He quit with a broken jaw , with a big payday (biggest fight besides Mayweather) on the line. He is not a fighter. How many fighter have fought with a broken jaw? Ali, Liston and Arthur Abraham all come to mind first, its a fight you have to roll with the punches, he quit against Maidana and now this, I don't care to see him fight again.
To remove first post, remove entire topic.
He quit with a broken jaw , with a big payday (biggest fight besides Mayweather) on the line. He is not a fighter. How many fighter have fought with a broken jaw? Ali, Liston and Arthur Abraham all come to mind first, its a fight you have to roll with the punches, he quit against Maidana and now this, I don't care to see him fight again.
its not like he was going to be available in september even if he did finish the fight. he also had a fractured sternum.
two fractures in his jaw and a fractured sternum. only tough-guys here on the covers boxing forum would have had no problem finshing three more rounds.
agreed.
its not like he was going to be available in september even if he did finish the fight. he also had a fractured sternum.
two fractures in his jaw and a fractured sternum. only tough-guys here on the covers boxing forum would have had no problem finshing three more rounds.
There is no way I would call Ortiz a quitter. The pain with a broken jaw is intense let alone getting punched in it for 3 more rounds. He knew what was at stake before the fight and there was no way he would just quit. As far as others doing it there are all kinds of degrees of breaks and pain thresholds. Your comments are laughable...
There is no way I would call Ortiz a quitter. The pain with a broken jaw is intense let alone getting punched in it for 3 more rounds. He knew what was at stake before the fight and there was no way he would just quit. As far as others doing it there are all kinds of degrees of breaks and pain thresholds. Your comments are laughable...
Ortiz is a quitter to me, and his record has proven with his attitude. This specific instance I don't consider it being a matter of toughness. It was either injury could have hinder him to a point of making it a futile finish. The sternum is a beotch because besides the extreme pain, it hinders your breathing and every body shot you take feels 100 times harder than it is. CD2010: I understand your reason to call him out, as I have and he has quit like I predicted twice. This instance, most fighters, and any smart fighter would stop as that internal bleeding injury could make him a corpse. I do understand your point regarding old-time fighters, but today's fighters look for long careers without serious damage. I don't feel Ortiz should retire, but he will never be elite or close to what they hyped him up to be. He is still way above the average fighter and is a very good stepping stone for super-star fighters on the rise having their first big test as he still has great athleticism but lacks emotional and technical skills to overcome in the heat of battle!
Ortiz is a quitter to me, and his record has proven with his attitude. This specific instance I don't consider it being a matter of toughness. It was either injury could have hinder him to a point of making it a futile finish. The sternum is a beotch because besides the extreme pain, it hinders your breathing and every body shot you take feels 100 times harder than it is. CD2010: I understand your reason to call him out, as I have and he has quit like I predicted twice. This instance, most fighters, and any smart fighter would stop as that internal bleeding injury could make him a corpse. I do understand your point regarding old-time fighters, but today's fighters look for long careers without serious damage. I don't feel Ortiz should retire, but he will never be elite or close to what they hyped him up to be. He is still way above the average fighter and is a very good stepping stone for super-star fighters on the rise having their first big test as he still has great athleticism but lacks emotional and technical skills to overcome in the heat of battle!
LRM704: I agree about the fight stopping with the Sternum and Jaw injured. In Post #6 I quoted "The sternum is a beotch because besides the extreme pain, it hinders
your breathing and every body shot you take feels 100 times harder than
it is." I been through the loss of breath in a match. During kickboxing, I happen to be fighting one the guys who's kick was immensely strong naturally, and on top of that he had great technique and torque. I walked in to a spinning side thrust and I almost blacked out. It was either the pain or loss of oxygen. After a few seconds I composed myself and acted like it was a flash kick that caught me off balance, and the bell to end the round went off. He broke and fractured my right rib cage. I had one round left and I had won every round and I just hung on for the as the tournament was 2 minute rounds. About Ortiz... after Maidana he seemed somewhat overwhelmed and didn't have any fire inside as it seemed like Maidana stripped the man of his spirit, and a man lacking spirit is already a beaten man. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but the Floyd fight showed me his clear-cut intentional headbutt and in my mind the type that deserves a serious course of action. They played the outcome as Mayweather leaned away. If he connected, knocked Mayweather out and causing him brain damage, paralysis, or etc... then the boxing commission would have stripped him of a license and he would be facing criminal charges. They played the outcome, not the intention. Why? If I fire a gun at someone and miss, they don't just warn me. I face many charges including attempted murder. Boxing should be facing the intent of action, not the result. Similar to other sports if you throw a punch whether it landed or not is irrelevant as it cause an automatic game(s) suspension an fines. Ortiz then wanted to hug 3 times and clearly had no argument about the loss. He wanted out of the fight as he realized he was in for a beating and he got an easy way out. I remember watching Berto ringside several times and making the point that Ortiz was stronger had a much harder puncher by a lot, and he was clearly. Berto to me showed me heart in that fight I didn't know he had and I clearly raised my level of respect for Berto because he was getting hit hard. I know it appears his shots seem powerful, but they are fast and flush but with all that even on the chin of so many fighters, I rarely seen him end fights with a punch or turn it around, as he seems to throw several 4-6 punch combos that back and opponent down and gain him momentum. Ortiz has tremendous physical attributes and seems intelligent when talking, but I question his perseverance during a boxing match where he is losing and feels like the lesser of a boxer and in physical attributes. I see many fighters try solutions, and usually fail, but they show a passion to want to continue. To me, Ortiz lacks that fire. and you likewise... GL LRM704 as I appreciate constructive criticism, agreement or dis-agreement as long as it constitutes a positive thread.
