100 Middleweights (All 96 Champions) Who was the best?

I listed every middleweight champion ever and a few other greats.
In bold are my top 20. See below for credit for ideas and posts.

Al McCoy
Alan Minter
Armand Krajnc
Arthur Abraham
Bernard Hopkins
Bert Schenk
Billy Papke
Billy Soose
Bob Fitzsimmons
Bobo Olson
Carlos Monzon
Carmen Basilio
Ceferino Garcia
Charles Burley (Non-Champ)
Chris Eubank
Chris Pyatt
Daniel Geale
Dick Tiger
Dmitry Pirog
Doug DeWitt
Eddie Babe Risko
Emile Griffith
Ezzard Charles (Non-Champ;beat Burley twice)
Felix Sturm
Félix Trinidad
Frank Klaus
Frank Tate
Fred Apostoli
Freddie Steele
Gene Fullmer
Gennady Golovkin
George Chip
Gerald McClellan
Gorilla Jones
Hacine Cherifi
Harry Greb
Harry Simon
Hector Javier Velazco
Hugo Pastor Corro
Iran Barkley
Jack (John Edward) "Nonpareil" Dempsey
Jake LaMotta
James Toney
Jason Matthews
Javier Castillejo
Jermain Taylor
Joey Giardello
John David Jackson
Johnny Wilson
Jorge Fernando Castro
Julian Jackson
Julio Cesar Chavez, Jr.
Julio César Green
Keith Holmes
Kelly Pavlik
Ken Overlin
Kid McCoy
Lonnie Bradley
Lou Brouillard
Marcel Cerdan
Marcel Thil
Marvin Hagler
Maselino Masoe
Michael Nunn
Mickey Walker
Mike McCallum
Mike O'Dowd
Nigel Benn
Nino Benvenuti
Oscar De La Hoya
Otis Grant
Paul Pender
Quincy Taylor
Randy Turpin
Reggie Johnson
Roberto Durán
Rocky Graziano
Rodrigo Valdez
Roy Jones Jr (beat a 22-1 Hopkins;1 loss was initial debut 4rnd)
Sebastian Sylvester
Sebastian Zbik
Sergio Gabriel Martínez
Shinji Takehara
Solly Krieger
Stanley Ketchel
Steve Collins
Sugar Ray Leonard
Sugar Ray Robinson
Sumbu Kalambay
Teddy Yarosz
Terry Downes
Thomas Hearns
Tiger Flowers
Tommy Ryan
Tony Zale
Vince Dundee
Vito Antuofermo
William Joppy

After a post by the soulpurpose regarding a new thread on Bernard Hopkins place in history, I thought that it might be more interesting placing, ranking and hypothetical match-ups of all the great middleweights ever. I listed 100 and in bold are 21 (Hopkins & 20 others). I've viewed many lists in the past and find it difficult that people don't rank McClellan, but can rank fighters on not footage but records alone. How McClellan dominated was sensational (and Nigel Benn was a beast in the ring) besides a great record and 95% KO on wins, and 85% KO percentage overall). Since many people have very different opinions I have made a list of almost every Middleweight Champion in history to start. I'm sure people can add contenders and we can throw out 80% right away, I just figured let's start a complete list (champions) and go form there. Thanks to the several other regular forum members that constantly contribute and it's these memembers that actively help post good information on boxing and welcome new members.

 

1.Harry Greb
2. Sugar Ray robinson
3. Marvin Hagler

Greb is many peoples top pick and rightfully so. Robinson was the greatest welterweight in my view and his most dominating performances were prior to his films. He was forced into middleweight. I always had a few favorites (not always the best) and Hagler was one of mine. Monzon and Fitzsimmons are among peoples tops, along with Burley who never got the title shot and the Great Ezzard Charles beat Burley twice. Charles would fight any weight they wanted! Zale and Cerdan rank high among other lists. I yet to see McClellen listed and not many of the fighters listed could hang with him. Hopkins is still fighting so many don't rank him yet, but as a middleweight he won't be again so how he does at light-heavyweight is irrelevant. It only make his pound-for-pound increase if he beats Dawson and etc...

