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    All Forums | Investments

    solar run explained...

    TheBest
    wallstreetcappers
    claycourtlesson
    AZGrinder
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    TheBest
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    Posted: Jun. 22, 2007 - 5:48 PM ET #1

    Laljee submits: It seems like there is a new solar name appearing out of thin air every week these days. Until a month ago, when Jim Cramer mentioned First Solar (FSLR), most individual investors had never heard of it. There are way too many solar stocks out there, some of which have long term potential, some speculative and some that should probably be avoided.

    First off, I want to mention that I have recommended solar stocks in the past. Indeed, back in June of last year, I wrote a bullish piece on MEMC Electronics (WFR). But in light of the speculative air that surrounds this space now, I want to revisit solar stocks to see which ones are probably worth a second look, and which ones are fluff.

    If you look at the company profile (on Yahoo! Finance, for example) of most of the solar companies out there, a common theme emerges. Apparently, they all "engage in the manufacture and sale of solar photovoltaic modules, and their solar modules provide electric power for residential, commercial, industrial, and other applications worldwide."

    The table below shows most of the stocks that are hitting the wires these days. Note that I kept out Evergreen Solar (ESLR) and Energy Conversion Devices (ENER) because I dislike both these names. ESLR has been around for a while, and is still struggling to make money. I am tired of their continuous stream of disappointing quarters and I recommend selling if you own this one. As for ENER, management has let investors down time and again. They have reported back-to-back weaker than expected quarters and don't deserve a second look.

    From the list above, the one sure shot solar energy play is MEMC Electronics (WFR). Based in the USA, they have quarter after quarter of strong earnings and growth. The stock trades very cheaply considering earnings are growing triple digit, but most of all, this company is the only major supplier of polysilicon, which is a required raw material for developing solar panels. With operating margins incredibly high and its monopolistic positioning in the solar space, I believe this is the best solar stock to own for the long run.

    My second pick from this list is a speculative one. It is JA Solar (JASO). This Chinese company manufactures solar cells and sells them locally and in international markets of Europe. The stock has gone from $19 to $25 in two weeks, indicating institutional interest. While EPS growth and revenue growth is not available due to lack of historic information, analysts expect earnings to grow 140% this year and 40% next year. Based on these estimates, the stock trades cheaply. Additionally, it has the best return on equity in the entire group at a whopping 70% and operating margins second only to WFR.

    For the same reasons that I like JA Solar, I also like Trina Solar (TSL) and Solarfun (SOLF). Both these are speculative bets and have enjoyed a solid run. In fact, TSL has moved 50% in 3 weeks and justifiably so. The Chinese maker of solar panels and systems has been growing earnings at over 500%, while keeping margins at reasonable levels. Similarly, SOLF, another Chinese competitor to TSL is growing earnings at over 200% with margins at 18%. These are all companies with positive earnings and significant revenue growth.

    A relatively safer Chinese solar play is Suntech Power (STP). Here is a $5 billion mid-cap company growing triple digits, yet sporting a humble multiple. The stock has not participated in the recent run-up, but remains in a strong position. I prefer STP over SunPower (SPWR), which does the same thing as STP, except it is a US company. Margins at SPWR are a lot lower and the stock is more expensive than its Chinese counterpart.

    As for Canadian Solar (CSIQ) (which is actually a Chinese company - go figure), they have yet to make money. Unless they can improve their margins, it seems unlikely that they will make money anytime soon. Revenue growth is huge, but not enough for me to recommend the stock when there are so many other alternatives.

    Finally, First Solar is perhaps the worst stock of the bunch. I understand the risk of going against Jim Cramer, but I am thoroughly convinced that had it not been for Jim, the stock would never have moved. Just look at how expensive the stock is in relation to its size and earnings growth. FSLR has the lowest margins (except for CSIQ which really doesn't count), and its return on equity is a paltry 2%. Considering how much its competitors are making, this company is disappointing.

    The only fundamental advantage FSLR has over its rivals is that it does not depend on polysilicon. Instead the company uses a cadmium telluride semiconductor material to manufacture its solar panels. So where others have to buy polysilicon from the likes of MEMC, FSLR uses a different, more cheaper material, which is not in as tight a supply as polysilicon.

