Black Caviar

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Author: [Horse Racing] Topic: Black Caviar
Stockdale PM Stockdale
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Posted: 2/17/2011 9:12:01 PM
I dont know if there is anywhere you can watch or bet on Australian Racing but if you have the chance sit back and watch the worlds best sprinter going around in the G1 Lightning Stakes (1000m) at Flemington tomorrow. She has only had 8 starts (for 8 wins) but is already the best sprinter i have seen. You wont miss her she is an absolute monster.
outsmart smarty PM outsmart smarty
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Posted: 2/17/2011 10:12:28 PM
Big Drama will welcome her in dubai for a 6 furlong drag race(no turns) if she dares
HolyBull PM HolyBull
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Posted: 2/17/2011 10:27:41 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by outsmart smarty:

Big Drama will welcome her in dubai for a 6 furlong drag race(no turns) if she dares

No doubt.

Stockdale PM Stockdale
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Posted: 2/18/2011 1:32:59 AM
Yeah she is already proven down the straight beating top quality fields. She would pull clear of Big Drama without breaking a sweat, she has hardly been pushed out to win any of her races. Its scary to think how good she will be when they get to the bottom of her
outsmart smarty PM outsmart smarty
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Posted: 2/18/2011 8:24:52 AM

im not so sure of that my money would still be on big drama at age 5 this may be his peak year

Chicapper PM Chicapper
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Posted: 2/18/2011 10:07:58 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by Stockdale:

I dont know if there is anywhere you can watch or bet on Australian Racing but if you have the chance sit back and watch the worlds best sprinter going around in the G1 Lightning Stakes (1000m) at Flemington tomorrow. She has only had 8 starts (for 8 wins) but is already the best sprinter i have seen. You wont miss her she is an absolute monster.

The horses morning line is 1-2!

Better watch, not bet!

aussie_tweed PM aussie_tweed
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Posted: 2/18/2011 11:59:38 PM
They said they wont go overseas with it. Hard to line up against the world but why dont some of them come here for a change?
aussie_tweed PM aussie_tweed
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Posted: 2/19/2011 12:00:05 AM
1/3 now
aussie_tweed PM aussie_tweed
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Posted: 2/19/2011 12:25:16 AM
Group 1 wins by a space hard held. Manikato was the best i saw in my life. Won 4 william Reids in a row. But this thing is amazing.
Stockdale PM Stockdale
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Posted: 2/19/2011 12:56:14 AM

BEST. SPRINTER. EVER.

If you have not seen todays race yet WATCH IT, then watch it again. Take into mind that Hay List had won 12 from 15 and is rated one of the best sprinters in the world. She just races away under a strangle hold!

Big Drama?? LOL

Get on Youtube and watch this legend in the making

HolyBull PM HolyBull
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Posted: 2/19/2011 8:25:31 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stockdale:

BEST. SPRINTER. EVER.

If you have not seen todays race yet WATCH IT, then watch it again. Take into mind that Hay List had won 12 from 15 and is rated one of the best sprinters in the world. She just races away under a strangle hold!

Big Drama?? LOL

Get on Youtube and watch this legend in the making

Stockdale I did watch it and she was incredible.  No doubt she is hyped as one of the greatest in the world.

I saw her last night and she was incredible against F&Ms 3YO and up going 5F on the turf.

That's like you telling me you're the fastest runner in Australia and you've only run against blind grandmothers going down hill.

I don't doubt your claim of BEST. SPRINTER. EVER.  I would just appreciate some more evidence.  Could you please provide her past performances so I can look deeper.  I looked a bit and saw she was 8 for 8 but could get no bearing on the quality and gender of those fields.

For those of you who haven't watched her run, check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMEmiP6u8Zk

For what it's worth, they appear to be jogging in the opening splits of those turf sprints.  The horses aren't really asked and they're very coonfortable.  In America they have their ears pinned back and they're blitzing for the lead.  Would love to have seen BC be asked to do more early.