1 Hagler
2 Robinson
3 Monzon
4 Roy Jr
5 Greb

Have not seen Charles as a middleweight.  Cerdan was amazing vs Zale, but cant match the speed of the above.  Hagler's force of will could've overcome Robinson past his prime.  Roy's speed and size would cause problems Mr Greb.  Monzon too crafty for Roy.
Curious to see a Charles Burley fight. 

Oh yeah, you left Ray Leonard off your top 20?
IMO, he outclasses Fitzimmons, Zale, and McClellan in their own era.  Should be at least in top 20

to me CARLOS MONZON is number 1, he fought the last 13 years of his career without a loss, a span of 81 fights and retired as the middle weight champ, making 14 defences, he is also in my opinion the greatest fighter in the history of boxing at using his reach, he was as skillful as any middleweight ever,     2, HARRY GREB, is sometimes my number 1 depending on what day that you ask me, gets my vote as the toughest prizefighter who ever lived and the middleweight who fought the most and longest at the highest level,     3, BERNARD HOPKINS, so skillfull, so smart, it's between him and charley burley in terms of the greatest defensive fighter in the history of the division, people will always remember the trinidad fight and as they should, but take a look at the second echols fight, when he fought the last few rounds using one hand as he injured his shoulder, or the keith holmes fight, bernard was so aggressive, yet still never got hit cleanly, 20 defences,      Zouk, you highlighted basilio,  carmen was not very sucessfull at middle weight, other than the first fight with robinson, he lost the rematch and got stopped 2 times against fullmer and also lost his last one against pender, one of the great welterweights for sure, but not middleweights though.     I would also like to throw a shout out to guys who were good enough, but because of racism and their unwillingness to cooperated with the mob never got to say they were a champ, but were certinly good enough, charley burley, holoman williams, eddie booker, the coca kid, george benton R.I.P,   I  have burley in my top 10.

all time middleweight dream matches,   robinson vs burley, burley was the only man robinson ducked.(in robinsons defence he was a business man first and their was no money in a burley fight even though giving him a shot was the right thing to do)  gene fullmer vs lamotta,  zale vs mccallum, some one would be pissing blood, probly both of them, monzon vs hopkins, chess match of the highest order,  hagler vs giardello, I thing joey would box his ears off,  greb vs ketchel, greb came straight at you, his defence was his offence, ketchel was my most likely the hardest punching middleweight of all time, could greb's chin hold up against ketchel's power? I say no, I like ketchel in this one. to beat ketchel you have to outbox him, you can go to war. 

 charley burley's fight vs billy smith in on youtube,  It is the only fight existing of him on film,  although a few more were said to have been taped, they are currently lost in the archives, It proves that he was one of the greats

I meant to say that you can't go to war with ketchel and win, no middleweight could, ketchel is top 10 in my books

Thanks!  Amazingly entertaining.  Wish he would've had his shot

Leonard had 2 middleweight fights. He won a split decision over Hagler after getting the choice of gloves, weight, ring size, purse, etc... and a loss to Camacho (way past prime). Including all middleweight classes, he had 6 others that were light-middleweight or super-middleweight. A loss to Norris, he beat a fat Duran, got a lucky draw against Hearns (robbery), and beat 3 opponents that were nothing but pumped up wins against no competition. Yes, he had the talent, and an all time great, but considering the opposition and how he did around middleweight I can't place him above fighters who earned their place in that division. Yes, Leonard pound-for-pound goes down ahead of these fighters (except maybe a few like Greb, etc..) because his welterweight dominance. Earlier in his career he did fight above 147lbs several times in 1978-1979 but it considered a welterweight match. This was similar to point of Floyd Mayweather, I know how elite he is and his skill, but he had chosen the path of least resistance and money over competing at the highest level possible. Common these days, that's why old time fighters get the nod, and back then when you see a loss here and there on these former warriors, remember they fought constantly and always in shape... and sometimes if they ever wanted a title shot no matter who they were they sometimes had to take a dive!