    One thing that most investors already know and it goes without saying - this sector is volatile. Any fluctuation in demand or change in subsidization policies of governments in Europe will lead to a sell-off. However, on the flip-side, if other countries, such as Japan, US and Australia, start offering subsidies on solar electricity, the stocks will shoot up.- ap

    so ws. pick the winner at let me know. i have been watching jaso that is up good also but we may want to pick one on a pullback

    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    Laljee submits: It seems like there is a new solar name appearing out of thin air every week these days. Until a month ago, when Jim Cramer mentioned First Solar (FSLR), most individual investors had never heard of it. There are way too many solar stocks out there, some of which have long term potential, some speculative and some that should probably be avoided.

    First off, I want to mention that I have recommended solar stocks in the past. Indeed, back in June of last year, I wrote a bullish piece on MEMC Electronics (WFR). But in light of the speculative air that surrounds this space now, I want to revisit solar stocks to see which ones are probably worth a second look, and which ones are fluff.

    If you look at the company profile (on Yahoo! Finance, for example) of most of the solar companies out there, a common theme emerges. Apparently, they all "engage in the manufacture and sale of solar photovoltaic modules, and their solar modules provide electric power for residential, commercial, industrial, and other applications worldwide."

    The table below shows most of the stocks that are hitting the wires these days. Note that I kept out Evergreen Solar (ESLR) and Energy Conversion Devices (ENER) because I dislike both these names. ESLR has been around for a while, and is still struggling to make money. I am tired of their continuous stream of disappointing quarters and I recommend selling if you own this one. As for ENER, management has let investors down time and again. They have reported back-to-back weaker than expected quarters and don't deserve a second look.

    From the list above, the one sure shot solar energy play is MEMC Electronics (WFR). Based in the USA, they have quarter after quarter of strong earnings and growth. The stock trades very cheaply considering earnings are growing triple digit, but most of all, this company is the only major supplier of polysilicon, which is a required raw material for developing solar panels. With operating margins incredibly high and its monopolistic positioning in the solar space, I believe this is the best solar stock to own for the long run.

    My second pick from this list is a speculative one. It is JA Solar (JASO). This Chinese company manufactures solar cells and sells them locally and in international markets of Europe. The stock has gone from $19 to $25 in two weeks, indicating institutional interest. While EPS growth and revenue growth is not available due to lack of historic information, analysts expect earnings to grow 140% this year and 40% next year. Based on these estimates, the stock trades cheaply. Additionally, it has the best return on equity in the entire group at a whopping 70% and operating margins second only to WFR.

    For the same reasons that I like JA Solar, I also like Trina Solar (TSL) and Solarfun (SOLF). Both these are speculative bets and have enjoyed a solid run. In fact, TSL has moved 50% in 3 weeks and justifiably so. The Chinese maker of solar panels and systems has been growing earnings at over 500%, while keeping margins at reasonable levels. Similarly, SOLF, another Chinese competitor to TSL is growing earnings at over 200% with margins at 18%. These are all companies with positive earnings and significant revenue growth.

    A relatively safer Chinese solar play is Suntech Power (STP). Here is a $5 billion mid-cap company growing triple digits, yet sporting a humble multiple. The stock has not participated in the recent run-up, but remains in a strong position. I prefer STP over SunPower (SPWR), which does the same thing as STP, except it is a US company. Margins at SPWR are a lot lower and the stock is more expensive than its Chinese counterpart.

    As for Canadian Solar (CSIQ) (which is actually a Chinese company - go figure), they have yet to make money. Unless they can improve their margins, it seems unlikely that they will make money anytime soon. Revenue growth is huge, but not enough for me to recommend the stock when there are so many other alternatives.

    Finally, First Solar is perhaps the worst stock of the bunch. I understand the risk of going against Jim Cramer, but I am thoroughly convinced that had it not been for Jim, the stock would never have moved. Just look at how expensive the stock is in relation to its size and earnings growth. FSLR has the lowest margins (except for CSIQ which really doesn't count), and its return on equity is a paltry 2%. Considering how much its competitors are making, this company is disappointing.

