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Author: [General Discussion] Topic: Father's rights to see their children
ironlionzion722 send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
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#1
Posted: 4/7/2012 12:35:40 AM
I've been split from my baby's mother for a couple years now, but was blessed to have a great daughter with her that means the world to me.  I was shocked once we split, when I went through the legal system, and experienced the injustice first hand.  Guys really get screwed as far as visitation and rights go.  I'll go into details and give examples but I was just curious how many of my fellow covers members have gone through similar circumstances? If you have you can relate, if you haven't let me tell you its the most frustrating, unfair thing I've ever experienced.
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#2
Posted: 4/7/2012 12:40:10 AM
Life isnt fair. I had a co-worker who was getting shafted to the tune of $858.00/week. EVERY WEEK $858 came right out of his check automatically, it was a wage garnishment, as he was 30 years old and had 3 kids with his wife he was split with. The only way to regain sanity was for him to get custody. He had to do what he had to do- if that means planting some narcotics in someone's car and then calling the cops BEFORE your scheduled court hearing to discredit that person -  then thats what you have to do to get what you need to get. Not saying that anyone did that, what I just wrote, but who knows anything is possible. 
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Posted: 4/7/2012 1:14:22 AM
I have no problem paying child support, I pay 150 a week for one child and I've never been in arrears.  I'm more refering to the fact that unless the mother has a drug or alcohol problem or is suicidal they automatically get physical custody(before a bunch of people say I'm wrong, although garbage happens in certain circumstances, thats basically what my lawyer said).  It doesn't matter that my daughter spent her whole life in my house around my family and so on prior to the split, or that she was familiar or comfortable.  Our break up was mutual but she moved 90 miles  and I had to battle to get every weekend visitation, not every other.  Its crazy to go from spending every day, tucking in, waking up to a few days every week if your lucky. 
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#4
Posted: 4/7/2012 1:30:49 AM
I'm going through a divorce right now.  Ex lied about me physically abusing her.  The Judge believed her and she got a permanent restraining order against me.  Now, I can't see my kids for 6 months, while I go to Anger management classes.  The Court system is all a game.  She will probably file to move away to New York again.  Then I will barely see my kids.  darn the Judges.  I can't believe that women can get away with this garbage. 

Also, before I got married to her.  She got a move away order from the Court.  She pretended to move to New York, but in fact didn't.  I couldn't prove she was still living in California.  I didn't see my son for 6 months.

darn the justice system.  Don't get married.  Lawyer bills are friggin ridiculous too.  Plus they don't give a garbage about your case.  They barely even know your case.  All you are is a dollar sign. 

This has basically fucked my life.  To all the guys out there going through the same thing, try to stay strong.  It's difficult. 


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#5
Posted: 4/7/2012 1:35:02 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Peters821:

I'm going through a divorce right now.  Ex lied about me physically abusing her.  The Judge believed her and she got a permanent restraining order against me.  Now, I can't see my kids for 6 months, while I go to Anger management classes.  The Court system is all a game.  She will probably file to move away to New York again.  Then I will barely see my kids.  darn the Judges.  I can't believe that women can get away with this garbage. 

Also, before I got married to her.  She got a move away order from the Court.  She pretended to move to New York, but in fact didn't.  I couldn't prove she was still living in California.  I didn't see my son for 6 months.

darn the justice system.  Don't get married.  Lawyer bills are friggin ridiculous too.  Plus they don't give a garbage about your case.  They barely even know your case.  All you are is a dollar sign. 

This has basically fucked my life.  To all the guys out there going through the same thing, try to stay strong.  It's difficult. 



bol 
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Posted: 4/7/2012 1:50:33 AM

I hear ya Peters, its very frustrating because the burden of proof is nearly impossible.  My ex called me yesterday and said I wouldnt be getting my daughter this weekend even though I have visitation, and the court needs to see a pattern of this before they'll even do anything, and even once they do, it doesn't give me back Easter with my daughter this weekend and it's her Bday to.  As for the restraining order and abuse allegations, you have to be careful  and try to protect your good name, once that stuff is on your record, it's hard to shake it, no matter how unfounded it is.  I personally keep a log of all our interactions and denials of visitation and so forth, for when we do go to court. Also I would never text or say anything that could even remotely be construed that way.  As a man you have to just grin and bear it, hence our frustration.