"The Hawk", Julian Jackson was the hardest one punch fighter not only for middleweights, but pound-for-pound is among the top off  the all-time ranks.
I have weighted rank systems, some are heavy weighted for top 3, some are more neutral and go according to how many times fighters appear in top 5, or top 10 lists. It was a common way they used different methods to rank horses through opinions and show the results of each simulation, and several AI types that included opinions, records, how many fights, time period, KO percentage, etc... if we can compile a list for each division as I proposed a long time ago, then the pound-for-pound will give people a knew grasp and you won't have so many heavyweights listed and the lists that don't included Sam Langford, a guy no one wanted to fight... Liston, Foreman, and Tyson may have been known to be the most feared or intimidated but Langford was the most feared by fighters. For those who didn't know, Langford fought at what now is light welterweight early on, and you could consider him as a great middleweight (he was tough at any weight). If he wasn't black Canadian (and so feared) he would be mention like Armstrong. Although the 30's were no picnic for blacks, the turn of the 20th century it was barely over a generation Blacks were free and barely. Fighting in 1902 (Langford) was not fun for Blacks as they had to be quiet and do what they were told. In the 1930s (Armstrong's Era) is was turbulent for Blacks but the Great Depression provided opportunities and many average inner city white Americans found them mixing with other non-white minorities especially in L.A. with Mexican and Filipino population. The difference in those 30 years was previously Blacks were limited and the hatred was high because many were still alive from the Civil War Era. In 1930 very few people existed from the Civil War or were infants at the time so hiring Blacks to do work wasn't considered outrageous as 30 years prior. Sorry for the lecture (written) but I want the average person not as familiar with culture status to realize that opportunities had begun to open up even with the ongoing racial struggles. After the Civil War it was somewhat worse for Black Americans as they were free but in a way very limited and walked on eggshells 24-7! Imagine you were a black fighter and fighting a white upcoming prospect, you think if they were told to lose they would refuse and endanger not only themselves but their families. The 1930s weren't much greater, but you did have people investing money into Black employers and fighters, so they had more opportunities. Thanks for those patient enough to read a long winded post, but I think it helps people who are uncertain gain a new perspective regarding black like and it included boxers as well.

Bad bennie briscoe out of philly fought Monzon to a draw in 67 and then fought him for the title in 72 and lost a close decision. He fought everybody who was anybody in the middleweight class. He was one of them guys who never got the tough decisions cause he wasn't a mob guy either. He worked on a trash truck as his other job. Tough as they come and at that time philly was full of tough fighters.

bennie was bad, tough s.o.b., he was one of the best bodypunchers that the game has ever seen as well,     I have mentioned CHARLEY BURLEY as one of my top ten middleweights ever, burley too had to work a day job throughout his career,    and in one of theGREATEST SPORTS STORIES that I have ever heard,   burley was working at his day job as a loader at the airport, he got a call saying that ARCHIE MOORE'S  oppenent had pulled out of their fight that was scheduled for later that night, so burley finished out his day shift at the airport, traveled from pittsburgh to chicago and then proceeded to beat the hell out of one of the greatest fighters who ever lived, after moore's career was over he said that burley was the best fighter that he had ever faced, that is saying alot as moore fought everyone. Imagine how much better burley could of been if he did not have to work a day job and could focus solely on boxing,    eddie futch one of the best trainers ever, called bulrey the best all round fighter that he had ever saw and  futch saw them all.

RIP: The King of Trainers "Papa" Futch: Made a heavyweight champ out of a lazy semi-skilled fighter. Bowe had great inside fighting for a big man as he hunched often. He had the toughest heavyweights heart that would really die in the ring. I know many fighters say that but they get KOd in a puposeful way... Frazier in Manilla (one eyed most his career) wanted to fight 15th, Ali wanted to quit. thesoulpurpose- Nice throwback regarding Futch.

boxing fans, for those who are looking to purchase fights from the past, go to www.Ringwise.com,  it's kurt noltimer's website, I beleive that he currently has the biggest fight collection in the world, well over 30,000 fights, all the way back to corbitt vs fitzsimmons  to the 42 rounder between gans vs nelson, to mayweather vs ortiz, he's got them all,  he charges between 15 to 25 dollars per fight,                and just for the record since GREB has been mentioned numerous times in the thread and we all know that their is not any of his fights availible on film (although his fight with micky walker and both with tiger flowers as well as one of the loughran and tunney fights were said to have been taped but they have been lost in the archives) their is a few training sessions of greb availible on the net, just under 10 min in total for those interested. just google   harry greb training session.

