice platitude. now defend it.
 
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Posted: #28
Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:

So you want higher capital gains taxes out of spite?

why not lower income tax to reflect parity with capital gains?  

For most working people, their investment money has already been taxed.  Then there are fees for investing on top of capital gains.  There is no wonder why the poor stay poor.  

Everyone would benefit through less taxation on investments. 


categorically wrong. 45% of americans do not own ANY equities and 85% of ALL wealth is in the hands of 20% of the people.

these investment tax breaks benefit the privileged few.

 
 
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Posted: #29
Ive gone the rounds with some here about taxes and how what we earn and our standard of living is a function of this country.

If your ONLY goal is to maximize (in this case minimize) your lowest tax rate and that is all that matters to you, then you have choices to make..even in this country.

If guys like Koaj are sleepless at night because taxation is killing them then go about focusing on how to find the lowest taxed areas and go live there..go work there..that is your choice.

The reality is that his standard of living exists because of the community and the tax base and the location. 

If you want to be a lawyer and live in a nice community with great schools, safe neighborhood and great surroundings AND earn a high income then you for sure are going to pay for that desire with higher taxes..in general.

You can always go be a lawyer somewhere in Camden or the Bronx or Ridley Park and for sure you will have a lower tax base..but you give up certain benefits in the process AND in most cases you will see a diminished return on your earnings when you live in those lower tax base areas..that or you will have a monster commute which adds costs and diminishes earnings.

Life is about choices..you try your best and make the best decisions you can..bitching about taxes or about how much fire fighters earn when there are choices out there which you CAN make and you are free to do just seems fake to me.


 
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Posted: #30

but who STILL pays the lion share of taxes in this country?

What % pay no taxes at all?

We can talk choices of lifestyle but facts are facts.

 
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Posted: #31
Quote Originally Posted by lordspoint:

but who STILL pays the lion share of taxes in this country?

What % pay no taxes at all?

We can talk choices of lifestyle but facts are facts.


We can do like the Pres of France wants to do and move the tax rate up to 75%
 
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Posted: #32
Quote Originally Posted by lordspoint:

but who STILL pays the lion share of taxes in this country?

What % pay no taxes at all?

We can talk choices of lifestyle but facts are facts.


Well that goes to choices again.

Want to live on welfare and pay no taxes? Nobody is stopping you..there are costs to that choice as there are with anything else.

 
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Posted: #33

Ppl will flee France and it's economy will only suffer more.

Wall....I agree on what you say about choices - my point was that as much as some may not like wealthy, successful people they still pay the most in this country. When one focuses merely on a tax rate the facts sometimes get distorted.

I live in a town with an excellent school system and I pay a high price for that by way of local taxation. I dont bitch (well actually I do when it come to the teachers union) but I know for the benefits there is a cost. Thats why I get up everyday and go to work so I can offer that to my kids.

its late, been a long day.....peace out guys.

the answer almost always lies somewhere in the middle

This us vs them, rich vs poor that Obama is harping on does absolutley no good for this country as a whole

 

 

 

 

 
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Posted: #34
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



the church of clubdirt did an independent study on evangelicals.  we found that are all money hungry opportunists who are full of shit.  i'll post it here later.

as for the one i posted, what specific evidence do you have that indicates it's biased?  apparently it was done by a group that has bush and obama people in it.  i've seen the study posted in many articles.  i haven't seen anyone provide any specifics as to how the group is biased (other than the fact that they didn't like the group's conclusions)

I already gave you this information. This "study" did not look at any tax plan Romney proposed.
 
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Posted: #35
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


Well that goes to choices again.

Want to live on welfare and pay no taxes? Nobody is stopping you..there are costs to that choice as there are with anything else.



The people getting the Earned Income Tax credit are not on "welfare"

There are people making $55,000 per year who pay no federal income tax.

 
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Posted: #36
Quote Originally Posted by AustinHoopDream:



nice platitude. now defend it.

Obama saying how much it will cost the country if we give tax breaks to people making over $250K/yr.

How can money that belongs to an individual (or company) costs the govt anything if it isn't the govt's money?

Example:
Joe is paying the govt (fed, state & local) 30% in taxes. He currently makes $1million/year. He is paying $300K in taxes. If his taxes are reduced to 25% he will now be paying $250K in taxes.

Conservatives look at that as Joe is now bringing home $50K more per year. Liberals look at that as that costing the govt $50K/yr
 
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Posted: #37
Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:


The people getting the Earned Income Tax credit are not on "welfare"

There are people making $55,000 per year who pay no federal income tax.


And there we are again with choice..

You can strive to earn 55k a year, have 8 kids and avoid taxes..nobody is stopping you.

 
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Posted: #38
Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:


I already gave you this information. This "study" did not look at any tax plan Romney proposed.


i understand that but all they had to work with was what romney was willing to disclose.  if and when he stops playing hiude and seek with his tax plan details, then i'm sure someone will analyze that info and if it changes anything, then we'll know. 
 
