I’ve got very limited experience betting baseball as Im a
football/basketball guy so I just want to clear something up on runlines vs
moneylines. I just see almost everyone
plays moneylines when picking favorites and it doesn’t make any sense to
me. Here’s my break down, someone please
pick this apart and let me know where Im wrong.
So for moneyline players, let’s say you hit at 60% in 100
plays. For simple math purposes let’s
say they are all -110 favorites in those plays.
You play $11 to win $10. So……
For runlines, they say about 30% of games end within 1
run. But some of those are when your
team loses outright so those are loses for both moneyline and runline and don’t
apply. So let’s say 20% of the time you
lose on the runline where the moneyline would’ve hit.
60 wins, knock off 20%, = 48 wins - 52 loses
And from what I see, you get roughly 90 cents added on if
you team is @ home and 60 cents added on when your team is away. Let’s just average that to 75 cents
added. So in the above scenario, if your
moneyline is -110 you get it bumped to +165. So…..
48 wins = $792,52 loses = - $520.You’re up $272
This is a significant difference, obviously I simplified the
numbers here so maybe that’s the issue but to me it seems like runlines are the
obvious way to go.
0
To remove first post, remove entire topic.
I’ve got very limited experience betting baseball as Im a
football/basketball guy so I just want to clear something up on runlines vs
moneylines. I just see almost everyone
plays moneylines when picking favorites and it doesn’t make any sense to
me. Here’s my break down, someone please
pick this apart and let me know where Im wrong.
So for moneyline players, let’s say you hit at 60% in 100
plays. For simple math purposes let’s
say they are all -110 favorites in those plays.
You play $11 to win $10. So……
For runlines, they say about 30% of games end within 1
run. But some of those are when your
team loses outright so those are loses for both moneyline and runline and don’t
apply. So let’s say 20% of the time you
lose on the runline where the moneyline would’ve hit.
60 wins, knock off 20%, = 48 wins - 52 loses
And from what I see, you get roughly 90 cents added on if
you team is @ home and 60 cents added on when your team is away. Let’s just average that to 75 cents
added. So in the above scenario, if your
moneyline is -110 you get it bumped to +165. So…..
48 wins = $792,52 loses = - $520.You’re up $272
This is a significant difference, obviously I simplified the
numbers here so maybe that’s the issue but to me it seems like runlines are the
obvious way to go.
I agree but it's all relative. The average difference between a moneyline and runline is right about 75 cents. Even if that's off 10 cents either way then you're still doing a lot better.
0
I agree but it's all relative. The average difference between a moneyline and runline is right about 75 cents. Even if that's off 10 cents either way then you're still doing a lot better.
I agree but it's all relative. The average difference between a moneyline and runline is right about 75 cents. Even if that's off 10 cents either way then you're still doing a lot better.
It's the 30% one run games and the losses that prevent RL betting being profitable
There is no 100% cappers in the world
0
Quote Originally Posted by j-walk:
I agree but it's all relative. The average difference between a moneyline and runline is right about 75 cents. Even if that's off 10 cents either way then you're still doing a lot better.
It's the 30% one run games and the losses that prevent RL betting being profitable
It's the 30% one run games and the losses that prevent RL betting being profitable
Out of that 30% there's a chunk of games that are outright losses within 1 run correct? So a huge part of that 30% are games that the moneyline loses as well, so they don't apply. So it's not a full 30% which is where I think it's misleading to people.
0
Quote Originally Posted by KingScorpio:
It's the 30% one run games and the losses that prevent RL betting being profitable
Out of that 30% there's a chunk of games that are outright losses within 1 run correct? So a huge part of that 30% are games that the moneyline loses as well, so they don't apply. So it's not a full 30% which is where I think it's misleading to people.
Like I said, your numbers are way too generic. You need a historical database of games that contain the total, the money line and whether the favorite is the home or the road team. I used to have a run line chart like this that had 10 years worth of data but I appear to have misplaced. I'll see if I can find it.