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#7
Posted: 4/7/2012 2:05:09 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ironlionzion722:

I hear ya Peters, its very frustrating because the burden of proof is nearly impossible.  My ex called me yesterday and said I wouldnt be getting my daughter this weekend even though I have visitation, and the court needs to see a pattern of this before they'll even do anything, and even once they do, it doesn't give me back Easter with my daughter this weekend and it's her Bday to.  As for the restraining order and abuse allegations, you have to be careful  and try to protect your good name, once that stuff is on your record, it's hard to shake it, no matter how unfounded it is.  I personally keep a log of all our interactions and denials of visitation and so forth, for when we do go to court. Also I would never text or say anything that could even remotely be construed that way.  As a man you have to just grin and bear it, hence our frustration.



Making a log of denials of visitation is a must do.  My ex did the same crap.  On important days like father's day, my birthday, his birthday, other holidays, my son would always be "sick".  

At least you still get to see your daughter.  I know its not enough time with her.  But look at me, I barely get to see my son. 

Not only that, when I did see me son, my ex would make all these false accusations.  She would say he got bruises and scratches on him.  She would take pictures and document it.  She then got a doctor's note saying my son has asthma because I was smoking in front of him.  She said I wasn't feeding him.  It goes on and on.

My ex is an expert of making up garbage and the Judges will believe it hook, line and sinker.  darn them.  The Judges believes the lies and doesn't believe the truth.

It goes on and on depending on how far the mother is willing to take it.  I know, my ex takes it that far.  I just don't understand how Judges can make these rulings and not care about the effects and whether the accusations are true. 

I can go on and on.  The experience has basically destroyed me emotionally.  Someone should make a movie about the child custody game in the US.  It needs to be done. 
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#8
Posted: 4/7/2012 2:36:05 AM
this is a general question to whoever would like to answer,

I'm married with a little girl myself. I Couldn't imagine what you guys are going through and understand it must be extremely difficult.

I'm just wondering, at what point did you KNOW you and your wife HAD to get divorced, even though you know it would be hard for you and your children... any way to work it out or no way?





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#9
Posted: 4/7/2012 2:54:30 AM
I was never married and have full custody of both my children. You had to have done some fucked up garbage to not even have visitation. My wife has a child with her ex that left when he was born and even 7 years later and 40k behind in child support received joint custody after going to court. So to not have atleast visitation in this day and age says alot about your character or at the very least that your ex played one hell of a game on the judge.
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#10
Posted: 4/7/2012 2:57:03 AM

I came to a point where I realized my daughter was better off with us divorced rather then together.  I don't believe in the whole "stay together for the kids mentality.  I kept asking myself the question is it better for my daughtr to see us both unhappy and fighting all the time or having two seperate "families", and to be honest with you I have no regrets with regards to that.  My Ex made me miserable and it was this whole dark cloud over us all.  Since we broke up my daughter has actually developed stronger relationships with my siblings and parents then she ever had with them before, so if there is a silver lining to it all that is it.

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#11
Posted: 4/7/2012 3:08:18 AM
honestly totally off topic... but weren't you dating a 18-19 year old?!?!? or was that all a joke? 
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#12
Posted: 4/7/2012 3:14:22 AM

my girlfriend as we speak is 19 it is no joke my friend.  she is great with my daughter and is the 2nd best thing that ever happened to me.  I love her to death and one of the main reasons is she doesnt have that jaded, miserable, negative outlook on life my ex had that alot of women get as they get older and have kids and realize their looks don't last forever.  we are in the process of moving in together.  you may feel different but IMO he age doesnt mean I'm a bad person or bad father.  I'm only 28 so it's not that big of a deal

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#13
Posted: 4/7/2012 3:16:06 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bill702:

I was never married and have full custody of both my children. You had to have done some fucked up garbage to not even have visitation. My wife has a child with her ex that left when he was born and even 7 years later and 40k behind in child support received joint custody after going to court. So to not have atleast visitation in this day and age says alot about your character or at the very least that your ex played one hell of a game on the judge.


Getting a move away order is not difficult to do.  She just says she can't afford to live in California, so she has to move in with her mom in New York.  Once you have that, you basically can shut the other parent out of the child's lives.  When the child is really young, visitation is really difficult.  I have visitation, but I have to go to New York.  And when I go to New York, she says he is "sick".  And the Courts let her get away with this. 

I have very good character.  I have never been in trouble with the law.  I don't do drugs/drink.  I have no problems with no one else besides my ex.  I am a college grad with a stable job.

