Tier 1 Manny Pacquiao Nonito Donaire Floyd Mayweather Jr Tier 2 Sergio Gabriel Martinez Amir Khan Andre Ward Yuriorkis Gamboa Tier 3 Vitali Klitschko Wladimir Klitschko Chris John Chad Dawson Tier 4 Lucian Bute Adrien Broner Roman Gonzalez
We have posted several threads on all-time lbs-for-lbs. I thought a current list might spark a few opinions. I made a list not with numbers but with tiers. I'm sure I will get some people adding Bradley. Pascal, Froch, Hopkins, Marquez, Wjongkam, Segura, and others. Some I left out because they haven't fought in the U.S. and many of their opponents are questionable, and others I feel are declining or over-rated. Most likely Bradley will be the main name not on my list and even Froch, Hopkins and Pascal might be as well.
To remove first post, remove entire topic.
Tier 1 Manny Pacquiao Nonito Donaire Floyd Mayweather Jr Tier 2 Sergio Gabriel Martinez Amir Khan Andre Ward Yuriorkis Gamboa Tier 3 Vitali Klitschko Wladimir Klitschko Chris John Chad Dawson Tier 4 Lucian Bute Adrien Broner Roman Gonzalez
We have posted several threads on all-time lbs-for-lbs. I thought a current list might spark a few opinions. I made a list not with numbers but with tiers. I'm sure I will get some people adding Bradley. Pascal, Froch, Hopkins, Marquez, Wjongkam, Segura, and others. Some I left out because they haven't fought in the U.S. and many of their opponents are questionable, and others I feel are declining or over-rated. Most likely Bradley will be the main name not on my list and even Froch, Hopkins and Pascal might be as well.
I forgot to add: Saul Alvarez Toshiaki Nishioka Juan Manuel Lopez
Lopez's loss to Salido dropped him on many lists, but every fighter has a
bad fight, or a certain fighter they have problems against. Lopez got
stopped on his feet and I felt that even though his punches were sloppy
and not effective when he was hurt, that the referee called the fight a
little early. Regardless, it seemed that Lopez was fatigued. This is a
prime example of an undefeated fighter with almost all by knock-out gets
into a punching exchange with a fighter who has a great chin. Salido
despite being KO'd early in his career had proven he has a super chin.
Lopez was over-confident and was used to finishing off opponents and his
great success in the past had led him to his first loss. As I stated in a different thread I am opposed to heavyweights getting such huge purses and it seems the smaller weight class you fight, the less you make. I feel that almost every fighter I named is better lbs-for-lbs than both Klitschko brothers, you can't argue with their success and consistently fighting the top heavyweights. Unfortunately, I feel the Heavyweight division is at it's lowest with talent currently. There are a few decent fighters but they are considered small heavyweights and therefore fighting such big talented Klitschkos is not much of a contest.
I forgot to add: Saul Alvarez Toshiaki Nishioka Juan Manuel Lopez
Lopez's loss to Salido dropped him on many lists, but every fighter has a
bad fight, or a certain fighter they have problems against. Lopez got
stopped on his feet and I felt that even though his punches were sloppy
and not effective when he was hurt, that the referee called the fight a
little early. Regardless, it seemed that Lopez was fatigued. This is a
prime example of an undefeated fighter with almost all by knock-out gets
into a punching exchange with a fighter who has a great chin. Salido
despite being KO'd early in his career had proven he has a super chin.
Lopez was over-confident and was used to finishing off opponents and his
great success in the past had led him to his first loss. As I stated in a different thread I am opposed to heavyweights getting such huge purses and it seems the smaller weight class you fight, the less you make. I feel that almost every fighter I named is better lbs-for-lbs than both Klitschko brothers, you can't argue with their success and consistently fighting the top heavyweights. Unfortunately, I feel the Heavyweight division is at it's lowest with talent currently. There are a few decent fighters but they are considered small heavyweights and therefore fighting such big talented Klitschkos is not much of a contest.
BTW- Any thoughts as why (if you agree) the Heavyweight Division is so weak? Do you think MMA plays a major part? Do you think the rise of Manny and smaller fighters has attracted the public attention finally since the days of Duran, Leonard, Hearns and Hagler.