 

atlasshrugged PM atlasshrugged
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Posted: 2/19/2011 10:26:35 AM
has she ever run on dirt?  has she gone 6F or 7F on dirt against boys?

if not Big Drama would likely toss her aside especially with the form he is in right now.
Stockdale PM Stockdale
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Posted: 2/20/2011 8:18:40 AM

That was not F&Ms it was an open G1 sprint taking on Hay List. Look at how a horse like Ortensia went against the best in the world in Hong Kong getting beaten just over 2 lengths. Then look how Black Caviar demolishes her.

We dont race on dirt in Australia.

She has raced over 6 furlongs but not 7. There is no need for her to race over any further, the best sprint races are over 1000m or 1200m.

Why would dhe have to do more early? She has so much natural pace that she just runs along in front then drops into another gear at the 400m mark, then another gear at the 200m. She has so much more improvement in her too.

I would love to see the best of other countries come and take her on

Stockdale PM Stockdale
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Posted: 2/20/2011 8:22:25 AM

HolyBull that link is only for her Schillaci win early on!! That was just her first up last prep. Watch her runs in the G1 Patinack and G1 Lightning!!! That run in the Schillaci is just average compared to her next 2 starts!

If i get a link ill post it.

Stockdale PM Stockdale
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Posted: 2/20/2011 8:24:11 AM

G1 Lightning Stakes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6G2-IbpntY

Ill post the Patinack if i find it

HolyBull PM HolyBull
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Posted: 2/20/2011 9:24:35 AM

Stockdale,

There's no denying she is visual impressive and the record speaks for itself. 

I guess she 's in the conversation for best sprinter in the world, but she'd probably be 10-1 or better if she ever raced against the best American sprinters on dirt.

Unfortunately we will never know.

Keep us posted on her progress.

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Posted: 2/20/2011 11:17:05 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stockdale:

That was not F&Ms it was an open G1 sprint taking on Hay List. Look at how a horse like Ortensia went against the best in the world in Hong Kong getting beaten just over 2 lengths. Then look how Black Caviar demolishes her.

We dont race on dirt in Australia.

She has raced over 6 furlongs but not 7. There is no need for her to race over any further, the best sprint races are over 1000m or 1200m.

Why would dhe have to do more early? She has so much natural pace that she just runs along in front then drops into another gear at the 400m mark, then another gear at the 200m. She has so much more improvement in her too.

I would love to see the best of other countries come and take her on



keep us up to date on her Stockdale  stick around in the forum as well if you like.  we need more solid people and less nonsense. 

i don't doubt she is special.  in fact they have a little 5F spin in the BC at Churchill on the green so there you go a great spot for her.

when you say "best sprinter ever" our antennas pop up as just only referencing recent times we have horses like Midnight Lute and oh by the way if Ghostzapper is put in the gate for a sprint he could do whatever he wanted to feel like doing on that day.  Ghostzapper the fastest horse ever according to The Sheets
aussie_tweed PM aussie_tweed
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Posted: 2/21/2011 12:49:07 AM
Chosir, takeover target, miss andretti, scenic shot all won in england. BC is 5 lengths better than them. But as i said before trainer and owners wont travel. they have said this in an interview. So at this stage we will never know. Unless we can get them to come here???
outsmart smarty PM outsmart smarty
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Posted: 2/21/2011 1:15:53 AM

So this is gonna be like peppers pride win win win  but vs. who who who    If Im the owner of a horse like this I would take her as far as i can Because to be honest Americans will never respect an aussie horse till it is proven to do so The Breeders Cup races are the WORLD championships for a reason

aussie_tweed PM aussie_tweed
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Posted: 2/21/2011 1:30:05 AM
Look mate you guys have a game called baseball and call it the world series?? What a joke that is. Your breeders cup races are a great event but they are NOT world championships. Except in your eyes only.  How many american horses have won a Melbourne Cup? The richest handicap race over 2 miles in the world? How about Dubai's carnival. Hong Kong's international day. I love your breeders cup day set up a lot but we have a spring carnival as well that is just as good. England also has a great carnival. Not having a go at you mate ok. Just pointing out there are places around the world.
atlasshrugged PM atlasshrugged
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Posted: 2/21/2011 3:52:13 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by aussie_tweed:

