JJ McCarthy?!!!

This is very strange. I keep hearing "experts" on national sports media talk about JJ McCarthy like he's a sure-fire franchise QB. To me, the fact that he went in the first round was a stretch. Seems to me this same mistake gets made continually by NFL execs, which plays out like this: A college QB is rated a middling prospect after they play their last game. Then the manufactued hype drives up their perceived worth and potential. All it seemed to take was Jim Harbaugh giving him a glowing recommendation in what I interpreted as an obligatory gesture by the coach giving the kid his due. After all if he was so high on the guy he could have traded Herbert and taken JJ with his #5 pick. Personally I haven't seen anything in McCarthy's game says he could even be a viable NFL starter.

Wondering what some of the faithful here might think. Maybe I'm missing something. Wouldn't be a first if I am. 

He was impressing the Vikings staff when he was healthy. I think what KOC likes most about McCarthy is that he understands the game. He can talk his language. He didn't have to do anything at Michigan to wow people. He has the arm strength and the wiggle that KOC likes. I do think that Darnold won't be back. I think one of the other crap teams are going to give him 40-50 million and he will go. I think the Vikings would be interested in a 2 year deal north of 70 million, but the Vikings set themselves up for next year. They are ahead of the process by a year and Darnold playing out of his ass, has really thrown a wrench into their plans. They want that rookie contract so they can load up on other players and make a 3-4 year run. 

I think you nailed it. Jim Harbaugh makes every player he coaches look good.  He could probably coach a service academy into a national championship 

@MP2056

 I keep hearing "experts" on national sports media talk about JJ McCarthy like he's a sure-fire franchise QB

He isn't.  He can develop into one with the proper work and coaching over a long period of time.  

By this, I mean is not 'sure-fire'.  But he does have the tools to be a 'franchise' QB. He can develop, just as Darnold has, over time.

It is not like he was 'sure-fire' like Luck was -- but no QB last year was.

But it is a nice spot for the Vikings to be in, because they have choices now.

Darnold was always going to be a 'bridge' between Cousins and McCarthy. 

So, now do you really want to pay money to keep Darnold when he is, basically, having just a breakout year?

When you scout, draft, sign, and start developing a 'sure-fire franchise QB' -- you know it.

For example, Luck, Manning, Burrow, etc.  There is never much question from the 'experts' or even the fans about the direction to go with a QB.

That is why, even several games into the season (or even now), Viking fans were still talking about 'McCarthy or Darnold'.  Because neither is seen as a true franchise can't-miss type of QB.

What if the Vikings lose in the first-round -- do they move on from Darnold; or if they make it to the CF or SB -- would that solidify them sticking with Darnold?

I like when teams take the time to develop QBs instead of throwing them into the 'fire'.  I think it can be a setback for the QB and the team if they do not.

Even if they have a breakout year, like Stroud, the expectations going forward for the team and the QB may be unrealistic.  Even Stroud has had some hiccups this year.

If you are 'sure-fire' you do not get scouted and drafted behind the guys that went in from of him -- you are the first (maybe second) QB drafted.

When was the last time 2 sure-fire guys went in the same draft?  Eli, Rivers? Luck and maybe RG III, if he had't got hurt?  Or Peyton and Leaf?

No, he is NOT 'sure-fire' because that means he is drafted 1st and is playing right away and very little development is needed and there is no controversy.

BUT he can certainly develop over time into a 'franchise' QB.

BUT I do not trust Darnold past this year for the type of money someone is going to be willing to pay him.

But it is nice to have two good QBs on your team that you can turn to.

I would also add that, to me, just because someone starts for a team (maybe for years) does not make them a true 'franchise' QB.  It just means there are no great QBs they can draft or trade for and stick with a solid starter.

Just being a longtime starter does not make you a franchise QB -- to me.

@diondimucci

This is very true also

"J.J. McCarthy, a quarterback, was viewed as one of the top prospects in the nation coming out of high school1. He ranked 25th by 247Sports Composite Rankings, fifth overall among quarterbacks, and sixth among prospects from Illinois1. His 247 score was a 97, indicating he was likely to be drafted and was among the top 10% of high school prospects"

This JJ McCarthy? Ranked 25th in the nation out of high school? Needs someone else to make him look good?

Interesting.

@TJZags598

Correct.  Needed to make him look 'better' in order to be seen as a 'sure-fire franchise QB' 

Going to that school with that coach and that lauding certainly helped.  

Otherwise, he should have been the top QB prospect and the #1 draft pick without it.

