Sen. John McCain, who has consistently opposed President Bush's tax cuts, recently voted to extend some of them, a move conservatives say is a political flip-flop intended to further his White House ambitions.
The Arizona Republican, who is the early front-runner for his party's presidential nomination in 2008, surprised tax-cut proponents last week when he voted to continue Mr. Bush's tax cuts on capital gains and dividends and other tax breaks in a $70 billion Tax Relief Extension Reconciliation Act.
And why do you think Obama's claim is misleading or a lie?
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Sen. John McCain, who has consistently opposed President Bush's tax cuts, recently voted to extend some of them, a move conservatives say is a political flip-flop intended to further his White House ambitions.
The Arizona Republican, who is the early front-runner for his party's presidential nomination in 2008, surprised tax-cut proponents last week when he voted to continue Mr. Bush's tax cuts on capital gains and dividends and other tax breaks in a $70 billion Tax Relief Extension Reconciliation Act.
"Number one, let's focus on jobs. I want to end the tax breaks for companies that are shipping jobs overseas and provide a tax credit for every company that's creating a job right here in America.
Number two, let's help families right away by providing them a tax cut -- a middle-class tax cut for people making less than$200,000, and let's allow them to access their IRA accounts without penalty if they're experiencing a crisis."
******
Lets see firstly is199k middle class now ? Wow things have changed since I retired......
Now he will raise taxes on over 250k,and cut taxes on ones making less than 200k............what happens to the ones in the middle ? ............ 200k to 250k........ I think some people are going to get a surprise
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Durning tonights debates Obama stated"
"Number one, let's focus on jobs. I want to end the tax breaks for companies that are shipping jobs overseas and provide a tax credit for every company that's creating a job right here in America.
Number two, let's help families right away by providing them a tax cut -- a middle-class tax cut for people making less than$200,000, and let's allow them to access their IRA accounts without penalty if they're experiencing a crisis."
******
Lets see firstly is199k middle class now ? Wow things have changed since I retired......
Now he will raise taxes on over 250k,and cut taxes on ones making less than 200k............what happens to the ones in the middle ? ............ 200k to 250k........ I think some people are going to get a surprise
You people crack me up. You make like hes gonna raise taxes 100 percent on people making over 250k, when the truth is hes just going back to the tax rate of 39 percent instead of the 36 percent.
Whats really funny is i would bet any amount of money that 98 percent of the people complaining about Obama raising taxes dont even make anywhere near 250k. They are worrying about something that wont even affect them
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You people crack me up. You make like hes gonna raise taxes 100 percent on people making over 250k, when the truth is hes just going back to the tax rate of 39 percent instead of the 36 percent.
Whats really funny is i would bet any amount of money that 98 percent of the people complaining about Obama raising taxes dont even make anywhere near 250k. They are worrying about something that wont even affect them
maybe it's just me... but isn't it a bit shady when a Presidential candidate promises tax cuts to the entire middle class (the swing votes)? isn't that pretty much the same as saying, "i'll pay you to vote for me!"? i mean, the guy is already a lawyer, he almost never answers the questions that are asked of him, he has an ad spot that says meaningless things like, "Change doesn't come from Washington... Change comes TO Washington!"... i mean, how many people who are voting for Obama have ever been suckered in a game of 3-card monte, or bought a lemon from a used car salesman?
gotta say, this looks like a sucker job if i ever saw one...
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maybe it's just me... but isn't it a bit shady when a Presidential candidate promises tax cuts to the entire middle class (the swing votes)? isn't that pretty much the same as saying, "i'll pay you to vote for me!"? i mean, the guy is already a lawyer, he almost never answers the questions that are asked of him, he has an ad spot that says meaningless things like, "Change doesn't come from Washington... Change comes TO Washington!"... i mean, how many people who are voting for Obama have ever been suckered in a game of 3-card monte, or bought a lemon from a used car salesman?
gotta say, this looks like a sucker job if i ever saw one...
My big issue is he uses the word "tax cut" for 95% of Americans when half of those will really be getting a "redistribution check" as they don't pay any taxes and for some reason I as a taxpayer am supposed to pay them money?
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My big issue is he uses the word "tax cut" for 95% of Americans when half of those will really be getting a "redistribution check" as they don't pay any taxes and for some reason I as a taxpayer am supposed to pay them money?
My big issue is he uses the word "tax cut" for 95% of Americans when half of those will really be getting a "redistribution check" as they don't pay any taxes and for some reason I as a taxpayer am supposed to pay them money?
paying attention are we? shame on you! you're supposed to be sucking it down without looking deeper!
