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    All Forums | MLB Betting Forum

    Monday Manipulated Games System

    12 Next Last»
    ProudJagsfan
    Rolexsports
    RebelTell2
    barneybeans
    MoMoney2
    ...
    Participants:
    Search model icon
    Views: 2732
    Posts: 49
    12 Next Last»
     
    ProudJagsfan
    ProudJagsfan
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 11:12 AM ET #1

    3-3 YTD -$23



    Yesterday's Results:



    Jays +101 (-24%) closed at -103 (-25%) = -1% move = PLAY


    Mariners +107 (-11%) closed at 124 (-4%) = 7% move = NO PLAY


    Phillies -102 (17%) closed at +102 (-15%) = 4% move = NO PLAY




    Today's Notable Lines:



    Padres +110 (-14%) = must close at -109% or better.  Safety lock in price +101 or worse.




    Obviously, depending on when you jump on, you will start with more or less success. A user pm'ed me, who had started with this system since it was first introduced, and was 8-3 before the Jays' game. Another user mentioned following the system creator in NBA with about 60% success, which is amazing.  I think I have seen as many as 6 losses in a row. But over time, solid profit. As surely as sharps and books win more than they lose. Leans are profitable, too, and are currently outperforming plays, but mathematically speaking, that has to change over time, because the plays are safer. We will see haters after every loss, but let's stay patient. 

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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    3-3 YTD -$23



    Yesterday's Results:



    Jays +101 (-24%) closed at -103 (-25%) = -1% move = PLAY


    Mariners +107 (-11%) closed at 124 (-4%) = 7% move = NO PLAY


    Phillies -102 (17%) closed at +102 (-15%) = 4% move = NO PLAY




    Today's Notable Lines:



    Padres +110 (-14%) = must close at -109% or better.  Safety lock in price +101 or worse.




    Obviously, depending on when you jump on, you will start with more or less success. A user pm'ed me, who had started with this system since it was first introduced, and was 8-3 before the Jays' game. Another user mentioned following the system creator in NBA with about 60% success, which is amazing.  I think I have seen as many as 6 losses in a row. But over time, solid profit. As surely as sharps and books win more than they lose. Leans are profitable, too, and are currently outperforming plays, but mathematically speaking, that has to change over time, because the plays are safer. We will see haters after every loss, but let's stay patient. 

     
    ProudJagsfan
    ProudJagsfan
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 11:15 AM ET #2

    Correction: 
    Padres +110 (-14%) = must close at +109 or better.  Safety lock in price +101 or worse.
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    Correction: 
    Padres +110 (-14%) = must close at +109 or better.  Safety lock in price +101 or worse.
     
    Rolexsports
    Rolexsports
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 12:14 PM ET #3

    Riding this one . Missed yesterday was busy . I'm 2-2 since I started following this system. Just about even here ....
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    Riding this one . Missed yesterday was busy . I'm 2-2 since I started following this system. Just about even here ....
     
    RebelTell2
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 12:26 PM ET #4

    San Diego is a great example of what I was referring to the other day about 'being the sharp.'

    If you bet it last night, you got it at +113, so if you are lucky enough to win the bet, you're getting full value on the play, in this case an extra 12 cents. Why wait and lose the value? So, just cap the match up and you won't have to be dependent on any system.

    RT2
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    San Diego is a great example of what I was referring to the other day about 'being the sharp.'

    If you bet it last night, you got it at +113, so if you are lucky enough to win the bet, you're getting full value on the play, in this case an extra 12 cents. Why wait and lose the value? So, just cap the match up and you won't have to be dependent on any system.

    RT2
     
    barneybeans
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 12:27 PM ET #5

    Quote Originally Posted by ProudJagsfan:

    Correction: 
    Padres +110 (-14%) = must close at +109 or better.  Safety lock in price +101 or worse.

     Safety lock in price +101 or worse. Worse meaning SD EV, SD -101, SD -102, SD -105... yes?

    I'm 3-4 since I played both early locked in plays on thread 1 that got deleted - still cached in Google.... 

    I guess SD is a leaI know, it's the value on 538 thing vs the openning line...

    SD at Pinnacle +102 - if it hits +101 we lock it in early?

    SD is already a fav at a few places like YouWager @ SD -101

    Thanks!
    The pen is mightier than the pigs
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProudJagsfan:

    Correction: 
    Padres +110 (-14%) = must close at +109 or better.  Safety lock in price +101 or worse.

     Safety lock in price +101 or worse. Worse meaning SD EV, SD -101, SD -102, SD -105... yes?