For context there are estimated to be approximately 1,040,000 high school football players.

Top 25 out of a million players.

@Raiders22

  He signed with Michigan after drawing offers from programs such as Ohio State, USC, Tennessee, and LSU.

McCarthy was a mega talent; he received 33 scholarship offers.

If he went to LSU he would still have been a first round draft pick? Most people i know think Harbaugh held him back.

@TJZags598

Yessir.  I am simply saying it helped him going there.  Better than Tennessee without the coaching.  Better than LSU with stiffer competition at the spot.

But I agree he was looked at very highly all over.

I even agree Harbaugh limited his weaknesses from getting seen as much (if you call that being held back).  Harbaugh liked the run there but still allowed him to do his thing at times.  But when you look at his lack of touch at times or his lack of just rifling the ball deep instead of leaving it up, that is stuff Harbaugh 'controlled'.  He has great arm strength but needs work on those things for the NFL.

Harbaugh also 'held him back' by not 'forcing' him to read NFL-style defenses.  He needs work on that.  He also 'held him back' but not working on him leaving the pocket, or being more comfortable there -- that is needed in the NFL.

I am NOT saying he is not good; I am only pointing out he is NOT a 'sure-fire' thing.

Having an elite-level coach give you a good review always helps.

@Raiders22

well said. 100%

Good coaching is essential. Harbaugh definitely helped McCarthy, and his trajectory. 

When Talent and coaching combine, you get franchise qb's

if Patrick Mahomes went to the Jets or Bears, is he Patrick Mahomes?

Good, probably, but nothing like he is today.

I think McCarthy will do well under O'connell.

@TJZags598

I’d rather have Trey Lance lol 

jj reminds me a lot of josh rosen and jimmy clausen. vikes would be wise to trade him as i think he is injury prone and a system qb at best. wishing him the best in his rehab

@HitorMiss

 darnold not going anywhere minnesota will franchise tag him lets see him do this again then he will get his mayfield. most of time teams draft qb that have worse hc worse ol and very little skill position and say go win the game for us. remember darnold was supposed to be good but he was stuck in awful situations just fyi it took brady a few yrs before he was awesome. ne won those first sb off hc defense st. Im a minnesota fan and darnold is right on that line were he makes great play and comes so close to that boneheaded play. look at last week up 20-3 and hes throwing int on impossible passes. he turns ball over alot gets away with alot of passes and takes too many sacks but hes got an awesome arm and great skill people and its working... for now

Hey guys this season is not over yet meaning if Sam goes out on Sunday night vs a weak Lion D. loses while throwing 2 or 3 int. as we all know he is capable of and then loses in the WC round while not playing well either this debate is a non starter.

I know he is playing top notch right now + most of the season also has been excellent but that old sports saying U are only as good as your last game means double for Sam.

Remember in mid season when he had a rough patch there was little talk of keeping him for next year so this is a hair trigger subject that can turn on a dime meaning lets revisit this in a few weeks for a much more accurate assessment.

Interesting for sure 

What the Vikings need to figure out is if Sam Darnold is another Alex Smith, and if JJ Mcarthy is the next Patrick Mahomes. 

I say neither 

Funny nobody has mentioned the multiple surgeries McCarthy has had this year...never a good sign from someone so young. I live in MN and am very curious to see how the qb position looks in 2025

@Buffalobob89074

 Darnolds worse games were against Jets, Jacksonville, and bears, go figure?

I'm just seeing all the comments on this thread after being out of commission for a couple days with covid. Lots of good insights. 

I agree the Vikings would be wise to trade JJ while his stock is up  They could probably a top five draft pick for him based on the hype. TBH I haven't seen many of his games but I think I saw enough to rule him out as a budding superstar - safe to say he's no Mahomes. It's likely he'll make for a solid back-up . A game manager. \

Thx guys 

Franchise Tag around 40 mil. will likely be the result as they kick the can to 2026 but as i stated earlier the season is not over yet which will affect the dec. at least somewhat as how Sam finishes.

Jim Harbaugh took Colin Kapernick to the Super Bowl. Enough said. 

Enough said about what?  

That Kaepernick actually had a decent year or two then.

That they did not win it.

That Harbaugh has Herbert and does not need another QB.  So, McCarthy or Darnold need to stay put.

That Herbert is better than all 3 other QBs.

That Harbaugh could not take them back again.

That any decent coach should be able to take a mediocre QB to a SB.

I am not sure exactly what you meant by this.  There have been many examples of teams going to the SB with a mediocre QB.

But there are far more examples of a team going with a good, or great QB.