0
Like I said, your numbers are way too generic. You need a historical database of games that contain the total, the money line and whether the favorite is the home or the road team. I used to have a run line chart like this that had 10 years worth of data but I appear to have misplaced. I'll see if I can find it.
Still looking for it. Bottom line is that there is no blanket strategy for betting RLs, espcially when you are paying 10 cents more than the ML to play them. The RL vs ML question should be evaluated by each individual game, using historical data and taking into account the total, the money line and whether the fav is the road or home team. To answer the question, "are you getting value in selling 1.5 runs?", you need to figure out the value of a run for that team vs the opponent in a given game.
Hope this helps.
0
Still looking for it. Bottom line is that there is no blanket strategy for betting RLs, espcially when you are paying 10 cents more than the ML to play them. The RL vs ML question should be evaluated by each individual game, using historical data and taking into account the total, the money line and whether the fav is the road or home team. To answer the question, "are you getting value in selling 1.5 runs?", you need to figure out the value of a run for that team vs the opponent in a given game.
Still looking for it. Bottom line is that there is no blanket strategy for betting RLs, espcially when you are paying 10 cents more than the ML to play them. The RL vs ML question should be evaluated by each individual game, using historical data and taking into account the total, the money line and whether the fav is the road or home team. To answer the question, "are you getting value in selling 1.5 runs?", you need to figure out the value of a run for that team vs the opponent in a given game.
Hope this helps.
I completely hear what you are saying and I do agree this would be a lot better with true data. But just off averages alone the difference is drastic. I've read articles, blogs and material on the subject but it really seems like people don't do the math correctly. Just like KingScorpio wrote above..."It's the 30% one run games and the losses that prevent RL betting being profitable" That 30% number is not the correct number because a huge portion of that is straight up losers for both moneyline and runline so they do not apply. It's more so between 18-20%. Thats a huge difference.
0
Quote Originally Posted by totalguy:
Still looking for it. Bottom line is that there is no blanket strategy for betting RLs, espcially when you are paying 10 cents more than the ML to play them. The RL vs ML question should be evaluated by each individual game, using historical data and taking into account the total, the money line and whether the fav is the road or home team. To answer the question, "are you getting value in selling 1.5 runs?", you need to figure out the value of a run for that team vs the opponent in a given game.
Hope this helps.
I completely hear what you are saying and I do agree this would be a lot better with true data. But just off averages alone the difference is drastic. I've read articles, blogs and material on the subject but it really seems like people don't do the math correctly. Just like KingScorpio wrote above..."It's the 30% one run games and the losses that prevent RL betting being profitable" That 30% number is not the correct number because a huge portion of that is straight up losers for both moneyline and runline so they do not apply. It's more so between 18-20%. Thats a huge difference.
I like the RL play only for certain teams like Texas, where as when they win it's almost always by a few runs.... or just against an awful pitcher, other then that I almost always just do the ML. Like everyone else says you generally can't compare RL VS ML with numbers, just too many variables involved
0
I like the RL play only for certain teams like Texas, where as when they win it's almost always by a few runs.... or just against an awful pitcher, other then that I almost always just do the ML. Like everyone else says you generally can't compare RL VS ML with numbers, just too many variables involved
Just like the money line is a derivative of the point spread in football and basketball, the run line is a derivative of the money line in baseball. To determine if there is value in a particular run line bet, you need a conversion chart comprised of tons of historical data. Each game needs to be analyzed individually as any RL bet is correct at the right price.
There is no value in blanket betting RL favorites or RL dogs. It would be like blanket betting home dogs or all overs.
0
Just like the money line is a derivative of the point spread in football and basketball, the run line is a derivative of the money line in baseball. To determine if there is value in a particular run line bet, you need a conversion chart comprised of tons of historical data. Each game needs to be analyzed individually as any RL bet is correct at the right price.