On the other hand, my ex has a criminal record for battery, theft and has problems with many, many people.  She is an unemployed high school dropout.  But the Judges don't give a garbage about that.  Once she accuses me of abuse and goes to social workers, child protective services, they will all believe her story.
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#14
Posted: 4/7/2012 3:18:20 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by Roonie:

honestly totally off topic... but weren't you dating a 18-19 year old?!?!? or was that all a joke? 

It's not off topic. That is why he probably lost the court battle. He was too busy trying to darn his employees instead of trying to raise his children. So he will just girl and moan that he didn't get his way in court and god forbid has to pay child support.

I don't know your case or anything or what actually happened, but that's how you came off in this forum anyways. It's a shitty situation to be in, but to win in court you have to be flawless or atleast make the other look like a darn up. So who knows how bad you pissed your ex off. Maybe you were out friggin everyone in sight while she stayed at home with your daughter. Or maybe you stayed at home taking care of her, but she had proof otherwise?

 

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#15
Posted: 4/7/2012 3:22:56 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by dookie78:

this is a general question to whoever would like to answer,

I'm married with a little girl myself. I Couldn't imagine what you guys are going through and understand it must be extremely difficult.

I'm just wondering, at what point did you KNOW you and your wife HAD to get divorced, even though you know it would be hard for you and your children... any way to work it out or no way?







My ex started dating other guys and didn't want a romantic relationship with me anymore.  She didn't want to get divorced, as I was the one paying the bills and she was unemployed.  But, if she didn't cheat on me,  I would have tried to work it out, as much as possible.  Personally, I would want to see my kids grow up and be a part of their lives. 
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#16
Posted: 4/7/2012 3:28:12 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by Peters821:



Getting a move away order is not difficult to do.  She just says she can't afford to live in California, so she has to move in with her mom in New York.  Once you have that, you basically can shut the other parent out of the child's lives.  When the child is really young, visitation is really difficult.  I have visitation, but I have to go to New York.  And when I go to New York, she says he is "sick".  And the Courts let her get away with this. 

I have very good character.  I have never been in trouble with the law.  I don't do drugs/drink.  I have no problems with no one else besides my ex.  I am a college grad with a stable job.

On the other hand, my ex has a criminal record for battery, theft and has problems with many, many people.  She is an unemployed high school dropout.  But the Judges don't give a garbage about that.  Once she accuses me of abuse and goes to social workers, child protective services, they will all believe her story.

I'm sorry to hear that it appears you want to be with your child. I don't see why it is so difficult to stop the move away order.You just have to prove that your daughter is better fit to stay in California with you? I'm in Nevada and we were actually thinking of moving away just to get away from her ex and it was almost an impossible feat from what the lawyers were saying. The only way we can do it is if we found a significantly better paying job and can prove to the court that it would be better for her kid to live there, but even then it would be our financial burden to make sure her son continued with the visitation.

Maybe try to take her to court in another district? I'm sure you're heartbroken, but there has to be something that can be done.

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#17
Posted: 4/7/2012 3:28:44 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by bill702:

I was never married and have full custody of both my children. You had to have done some fucked up garbage to not even have visitation. My wife has a child with her ex that left when he was born and even 7 years later and 40k behind in child support received joint custody after going to court. So to not have atleast visitation in this day and age says alot about your character or at the very least that your ex played one hell of a game on the judge.

I don't know Peters circumstances and neither do you so we really aren't in a position to judge him.  I will say there are many circumstances that could effect his situation.  One you touched on his ex could've very well played a hell of a game, which it sounds like she has.  All a women, especially a truley evil one,  has to do is file for restraining order against him or falsely accuse him of being abusive,  and like I said it drastically hurts his position, thats why like I said you have to be careful.  For example he couldve been denied the right to see his kid for months and got frustrated (its a type of frustration you can't imagine unless you've been through it) and sent her texts saying shes a girl and its not over blah blah and then she turns around and uses that against him.  Honestly my anger and frustration becomes unbearable even after a couple weekends of my daughter being kept from me so I can't imagine what it would be like to go for months without seeing mine.  Also money is a huge factor, as sad as it is, our legal system is based on good representation and she couldve had a crafty lawyer or more money in general to screw him.  Also she may just have more free time, if he works full time and she doesnt, she could simply continuously take him to court, which is hard to work out if he works like 50 hrs a week, and if he misses court dates the judge can simply rule against him.  I'm not saying any of this happened and I don't know him  but your making my point Bill for how f*ed up the whole system is sometimes.