LRM704: I agree about the fight stopping with the Sternum and Jaw injured. In Post #6 I quoted "The sternum is a beotch because besides the extreme pain, it hinders
your breathing and every body shot you take feels 100 times harder than
it is." I been through the loss of breath in a match. During kickboxing, I happen to be fighting one the guys who's kick was immensely strong naturally, and on top of that he had great technique and torque. I walked in to a spinning side thrust and I almost blacked out. It was either the pain or loss of oxygen. After a few seconds I composed myself and acted like it was a flash kick that caught me off balance, and the bell to end the round went off. He broke and fractured my right rib cage. I had one round left and I had won every round and I just hung on for the as the tournament was 2 minute rounds. About Ortiz... after Maidana he seemed somewhat overwhelmed and didn't have any fire inside as it seemed like Maidana stripped the man of his spirit, and a man lacking spirit is already a beaten man. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but the Floyd fight showed me his clear-cut intentional headbutt and in my mind the type that deserves a serious course of action. They played the outcome as Mayweather leaned away. If he connected, knocked Mayweather out and causing him brain damage, paralysis, or etc... then the boxing commission would have stripped him of a license and he would be facing criminal charges. They played the outcome, not the intention. Why? If I fire a gun at someone and miss, they don't just warn me. I face many charges including attempted murder. Boxing should be facing the intent of action, not the result. Similar to other sports if you throw a punch whether it landed or not is irrelevant as it cause an automatic game(s) suspension an fines. Ortiz then wanted to hug 3 times and clearly had no argument about the loss. He wanted out of the fight as he realized he was in for a beating and he got an easy way out. I remember watching Berto ringside several times and making the point that Ortiz was stronger had a much harder puncher by a lot, and he was clearly. Berto to me showed me heart in that fight I didn't know he had and I clearly raised my level of respect for Berto because he was getting hit hard. I know it appears his shots seem powerful, but they are fast and flush but with all that even on the chin of so many fighters, I rarely seen him end fights with a punch or turn it around, as he seems to throw several 4-6 punch combos that back and opponent down and gain him momentum. Ortiz has tremendous physical attributes and seems intelligent when talking, but I question his perseverance during a boxing match where he is losing and feels like the lesser of a boxer and in physical attributes. I see many fighters try solutions, and usually fail, but they show a passion to want to continue. To me, Ortiz lacks that fire. and you likewise... GL LRM704 as I appreciate constructive criticism, agreement or dis-agreement as long as it constitutes a positive thread.
ortiz has now quit 2 times and that means that he is a quitter, regardless of what you are going through in the fight, real fighters (that are in their prime) never quit, some are willing to sacrifice their bodies, their lives and others are not willing to go that deep, people will always disagree on how much a fighter should risk during a fight, I am a fan of old school fighters, men how would rather die than lose, their are still some guys like this around, but is far and few.
ortiz has now quit 2 times and that means that he is a quitter, regardless of what you are going through in the fight, real fighters (that are in their prime) never quit, some are willing to sacrifice their bodies, their lives and others are not willing to go that deep, people will always disagree on how much a fighter should risk during a fight, I am a fan of old school fighters, men how would rather die than lose, their are still some guys like this around, but is far and few.
During my most passionate times when boxing throughout the years (also MMA, etc), I had an answer to that question. The question was... Will I still fight in this bout knowing I have a 50-50 chance of living? My answer back then was yes. I don't think I thought very long or deeply regarding the issue because now I can't recall enough passion (or whatever motivation is used) to be willing to die in the ring, assuming I knew I had a 50% chance of survival during a bout. Maybe back then I didn't believe I'd die in the ring, therefore the question wasn't deeply thought. I think the sport of boxing should have fighters willing to give it all every fight (not every fight as we all have off days, but most bouts) and the payout structure should go accordingly to each fighters level of commitment. It is a sport based primarily on brutality, but they like to keep it clean and use words like sport, athletes, art form, etc... every word stated that makes it sound civil and not barbaric. The goal is to hurt and stop your opponent within a time under rules, and people love knockouts more than anything and that's why Tyson ruled. Boxing is a vicious, barbaric and cruel event that is a legal form of maim (and sometimes murder; "manslaughter"). Polish and shine it up as much as possible but you can't deny what it is! Knowing this, I still enjoy it or even more so as they finally started paying smaller weight classes with big purses (well earned also; no slackers in the small to mid weights can come in soft off of training and expect to win.