    The only fundamental advantage FSLR has over its rivals is that it does not depend on polysilicon. Instead the company uses a cadmium telluride semiconductor material to manufacture its solar panels. So where others have to buy polysilicon from the likes of MEMC, FSLR uses a different, more cheaper material, which is not in as tight a supply as polysilicon.

    One thing that most investors already know and it goes without saying - this sector is volatile. Any fluctuation in demand or change in subsidization policies of governments in Europe will lead to a sell-off. However, on the flip-side, if other countries, such as Japan, US and Australia, start offering subsidies on solar electricity, the stocks will shoot up.- ap

    so ws. pick the winner at let me know. i have been watching jaso that is up good also but we may want to pick one on a pullback

     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jun. 22, 2007 - 6:12 PM ET #2

    Remember we talked about FSLR a while back, I mentioned WFR since they provide the polysilicon to all solar makers..

    I think its momentum and fundies buying more than internals or growth.

    As for the dolt Cramer, he said sell in the 50s and buy in the 70s..

    Cramer is a total idiot full of himself, ignore what he says.
    Reply
    Remember we talked about FSLR a while back, I mentioned WFR since they provide the polysilicon to all solar makers..

    I think its momentum and fundies buying more than internals or growth.

    As for the dolt Cramer, he said sell in the 50s and buy in the 70s..

    Cramer is a total idiot full of himself, ignore what he says.
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jun. 22, 2007 - 6:23 PM ET #3

    I still like WFR, they provide the stuff to create solar panels.

    The person writing the article is ignoring their growth, they are going forward with a production plant in Germany and even though I agree with the multiples I sure wont go against it and I think it hits 100..

    I wish the options werent so expensive..I had an order in for some Sept 80s the other day but pulled..as usual.
    Reply
    I still like WFR, they provide the stuff to create solar panels.

    The person writing the article is ignoring their growth, they are going forward with a production plant in Germany and even though I agree with the multiples I sure wont go against it and I think it hits 100..

    I wish the options werent so expensive..I had an order in for some Sept 80s the other day but pulled..as usual.
     
    TheBest
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    Posted: Jun. 22, 2007 - 7:28 PM ET #4

    well i have to state  that the value play seems to be wfr it has been stagnant for 2 months and could be in for a big run soon. where as fslr could easily pull back 10 percent .
     
     
    wfr to the moon! gj ws thanks for clueing me into the solar madness i hadn't really researched it till now.
    Reply
    well i have to state  that the value play seems to be wfr it has been stagnant for 2 months and could be in for a big run soon. where as fslr could easily pull back 10 percent .
     
     
    wfr to the moon! gj ws thanks for clueing me into the solar madness i hadn't really researched it till now.
     
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    Posted: Jun. 23, 2007 - 9:50 PM ET #5

    wfr was just upgraded to buy check it out: W.s. the man i think so. gj
    NEW YORK, June 12 (newratings.com) - Analyst Stephen Chin of UBS reiterates his "buy" rating on MEMC Electronic Materials (WFR.NYS). The target price is set to $80.

    In a research note published yesterday, the analyst mentions that recent channel checks indicate that the company is likely considering E-Ton, China Sunergy or Neosolar as a third solar customer. MEMC Electronic Materials is expected to announce the customer in 2H07 and the deal is likely to be in the $2.0-$2.5 billion range over a seven-to-ten-year period, the analyst says. The company’s highest gross margin 300mm epitaxial semiconductor wafers sales are likely to contribute 10% of the total sales by the end of this year, UBS adds
    Reply
    wfr was just upgraded to buy check it out: W.s. the man i think so. gj
    NEW YORK, June 12 (newratings.com) - Analyst Stephen Chin of UBS reiterates his "buy" rating on MEMC Electronic Materials (WFR.NYS). The target price is set to $80.

    In a research note published yesterday, the analyst mentions that recent channel checks indicate that the company is likely considering E-Ton, China Sunergy or Neosolar as a third solar customer. MEMC Electronic Materials is expected to announce the customer in 2H07 and the deal is likely to be in the $2.0-$2.5 billion range over a seven-to-ten-year period, the analyst says. The company’s highest gross margin 300mm epitaxial semiconductor wafers sales are likely to contribute 10% of the total sales by the end of this year, UBS adds
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jun. 24, 2007 - 1:26 AM ET #6

    Big$$$,

    Read this-

    E ton Solar

    They just bot a parts maker, I dont think they are going to be the party involved.

