Messages

Forum Index : MLB Betting : Messages Page 1 of 2  1 2  
Author: [MLB Betting] Topic: Dickey to the Jays?
IKnowMore send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
IKnowMore
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1188
Location: Canada
#1
Posted: 12/14/2012 7:07:27 PM
JP Morosi is reporting Jays and Mets on verge of completing trade.

JP Arencibia and Anthony Gose are the players rumoured to be going back to Mets.

If true the Jays are beyond loaded.

Josh Johnson
RA Dickey
Brandon Morrow
Mark Buerhle
Ricky Romero
quote
Messier-11
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
Messier-11
Participation Meter
All-Star
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 10686
Location:
#2
Posted: 12/14/2012 9:28:17 PM
for d'arnaud im hearing
quote
IKnowMore send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
IKnowMore
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1188
Location: Canada
#3
Posted: 12/16/2012 6:01:17 PM
Deal has been agreed upon now Jays have 72 hour window to work out extension.

Dickey, Thole, prospect for d'Arnaud, Syndergaard, Buck, low level prospect

Mets did real well in this deal in getting 2 very good prospects.

Jays are now loaded and have a awesome starting 5.
quote
Sparky10191 send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
Sparky10191
Participation Meter
Legend
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 67746
Location: New York
#4
Posted: 12/16/2012 6:29:54 PM
Agree. The Mets knew they weren't keeping Dickey and Dickey was willing to work with them. They were in the driver's seat the entire time.

But Dickey is what he is and it shouldn't matter what league he's in. He'll be able to handle lineups.
quote
pjm149
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
pjm149
Participation Meter
Rookie
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 516
Location: British
              Columbia
#5
Posted: 12/16/2012 6:37:41 PM
There were large portions of last season when Mark Buerhle would have been our SP1, so I love these improvements!

That is a steep price though: D'Arnaud AND Syndergaard? Mets get a pretty nice core for the next 10 years....
quote
IKnowMore send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
IKnowMore
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1188
Location: Canada
#6
Posted: 12/16/2012 10:26:50 PM
East Oakland where you at?

Let me guess, Dickey is either not that good or a fluke or the Jays got raped and thus it means they have no future.

Jays have arguably the best roster on paper now.
quote
Sparky10191 send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
Sparky10191
Participation Meter
Legend
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 67746
Location: New York
#7
Posted: 12/16/2012 10:33:33 PM
It is a lot to give up for a 38 year old pitcher. But the Jays are trying to win right now. Arencibia is certainly a serviceable catcher and Dickey can really make this a solid rotation for at least the next 2 years.
quote
komot send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
komot
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4782
Location: Ontario
#8
Posted: 12/16/2012 10:40:42 PM
i hate that we gave away our star catching prospect but that is about it. we have plenty of pitchers coming off tommy john and in the minors that can be in our starting lineup in 3-4 seasons.

i was holding my breath that we would swap them lind for ike davis some how seeing as we also included nolan.

hope this team doesn't flame out like the phillies have last few seasons with a stacked pitching lineup.
quote
IKnowMore send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
IKnowMore
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1188
Location: Canada
#9
Posted: 12/16/2012 11:06:06 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Sparky10191:

It is a lot to give up for a 38 year old pitcher. But the Jays are trying to win right now. Arencibia is certainly a serviceable catcher and Dickey can really make this a solid rotation for at least the next 2 years.

Dickeys shelflife is alot longer then the normal pitcher since he throws a NB and its way less taxing on the arm.

If the Jays get Josh Johnson signed to a extension this team is going to be scary for years.
quote
bhawksfan send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
bhawksfan
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2649
Location:
#10
Posted: 12/17/2012 3:56:25 AM

its not like Dickeys an overpowering pitcher, so age is not an issue for a knuckleballer who had a 2.7x era last season...the jays are officially loaded.

quote
jpero send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
jpero
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: United States
#11
Posted: 12/17/2012 8:20:05 AM
Mets definitely getting the better end of this deal. blue jays going for broke
Posted using a mobile device.
quote
KeyElement
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: 5Dimes |
KeyElement
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 9871
Location: Arizona
#12
Posted: 12/17/2012 10:40:27 AM
I can't say I blame the Jays for going for it right now with the A.L. East not looking so good overall. If they can counter the Rays pitching they might be right there at the end of September. As I see it right now the Yankees and Orioles should both regress and the Red Sox are downright ugly. I will be very interested in the numbers though as with all the excitement the Jays are drawing they will probably have some high standards set for them, as in, odds they will have a difficult time carrying. Chances are they could be the 2013 version of the 2012 Angels. Of course there are always those that say you have to get them "before the odds makers catch up", but do you honestly think the odds makers are off smoking grass and drinking wine somewhere and ignoring the probability changes occurring during the off season? Heck no, they are busy calculating the additional burden the publicly favored teams will have to carry. Jumping on a popular consensus bandwagon never made anyone any profit and, after all, this is a gambling website and forum.
quote
seriouspks
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
seriouspks
Participation Meter
Rookie
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 727
Location: Ontario
#13
Posted: 12/17/2012 11:54:00 AM
It's official now 2 year 25 mil extension ... Jays def have the best Rotation in the league now  
quote
jpero send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
jpero
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: United States
#14
Posted: 12/17/2012 2:45:00 PM
Def have best rotation... how?