    I'm 3-4 since I played both early locked in plays on thread 1 that got deleted - still cached in Google.... 

    I guess SD is a leaI know, it's the value on 538 thing vs the openning line...

    SD at Pinnacle +102 - if it hits +101 we lock it in early?

    SD is already a fav at a few places like YouWager @ SD -101

    Thanks!
     
    MoMoney2
    MoMoney2
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 12:34 PM ET #6

    Where do I go to read about the criteria of your system?
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    Where do I go to read about the criteria of your system?
     
    JTmonayyy
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 12:38 PM ET #7

    Love this system. Stick to it and you will prosper. 
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    Love this system. Stick to it and you will prosper. 
     
    ProudJagsfan
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 12:39 PM ET #8

    "In response to rebel.  Thats not as easy as it looks.  First off. The "system is what generates the padres as a possible lean in the first place.   Let's face it.  How many of the thousand of Covers members are actually winners in the long run handicapping their own games?  

    Yes, it's blatantly obvious you lose value but if you can stay around an average of even money per bet, risked, and pull a good winning %, isn't that better than "capping your own game for value" and not even be able to pull a profit?   Let's face it , few and far beyond do that yet alone consistently generate games that aren't public sucker plays with huge azz money lines.  
    This systems not perfect, as no system or capper is, that's been made clear now several times.  It makes money, which is what most people care about considering that's the hardest thing to do.   Nothing you say hasn't already been thought of and taken into consideration. "
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    "In response to rebel.  Thats not as easy as it looks.  First off. The "system is what generates the padres as a possible lean in the first place.   Let's face it.  How many of the thousand of Covers members are actually winners in the long run handicapping their own games?  

    Yes, it's blatantly obvious you lose value but if you can stay around an average of even money per bet, risked, and pull a good winning %, isn't that better than "capping your own game for value" and not even be able to pull a profit?   Let's face it , few and far beyond do that yet alone consistently generate games that aren't public sucker plays with huge azz money lines.  
    This systems not perfect, as no system or capper is, that's been made clear now several times.  It makes money, which is what most people care about considering that's the hardest thing to do.   Nothing you say hasn't already been thought of and taken into consideration. "
     
    ProudJagsfan
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 1:18 PM ET #9

    Quote Originally Posted by MoMoney2:

    Where do I go to read about the criteria of your system?

    The manipulated game system is built around a couple key concepts used by lines makers and books to make money, and by successful bettors to make money.  It's a best of both worlds system.


    The first thing we look at is the opening line.  This is the KEY and biggest thing that separates this system from most other contrarian systems.  We're using the win probabilities 538 has calculated for us to calculate our ROI's with.  For a team to be added to the "notable lines" they MUST be a team with under a 50% win probability deemed by 538 and have an ROI of at least -7%.  ROIs are used because they are a calculation of how much the line has to move rather than just taking all games that have a negative move.  Lines have to move more or less to move a 1% in ROI based on their % to win and their price.  It's not the same amount for every game, that's why we use the ROI calculation.  


    The way we calculate ROI's is taking the win probability and multiplying by the line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoMoney2:

    Where do I go to read about the criteria of your system?

    The manipulated game system is built around a couple key concepts used by lines makers and books to make money, and by successful bettors to make money.  It's a best of both worlds system.


    The first thing we look at is the opening line.  This is the KEY and biggest thing that separates this system from most other contrarian systems.  We're using the win probabilities 538 has calculated for us to calculate our ROI's with.  For a team to be added to the "notable lines" they MUST be a team with under a 50% win probability deemed by 538 and have an ROI of at least -7%.  ROIs are used because they are a calculation of how much the line has to move rather than just taking all games that have a negative move.  Lines have to move more or less to move a 1% in ROI based on their % to win and their price.  It's not the same amount for every game, that's why we use the ROI calculation.  


    The way we calculate ROI's is taking the win probability and multiplying by the line.

     
    ProudJagsfan
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 1:19 PM ET #10

    Example.  


    A's 39% +115.  (39 x 115) = 4485.  This is the amount of money we have won out of 100 games.


    Now we calculate the losses, which is just taking the other teams win %, which is 61% and multiplying 61 x 100, which are your losses which gives you -6100.


    You add 4485 and -6100 which gives you -1615 divide by 100, which gives you 16%.