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#18
Posted: 4/7/2012 3:33:58 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bill702:

I'm sorry to hear that it appears you want to be with your child. I don't see why it is so difficult to stop the move away order.You just have to prove that your daughter is better fit to stay in California with you? I'm in Nevada and we were actually thinking of moving away just to get away from her ex and it was almost an impossible feat from what the lawyers were saying. The only way we can do it is if we found a significantly better paying job and can prove to the court that it would be better for her kid to live there, but even then it would be our financial burden to make sure her son continued with the visitation.

Maybe try to take her to court in another district? I'm sure you're heartbroken, but there has to be something that can be done.



She is unemployed.  She tells the Court, she has no money to live in California.  So she must go to live with her mom in New York.  I talked to a bunch of attorneys.  They all said, I have no shot. 

I am emotionally destroyed by all this.  I get extremely depressed over this.  I have constant nightmares.  I probably need some counseling. 

Unfortunately, there is nothing to be done about this.  This is the system.  When my son does get older, my attorney says I can see him 6 weeks in the summer and one week during the winter break.  So, it will be better than now, with not seeing him at all. 
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#19
Posted: 4/7/2012 3:39:23 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bill702:

It's not off topic. That is why he probably lost the court battle. He was too busy trying to darn his employees instead of trying to raise his children. So he will just girl and moan that he didn't get his way in court and god forbid has to pay child support.

I don't know your case or anything or what actually happened, but that's how you came off in this forum anyways. It's a shitty situation to be in, but to win in court you have to be flawless or atleast make the other look like a darn up. So who knows how bad you pissed your ex off. Maybe you were out friggin everyone in sight while she stayed at home with your daughter. Or maybe you stayed at home taking care of her, but she had proof otherwise?

 

My relationship now has nothing to do with it, we're talking about all that happening a year and a half later and you're missing the entire point.  I didn't lose the court battle it was pretty much pay a fortune in legal costs and end up in the postion I am anyway with weekend visitations.  Most states including MA, the state I'm in have "no-fault" divorces so It didn't matter who left whom or why.   As for child support what was the first thing I said I don't mind paying it at all I have plenty of money and come from a very wealthy family thats my point there is no real due process.  Pretty much the woman gets custody right off the bat.  You didn't really say anything about how you got custody your baby's mother must've had some pretty serious issues or just didn't want the kids because I've never heard of a woman having no visitation and the man getting full custody unless as I said the woman is a dope fiend, alcoholic or has been involuntarily commited to a psych hospital

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#20
Posted: 4/7/2012 3:46:28 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by Peters821:



She is unemployed.  She tells the Court, she has no money to live in California.  So she must go to live with her mom in New York.  I talked to a bunch of attorneys.  They all said, I have no shot. 

I am emotionally destroyed by all this.  I get extremely depressed over this.  I have constant nightmares.  I probably need some counseling. 

Unfortunately, there is nothing to be done about this.  This is the system.  When my son does get older, my attorney says I can see him 6 weeks in the summer and one week during the winter break.  So, it will be better than now, with not seeing him at all. 

How old is your son? There comes a point in his life that it's his choice where he wants to live if there is no danger to him. I'm sorry you had to go through this bullshit I'll give you the benefit of the doubt considering you're in california that you got fucked over and well lets face it they let OJ go free and elected an actor as governer sooo.

What do you do for a living? Start playing the same bullshit game she is playing that let her go to NY. Have your boss cut your pay to next to nothing or under the table even better. Make it to the point she can't live off you anymore because your child support was reduced to nothing, and then come back that she can't provide for him anymore?

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#21
Posted: 4/7/2012 3:48:56 AM
bottom line though my life in the last year and a half has been awesome and I'm not trying to get full custody of my daughter, my frustration is just with the fact that being the father not the mother automatically put me at a disadvantage and all the little things the mother can to to try to tweak the father (saying there sick, claiming poverty cuz no financial support is ever enough to them, showing up late, not answering texts and calls about my daughter) are never addressed in court or resolved really.  don't get me wrong i'm sure it does bother my ex I'm dating a 19 yr old and banging college students before that but since we broke up my gf now is the only one who has met my daughter, I don't want a bunch of girls in her life.  I want her to have both real parents involved in her life, its not good for a kid to have one parent cut out of their life, unless they are unfortunate enough to have one really disfunctional bad parent and if thats the case that is just as much the other parents fault for having a kid with a person like that
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#22
Posted: 4/7/2012 3:57:03 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bill702:

How old is your son? There comes a point in his life that it's his choice where he wants to live if there is no danger to him. I'm sorry you had to go through this bullshit I'll give you the benefit of the doubt considering you're in california that you got fucked over and well lets face it they let OJ go free and elected an actor as governer sooo.

