comparison?

After watching the Pascal-Dawson fight, I couldn't help but see the similarities between this fight and the eventual Pacquiao-Mayweather fight. Mayweather like Dawson has the skills, height, reach - but he didn't take enough chances until it was too late. Mayweather oftentimes loses rounds to lesser fighters because of a lack of activity(De La Hoya, Castillo). I think Mayweather is better than Dawson, but I also think he takes even less chances than Dawson. Why did Mayweather not KO Marquez even though he had every concievable advantage and had him hurt? Hell why didn't he do more than just potshot and hold - BECAUSE HE'S A LITTLE BITCH that's why. After watching the Pascal-Dawson fight I noticed that the boxers with the highest "boxing IQ's" are rarely brave. This fight made me appreciate Juan Manuel Marquez more. In the rematch with Pacquiao,many of Marquez' counters were the result of him being in range, which put him at risk of punishment, but Marquez kept confidence in his intellect/skills against an opponent with an obvious athletic advantage. I give Pascal credit for fighting a "clever" (combos made it hard to counter him, stealing early rounds with late bursts of activity) fight, but I'm not convinced he's the better fighter. Anyhow if there is a rematch I think Dawson wins it hands down. I'm all over the place with my thoughts but I'm too tired to organize em right. But do yall feel me with the Mayweather-Pacman comparison? BTW, I don't have a pick for the Mayweather-Pacman fight. Mayweather has the physical tools and IQ to easily beat Pacman, but balls matter in boxing and Mayweather has none. I can see Mayweather landing lead rights, but I can also see Mayweather shitting in his trunks when Pacman ducks a lead right and fires a counter combo.

I really wish you hadn't posted that.

Hoya/Castillo? Oscar won like 3 rounds…4 max. Don't forget Mayweather had a weight DISADVANTAGE that night. Tha result was a UD in my eyes.

When Mayweather fought Castillo he had only been a pro for 6 years and Castillo had 50 fights and had been pro for 12 years, simple arithmetic shows thats double the time in pro ranks. Dude was sparring with Chavez for years. Mayweather had moved up in weight for that fight as well. Could be many reasons why Castillo had a good showing. Castillo hadn't lost in almost 10 fights during that time and had recently beat Stevie Johnston and thats when Johnston was still good.

That close fight in the 1st Castillo meet was never EVER reproduced, yet every single trainer and his mammy have tried to duplicate. Great fighters adapt and that method will not have the same result on Mayweather ever again. Oscar tried it and hit wind all night.

You "think" Mayweather is better than Dawson? Not even close. Dawson resembles certain aspects of Mayweather, even Jones a little, but thats about as far as it goes. Dawson's defense isn't on that level.

Mayweather was out of the ring for 2 years. Maybe thats the answer as to why he couldn't stop JMM. Maybe JMM deserves some credit as a tough sob as well. Dude has never ever been stopped.

Mayweather is a counter-puncher and does throw a lot of combinations. Not exactly "pot-shotting" imo. If thats the new slang term for a counter-puuncher, so be it. Mayweather has seen it all before and Pacquiao will get knocked out. Look at Pacs face after Clottey, bubbled…and I don't even remember Clottey landing anything of note.

When Pacquaio fights a top opponent at a non-catch weight against a fighter who's not on a losing streak and can produce the same result, he'll get credit. But until that time, dude is a cherry picking duck.

The official judges scores are what count ( I had Maywether 8 rounds to 4 in the DLH fight). The extra rounds given to DLH were because Mayweather was too cautious/inactive during those rounds. That's my main point. No excuses for Mayweather during the Castillo fight. If you think he's fast now he was even faster back then and was even KOing guys. I agree that JMM is a tough SOB, but Mayweather didn't even try for the KO even though he had every concievable advantage and had Marquez hurt at different points in the fight. Another comparison is how Dawson became accustomed to fighting old slow guys (Tarver, Johnson). The last time Mayweather fought a fast fighter in his prime was Hatton, who was not "that fast", wasn't fighting at his optimal weight, and Hatton proved to simply be a glorified club fighter(plus I maintain Mayweather cheated his ass off in that fight by constantly holding, using his elbow, and keeping his glove in Hatton's face to blind him - all illegal but never called because of a carreer worst performance by Joe Cortez). We have to go back to 2006 when Mayweather fought Judah (who BTW scored a knockdown that wasn't called) and if Judah had better stamina and wasn't so mentally weak (he caves in psychologically)(Pacquiao is a true warrior with great stamina), Judah couldv'e won a dec. Another point is Mayweather doesn't throw combos until he knows his oppenent has turned a corner. Other than that he is a pure potshotter. Having said all that I agree Mayweather is way better than Dawson and even Pacquiao. And I agree that Pacquiao's team has been "choosing" opponents as obviously as Mayweather's team. Roach is keeping Pac away from fighters who have a good right hand and know how to keep their distance. All of Pacquiao's recent opponents have been lefthand dominant (Margarito, Cotto, Hatton , Barrera, De La Hoya - Clottey had different glaring weaknesses). Roach was preaching pressure to De La Hoya when he was training him for Mayweather. And though he lost, the tactic had some success. The fact that Roach trained DLH for that fight makes him better equipped to fight Mayweather again, but this time with an athletic, in his prime, southpaw. As I stated before I don't have a pick for the mega fight, but all I see is Mayweather potshoting with lead rights and I think that just might not be enough. Mayweather considers himself the greatest of all time, but I have no doubt that Sugar Ray leonard and Tommy Hearns would beat Pacquiao. I have my doubts about Mayweather.

