Question for libertarians

Question

https://www.nationalmemo.com/libertarianisms-achilles-heel/

ClubDirt · Answer

https://www.nationalmemo.com/libertarianisms-achilles-heel/

SarasotaSlim · Answer

Eddie Snowden is a Ron Paul libertarian who mistakenly believed in Obama&#x27;s promises.....would like to hear his reply to the "Q"..

14daroad · Answer

EJ Dionne is not a libertarian nor does he understand what libertarians are for.Which is reason 4,213 I don&#x27;t read "National Memo"

rick3117 · Answer

could someone sum up the question for me?

14daroad · Answer

This article makes it sounds like he was all caught up in the hopey-changey and got all hurt when Barry didn't live up to his expectations:

the election of Barack Obama in 2008 gave him hope that there would be real reforms, rendering disclosures unnecessary.

He left the CIA in 2009 in order to take his first job working for a private contractor that assigned him to a functioning NSA facility, stationed on a military base in Japan. It was then, he said, that he "watched as Obama advanced the very policies that I thought would be reined in", and as a result, "I got hardened."

https://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance

ClubDirt · Answer

Libertarians have the virtue, in principle at least, of a very clear &#xD;&#xA;creed: They believe in the smallest government possible, longing for &#xD;&#xA;what the late philosopher Robert Nozick, in his classic book Anarchy, State and Utopia,&#xD;&#xA; called &#x201C;the night-watchman state.&#x201D; Anything government does beyond &#xD;&#xA;protecting people from violence or theft and enforcing contracts is seen&#xD;&#xA; as illegitimate.&#x201C;If libertarians are correct in claiming that they understand how best &#xD;&#xA;to organize a modern society, how is it that not a single country in the&#xD;&#xA; world in the early 21st century is organized along libertarian lines?&#x201D;

speak2truth · Answer

^Because any government ALWAYS wants to exceed both it&#x27;s size and its authority, thus it can never remain libertarian.&#xD;&#xA;This is the fourth law of thermodynamics.

potter36 · Answer

[Quote: Originally Posted by ClubDirt]  Libertarians have the virtue, in principle at least, of a very clear &#xD;&#xA;creed: They believe in the smallest government possible, longing for &#xD;&#xA;what the late philosopher Robert Nozick, in his classic book Anarchy, State and Utopia,&#xD;&#xA; called &#x201C;the night-watchman state.&#x201D; Anything government does beyond &#xD;&#xA;protecting people from violence or theft and enforcing contracts is seen&#xD;&#xA; as illegitimate.&#x201C;If libertarians are correct in claiming that they understand how best &#xD;&#xA;to organize a modern society, how is it that not a single country in the&#xD;&#xA; world in the early 21st century is organized along libertarian lines?&#x201D;  [/Quote]I think its a simple case of "you can&#x27;t get there from here".  Most of the of the overall idea would be successful if it could only be implemented.  Unfortunately, it would have to mean the majority of citizens of a country were honorable, responsible, and intelligent.  instead the population makeups of most counties are subject to one or more combinations of traits that just won&#x27;t allow it to happen.  Greed, laziness, dependency,  apathy, etc. lead the way eventually for nations.

TILTOLOGIC · Answer

Dionne is a sad sad case really, imagine sounding like him and still having to look at yourself in the mirror everyday.

“If libertarians are correct in claiming that they understand how best to organize a modern society, how is it that not a single country in the world in the early 21st century is organized along libertarian lines?”

Nothing is discredited by its absence, only by its failure. The Republic established by the Founders was not discredited because it had not existed previously...like I siad before, Dionne is an idiot.

The Republic of the United States of America established the most free and independent citizenry on the planet. Just because greed and the lust for power by worthless politicians has thwarted its continuance does not mean it did not exist.

Everyone should be libertarian to some degree, it should transcend partisan bull garbage. Those opposed want to control you and your lifestyle. And those are the people who should be raising eyebrows and getting looked at by the NSA.

rick3117 · Answer

[Quote: Originally Posted by ClubDirt]  Libertarians have the virtue, in principle at least, of a very clear &#xD;&#xA;creed: They believe in the smallest government possible, longing for &#xD;&#xA;what the late philosopher Robert Nozick, in his classic book Anarchy, State and Utopia,&#xD;&#xA; called &#x201C;the night-watchman state.&#x201D; Anything government does beyond &#xD;&#xA;protecting people from violence or theft and enforcing contracts is seen&#xD;&#xA; as illegitimate.&#x201C;If libertarians are correct in claiming that they understand how best &#xD;&#xA;to organize a modern society, how is it that not a single country in the&#xD;&#xA; world in the early 21st century is organized along libertarian lines?&#x201D;  [/Quote]this is a ridiculous question.  It is like saying if peace is so desirable why have we been at war for so long?We could never have a purely Libertarian country because - people want stuff from the govt.-govt wants to have power over people-power comes through exercise of authority. The point of Libertarian Ideology is to move the pendulum towards libertarianism, it is a natural response to the astounding size and scope of our current gov.  Our country was founded on Libertarian principles.