rays pitching still great. angels pitching solid.

Posted using a mobile device.
quote
KeyElement
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: 5Dimes |
KeyElement
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 9871
Location: Arizona
#15
Posted: 12/17/2012 3:22:32 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jpero:

Def have best rotation... how?

rays pitching still great. angels pitching solid.

You think you don't have an East Coast bias? Tigers pitching not even mentioned? Anyway, consider the source, Ontario. Subjective reasoning allows for a lot of rationalizing. Let the Jays fans have their day. Yee-Haw, Bubba.
 
quote
Jaysvdubwhat
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports |
Jaysvdubwhat
Participation Meter
Hall of Fame
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 23701
Location: Ontario
#16
Posted: 12/17/2012 6:59:20 PM
unreal off season
quote
johnnyfry
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
johnnyfry
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1161
Location: Ontario
#17
Posted: 12/17/2012 8:18:35 PM
What is the point of stocking great young if you bring them up on sub-par teams?  Furthermore if you look at the history of top rated "can't miss: prospects, very few become perennial all stars.  I love this move, the Jays had the offense and it has improved, the Jays were 26th in team era last year, they now have arguably the most potent rotation in baseball.  You cannot go half way when you are trying to win a WS, this is the final touch on a much improved team that still won 73 games with some excessive and major injuries last year.

Vegas has placed the Jays as front runners at 8-1.  This is with good reason.
quote
EastOakland send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: 5Dimes |
EastOakland
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3880
Location: California
#18
Posted: 12/19/2012 2:28:02 AM
Giants have the best rotation in baseball and the best bullpen by far. Dodgers have good pitching. Detroit has really good pitching. Rays have good pitching. A's also have good pitching. Reds have good pitching and Nats have good pitching and the best pitcher in baseball. I like all of those pitching rotations over the Bluejays. I'm not being a hater, thats just the fact of the matter. You can't just sign a bunch of players to huge deals and expect to win in the first year, it will not happen.
quote
johnnyfry
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
johnnyfry
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1161
Location: Ontario
#19
Posted: 12/19/2012 5:13:23 AM
When you suggest a team cannot sign a bunch of players and expect to win you are wrong, it happens all the time to lesser degrees.  In 1997 the Marlins signed a shyteload of talent to essentially buy the Championship, so much so that a friend and I bet on them to win it all before a grapefruit game was played.  I believe Arizona did a similar thing though I may be incorrect.  In fact, in the A.L East major signing are constant, everyone tries to keep up with the Yankees as they pick and choose from the best of the litter with a very big pocketbook, this year may be the rare exception as they will be watching their expenses and Arod sits on the sidelines eating up a chunk of the payroll.

Also, these huge deals you suggest aren't all that large.  They added a ton of payroll, but in single entity dollar terms they are not handing out $20 million a year to anyone.  Signing the reigning Cy Young winner for 3 years at $30 million (with another option at 12) is a steal in today's market.  Go check out the costs the Tigers and others have for their stud pitchers.

In regards to your opinion of starting rotations; it is up for debate, though I certainly like the Tigers rotation as much if not better than the Jays.  I know from memory that for instance the first two teams you mention, Giants and Dodgers finished dead last and next to last in HR's.  Blue Jays were 7th after leading for some time before Bautista went down.  In a nutshell the The Jays score runs, they already had a potent offense.  They scored often with the long ball though they were in the upper third in SB's as well.  Here is where the Jays now have more alternative ways to score even more runs; they added a ton of speed and a potential batting champ (had he not been suspended).  Quite simply they were far and away the most active in filling the holes they needed filled, in some cases outright replacing bad parts.

With this years new edition the Jays add more threats:

Jose Reyes is a monster pick up.  37 doubles last year, 13 triples and 40 stolen bases.  He instantly provides speed and RBI potential to the players hitting behind him.  Along with his stellar defense, he is a player that adds some flare to the team. He is still only 29 after 9 years in the league.