The official judging is NOt always what counts. Whats on paper is not always the truth. If that was the case Calzaghe is the greatest, yet he fought green no0bs and over the hill once was'.

You and everybody else knows DAMN well what I mean by potshot. Boxing wise, there's only a negative connotation attached if it doesn't get the job done. Hitting and not getting hit hit is cool, but oftentimes that strategy it isn't enough against a fast combination puncher (ask Dawson). So far, it's gotten the job done for Mayweather but nobody's perfect.

I completely disagree about pressuring Mayweather. If you have the stamina and your pressure is intelligent why not? Pascal was clever last night in that he would stay out of range and then explode with short combos that are difficult to counter because of their speed and variance(body-head, different angles). The problem is compounded if youv'e conceded that your opponent is stronger than you (Pascal hurt Dawson to the body various times - probably why Dawson looked sluggish). I'm not saying Maywether can't counter Pacquiao, but Mayweather's little nuts make the situation more difficult for him. Dawson waited too much for the "right opportunities" and like Mayweather he didn't have a "FINISHER'S INSTINCT". That costed him the fight.

When I say Pacquiao is a warrior I mean he's not afraid of getting hit - that doesn't mean he has no defense. Mayweather sometimes loses rounds because... HE'S AFRAID OF GETTING HIT. 

When it comes to winning, the judges scorecards are the ONLY thing that matters. YOU might score extra rounds for Mayweather on "ring generalship" but everyone knows that in close rounds the judges reward the more active fighter and are often influenced by the crowd's cheers for that more active fighter.

As I've stated a million times before I don't have a pick for the mega fight. Mayweather has the skills and physical tools to easily beat Pacquiao but BALLS MATTER ALOT IN BOXING and Mayweather's are tiny.

No, I didn't know dam well what you meant. Which is why I replied in such fashion. What I do know is people often attach their own personal definition to words when they shouldn't.

Sorry, typo here:

De la Hoya's pressure was smarter because he had a better jab of course but, only for the first 7 rounds (stamina problems). I liked Castillo's overall pressure more. It was more suffocating. I give Mayweather alot of credit for how he reacted to Mosley's rights in the second round, but I still think a prime Mosley would have finished him and a prime De la Hoya would have won a dec at 147 (no weight advantage). I'm talking about the versions of Mosley and De la Hoya that fought at the Staples Center in their first match versus each other.

How would you, McNulty, train a fghter to beat Mayweather. I liked Pascal's tactics last night. Add more pressure and the occasional left lead potshot for variance, and be ready to counter Mayweather's most likely attacks (the jab and lead right), also mix in different tactics to throw off Mayweather's IQ/adjustment advantage.

To beat Pacquiao you have to be ready for war regardless of your gameplan, because Pacquiao is not above taking punishment to dish out his own. I seriously think that thought makes Mayweather nervous. Also even if your opponent is stronger you should force the fight in the last 10 seconds of every round to try and "steal it". The last ten seconds is the best time to put yourself at risk, because if you do get hurt, you have just a few seconds to the bell and then you get a minute to clear your head. I'm sure you already know this but its crazy how the weaker fighter in fights doesn't utilize this tactic more. Pascal was doing that last night too.

BTW I'm really enjoying this discussion. Just curious, are you a pro gambler or is it just a hobby? What's your boxing background? I ask this because I highly respect your opinions.

When the mega fight occurs I hope to see Mayweather come forward. As great as Pacquiao is he still can't fight going backwards.

Wow!!! Quite an emotional Issue I see, so none of my opinions are meant to disrespect anyone else. I stand somewhere in the middle of both you guys.