There is no value in blanket betting RL favorites or RL dogs. It would be like blanket betting home dogs or all overs.
Totalguy, first of all thanks for the responses on this. Now do you agree with my reasoning that only 18-20% of games are affected taking the runline vs the moneyline? And that the 30% is not correct?
Cause if it is that way than that's losing 1 game out of every 5. So the 4 games you win playing the runline only need a difference of 50 cents added to make the RL more profitable than the ML correct? Now on average we see 60-90 cents added taking the runline. So needing an average of 50 cents gained per game almost makes hard numbers unnecessary.
The way Im looking at it, it's all about the %'s. If 18-20% plays true that seems the way to go.
0
Totalguy, first of all thanks for the responses on this. Now do you agree with my reasoning that only 18-20% of games are affected taking the runline vs the moneyline? And that the 30% is not correct?
Cause if it is that way than that's losing 1 game out of every 5. So the 4 games you win playing the runline only need a difference of 50 cents added to make the RL more profitable than the ML correct? Now on average we see 60-90 cents added taking the runline. So needing an average of 50 cents gained per game almost makes hard numbers unnecessary.
The way Im looking at it, it's all about the %'s. If 18-20% plays true that seems the way to go.
The general data on score distribution (where the first value is home favorites and the second value is road favorites:
Win by 2 Runs or More 39.1 % 43.6 %
Win by Exactly 1 Run 18.4 % 11.6 %
Lose by Exactly 1 Run 11.0 % 16.4 %
Lose by 2 Runs or More 31.5 % 28.5 %
For home favorites the 39.1% clip equates to a +156 and the 43.6% equates to a +129.
The problem with using this global data alone for betting a given game is that it still doesn't help answer the important question of what is the value of a run in a given game. The value of the 1.5 runs that you are selling is much different in a game where the O/U is 6 vs. a game where the O/U is 11.5. The value of the 1.5 runs that you are selling is much different in a game where the favorite is -110 on the ML vs a game where the favorite is -250 on the ML. Same goes for home vs road favorites.
I'm curious to see how you will use the 18-20% of games affected by taking the RL vs the ML to choose what games to play.
0
The general data on score distribution (where the first value is home favorites and the second value is road favorites:
Win by 2 Runs or More 39.1 % 43.6 %
Win by Exactly 1 Run 18.4 % 11.6 %
Lose by Exactly 1 Run 11.0 % 16.4 %
Lose by 2 Runs or More 31.5 % 28.5 %
For home favorites the 39.1% clip equates to a +156 and the 43.6% equates to a +129.
The problem with using this global data alone for betting a given game is that it still doesn't help answer the important question of what is the value of a run in a given game. The value of the 1.5 runs that you are selling is much different in a game where the O/U is 6 vs. a game where the O/U is 11.5. The value of the 1.5 runs that you are selling is much different in a game where the favorite is -110 on the ML vs a game where the favorite is -250 on the ML. Same goes for home vs road favorites.
I'm curious to see how you will use the 18-20% of games affected by taking the RL vs the ML to choose what games to play.
I'm curious to see how you will use the 18-20% of games affected by taking the RL vs the ML to choose what games to play.
Well I guess my point is that it's always better to play the RL if you go by percentages by seasons end. Those percentages you posted are even better than I thought. I would see no reason to filter out games and situations (even using the examples you presented). At 18-20% (your numbers show even better 14-15%) you are guaranteed to do better betting runlines by seasons end. Since the average added value is between 60-90 cents, and you only need to average 40-50 cents with these percentages....it's not even close. It's so widely accepted that runlines are not the way to go, I feel like I am missing something here.
0
Quote Originally Posted by totalguy:
I'm curious to see how you will use the 18-20% of games affected by taking the RL vs the ML to choose what games to play.