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Quote Originally Posted by Grego:
My big issue is he uses the word "tax cut" for 95% of Americans when half of those will really be getting a "redistribution check" as they don't pay any taxes and for some reason I as a taxpayer am supposed to pay them money?
paying attention are we? shame on you! you're supposed to be sucking it down without looking deeper!
can't help but notice Obama's two biggest platforms in this campaign (two only platforms?) are 1) these tax cut issues (redistribution of wealth) and 2) healthcare reform...
since when did we all agree to become a socialist country? because that is exactly what these platforms suggest! does anyone know where this is heading? i sure as hell do!
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can't help but notice Obama's two biggest platforms in this campaign (two only platforms?) are 1) these tax cut issues (redistribution of wealth) and 2) healthcare reform...
since when did we all agree to become a socialist country? because that is exactly what these platforms suggest! does anyone know where this is heading? i sure as hell do!
I don't believe that is the case. I believe he means that 95 of the middle class will get a tax cut...only those that pay because it will be in the form of a tax credit. Like McCains health care rebate won't help the 40% of the individuals that pay no taxes.
Slim and cd,
The problem here is that raising taxes on people who make 250K hurts the middle class because many people who make this much are the middle class. If you live in NYC, San Fran, etc and have a family of two kids, 250K isn't what it used to be and could put the same economic stresses on a family as someone who makes 80K in Midwest, USA. Given however that this is often one reason why individuals receive higher payment. As slim asked, What is middle class?
SeconAgain, trickle down economics didn't cause the deficit. It was misapplied by politicians that gave rhetoric of trickle down but did not use it correctly. An example would be how Soviet Russia did not adhere to the marxist communist manifesto but just became a totalitarian regime.
Also, do you understand what a deficit is? How do you relate the deficit to trickle down economics.....the deficit is when your liabilities or spending outweighs your revenue. Our revenue has been at an all time high each of the last 5 years...so has our spending and borrowing. Trickle down has nothing to do with this. You could say that trickle down may be causing a wealth gap that mirrors third world countries...but don't ever attribute trickle down to the deficit because you sound daft. But than again most people in here just say "like the last 8 years." Create an argument that makes sense.
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Greg,
I don't believe that is the case. I believe he means that 95 of the middle class will get a tax cut...only those that pay because it will be in the form of a tax credit. Like McCains health care rebate won't help the 40% of the individuals that pay no taxes.
Slim and cd,
The problem here is that raising taxes on people who make 250K hurts the middle class because many people who make this much are the middle class. If you live in NYC, San Fran, etc and have a family of two kids, 250K isn't what it used to be and could put the same economic stresses on a family as someone who makes 80K in Midwest, USA. Given however that this is often one reason why individuals receive higher payment. As slim asked, What is middle class?
SeconAgain, trickle down economics didn't cause the deficit. It was misapplied by politicians that gave rhetoric of trickle down but did not use it correctly. An example would be how Soviet Russia did not adhere to the marxist communist manifesto but just became a totalitarian regime.
Also, do you understand what a deficit is? How do you relate the deficit to trickle down economics.....the deficit is when your liabilities or spending outweighs your revenue. Our revenue has been at an all time high each of the last 5 years...so has our spending and borrowing. Trickle down has nothing to do with this. You could say that trickle down may be causing a wealth gap that mirrors third world countries...but don't ever attribute trickle down to the deficit because you sound daft. But than again most people in here just say "like the last 8 years." Create an argument that makes sense.
I apologize but I am wrong on the tax...I just read up on it. And will never agree with a policy that is welfare that is hidden under tax reform...its bullshit. You are correct. Sorry for the misimpression.
Everything else I said still holds though
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Greg,
I apologize but I am wrong on the tax...I just read up on it. And will never agree with a policy that is welfare that is hidden under tax reform...its bullshit. You are correct. Sorry for the misimpression.
Middle America.... which represents most of us, (and we should have sense enough to be united instead of allowing ourselves to be divided by the propoganda and rhetoric from both sides), is the only segment paying their share of taxes.
Big Corporations have been getting the tax breaks, finding loop holes in avoidance of multi-billions in tax debt. The welfare system feeds the poor and the lazy. The middle Class foots the bill.
Lobos.... go buy an education. Right now the govt owns shares of the biggest financial institutions. Soon they will own GM. The actions of THIS administration are as socialist as we can get... in support of their constituents; which isnt the fkn middle class. No other administration has done for big biz what this administration has done, at your and my expense to put.