What do you do for a living? Start playing the same bullshit game she is playing that let her go to NY. Have your boss cut your pay to next to nothing or under the table even better. Make it to the point she can't live off you anymore because your child support was reduced to nothing, and then come back that she can't provide for him anymore?



My son is 3.  I tried to get a restraining order against her too.  I told the Judge how she has physically assaulted me in the past.  I didn't lie.  That was the truth.  The Judge didn't believe me and dismissed it.  My ex knows all the games and what to do in the child custody game. 

She doesn't need my child support money to live.  Her mom and her bf helps to pay her bills.

My ex will attempt to "alienate" me from my son.  She brainwashes him.  For a long time, my son would call me by my first name and not dad.  She taught him that.  She would yell at him when he called me dad instead of my first name.  I don't think my son would ever tell the Judge that he wants to live with me, even though, I know my son would rather live with me.
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#23
Posted: 4/7/2012 3:57:27 AM
i'd probably commit a serious crime and be put behind bars for many years if i was ever put in this type of situation. Sure, people get divorced all the time and I understand that. But, if my ex wife that I shared a kid with ever made up garbage so I could not see my child i would go bananas. What kind of a person would do that? I'm not a violent person by nature so I'd probably plant drugs or something incriminating to get custody like another person mentioned. If that didn't work I'd probably say darn it and do something very regrettable. 

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Posted: 4/7/2012 3:57:58 AM

[Quote: Originally Posted by Peters821]

She is unemployed.  She tells the Court, she has no money to live in California.  So she must go to live with her mom in New York.  I talked to a bunch of attorneys.  They all said, I have no shot. 

I am emotionally destroyed by all this.  I get extremely depressed over this.  I have constant nightmares.  I probably need some counseling. 

Quote]

I was there I hired a top of the line lawyer at first and he was the one who told me how one sided and fucked up the system is against dad, he still helped alot and I got a good deal over all and like I said visitation fri-mon every week and I get to claim her every year on my taxes til shes 18.  It wasnt regarding a move away order but just at first when I was getting counseled on my options if I wanted to go for full custody and so on.  As for the depression and nightmares moving on with your personal life while you fight the battle will help.  Go back to enjoying the things you used to do before you ever got married cuz we all know some of those things went by the boards when you got married.  Life has so much more potential when your not tied down to an old ball and chain.  Also start dating again or at least go get laid a bunch of times, its nice going from thinking you'll only bang one woman the rest of your life to getting a bunch

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#25
Posted: 4/7/2012 3:59:15 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ironlionzion722:

My relationship now has nothing to do with it, we're talking about all that happening a year and a half later and you're missing the entire point.  I didn't lose the court battle it was pretty much pay a fortune in legal costs and end up in the postion I am anyway with weekend visitations.  Most states including MA, the state I'm in have "no-fault" divorces so It didn't matter who left whom or why.   As for child support what was the first thing I said I don't mind paying it at all I have plenty of money and come from a very wealthy family thats my point there is no real due process.  Pretty much the woman gets custody right off the bat.  You didn't really say anything about how you got custody your baby's mother must've had some pretty serious issues or just didn't want the kids because I've never heard of a woman having no visitation and the man getting full custody unless as I said the woman is a dope fiend, alcoholic or has been involuntarily commited to a psych hospital

Full custody I meant primary physical sorry figured it would be understood \we have joint legal custody. See I paid the stupid bullshit lawyer fees maybe that's how I got it. I don't know I'm just saying the courts are not in complete favor of the mother unless it's a newborn child. Maybe it's just Nevada like that or it could be the fact that we were never married. I'm just saying it wasn't a hard fight. I didn't have to plant drugs or any of that bullshit. I showed up in court said what I had to and it was the end of it.

As far as my wifes son it was a little bit of a battle. He was in jail for the previous 3 years in California. He got out and I pretty much forced my wife to allow him to see him son on the weekends. After about a year of the garbage he started getting into the business in our house about punishment what sports he can play and so on just petty garbage. So I told him to go darn himself take her to court until then we're not letting him go to your house. Granted he's a felon and 40k behind in child support the judge still gave him joint legal and weekends.

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