Well I guess my point is that it's always better to play the RL if you go by percentages by seasons end. Those percentages you posted are even better than I thought. I would see no reason to filter out games and situations (even using the examples you presented). At 18-20% (your numbers show even better 14-15%) you are guaranteed to do better betting runlines by seasons end. Since the average added value is between 60-90 cents, and you only need to average 40-50 cents with these percentages....it's not even close. It's so widely accepted that runlines are not the way to go, I feel like I am missing something here.
Not that RLs aren't the way to go, but there is no reason to expect that blanket betting RLs is any more advantageous than blanket betting MLs. The same would hold true in the 2 sports you're more familiar with, basketball and football.
I agree that you are missing something here. I think it'll make more sense to you if you start applying this to actual bets, even if it's just on paper. Then I think the light will come on for you and you'll be able to see that blanket betting RL favorites is no more profitable than blanket betting football or basketball point spread favorites.
0
Not that RLs aren't the way to go, but there is no reason to expect that blanket betting RLs is any more advantageous than blanket betting MLs. The same would hold true in the 2 sports you're more familiar with, basketball and football.
I agree that you are missing something here. I think it'll make more sense to you if you start applying this to actual bets, even if it's just on paper. Then I think the light will come on for you and you'll be able to see that blanket betting RL favorites is no more profitable than blanket betting football or basketball point spread favorites.
As totalguy pointed out earlier, it is hard to compare values in ML and RL globally. According to Covers, favourites have won 53.13% to date this year, and have covered RL 38.23%. The breakeven points for ML and RL, globally, then are -113 and +163, respectively. That is about extra 75 cents on RL, so based on what you have observed (60-90 extra cents on RL) RL is not substantially better. In fact, it sounds just about what it should be, on average.
One example, Boston ML is at -113 (as I am seeing it right at the moment I am writing this, on Pinnacle), and their RL is at +140. In this case, you would have to argue that you are not getting what you think you deserve on Boston RL tonight. The reason Boston RL is not getting what the global % tells it should is primarily because the game OU is set high (9.5) and Boston is a road team. On the other hand, Philadelphia ML is at -137, but their RL is at +169, more than a dollar difference. Again, the reason is the opposite of the Boston game.
Books know all these historical %, most likely better than we do, and they already take these numbers into consideration when they set the odds. Thinking betting RL straight has more value than betting ML straight is misleading, and Books are not that stupid to just give out a few extra cents for nothing.
0
As totalguy pointed out earlier, it is hard to compare values in ML and RL globally. According to Covers, favourites have won 53.13% to date this year, and have covered RL 38.23%. The breakeven points for ML and RL, globally, then are -113 and +163, respectively. That is about extra 75 cents on RL, so based on what you have observed (60-90 extra cents on RL) RL is not substantially better. In fact, it sounds just about what it should be, on average.
One example, Boston ML is at -113 (as I am seeing it right at the moment I am writing this, on Pinnacle), and their RL is at +140. In this case, you would have to argue that you are not getting what you think you deserve on Boston RL tonight. The reason Boston RL is not getting what the global % tells it should is primarily because the game OU is set high (9.5) and Boston is a road team. On the other hand, Philadelphia ML is at -137, but their RL is at +169, more than a dollar difference. Again, the reason is the opposite of the Boston game.
Books know all these historical %, most likely better than we do, and they already take these numbers into consideration when they set the odds. Thinking betting RL straight has more value than betting ML straight is misleading, and Books are not that stupid to just give out a few extra cents for nothing.
If you choose to make use of any information on this website including online sports betting services from any websites that may be featured on
this website, we strongly recommend that you carefully check your local laws before doing so.It is your sole responsibility to understand your local laws and observe them strictly.Covers does not provide
any advice or guidance as to the legality of online sports betting or other online gambling activities within your jurisdiction and you are responsible for complying with laws that are applicable to you in
your relevant locality.Covers disclaims all liability associated with your use of this website and use of any information contained on it.As a condition of using this website, you agree to hold the owner
of this website harmless from any claims arising from your use of any services on any third party website that may be featured by Covers.