So after you all pull your (about1/2 Million dollar) bone- that was gifted to you by this admin- out of your ass... and you take a look at the HUUUUGE profits enjoyed by their fkn cronies in the meantime... maybe you'll come to the realization that we need someone who will pay some heed to the health of the engine that keeps this country going....
You and Me and The Middle fkn Class.
Our Govt is most interested in protecting the people that got em elected. Big Biz Bro.
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Middle America.... which represents most of us, (and we should have sense enough to be united instead of allowing ourselves to be divided by the propoganda and rhetoric from both sides), is the only segment paying their share of taxes.
Big Corporations have been getting the tax breaks, finding loop holes in avoidance of multi-billions in tax debt. The welfare system feeds the poor and the lazy. The middle Class foots the bill.
Lobos.... go buy an education. Right now the govt owns shares of the biggest financial institutions. Soon they will own GM. The actions of THIS administration are as socialist as we can get... in support of their constituents; which isnt the fkn middle class. No other administration has done for big biz what this administration has done, at your and my expense to put.
So after you all pull your (about1/2 Million dollar) bone- that was gifted to you by this admin- out of your ass... and you take a look at the HUUUUGE profits enjoyed by their fkn cronies in the meantime... maybe you'll come to the realization that we need someone who will pay some heed to the health of the engine that keeps this country going....
You and Me and The Middle fkn Class.
Our Govt is most interested in protecting the people that got em elected. Big Biz Bro.
An unscripted moment with an Ohio plumber produced a startling confession from Barack Obama Sunday: The Democrat's "middle-class tax cut" is in fact a scheme to "spread the wealth around."
Obama dropped the mask long enough to tell the truth to Toledo plumber Joe Wurzelbacher - who had asked the Democratic nominee why he wanted to jack up his taxes just for "fulfilling the American dream."
"I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes $250,000 to $280,000 a year," Wurzelbacher had told Obama. "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?"
"It's not that I want to punish your success," Obama replied. "I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success, too . . . When you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."
At last! The truth outs!
Obama's plan isn't about sinking hooks into Wall Street CEOs and other fat cats, as he usually says. Fact is, there's not enough of them to raise the cash necessary to finance his other grand plans.
No, to do that, he'll have to go after ambitious working-class guys like Wurzelbacher - who's been a plumber for 15 years and is looking to better himself and his family while just maybe creating a few jobs.
The American Dream?
Wurzelbacher personifies it - but Barack Obama seems determined to tax it to death and be done with it, period.
That's been the case all along, of course. What's different is that the Democrat finally said so. Heretofore, Obama has sought to paint himself as a tax-cutter - claiming he'll slash taxes for 95 percent of Americans.
Nearly half of all tax filers pay no income tax at all. So how can he "cut" their taxes if they don't pay any to begin with? Answer: tax "credits."
To wit, in part: * A $1,000 "make work pay" credit. * A $4,000 college-tuition credit. * A $6,000 child-care credit. * A $1,100 bump in the earned-income tax credit.
These aren't to be income-tax deductions - which would be worthless to those who pay no income taxes.
These are to be checks from Washington - with the subsidies expected to grow to more than $1 trillion in 10 years.
That's a massive transfer of wealth. How does Obama justify it? "Fairness," he says. But that's an absurdly radical view of what's "fair."
Remember, Obama's tax hikes target folks who already bear the brunt of the burden: The top 20 percent of earners already pay 69 percent of all federal taxes - and 88 percent of income taxes.
(Contrast that with John McCain's call for real tax cuts - halving the capital-gains levy, scrapping taxes on unemployment benefits altogether - designed to prime the economic pump.)
Monday, Obama promised a tax policy that would restore "a sense of fairness and balance that will give every American a fair shot at the American dream."
But just a day before, he told Joe Wurzelbacher the truth: No American dream for you, buddy! Nor anybody else, it seems.
OBAMA = SOCIALIST = RADICAL
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An unscripted moment with an Ohio plumber produced a startling confession from Barack Obama Sunday: The Democrat's "middle-class tax cut" is in fact a scheme to "spread the wealth around."
Obama dropped the mask long enough to tell the truth to Toledo plumber Joe Wurzelbacher - who had asked the Democratic nominee why he wanted to jack up his taxes just for "fulfilling the American dream."
"I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes $250,000 to $280,000 a year," Wurzelbacher had told Obama. "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?"
"It's not that I want to punish your success," Obama replied. "I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success, too . . . When you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."