BTW- Any thoughts as why (if you agree) the Heavyweight Division is so weak? Do you think MMA plays a major part? Do you think the rise of Manny and smaller fighters has attracted the public attention finally since the days of Duran, Leonard, Hearns and Hagler.
To me p4p has 2 sets of criteria, accomplishments and skill and talent, to me I put slightly more emphasis on skill and talent, that is why I have gillermo rigendeaux in my top 10, to me it's not like ranking a fighter for a title shot it's more about who you actually think is the best fighter on the world, not what someone has accomplished throughout their career, more about how good are you right now. TOP 10, 1, NONITO DONAIRE 2 FLOYD MAYWEATHER 3, MANNY PACQUIAO, 4, WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 5, YURIORKIS GAMBOA, 6, VITALI KLITSCHKO, 7, PONGSAKLEL WONJONGKAM, 8, ANDRE WARD, 9, GILLERMO RIGENDEAUX, 10 NKOSINATHI JOYI
To me p4p has 2 sets of criteria, accomplishments and skill and talent, to me I put slightly more emphasis on skill and talent, that is why I have gillermo rigendeaux in my top 10, to me it's not like ranking a fighter for a title shot it's more about who you actually think is the best fighter on the world, not what someone has accomplished throughout their career, more about how good are you right now. TOP 10, 1, NONITO DONAIRE 2 FLOYD MAYWEATHER 3, MANNY PACQUIAO, 4, WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 5, YURIORKIS GAMBOA, 6, VITALI KLITSCHKO, 7, PONGSAKLEL WONJONGKAM, 8, ANDRE WARD, 9, GILLERMO RIGENDEAUX, 10 NKOSINATHI JOYI
one of the reasons that the heavyweight division is so bad, is because the lack of boxing clubs in both the US and canada, and when you are a big guy in school and coming up, school's have football and basketball programs, the larger athlete's get involved at a young age and stick with it, I believe if their were more boxing gyms around, like the way it was in the 40's and 50's, (shit their was a boxing gym on every corner in new york during those days), things would be different, example, I had to travel for 1 hour per day so I could go to the gym because their were none around where I lived and I started doing that in highschool, that takes a very big commitmet that not a lot of people are will to do, they need to bring back boxing into the HIGHSCHOOLS and UNIVERSITIES the way it used to be, (although it was very limited) that may be the biggest problem. you can get scolarships for all major sports why not boxing, football has just as many health risks, the schools need to get boxing back. that way amateur boxers that are good enough would be able to get scolarships and in turn be able to get an education (because in reality most amateur boxer never turn pro), it would simply be another outlet for people to better themselves.
one of the reasons that the heavyweight division is so bad, is because the lack of boxing clubs in both the US and canada, and when you are a big guy in school and coming up, school's have football and basketball programs, the larger athlete's get involved at a young age and stick with it, I believe if their were more boxing gyms around, like the way it was in the 40's and 50's, (shit their was a boxing gym on every corner in new york during those days), things would be different, example, I had to travel for 1 hour per day so I could go to the gym because their were none around where I lived and I started doing that in highschool, that takes a very big commitmet that not a lot of people are will to do, they need to bring back boxing into the HIGHSCHOOLS and UNIVERSITIES the way it used to be, (although it was very limited) that may be the biggest problem. you can get scolarships for all major sports why not boxing, football has just as many health risks, the schools need to get boxing back. that way amateur boxers that are good enough would be able to get scolarships and in turn be able to get an education (because in reality most amateur boxer never turn pro), it would simply be another outlet for people to better themselves.
a correction I had to travel 1 hour to get to the gym and then obviously 1 hour back so 2 hour travel time per day,(and when your going to school it does not leave you with any free time) I was happy to do it but for most it would not even be a consideration they would simply focus their attention on something else, which is deffinitly part of the problem
a correction I had to travel 1 hour to get to the gym and then obviously 1 hour back so 2 hour travel time per day,(and when your going to school it does not leave you with any free time) I was happy to do it but for most it would not even be a consideration they would simply focus their attention on something else, which is deffinitly part of the problem
Dude can you post this elsewhere (as in another forum)? No one reads your shit
It was boxing related and it did get a few comments. Unfortunately you like to nudge every post with negativity and it shows your mentality. If you don't like a post, don't read it... but I guess you feel better making remarks like a big boy!