    This is your opening ROI and since -16% is greater than -7% it's a "notable line"



    Somebody once asked, well why are we taking the teams, that 538 has projected to lose.  Doesn't that just mean their projections are off?  You could look at it that way, but considering there are other variables, such as (x) which Barney alluded to, it's hard to justify them being off when their projections mainly take statistics and some of more predictable variables such as travel and starting pitching into consideration.  Database and number enthusiasts would be in the same ball park for an expected win % based off the same factors that aren't necessarily the kind of factors that change with real time like weather, psyche of a players. etc.  That's why we also rely on the line movements also.  They help us get a good idea of some of those game time variables and how much they affect or don't affect the game.  These teams will almost always have less bet tickets which would make the move an RLM, which is always a good thing.

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    Example.  


    A's 39% +115.  (39 x 115) = 4485.  This is the amount of money we have won out of 100 games.


    Now we calculate the losses, which is just taking the other teams win %, which is 61% and multiplying 61 x 100, which are your losses which gives you -6100.


    You add 4485 and -6100 which gives you -1615 divide by 100, which gives you 16%.


    This is your opening ROI and since -16% is greater than -7% it's a "notable line"



    Somebody once asked, well why are we taking the teams, that 538 has projected to lose.  Doesn't that just mean their projections are off?  You could look at it that way, but considering there are other variables, such as (x) which Barney alluded to, it's hard to justify them being off when their projections mainly take statistics and some of more predictable variables such as travel and starting pitching into consideration.  Database and number enthusiasts would be in the same ball park for an expected win % based off the same factors that aren't necessarily the kind of factors that change with real time like weather, psyche of a players. etc.  That's why we also rely on the line movements also.  They help us get a good idea of some of those game time variables and how much they affect or don't affect the game.  These teams will almost always have less bet tickets which would make the move an RLM, which is always a good thing.

     
    ProudJagsfan
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 1:21 PM ET #11

    The cool thing about baseball is that the lines don't have to move in relation to one another like a spread.  The lines can be adjusted more for one team than another.  That's how the money is made for the books.  They can cut the line down more on what's deemed to be the sharp side, and less on the square side.



    When they lose, they have already minimized their losses by cutting out the value from the opening line, it's almost like they expect to lose.  If a line jumps back up, it could have just been an "off line" and for us it's considered a no play, and for the books it still doesn't hurt them back that much because when it jumps up, since it already opened so low, it may end up at the point it was supposed to start at to begin with.  Pinnacle has even made it public many times that they're cool with losing to the sharps.  They rely on the sharps to shape their lines, and their goals to rape the public, and they do.


    Most all these plays are not only sharp plays, but their the most "off or manipulated" plays.  They're the plays that are intended to bait you into betting the favorite at low price.  


    To beat the books, you have to think like them too.

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    The cool thing about baseball is that the lines don't have to move in relation to one another like a spread.  The lines can be adjusted more for one team than another.  That's how the money is made for the books.  They can cut the line down more on what's deemed to be the sharp side, and less on the square side.



    When they lose, they have already minimized their losses by cutting out the value from the opening line, it's almost like they expect to lose.  If a line jumps back up, it could have just been an "off line" and for us it's considered a no play, and for the books it still doesn't hurt them back that much because when it jumps up, since it already opened so low, it may end up at the point it was supposed to start at to begin with.  Pinnacle has even made it public many times that they're cool with losing to the sharps.  They rely on the sharps to shape their lines, and their goals to rape the public, and they do.


    Most all these plays are not only sharp plays, but their the most "off or manipulated" plays.  They're the plays that are intended to bait you into betting the favorite at low price.  


    To beat the books, you have to think like them too.

     
    ProudJagsfan
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 1:31 PM ET #12

    Barney, I don't know how the other user got 8-3, he just PM'ed me that and i'm passing that on. I am literally just passing things on. But I don't see reason to doubt him.

    The system creator gives props to JT.

    Barney: with "or worse" I think my friend means "less value." "more expensive." so +100 -101 -102 and so on... are worse than +101.

    At +101 my buddy feels that you can lock it in without worrying about the line moving in the other direction past the thresh hold. You can wait until as close to game time as you feel comfortable. But even the leans are profitable, just not as profitable, over time. If you had accidentally locked in the Phillies yesterday, you would have gotten lucky.
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    Barney, I don't know how the other user got 8-3, he just PM'ed me that and i'm passing that on. I am literally just passing things on. But I don't see reason to doubt him.

    The system creator gives props to JT.

    Barney: with "or worse" I think my friend means "less value." "more expensive." so +100 -101 -102 and so on... are worse than +101.