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Posted: #39

I'm begining to think that right-wingers are just bored.  Really.  Like they just have no lives and way too much time on their hands to fret over taxes and healthcare.

Oh, and invent scare tactic stories about how we're losing our freedom.  I said to this nutcase I work with today: "I wake up in the morning, do my thing, go to work, come home and go to bed...never once do I ever even remotely think during the day that I'm any less "free" then I've ever been.  Tell me, how is the government controlling your life?"  Here's what he came up with:

1 Seatbelts

2 those new squiggly lightbulbs

3 I don't know, some gibberish about how the government is regulating toilet bowl water capacity

I said "so in other words....nothing."  And he stammered some other incoherent nonsense and I had to tell him to get out of my face so I could get back to work.

 
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Posted: #40
Quote Originally Posted by AgentCooper:

I'm begining to think that right-wingers are just bored.  Really.  Like they just have no lives and way too much time on their hands to fret over taxes and healthcare.

Oh, and invent scare tactic stories about how we're losing our freedom.  I said to this nutcase I work with today: "I wake up in the morning, do my thing, go to work, come home and go to bed...never once do I ever even remotely think during the day that I'm any less "free" then I've ever been.  Tell me, how is the government controlling your life?"  Here's what he came up with:

1 Seatbelts

2 those new squiggly lightbulbs

3 I don't know, some gibberish about how the government is regulating toilet bowl water capacity

I said "so in other words....nothing."  And he stammered some other incoherent nonsense and I had to tell him to get out of my face so I could get back to work.



how about family values and the decline of morality in this country?  how much time did you devote to that?  ask yourself this.  are there any gay people or divorced people in or near your office?  oh wait, just gay people, divorce is ok.   if so, go to the nearest chick-fil-a for lunch tomorrow.  you need to start taking some responsibility. 
 
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Posted: #41
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


And there we are again with choice..

You can strive to earn 55k a year, have 8 kids and avoid taxes..nobody is stopping you.






You are obviously not at all familiar with what the median income is in America.

Additionally, you don't need to have "8 kids" to not pay federal income tax.


 
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Posted: #42
everyone knows that income taxes impede economic activity (penalizing labor). So why do we continue to advocate for their usage?

We should be taxing the currency itself. Tax the Dollar. The money supply

The system is already in place, and it works. The usfedgov spends as it pleases. The Fed Reserve buys the gov debt from the treasury at 0%

simple enough, no?
 
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Posted: #43
Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:





You are obviously not at all familiar with what the median income is in America.

Additionally, you don't need to have "8 kids" to not pay federal income tax.



The concept..focus on the concept instead if I pulled out the tax tables and calculated how many exemptions I would need to not qualify for income tax.

Geez..you try so hard to bitch about someone else. Did you not understand the underlying concept? 

If you want to avoid taxation and focus on using those credits as your top life priority then nobody is stopping you.

 
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Posted: #44
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


And there we are again with choice..

You can strive to earn 55k a year, have 8 kids and avoid taxes..nobody is stopping you.



In the Obama economy, there are 6-700 applicants for every $55,000 per year job.

It is bizarre you think this what you earn is somehow a "choice"

And even more bizarre, you think paying high federal income taxes - which are the topic of this thread - is something that can be alleviated by moving to another area.



 
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Posted: #45
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


The concept..focus on the concept instead if I pulled out the tax tables and calculated how many exemptions I would need to not qualify for income tax.

Geez..you try so hard to bitch about someone else. Did you not understand the underlying concept? 

If you want to avoid taxation and focus on using those credits as your top life priority then nobody is stopping you.



Er, there is not "underlying concept" being articulated here since what you're saying is factually false.


 
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Posted: #46
I guess your "underlying concept" Wallstreet is that taxes are at a rates which should be maintained and anyone wanting them to be cut is "bitching"

Or something.
 
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Posted: #47
Let's just stop finger pointing and talk about box instead.
 
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Posted: #48
US population  311,591,900
People in the workforce  111,317,000


In order to fund a government via income taxes, you must first acknowledge that two out of three persons are not participating

then out of the remaining 111M,  the top 11 Million of them, are already paying most all the income taxes in the first place

11 Million Americans carry most the entire burden of funding the government, from their incomes

We are levering the funding of our government against 3% of the population. What is scary is, that nobody bothers to think of it like that, when they feign to fret about inequality,,,,,as in they want to fix wealth disparity/income inequality, by further taxing those people. And we wonder why things only get worse
 
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Posted: #49
The problem is that the entire political class seems to think using the tax code to direct behavior is dandy idea.

I really am skeptical that there is any appetite for real tax reform in Washington, DC.

The amount of public education that would have to go into such an issue would be pretty substantial as politicians would immediately start screaming about the 'cost' to groups x, y, and z.
 
 
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Posted: #50
be easy,

 ~3% are funding only part of what runs the government, the rest is borrowed, and we have people who think it is a perfectly good idea to tax the 3% more and spend more.

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