    That kind of contract 2 B (300M per year) isnt such a huge deal for such a big company like WFR. They have 1.7B in revenues now, margins are awesome but the market is just not giving multiple to the stock..with a PE of 30 and 20-30% Q over Q growth, the stock deserves a 40-50 PE ratio..but the market isnt giving them one.

    I feel good about the stock, there probably isnt a great deal of downside to the share price, but it doesnt seem to have the momentum that other solar stocks have.
    Reply
    Big$$$,

    Read this-

    E ton Solar

    They just bot a parts maker, I dont think they are going to be the party involved.

    That kind of contract 2 B (300M per year) isnt such a huge deal for such a big company like WFR. They have 1.7B in revenues now, margins are awesome but the market is just not giving multiple to the stock..with a PE of 30 and 20-30% Q over Q growth, the stock deserves a 40-50 PE ratio..but the market isnt giving them one.

    I feel good about the stock, there probably isnt a great deal of downside to the share price, but it doesnt seem to have the momentum that other solar stocks have.
     
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    Posted: Jun. 24, 2007 - 9:24 AM ET #7

    well i agree but i think momentum will pick up alot with any kind of news.
    Reply
    well i agree but i think momentum will pick up alot with any kind of news.
     
    TheBest
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    Posted: Jun. 24, 2007 - 3:47 PM ET #8

    are there any new small cap solar companies with momentum?
    Reply
    are there any new small cap solar companies with momentum?
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jun. 24, 2007 - 3:55 PM ET #9

    Big$$$,

    Most of the small cap solars are junk, like ESLR. I think finding a momentum solar stock is tough.

    Plus with the THREE new solar IPOs recently

    I think the area is getting a bit bloated. For me the move is probably to stay with FSLR. I have read that some firms are trying to push the stock (FSLR) and that they might be doing a secondary in the near future..


    Reply
    Big$$$,

    Most of the small cap solars are junk, like ESLR. I think finding a momentum solar stock is tough.

    Plus with the THREE new solar IPOs recently

    I think the area is getting a bit bloated. For me the move is probably to stay with FSLR. I have read that some firms are trying to push the stock (FSLR) and that they might be doing a secondary in the near future..


     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jun. 25, 2007 - 1:43 AM ET #10

    Want a long long long shot?

    Read THIS article

    Nano solar power on transparent windows..spray on and hook up.

    10 yrs in the future and things are going to be crazy..

    Reply
    Want a long long long shot?

    Read THIS article

    Nano solar power on transparent windows..spray on and hook up.

    10 yrs in the future and things are going to be crazy..

     
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    Posted: Jul. 9, 2007 - 5:56 PM ET #11

    ws thanks for all your help with these solar stocks i wish we woulda capitalized more
    i bought a big chunk of wfr and yge yet i ignored jaso and fslr and both those have run a ton. is there any value left in solar ? besides the two i hold or do u see something thats a buy?
    Reply
    ws thanks for all your help with these solar stocks i wish we woulda capitalized more
    i bought a big chunk of wfr and yge yet i ignored jaso and fslr and both those have run a ton. is there any value left in solar ? besides the two i hold or do u see something thats a buy?
     
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    Posted: Jul. 9, 2007 - 6:11 PM ET #12

    Big$$$,

    With all the longer term contracts in place I have to think the run isnt over..so the order of the day is to buy on big market dips and go with the strongest of the group.

    Funny but I really dont consider FSLR the strongest out there, but they are the MOMENTUM play..thus the superior move.
    Reply
    Big$$$,

    With all the longer term contracts in place I have to think the run isnt over..so the order of the day is to buy on big market dips and go with the strongest of the group.

    Funny but I really dont consider FSLR the strongest out there, but they are the MOMENTUM play..thus the superior move.
     
    claycourtlesson
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    Posted: Jul. 11, 2007 - 4:44 AM ET #13

    short sellers' nightmare.
    Reply
    short sellers' nightmare.
     
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    Posted: Jul. 11, 2007 - 9:55 AM ET #14

    MMs trying to shake the tree again today as most solars are down...
    Reply
    MMs trying to shake the tree again today as most solars are down...
     