    At +101 my buddy feels that you can lock it in without worrying about the line moving in the other direction past the thresh hold. You can wait until as close to game time as you feel comfortable. But even the leans are profitable, just not as profitable, over time. If you had accidentally locked in the Phillies yesterday, you would have gotten lucky.
     
    Cardinals702
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 1:37 PM ET #13

    Didn't you make a thread for a guaranteed way to win long term is to fade every "system"? I understand why you stopped writing your worthless long articles because they were usually wrong but now you contradict yourself. 
    Rebeltell gave you good advice you should follow before you keep losing money.
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    Didn't you make a thread for a guaranteed way to win long term is to fade every "system"? I understand why you stopped writing your worthless long articles because they were usually wrong but now you contradict yourself. 
    Rebeltell gave you good advice you should follow before you keep losing money.
     
    ProudJagsfan
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 1:45 PM ET #14

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinals702:

    Didn't you make a thread for a guaranteed way to win long term is to fade every "system"? I understand why you stopped writing your worthless long articles because they were usually wrong but now you contradict yourself. 
    Rebeltell gave you good advice you should follow before you keep losing money.

    Yeah I wrote that because I was just frustrated about all the system threads popping up that were based on erroneous premises without being able to show or promise any long-term success.
    Lol I still write my "worthless" articles. The point of them is not necessarily to be right all the time. Btw, you're ignorant of the long-term record which I have documented on my e-mails. Their purpose is to provide solid info about the game that contains pros and cons. If the bet loses, the reasons that the bet will lose are already contained within the article, so people who don't value my picks so much can still profit from all the info that I provide. I choose those games on Sunday morning and devote myself to an opinion when I cap the game several days later.
    See, "keep" isn't a wrong term because of the long-term history success evident in the spreadsheet that you don't want to see because you seem to like to enjoy spewing lies and distortions. Keep hatin', i'll add you to the list of trash to expect after the losses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinals702:

    Didn't you make a thread for a guaranteed way to win long term is to fade every "system"? I understand why you stopped writing your worthless long articles because they were usually wrong but now you contradict yourself. 
    Rebeltell gave you good advice you should follow before you keep losing money.

    Yeah I wrote that because I was just frustrated about all the system threads popping up that were based on erroneous premises without being able to show or promise any long-term success.
    Lol I still write my "worthless" articles. The point of them is not necessarily to be right all the time. Btw, you're ignorant of the long-term record which I have documented on my e-mails. Their purpose is to provide solid info about the game that contains pros and cons. If the bet loses, the reasons that the bet will lose are already contained within the article, so people who don't value my picks so much can still profit from all the info that I provide. I choose those games on Sunday morning and devote myself to an opinion when I cap the game several days later.
    See, "keep" isn't a wrong term because of the long-term history success evident in the spreadsheet that you don't want to see because you seem to like to enjoy spewing lies and distortions. Keep hatin', i'll add you to the list of trash to expect after the losses.
     
    barneybeans
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 1:47 PM ET #15

    Quote Originally Posted by ProudJagsfan:

    Barney, I don't know how the other user got 8-3, he just PM'ed me that and i'm passing that on. I am literally just passing things on. But I don't see reason to doubt him.

    The system creator gives props to JT.

    Barney: with "or worse" I think my friend means "less value." "more expensive." so +100 -101 -102 and so on... are worse than +101.

    At +101 my buddy feels that you can lock it in without worrying about the line moving in the other direction past the thresh hold. You can wait until as close to game time as you feel comfortable. But even the leans are profitable, just not as profitable, over time. If you had accidentally locked in the Phillies yesterday, you would have gotten lucky.
    "more expensive." so +100 -101 -102 and so on... are worse than +101."

    Good so I read it right - was confused a little because as it moves away to be worse line it becomes a stronger play (to the limit of course) so I thought maybe as the line got worse that might be better.

    I had PHI yesterday, your lean as well, a real lucky win as my reasons for the pick did not come into play, yesterday's game came down to a flip of a coin but I'll take it!

    Also perhaps posting the system overview daily so that it is always in the beginning after the initial leans post... might be helpful.
    The pen is mightier than the pigs
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProudJagsfan:

    Barney, I don't know how the other user got 8-3, he just PM'ed me that and i'm passing that on. I am literally just passing things on. But I don't see reason to doubt him.

    The system creator gives props to JT.

    Barney: with "or worse" I think my friend means "less value." "more expensive." so +100 -101 -102 and so on... are worse than +101.