Look mate you guys have a game called baseball and call it the world series?? What a joke that is. Your breeders cup races are a great event but they are NOT world championships. Except in your eyes only.  How many american horses have won a Melbourne Cup? The richest handicap race over 2 miles in the world? How about Dubai's carnival. Hong Kong's international day. I love your breeders cup day set up a lot but we have a spring carnival as well that is just as good. England also has a great carnival. Not having a go at you mate ok. Just pointing out there are places around the world.


No doubt the euros and Australian horses and horses from Japan can have a very major class edge on the American horses going LONG on the green course.  Sea The Stars, Vodka, Zarkava, and many more very, very classy runners.  I won't even talk about the living legend Goldikova though not a horse going long she has obviously humbled any American horse that tried to take a shot (Goldikova does have a track record at 9 furlongs though what a classy, incredible legend ).  everyone in this forum that girl about field size i challenge them to pick winners in the JRA (Japan Racing Association) where they have G1 races going long on the green with fields of 18, 20, or 25 horses.  Best of luck with that I know I ain't even close to good enough to find winners there but they pack 100K people into the stands every weekend at JRA

horses from Euro or Aussie or Japan are top class runners going long on the turf.  we have the Breeder's Cup and the Dubai races to validate that.

We have a simple solution to this.

Send her over for the Breeder's Cup at Churchill Downs in early November.  Enter her in the BC Turf Sprint at 5F and she is prolly 7/2 or so on the tote and maybe she wins.

Enter her in the BC Sprint on dirt at 6F with the monsters spitting out razor blades with every step and she is 15/1 on the tote and likely gets smoked at the top of the lane and caves in. 

Only one way to find out. 
HolyBull PM HolyBull
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Posted: 2/21/2011 11:40:03 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by aussie_tweed:

Look mate you guys have a game called baseball and call it the world series?? What a joke that is. Your breeders cup races are a great event but they are NOT world championships. Except in your eyes only.  How many american horses have won a Melbourne Cup? The richest handicap race over 2 miles in the world? How about Dubai's carnival. Hong Kong's international day. I love your breeders cup day set up a lot but we have a spring carnival as well that is just as good. England also has a great carnival. Not having a go at you mate ok. Just pointing out there are places around the world.

I understand your point and not to belittle it.  However, Cigar, Pleasantly Perfect, Street Cry & Silver Charm (to name a few), were all Americans who ventured to the Middle East and won the Dubai WORLD Cup.

 

HolyBull PM HolyBull
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Posted: 2/21/2011 11:42:19 AM

And to echo what Atlas said, I love the spirited debate.  Good to have you all aboard.  I could certainly use the guidance for a little late night Australia A&B action! 

HolyBull PM HolyBull
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Posted: 2/21/2011 11:43:43 AM

I would be interested to hear Andrew Beyer's take on Black Caviar.  Not sure if any of you have read his stuff, but he spent some time in Australia and tells amazing stories.

The one thing I wish we had are the on track "punters."

HolyBull PM HolyBull
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Posted: 2/21/2011 11:55:34 AM

The more I thought about the baseball comment, i have to respond to that as well.

The best players in the world come to play here.   We have players from California, Florida, Texas, South & North America, the Domincan Republic, Cuba, Korea, Japan, Italy and Australia (to name just a few).  My guess is they come because it's where the best display their talents. 

We definitely have an arrogance about us when it comes to our athletes and the quality of our events, and some of that comes from ignorance, admittedly.  However, it's difficult to deny the fact that the biggest stage in the world is the USA and it's the athletes who come here that make this statement a true one.  Not the posters at covers.com.

 

 

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