Quote Originally Posted by EricLinny:
Dude can you post this elsewhere (as in another forum)? No one reads your shit
It was boxing related and it did get a few comments. Unfortunately you like to nudge every post with negativity and it shows your mentality. If you don't like a post, don't read it... but I guess you feel better making remarks like a big boy!
To me p4p has 2 sets of criteria, accomplishments and skill and talent, to me I put slightly more emphasis on skill and talent, that is why I have gillermo rigendeaux in my top 10.
9: Guillermo Rigondeaux
I thought skill and talents lead to accomplishments. Is accomplishments the by-product of a fighter skill and talent?
Quote Originally Posted by thesoulpurpose:
To me p4p has 2 sets of criteria, accomplishments and skill and talent, to me I put slightly more emphasis on skill and talent, that is why I have gillermo rigendeaux in my top 10.
9: Guillermo Rigondeaux
I thought skill and talents lead to accomplishments. Is accomplishments the by-product of a fighter skill and talent?
Taking a total perspective, let us use the NFL for example. Players who had high accomplishments and displayed extreme skill and talent were next about to take the NFL Combine. This test shows your athleticism and specialty. In the last decade of NFL drafts, the Combine was the biggest factor anymore like it was previously. Herschel Walker: He was a Heisman Trophy winner at Georgia, a star in the USFL and a
Pro Bowl player who had a combined 2,019 yards rushing and receiving
with the Cowboys in 1988. All of his success came as a classic
I-formation tailback who lined up 8 yards deep with a fullback in front
of him. In previous posts and stating about a certain boxer being on a different level than his opponent fits here. Walker had all the physical tools and was recognized as the most dominant college football player of all-time. He played I-formation in USFL and 1 year NFL for the Cowboys. Dallas traded him to Minnesota in what was the largest player trade in the history of the NFL, nicknamed "The Great Train Robbery". The trade ultimately involved 18 players and draft picks, still the
largest in NFL history. The Vikings surrendered five players, three of
them defensive starters, and eight draft picks, including three in the
first round, three in the second and one in the third. The Cowboys eventually packaged those picks for more picks or higher
ones while selecting players such as NFL career rushing leader Emmitt
Smith, defensive tackle and No. 1 overall pick Russell Maryland, safety
Darren Woodson, cornerback Kevin Smith, receiver Alvin Harper and
linebacker Dixon Edwards. They went from 1-15 in 1989 to winning Super
Bowls after the 1992, 1993 and 1995 seasons. Back to Herschel and his post Cowboys success. In Minnesota they were a split-back formation, which is a totally different setup from the I-formation. Herschel was asked to move closer to the line, split the backfield and do
things he just wasn't used to doing Recapping the post, Herschel was use to a one-dimensional formation despite his previously major success at Georgia, New Jersey and Dallas. Walker was considered the greatest athlete on the field with his speed, strength, stamina and size. Herschel received on the jokes after that but it must have been an honor and greatest compliment to be considered so valuable. Now take Floyd Mayweather as an example. We know he has speed, power, stamina, great reflexes and a very high ring IQ. In years to come when he truly retires, many people will scrutinize his victories and success. Manny on the other hand, seems willing to fight anyone. THE REASON THEY HAVE THE FIGHTS is so (besides entertainment) we don't have to guess anymore as THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS WILL SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES and not guessing on ability match-ups.