At last! The truth outs!
Obama's plan isn't about sinking hooks into Wall Street CEOs and other fat cats, as he usually says. Fact is, there's not enough of them to raise the cash necessary to finance his other grand plans.
No, to do that, he'll have to go after ambitious working-class guys like Wurzelbacher - who's been a plumber for 15 years and is looking to better himself and his family while just maybe creating a few jobs.
The American Dream?
Wurzelbacher personifies it - but Barack Obama seems determined to tax it to death and be done with it, period.
That's been the case all along, of course. What's different is that the Democrat finally said so. Heretofore, Obama has sought to paint himself as a tax-cutter - claiming he'll slash taxes for 95 percent of Americans.
Nearly half of all tax filers pay no income tax at all. So how can he "cut" their taxes if they don't pay any to begin with? Answer: tax "credits."
To wit, in part: * A $1,000 "make work pay" credit. * A $4,000 college-tuition credit. * A $6,000 child-care credit. * A $1,100 bump in the earned-income tax credit.
These aren't to be income-tax deductions - which would be worthless to those who pay no income taxes.
These are to be checks from Washington - with the subsidies expected to grow to more than $1 trillion in 10 years.
That's a massive transfer of wealth. How does Obama justify it? "Fairness," he says. But that's an absurdly radical view of what's "fair."
Remember, Obama's tax hikes target folks who already bear the brunt of the burden: The top 20 percent of earners already pay 69 percent of all federal taxes - and 88 percent of income taxes.
(Contrast that with John McCain's call for real tax cuts - halving the capital-gains levy, scrapping taxes on unemployment benefits altogether - designed to prime the economic pump.)
Monday, Obama promised a tax policy that would restore "a sense of fairness and balance that will give every American a fair shot at the American dream."
But just a day before, he told Joe Wurzelbacher the truth: No American dream for you, buddy! Nor anybody else, it seems.
Does anyone really believe we are getting any tax cuts from either candidate when they are elected? None of this shit is going to happen when there's a $10 trillion + deficit. Both of them are just saying what we want to hear to get our vote, let's be realistic!
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Does anyone really believe we are getting any tax cuts from either candidate when they are elected? None of this shit is going to happen when there's a $10 trillion + deficit. Both of them are just saying what we want to hear to get our vote, let's be realistic!
Sen. John McCain, who has consistently opposed President Bush's tax cuts, recently voted to extend some of them, a move conservatives say is a political flip-flop intended to further his White House ambitions.
The Arizona Republican, who is the early front-runner for his party's presidential nomination in 2008, surprised tax-cut proponents last week when he voted to continue Mr. Bush's tax cuts on capital gains and dividends and other tax breaks in a $70 billion Tax Relief Extension Reconciliation Act.
And why do you think Obama's claim is misleading or a lie?
Secondagain- once again you think you've proven me wrong but you havent.
I was talking about the 'Messiah' he voted to repeal the Bush tax cuts and that means that taxes for those people will go up. Im not saying he voted to increase taxes but he voted to do away with tax cuts that were allready in place. Its a clever play on words and maybe difficult for you to understand.
I wasnt hiding anywhere I just made my post then went to bed.
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Quote Originally Posted by SecondAgain:
Sen. John McCain, who has consistently opposed President Bush's tax cuts, recently voted to extend some of them, a move conservatives say is a political flip-flop intended to further his White House ambitions.
The Arizona Republican, who is the early front-runner for his party's presidential nomination in 2008, surprised tax-cut proponents last week when he voted to continue Mr. Bush's tax cuts on capital gains and dividends and other tax breaks in a $70 billion Tax Relief Extension Reconciliation Act.
And why do you think Obama's claim is misleading or a lie?
Secondagain- once again you think you've proven me wrong but you havent.
I was talking about the 'Messiah' he voted to repeal the Bush tax cuts and that means that taxes for those people will go up. Im not saying he voted to increase taxes but he voted to do away with tax cuts that were allready in place. Its a clever play on words and maybe difficult for you to understand.
I wasnt hiding anywhere I just made my post then went to bed.
this redistribution of wealth talk is pointless. Look at was is going on lately, the government is bailing out the financial banks with tax payers money. Just because some investors got too greedy we gotta bail these fuckers out?
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this redistribution of wealth talk is pointless. Look at was is going on lately, the government is bailing out the financial banks with tax payers money. Just because some investors got too greedy we gotta bail these fuckers out?
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I think some people are going to get a surprise 
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