During my most passionate times when boxing throughout the years (also MMA, etc), I had an answer to that question. The question was... Will I still fight in this bout knowing I have a 50-50 chance of living? My answer back then was yes. I don't think I thought very long or deeply regarding the issue because now I can't recall enough passion (or whatever motivation is used) to be willing to die in the ring, assuming I knew I had a 50% chance of survival during a bout. Maybe back then I didn't believe I'd die in the ring, therefore the question wasn't deeply thought. I think the sport of boxing should have fighters willing to give it all every fight (not every fight as we all have off days, but most bouts) and the payout structure should go accordingly to each fighters level of commitment. It is a sport based primarily on brutality, but they like to keep it clean and use words like sport, athletes, art form, etc... every word stated that makes it sound civil and not barbaric. The goal is to hurt and stop your opponent within a time under rules, and people love knockouts more than anything and that's why Tyson ruled. Boxing is a vicious, barbaric and cruel event that is a legal form of maim (and sometimes murder; "manslaughter"). Polish and shine it up as much as possible but you can't deny what it is! Knowing this, I still enjoy it or even more so as they finally started paying smaller weight classes with big purses (well earned also; no slackers in the small to mid weights can come in soft off of training and expect to win.
My dad used to yell and scream when a soccer player on tv couldn't score a goal that should've been scored. And I'd say Dad, you aren't half the player that guy is. He'd reply, he gets paid the big bucks to score!
Ortiz has quit 3 times! Twice ahead on score cards. His corner did not throw in the towel. This time time, his trainer told him to continue. He even did an interview with a smile!
Big money next fight (that he does not deserve)! Still blows this fight with a no name, that they had the advantage of picking!
The difference between us guys posting on a forum is these guys in boxing are willing to die in the ring. Ortiz is not a fighter.
My dad used to yell and scream when a soccer player on tv couldn't score a goal that should've been scored. And I'd say Dad, you aren't half the player that guy is. He'd reply, he gets paid the big bucks to score!
Ortiz has quit 3 times! Twice ahead on score cards. His corner did not throw in the towel. This time time, his trainer told him to continue. He even did an interview with a smile!
Big money next fight (that he does not deserve)! Still blows this fight with a no name, that they had the advantage of picking!
The difference between us guys posting on a forum is these guys in boxing are willing to die in the ring. Ortiz is not a fighter.
He makes entertaining fights, IMO. I had a houseful of people that night and everyone was enjoying the fight.
If you lost money on him, oh well I guess he should retire because he's a quitter and not a fighter or true warrior and he's supposed to die or blah blahb llah
He makes entertaining fights, IMO. I had a houseful of people that night and everyone was enjoying the fight.
If you lost money on him, oh well I guess he should retire because he's a quitter and not a fighter or true warrior and he's supposed to die or blah blahb llah
The thing that hurts Ortiz's future fights is....the boxing Gods on the Covers forum have went up into the mountains and after much compulation came back down with all their wisdom and knowledge and rendered the man a PURE QUITTER. The Gods have spoken and everything else is errelevent. He is shit in the boxing Gods book. He also was declared a mental midget even though he had a great pay day. I'll bet he can't sleep at night knowing how the covers forum feels about him....
The thing that hurts Ortiz's future fights is....the boxing Gods on the Covers forum have went up into the mountains and after much compulation came back down with all their wisdom and knowledge and rendered the man a PURE QUITTER. The Gods have spoken and everything else is errelevent. He is shit in the boxing Gods book. He also was declared a mental midget even though he had a great pay day. I'll bet he can't sleep at night knowing how the covers forum feels about him....
I respect anyone that has ever laced gloves, especially men that have sacrificed their entire lives to get to the apex of the sport. I don't know how die hard fans (I think most of us fall into that category) can question a man's will and/or character while participating in a fight like that.
However, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I respect anyone that has ever laced gloves, especially men that have sacrificed their entire lives to get to the apex of the sport. I don't know how die hard fans (I think most of us fall into that category) can question a man's will and/or character while participating in a fight like that.
However, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Having respect for anyone in a brutal sport is commendable... why? because they are in danger and push past the tough times in the ring. Ortiz's performance and attitude shows he's a quitter in a sense... when it gets tough, and he feels he needs every ounce to gut it out, he doesn't. He is not the only fighter (sport athlete) who does this. He is just in the spotlight. It upsets me because his physical talents are great, and he seems intelligent. In the end, everyone has their reasons for each.
Having respect for anyone in a brutal sport is commendable... why? because they are in danger and push past the tough times in the ring. Ortiz's performance and attitude shows he's a quitter in a sense... when it gets tough, and he feels he needs every ounce to gut it out, he doesn't. He is not the only fighter (sport athlete) who does this. He is just in the spotlight. It upsets me because his physical talents are great, and he seems intelligent. In the end, everyone has their reasons for each.
, with a big payday (biggest fight besides Mayweather) on the line. He is not a fighter. How many fighter have fought with a broken jaw? Ali, Liston and Arthur Abraham all come to mind first, its a fight you have to roll with the punches, he quit against Maidana and now this, I don't care to see him fight again.
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