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    Posted: Jul. 11, 2007 - 10:15 AM ET #15

    Bot some July 110s today on FSLR..


    Reply
    Bot some July 110s today on FSLR..


     
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    Posted: Jul. 11, 2007 - 10:25 AM ET #16

    early to the party..these suckers are going lower..


    Reply
    early to the party..these suckers are going lower..


     
    claycourtlesson
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    Posted: Jul. 11, 2007 - 10:34 AM ET #17

    Maybe right now, but you aren't going to be wrong on these.  10 days 'til expiration.......they move up.
     
    FSLR can't back its price....hell no.....but this whole deal is all about emotion, and FSLR is this:
     
    A SHORT SELLER'S NIGHTMARE
     
    This whole deal reminds me exactly of Iomega back in mid 90s, and all that did was slaughter the short sellers, despite nothing but negativity out of the pundits.
     
    FSLR is most likely going to demolish anyone who tries to short it.
    Reply
    Maybe right now, but you aren't going to be wrong on these.  10 days 'til expiration.......they move up.
     
    FSLR can't back its price....hell no.....but this whole deal is all about emotion, and FSLR is this:
     
    A SHORT SELLER'S NIGHTMARE
     
    This whole deal reminds me exactly of Iomega back in mid 90s, and all that did was slaughter the short sellers, despite nothing but negativity out of the pundits.
     
    FSLR is most likely going to demolish anyone who tries to short it.
     
    claycourtlesson
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    Posted: Jul. 11, 2007 - 10:37 AM ET #18

    Not worried one bit.  My GTC just got filled at 111.
     
    Am looking for a 30-40% gain before selling.
    Reply
    Not worried one bit.  My GTC just got filled at 111.
     
    Am looking for a 30-40% gain before selling.
     
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    Posted: Jul. 11, 2007 - 10:42 AM ET #19

    Nibbled on a few more contracts on that dip..

    10 contracts in total, thats probably all I will buy..no need to go crazy.
    Reply
    Nibbled on a few more contracts on that dip..

    10 contracts in total, thats probably all I will buy..no need to go crazy.
     
    claycourtlesson
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    Posted: Jul. 11, 2007 - 10:50 AM ET #20

    Yep, man, let's go.
     
    Reply
    Yep, man, let's go.
     
     
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    Posted: Jul. 11, 2007 - 10:59 AM ET #21

    I believe your July 120s will hit 10 before next Friday.  A lot of buyers today and tomorrow will write the 120s against it, and the expiration price will end up getting pinned to where the most open interest lies.....and that'd be 120.
     
    Just can't have anything cataclysmic hit the overall market. 
     
    Cheers
     
     
    Reply
    I believe your July 120s will hit 10 before next Friday.  A lot of buyers today and tomorrow will write the 120s against it, and the expiration price will end up getting pinned to where the most open interest lies.....and that'd be 120.
     
    Just can't have anything cataclysmic hit the overall market. 
     
    Cheers
     
     
     
    claycourtlesson
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    Posted: Jul. 11, 2007 - 11:05 AM ET #22

    I'm sorry....July 110s.
     
    Reply
    I'm sorry....July 110s.
     
     
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    Posted: Jul. 11, 2007 - 11:20 AM ET #23

    I think it has a good shot..a week and a half off a decent drop.

    Either way I will keep a leash on it.


    Reply
    I think it has a good shot..a week and a half off a decent drop.

    Either way I will keep a leash on it.


     
    AZGrinder
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    Posted: Jul. 23, 2007 - 6:24 PM ET #24

    Take a Look at OCTL today....also WWAT. 
    Reply
    Take a Look at OCTL today....also WWAT. 
     
     
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    Posted: Jul. 23, 2007 - 6:27 PM ET #25

    Grinder,

    I think that WWAT was a stock listed on those solar links I put up yesterday..

    Interesting how the little fellas are getting some lovin lately, I could say it is the sign of a market top but it has been going on for so long who knows?
    Reply
    Grinder,

    I think that WWAT was a stock listed on those solar links I put up yesterday..

    Interesting how the little fellas are getting some lovin lately, I could say it is the sign of a market top but it has been going on for so long who knows?
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