Melky Cabrera in only 113 games due to his suspension scored 84 runs had 25 doubles and hit .346.  Let's assume he hits only .300, that's more than a .40 improvement over Davis, who didn't have a horrible year, but with 30 more games had far less production.  When a team competing in the AL East hits the long ball as the Jays do (something you usually have to do to compete in the AL East), having runners on base compounds opponents problems.  Cabrera is the perfect fit to cause such trouble to opposing teams.

Bonifacio had 30 stolen bases in only 64 games.  Providing yet another threat even if off the bench in a pinch running capacity he could be the difference in a couple of wins that might have been loses throughout the season.

These are the additions to the bats alone which already was lethal based on the overall numbers by the end of the season.  One could assume these upgrades could add 8-10 more wins throughout the year.  The major upgrade to the rotation easily adds another 10-12 more wins.  That is the way I see it if I was a betting man (which I am).

Yes they need to jell and come together as do 29 other teams.  The Jays with all of the internal competition for jobs have never been known as a team with a bad attitude, I do not know how these new players will be anything but professional and committed.

If you can counter for me which team in the American League East can compare with them on both sides of the equation I am happy to listen.  You can extend this to the entire American league in this regard if you'd like.

One final note.  These improvements weren't made to a team that finished last with no upside.  The Jays for all of their woes still finished with a respectable 73 wins. Expectations were high for them, and this finish was a disappointment.  So consider a team that was a reasonable threat and replace them with MAJOR pieces.  Not middle of the road pitchers but potential Aces (and former aces int he case of the Southpaw Buerhle), current Cy Young winners, and in effect the current batting champ from the NL and you can understand why people are convinced that this is the team to beat.  Certainly in the Al East alone.
quote
seriouspks
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
seriouspks
Participation Meter
Rookie
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 727
Location: Ontario
#20
Posted: 12/19/2012 11:50:00 AM
We got a baltimore fan hating over here ... How they have there #1 guy from last year has there 5th starter now. Baltimore is going to finish last this year in the division i can promise u that much. 

Dickey (best pitcher in baseball last year)
Johnson (when healthy like he is now one of the better in the league)
Buehrle - always will give u double digit wins and a low ERA
Morrow - Nasty stuff, same with johnson when healthy top tier guy
Romero - Bad year , If bounces back will be facing 5th starters on other teams which is a joke and should rack up a lot of wins.

Dodgers , Angels and Nationals are other strong staffs but overall from 1 to 5 Jays for sure...
quote
seriouspks
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
seriouspks
Participation Meter
Rookie
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 727
Location: Ontario
#21
Posted: 12/19/2012 11:51:23 AM
Too many haters on this chat ... Jays stay healthy they win the world series , Simple. Fav's in Las Vegas for a reason people
quote
jpero send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
jpero
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: United States
#22
Posted: 12/20/2012 12:02:41 PM
Dickey was not the best pitcher in baseball last year get his nuts out of you mouth.

Verlander, Kershaw, Price, Cueto, and Sale all pitched better than Dickey last year.

Buerlhe is on the decline but he is a veteran inning eater who is now going to be pitching in the AL East. JJ has not shown he is 100% healthy and shoulder injuries are complicated. Morrow had a great year and has great stuff but it was 1 year of success so will he repeat that?

Romero... What happened to him last year? Was he injured?

There has not been much success of NL pitchers joingin the AL East. Historically moving from the NL to AL means 0.50 rise in ERA.
quote
jpero send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
jpero
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: United States
#23
Posted: 12/20/2012 12:05:21 PM
And using the word steal for signing a 37 year old pitcher to a 2-3 year deal at north of $12/yr is not exactly correct.

There is no telling how long Dickey can pitch effectively. Its a gamble that may or may not pay off.

JBats with his wrist injury could also be worrisome. Wrists are extremely important to a hitter. Ortiz took about 2 years to overcome his wrist inury who is to say it doesnt take that same time for jbats
quote
jpero send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
jpero
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: United States
#24
Posted: 12/20/2012 12:06:25 PM
Also if you arent stealing bases at an 80% clip you shouldnt be stealing at all. If you steal at a lower than 80% clip you are being detrimental to the team.
quote
Jaysvdubwhat
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports |
Jaysvdubwhat
Participation Meter
Hall of Fame
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 23701
Location: Ontario
#25
Posted: 12/20/2012 5:23:32 PM
lol everyone always hates on the jays
quote
Forum Index : MLB Betting : Messages Page 1 of 2  1 2  
You have entered the forum as a GUEST. 
You must login/register to post or reply.