Anyone think Julian Jackson was a top middlweight KO puncher? I say pound-for-pound, he ranks near the top of any list. Many fighters that are super muscular ripped lack power (Bruce Seldon) and general public doesn't realize it has nothing to do with looks, take Tim Witherspoon when he was overweight (lazy fighter) but had a super overhand right. Jackson's back had muscles all over and he threw many arm and just upperbody punches with little torque or leverage from his legs, and still sent people to sleep with one shot. Terry Norris was a victim.Heavyweights: People know Foreman had freak power, Tyson had power with leverage, speed, accuracy, etc... Liston and Joe Louis were considered heavy hittersa as was Marciano especially for the weight he fought at.

The gloves were 6-8oz (occassionally 10oz), but they were horse-hair slugger gloves. This is a very important to how and why Marciano was so effective. At the start of the fight, both opponents wearing the same type of glove, it was equal. Unlike today's gloves, as the fight went on and sweat poured into them, naturally the knuckles would be exposed as the padding was moved to the sides. Here is the kicker, the more punches you landed, the more often gloves would shift the padding, and each side of the glove became so impacted that each pounch contained nearly bare knuckles and an even proportion on power and made the first almost double in size. This took many rounds of sweat and punches, but the glove became similar to what Margarito was accused of regarding the plaster. For those unfamiliar it had 3 major advantages, as the fight goes on and they harden each punch is harder then earlier rounds. Secondly, the plaster also made a frame so that punches that didn't connect with the entire fist still had a major imact because the plaster frame becomes like a bare knuckles and also distributes the weight nearly evenly (That's why boxers that make a fist and you have very little bulges or uneven structure, and the fist is nearly flat across {like a ruler flat over knuckles and they all touch evenly} helps leverage if you so each punch has a considerable impact). Marciano would throw so many punches all over that by the 8th round his gloves had him almost bare knucled and the index and pinky figers had 2-4 inches laterally each side, and the gloves now had hard compacted ends and made his fist nearly double in size. Also, it had the plaster effect in the sense that normal gloves and connect with a guy as he leans back with your ring and pinky fingers part of the glove (20% maximum power connect), now plaster framed the glove making like a steel bar across the front and would give greater impact (maybe 35% Maximum) and was harder than bare knuckles. Now to a tenth round glove Marciano used, he would connect with the ring and pinky finger area and add 2 more inches of hardened materials (the more of the glove you connect, naturally the power increases) so it generated around 60-70% maximum power output and the entire area of that glove was hard. You have more power, a larger frame (like a hand around 150% or more in width, and completely compacted) for a higher connect rate. That's why in late rounds (besides fatigue) it appears Marciano wore his opponent down and the punches appear harder. Marciano was a beast and could punch all day and now had an advantage of working hard and a high punch rate connecting (he punched arms, shoulders, chest, wherever it was legal) made that glove a weapon on a beast of a man! The other advantage Marciano had (and people who cheat and have plaster) realize that their glove will get harder and more effective as rounds go on giving them incentive to continue and stay in the fight as it's just time before they can get the glove advantage. Sounds similar to Cotto-Margarito, that was one of Cotto's most devastating offensive attacks he ever mounted but Margarito hung on and turned the tide. Margarito throws sloppy wild punches that aren't crisp, now you have him take a severe beating (the man regardless of cheating or not, doesn't quit... even Manny wrecked him but he kept coming) and now his punches cut and shred Cotto. Watching Margarito's previous fights with Paul Williams, Citron, etc... I seen him fight to the end but he rallied in fights but not in devastating KO form. You think when Mosley's corner had Margarito re-wrap and lace new gloves, psychologically Margarito worried. Knowing you have that reserve the opponent won't is a huge reassurance, take that away by suprise minutes before the fight and the psychology is reversed.