ClubDirt · Answer

with some minor exceptions, some good responses. my answer wouldn't be anything new. it's obviously complicated but like rick said, you're going to have people who are lazy and don't take responsibility for themselves who will then rely on the government to make up the difference. the government will be inclined to help because that will be a market for votes. we'll call them democrats. on the other end of the spectrum, there will be greed and people who can never have enough at the expense of other people and who will see an opportunity to influence the government to create an even better environment for them.

now, if you had government officials who were committed to government only when necessary, neither of these problems would increase government because both sides would be rejected. but for many reasons, one of which is that government has become such a power and money grab, we have government that never misses an opportunity to increase its size and reach and do whatever it takes to keep those high reward, low risk, low effort jobs.

ClubDirt · Answer

take a look at the patriot act.  it&#x27;s a blank check for bigger government, as if the government needed any more justification.  when republicans are in power, they use it to their advantage and once the latest terrorist act dies down, the democrats complain about losing freedoms or some nonsense.  then democrats take over and we see they do the same garbage and maybe the republicans will try to use it against obama so they can get back into power and resume their position of using these same tools to run big government their preferred way.those are allegedly the two opposing side in our system.  but of course they are largely the same.  that&#x27;s how government acts no matter who is in charge.  if both do it, and they do, libertarians have no chance.  these libertarian ideals are just something the out of power side uses as talking points to complain about big government until they get the reigns and can max out government for their benefit.

kaponofor3 · Answer

So this is the question? "&#x201C;If libertarians are correct in claiming that they understand how &#xD;&#xA;best to organize a modern society, how is it that not a single country &#xD;&#xA;in the world in the early 21st century is organized along libertarian &#xD;&#xA;lines?&#x201D;&#xD;&#xA;In other words, &#x201C;Why are there no libertarian countries?&#x201D;"Kinda seems like a silly question to me to be honest. I&#x27;d say that there is no country in the 21st century organized along libertarian lines because libertarianism requires and relies upon human actors to willingly sacrifice power in exchange for both collective and individual liberty -- something that most people (especially those who seek positions in government) are unwilling to do.

ClubDirt · Answer

i don&#x27;;t think it&#x27;s a silly question when you consider how many people want to call themselves libertarians and how many people and politicians want to say how "small government" they are.  ok, if this is such a popular thing to say, where is it working?  show us an example?  maybe the question isn&#x27;t as silly as the silly disingenuous things politicians and people say they are in favor of.

rick3117 · Answer

The Swiss?

LVTruck · Answer

ClubDirt, you should run for some kind of public office, we need a few people that can think outside the Box...

But it all comes down to the Hair, Seems like all the

Crooks/political figures have nice Hair, and I strong belief in God..

I have a moral compass, I guess some people call that God...

But my hair

Keep fighting the Fight......

When I post in this Forum I'm

F uk up

14daroad · Answer

Here is a model:Cities have dabbled for years with privatization, but few have taken the idea as far as Sandy Springs. Since the day it incorporated, Dec. 1, 2005, it has handed off to private enterprise just about every service that can be evaluated through metrics and inked into a contract. To grasp how unusual this is, consider what Sandy Springs does not have. It does not have a fleet of vehicles for road repair, or a yard where the fleet is parked. It does not have long-term debt. It has no pension obligations. It does not have a city hall, for that matter, if your idea of a city hall is a building owned by the city. Sandy Springs rents. The town does have a conventional police force and fire department, in part because the insurance premiums for a private company providing those services were deemed prohibitively high. But its 911 dispatch center is operated by a private company, iXP, with headquarters in Cranbury, N.J.https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/business/a-georgia-town-takes-the-peoples-business-private.html?pagewanted=all

ClubDirt · Answer

sandy springs is a nice area of atlanta. one reason they did that is because liberal controlled atlanta/fulton county is a horribly run city/county. some of the worst schools, elected officials you'll find. the people of sandy springs were tired of having their tax dollars go to wasteful programs, corrupt officials and a money draining garbage school system.

sandy springs is a recent example. i know other areas in atlanta have talked about doing the same thing. one or two may even have also done it. whether it works in the long run, i guess we'll see.

of course, it's one thing for a small city of mostly rich people to do it for a few years. it's another for a larger territory with a more diverse population to do it.

i also don't know what kind of state and federal assistance sandy springs gets directly or indirectly.

rick3117 · Answer

good article on the subject&#xD;&#xA; &#xD;&#xA;https://reason.com/archives/2013/06/07/michael-linds-obtuse-attack-on-liberty-a

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