    At +101 my buddy feels that you can lock it in without worrying about the line moving in the other direction past the thresh hold. You can wait until as close to game time as you feel comfortable. But even the leans are profitable, just not as profitable, over time. If you had accidentally locked in the Phillies yesterday, you would have gotten lucky.
    "more expensive." so +100 -101 -102 and so on... are worse than +101."

    Good so I read it right - was confused a little because as it moves away to be worse line it becomes a stronger play (to the limit of course) so I thought maybe as the line got worse that might be better.

    I had PHI yesterday, your lean as well, a real lucky win as my reasons for the pick did not come into play, yesterday's game came down to a flip of a coin but I'll take it!

    Also perhaps posting the system overview daily so that it is always in the beginning after the initial leans post... might be helpful.
     
    ProudJagsfan
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 1:55 PM ET #16

    I was confused too at first when I read my buddy's text saying "lower" "higher" etc. I'll keep demonstrating the terminology

    What do you mean with system overview? The explanation behind it? 
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    I was confused too at first when I read my buddy's text saying "lower" "higher" etc. I'll keep demonstrating the terminology

    What do you mean with system overview? The explanation behind it? 
     
    ProudJagsfan
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 2:00 PM ET #17

    If it's a coin-flip game, the underdog is the right side to be on--more bang for your buck! (value). That's why the +110 games are really nice--coin flip, but you don't have to win as high of a % to profit as +100 or -110.  (my words, 1515 doesn't care for value)
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    If it's a coin-flip game, the underdog is the right side to be on--more bang for your buck! (value). That's why the +110 games are really nice--coin flip, but you don't have to win as high of a % to profit as +100 or -110.  (my words, 1515 doesn't care for value)
     
    barneybeans
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 2:13 PM ET #18

    Quote Originally Posted by ProudJagsfan:

    What do you mean with system overview? The explanation behind it? 
    every day someone surprisingly asks, "Where do I go to read about the criteria of your system?", so you should make a post with just that and post links to it when asked - or cut and paste like you do daily - but instead of the cut and pasted being in post #9 put it right at the top - so they see it right up front, just a suggestion...
    The pen is mightier than the pigs
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProudJagsfan:

    What do you mean with system overview? The explanation behind it? 
    every day someone surprisingly asks, "Where do I go to read about the criteria of your system?", so you should make a post with just that and post links to it when asked - or cut and paste like you do daily - but instead of the cut and pasted being in post #9 put it right at the top - so they see it right up front, just a suggestion...
     
    RebelTell2
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 2:13 PM ET #19

    I'm paying attention and not bashing, just adding a different perspective. I wish you all the success and appreciate your effort. And what you said is true, winning is the ultimate goal.

    Rt2
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    I'm paying attention and not bashing, just adding a different perspective. I wish you all the success and appreciate your effort. And what you said is true, winning is the ultimate goal.

    Rt2
     
    ProudJagsfan
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 2:15 PM ET #20

    Makes sense Barney. Gracias!
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    Makes sense Barney. Gracias!
     
    j-walk
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 2:25 PM ET #21

    Jagsfan, 538 is showing Padres at 50% win probability, isn't it suppose to be under 50% or just at or below?
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    Jagsfan, 538 is showing Padres at 50% win probability, isn't it suppose to be under 50% or just at or below?
     
    mtpjap690001
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 3:19 PM ET #22

    Jags

    Great job, been a lurker on site and appreciate you putting yourself out there and  in middle of this,,,

    I would like to be able to fish "so to speak" but need to tighten up a few things ...timing wise

    so when on 538 this morning Cinny was 49% so I did math on them...also never seem to have the Pinnacle opening line correct?

    When does 1515 pull down hisz starting points for both probablty and opening odds?


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    Jags

    Great job, been a lurker on site and appreciate you putting yourself out there and  in middle of this,,,

    I would like to be able to fish "so to speak" but need to tighten up a few things ...timing wise

    so when on 538 this morning Cinny was 49% so I did math on them...also never seem to have the Pinnacle opening line correct?

    When does 1515 pull down hisz starting points for both probablty and opening odds?


     
    LABOOKIE
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 3:20 PM ET #23

    BOL
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    BOL
     
    Cardinals702
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 3:52 PM ET #24

    sorry bros i think Cin is looking like the pick
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    sorry bros i think Cin is looking like the pick
     
     
    ProudJagsfan
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    Posted: Aug. 7, 2017 - 4:01 PM ET #25

    cardinals702: spam somewhere else please.



    Padres were  41% win probability last night, that's what matters. Opening lines.
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    cardinals702: spam somewhere else please.



    Padres were  41% win probability last night, that's what matters. Opening lines.
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