The 1st remark I'd like to make is this..... Anyone who is willing to lace up a pair of gloves & fight on a professional level has to have a big pair of Balls. Boxing is one of the most gut checking sports on the planet.

My observations about Pac-man

In all my years of watching & being around the boxing game, I have never seen a fighter make improvements the way Manny Pacquiao  has. If you watch his earlier fights & compare them to his most recent preformances, you might think you are watching 2 different boxers. It used to be be walk straight in jab, jab cross ...over & over again. True he always had great quickness but was easy for a true veteran to ultimately figure out. That's why JMM did so well in the latter rounds after he was knocked down a number of times. He was then able to time most of Pac-man offensive assaults after a while. The new & improved Pac-man

1.Body punches...much more effectively

2. Utilizes angles & rarely comes straight in while moving his head.

3.Seems even faster although moving up in weight exponentially.

4. Can take a hell of a punch & walk right through them (although again getting hit by bigger & stronger opponents)

At first I thought this had to be the greatest training job in modern history, & Roach must be a boxing wizard. Now I'm not so sure Roach can get ALL of the credit. It's no secret that 99% of the boxing community thinks that Pac-man has been juicing over the last few years. His willingness to give up a millions of $$$ because he claimed to be afraid of needles (among various other excuses) is ludicrous. Just like in baseball... Cheating should not be rewarded or glorified

Continued

I don't believe in stealing rounds and I've read that quite a few name judges feel the same. Probably has to do with what I've read and how I was trained. Which is, you shouldn't have to steal a round if you did enough for the 1st 2:30. Tarver comes to mind, he'll fight for 1 minute to :30 seconds of every round.

Floyd Mayweather


PBF is quite an enigma to me. Definitely had the potential to to be rated with the greatest fighters of all time. Speed, ring intelligence, timing, defensive skills...this guy has it all. There's only one major thing that he lacks......an ability to put on an exciting show.

Floyd is overwhelmingly a safety first fighter. He just hates to take unnecessary chances & expose himself to any counter punches. Unfortunately this can create a rather boring boxing experience for the fan. I have also used the term potshot-er to describe some of his offensive boxing strategies. It's a boxing term & not meant to be taken literally. I will say this about him....He is one of the best DEFENSIVE fighters I have ever seen in the last few decades. Offensively?? He leaves a lot to be desired because of his unwillingness to engage in exchanges (even though he has the much faster hand speed). I also rarely see him punch in combination unless he has his man badly hurt. Having said all this ....There is one cold hard fact. The man never loses..... so he has to be doing something very right.

As for a Mayweather= Pacquiao match-up


A year ago I loved Pacquiao's chances...not so much anymore.


Just from what I have observed over the last year makes me believe that that Mayweather has completely gotten into Pacquiao's head. The enhancement drug issue cannot be undervalued as the mental aspect plays out before such a fight. Does Pacquiao even think he can win this fight if forced to box on the natch? After examining some of the recent evidence, I have very strong doubts about this question. No point in going over all the stylistic match-ups, if one fighter loses all his confidence before even stepping into the ring. That's just my quick take & I've enjoyed reading the other posts in this thread.

We have more in common than I thought. I got fired from my job about a year ago then went on a SUPER-HOT streak and I consider myself a pro gambler now since my only income is 5dimes. LOL! Seriously. I'm looking for a decent part-time job now however for a proof-of-income since I'm trying to buy a new car.

I like how you said you have a 25 points sheet. I don't have one of those but there are many things I take into account when capping. I watch boxing religously (and only boxing)(other sports I only watch for entertainment), I take notes on fighters' every fight on an alphabetically organized spreadsheet, I have 2 DVRs almost filled to capacity with only boxing, 2 harddrives filled with capacity etc..I'm a boxing freak. Every girl I've ever dated thinks I have a crazy addiction to gambling since I always lie about how much I win (I oftentimes say I lost because there are alot of golddiggers out there) yet spend so much time watching boxing and I always say the same thing, "BITCH! If I had a true addiction to gambling you'd see me at the dogtracks, horesetracks, buying lottery tickets and going to casinos and shit! Do you see me doing that? Then shut the fuck up!"

LOL! Seriously.

As far as Mayweather-Pacman, I like Mayweather but he'll prbably be somewhere around -190. I want better value. I'll wait for the "Mayweather by any dec" prop to come out so I don't have to worry about Pacman's huge steriod/growth-hormone enlarged head busting open a cut on Mayweather .

BTW, This is a kick-ass forum.

Can someone tell me how to get a picture in my avatar? Stupid question I know but seriously, how is it done?