Taking a total perspective, let us use the NFL for example. Players who had high accomplishments and displayed extreme skill and talent were next about to take the NFL Combine. This test shows your athleticism and specialty. In the last decade of NFL drafts, the Combine was the biggest factor anymore like it was previously. Herschel Walker: He was a Heisman Trophy winner at Georgia, a star in the USFL and a
Pro Bowl player who had a combined 2,019 yards rushing and receiving
with the Cowboys in 1988. All of his success came as a classic
I-formation tailback who lined up 8 yards deep with a fullback in front
of him. In previous posts and stating about a certain boxer being on a different level than his opponent fits here. Walker had all the physical tools and was recognized as the most dominant college football player of all-time. He played I-formation in USFL and 1 year NFL for the Cowboys. Dallas traded him to Minnesota in what was the largest player trade in the history of the NFL, nicknamed "The Great Train Robbery". The trade ultimately involved 18 players and draft picks, still the
largest in NFL history. The Vikings surrendered five players, three of
them defensive starters, and eight draft picks, including three in the
first round, three in the second and one in the third. The Cowboys eventually packaged those picks for more picks or higher
ones while selecting players such as NFL career rushing leader Emmitt
Smith, defensive tackle and No. 1 overall pick Russell Maryland, safety
Darren Woodson, cornerback Kevin Smith, receiver Alvin Harper and
linebacker Dixon Edwards. They went from 1-15 in 1989 to winning Super
Bowls after the 1992, 1993 and 1995 seasons. Back to Herschel and his post Cowboys success. In Minnesota they were a split-back formation, which is a totally different setup from the I-formation. Herschel was asked to move closer to the line, split the backfield and do
things he just wasn't used to doing Recapping the post, Herschel was use to a one-dimensional formation despite his previously major success at Georgia, New Jersey and Dallas. Walker was considered the greatest athlete on the field with his speed, strength, stamina and size. Herschel received on the jokes after that but it must have been an honor and greatest compliment to be considered so valuable. Now take Floyd Mayweather as an example. We know he has speed, power, stamina, great reflexes and a very high ring IQ. In years to come when he truly retires, many people will scrutinize his victories and success. Manny on the other hand, seems willing to fight anyone. THE REASON THEY HAVE THE FIGHTS is so (besides entertainment) we don't have to guess anymore as THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS WILL SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES and not guessing on ability match-ups.
you are looking at it differently, skill and talent do lead to accomplishment, but you have to take skill and talent into consideration just a little more than accomplishment, maybe 55-45 other wise bernard hopkins would still have to be on everyones list, also, take gillermo rigindeaux for example, clearly one of the most skillful and talented fighters in the world, but has not yet had enough time to accomplish a great deal in the pro ranks, but in a p4p sence their are not a lot of guys that are better, so I put him in my top 10, to me it's about ranking who is the best, not like ranking them for a title shot, example, has pacquiao accomplished more than donaire? hell ya, but if they were the same size and fought, I would bet the house that donaire would kick his ass. I think right now donaire would kick everyones ass that's why I rank him number 1 p4p.
you are looking at it differently, skill and talent do lead to accomplishment, but you have to take skill and talent into consideration just a little more than accomplishment, maybe 55-45 other wise bernard hopkins would still have to be on everyones list, also, take gillermo rigindeaux for example, clearly one of the most skillful and talented fighters in the world, but has not yet had enough time to accomplish a great deal in the pro ranks, but in a p4p sence their are not a lot of guys that are better, so I put him in my top 10, to me it's about ranking who is the best, not like ranking them for a title shot, example, has pacquiao accomplished more than donaire? hell ya, but if they were the same size and fought, I would bet the house that donaire would kick his ass. I think right now donaire would kick everyones ass that's why I rank him number 1 p4p.
I have no problem with Nonito Donaire being currently ranked
the best pound-for-pound fighter (or among the highest) in boxing. He dominates
his division though in his level of competition has risen significantly, so did
his overall performance with eight knockouts his last ten bouts.The last ten
bouts his opposition was holding a record of 275 wins, 15 defeats, with 9 draws
which shows that his previous competition was only losing 5% of their fights.
Later I’ll post several
examples, techniques, and the different ways to uncover all our bias that resides
in us all. Soul, you will definitely enjoy this as I show major mistakes
(people, companies, families, etc) made at the helm of the most skilled in
order to prevent any problems. I will explain how the longer and more you
invest in a situation (spousal relationship, small home based to multi-billion
dollar business) the harder it is to stop even though the data shows that success
in showing any profit is less than 1%.
I have no problem with Nonito Donaire being currently ranked
the best pound-for-pound fighter (or among the highest) in boxing. He dominates
his division though in his level of competition has risen significantly, so did
his overall performance with eight knockouts his last ten bouts.The last ten
bouts his opposition was holding a record of 275 wins, 15 defeats, with 9 draws
which shows that his previous competition was only losing 5% of their fights.
Later I’ll post several
examples, techniques, and the different ways to uncover all our bias that resides
in us all. Soul, you will definitely enjoy this as I show major mistakes
(people, companies, families, etc) made at the helm of the most skilled in
order to prevent any problems. I will explain how the longer and more you
invest in a situation (spousal relationship, small home based to multi-billion
dollar business) the harder it is to stop even though the data shows that success
in showing any profit is less than 1%.
I thought skill and talents lead to accomplishments. 
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