as for the first part of you question, ketchel would be my pick as hardest middleweight puncher of all time,  as for the glove debate, the gloves are made much better today than in the past, what margarito did, is cheating, but not nearly as bad a people think, more designed for protection his own hands than anything, might add some weight to his hands, therefore giving him extra  power on impact, but also slowing down his punches expecially as the fight progresses,  as far as old school gloves as the padding moved around in the gloves, as a fighter you don't want your bare knuckle to be hitting your man, maybe if the fight was 1 or 2 rounds you would, but after that you would simply injure your hands, that's why they invented gloved in the first place.  bare knuckle guys were breaking their hands left right and center, for any one who has ever been in a streetfight, imagine having to go 12 rounds like that, your hands would be in a cast for months, I want padding in my gloves, not the other way around, if your a true puncher it does not matter what glove you have, if your a pure boxer you want the softer gloves (everlast)     as for todays gloves reyes and grant are the hardest  made from horse hair, everlast and winning are the softer gloves and rival gloves are in the middle.   the best way to get a advantage in power in today's glove is what us boxers call skinning the glove, that is when you wrap the tape that starts at your wrist as far up the glove as possible, therefore protecting your hands more and making the glove harder at the same time ( skinning pushes most of the padding to the front of the glove)

I'm very familair with skinning (also, that's why having a guy like Steward announcing can explain the intricacies of boxing; as he did a very good job for the public to understand about skinning previous to a fight this year) myself.
Many years ago it was constantly said Tyson is going to MMA (UFC at the time). The reason were several. Tyson had was losing fan appeal in boxing and watching him fight with 4oz gloves would be exciting. The original problem was the old UFC format was an elimination contest and many fighters had to fight in a manner that also allowed them to limit their injuries. So the gameplan was different. The concern back then for Tyson was that he stood a good chance to break his fist, wrist, forearm , etc and wouldn't be able to continue. Then the format changed to single fight matchups thus more suited for Tyson to engage. Also, for those who don't remember the very first UFC bouts a boxer had enetered and wore a boxing glove (8oz-12oz) on his jabbing hand to protect it. Unfortunately for him he was taken down and submitted very quickly. This was the early days when jiu jitsu (or any wrestling submission fighters) totally dominated. This led to fighters of striking background to learn enough grappling and ground techniques to help defend against submission. They weren't taught how to apply these techniques but more a crash course on what and what not to do in the prone position. I think it was Maurice Smith (kickboxer) who defeated Mark Coleman (wrestler) in a championship match. Now just about every fighter is cross-trained to be able to defend against any style and with time develop the offensive tools of another style.
For those interested in a little MMA history (not 100% certain about all the facts but I'm confident if memory serves corrrect):
-Art Jimmerson was the fighter who wore one glove had lost to UFC champion Royce Gracie in the initial debut of UFC (UFC 1). -For those not familiar it wasn't until UFC 14 (1997) that gloves were required. They had to be between 4oz-6oz with one inch padding over the knuckles with open fingers to allow fighters to grab.
-Melton Bowen was the first fighter to wear (UFC 4) what is now the standard MMA type glove.
The first well known boxer to enter mainstream MMA was Ray "Merciless Mercer, who in 2007 lost to Kimbo Slice by submission in his MMA debut. He then won in 2009 by one punch knock-out in 9 seconds versus Tim Sylvia.

also said, if you wrap your hand wraps a certain way than moving the padding to the side can be very effective ala panama lewis, but with today's gloves you can not move the padding. in the past you could do it, but risk injury to your own hands at the same time, it's a double edge sword. (go for the early ko, or risk breaking your hands) I prefer using you skill to win a fight as most fighters do

Marvin Hagler

  Good argument. 

HatOnBed : Thank you for the compliment. Even though you might still feel Leonard ranks among them, I'm glad to see you appreciate my view. GL!