My friend said last night that all welfare recipients need to be drug tested.

And he said that the U.S. needs to build more jails to house these people if needed. Wow.

Drug testing all welfare recipients is, in my opinion, an absurd idea that would create more expense and problems than it would solve. Not to mention that putting something in our bodies should not be a crime.

His argument was that the drug testing would enable some to get jobs because then they would be able to pass drug tests from prospective employers. He couldn't be more wrong. Here's why.

Drug testing would cost the tax payers money. Then what happens in the event that someone fails a test? What then? Throw him jail? Take away his benefits so that his kids starve? Great ideas bud. Fantastic.

The fact is is that there simply aren't that many people that have a drug problem which is soley responsible for them not being able to find/attain employment. It's a misconception among the minds of the uneducated. Just like the drugs and crime relationship. Most crime is a result of pure emotion (i.e. anger, jealousy, fear, desperation, hatred), not drug use.

The people that want to find jobs bad enough will find them. The ones that don't won't. Drug testing the welfare recipients would not accomplish anything and it would in fact create more debt for the states and more problems.

When my buddy mentioned that we need to build more prisons if that's what it takes, I knew at that point that he doesn't have a clue. I love him like a brother, but wow. I knew then that I was fighting a losing battle. I find it very difficult to debate sometimes because I'm often debating with someone that knows very little about what they're debating. There are many discussions that I can't provide input on simply because I don't know the facts on the issue. So, hence, I keep my mouth shut. I think there are too many people that don't. I used to be that way too but I think I've made much progress.

I do know that building more prisons is not the answer. Good Lord.

I also know that it's a crime against civil rights to tell me that I can't put something in my own body and then throw me in jail for it. I also know that if you think that drug testing the welfare recipients would get a large percentage of them off welfare, you really need to do some more reading and educate yourself.

they tried this in florida.  it's your typical liberal spending big government nonsense.  it's so dumb, i thought even the rightwingers would figure out it's just an excuse for bigger government and a chance for the politicians to award a huge taxpayer funded contract to some special interest corporation to do the testing.  but, as usual, i overestimated the average rightwinger.

it's such a disaster in florida.  the governor pushed it and gave the huge contract for the testing to a corporation his wife has an interest in.  and then only a very small percentage failed, but who cares about that when you can spend taxpayer money on your favorite special interest.

and it's racist on top of that. 

in sum, it's one of the dumbest, most counterproductive, wasteful, discriminatory and worst ideas i've heard of.  in other words, it's perfect for today's big government loving republicans.

here's an article about the results in florida.

Couldn't have said it better Club.  Below is another article I found a little bit ago.  Please keep in mind I'm not basing this thread off of one article I read.  I've spent too much time researching this topic and other related topics but at least now... I'm informed.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us/no-savings-found-in-florida-welfare-drug-tests.html?_r=0

Hey Club... I think you posted the wrong link.

holy sh*t, i sure did.  all these rightwingers i argue with of questionable sexual orientation are going to get all excited seeing ClubDirtSports all muddied up like that after a race.  i've got someone working on taking it down.  in the meantime, good thing holdem got banned 


the link i meant to post is the same as yours, it just came from the tampa paper. 

i didn't know if those stats with red states taking in more government assistance just meant welfare or government assistance more broadly defined.  in any case, if as many or more white people get the kind of welfare that requires this bullshit drug testing, then i retract my racist statement and substitute it with a statement that this drug testing discriminates against the poor.

USA has the highest incarceration rate in the world.  Serious crimes deserve prison time. But not minor offenses since prisons are so expensive for taxpayers,   When governments need to reduce spending, innocent welfare recipients are among the easiest targets to blame.  Eligibility can become tougher even without drug testing.

How can you possibly type that crime has nothing to do with drug use?? 90% of property crime is a direct result of drug users funding their habits.  Who do you think pays for that garbage? The general public do in the form of higher insurance rates and retail costs. As well what are gang bangers shooting each other over?? The answer to that is cocaine sales, forgot weed, weed revenues is a drop in the bucket compared to the money generated by the white powder. Any street dealer will tell you welfare day is the busiest day of the month. That being said drug testing welfare recipients won't solve a damn thing, it'll just make desperate people even more desperate.

Seriously are all of you guys drug addicts, thats why you defend drugs so much.

Why shouldnt people who are collecting money from taxpayers {who more then likely are getting drug tested at their jobs} be able to sit home on their butts and get free money and do drugs all day.

Yeah that makes friggin sense steel cash, great logic

unreal, the posts that i read on this site sometimes.

So Steel until the country legalizes all drugs, then it is a crime and i have no problem helping anybody that needs help in society, but i dont want my tax dollars going to people so they can sit on their butts all day getting high.  Sorry if a druggie like you thinks thats wrong

dl, i would consider something racist, or discriminatory, if it had a greater impact opne on race over another without a legitimate reason.

cd, don't confuse believing in smaller government and being against wasteful programs that solve nothing with being on drugs.   but you kind of touched on my discrimination point.  if you are going to test some people "collecting money from taxpayers" as you put it, or getting government assistance, why single out just the people getting traditional (not corporate) welfare?

sounds like this is a fiscal/financial/spending issue...  thinking more about dollars and cents and spending more money on the welfare system....

dl, it is mostly a fiscal issue i.e. corporate welfare when you get down to it, some connected company is getting that big drug testing contract paid by the taxpayers, see florida), but the discrimination part comes in when it only targets welfare recipients, assuming more minorities than whites get the kind of welfare that requires testing, which i'm not sure of.

i get what you are saying dirt... and realistically I get what you are saying about the drug testing possibly having a racial bias... I think one example would be if certain substances are targeted that are higher in certain populations...

     I can tell you are very intelligent Cd.  And a class act at that.  You're wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin. 

     So you're telling me that somebody gets laid off due to cutbacks, and he can't enjoy a smoke at the end of the day because he's getting unemployment which he has paid into for 20 years.  He can drink all the whiskey he wants, but he can't enjoy Herb.  Perfect logic there. 

     You really don't know anything about this, and I really don't have the time to educate you.  Drug testing won't accomplish anything, or next to it.  It's not free to drug test.  There's a cost.  And guess who's going to pay for it?  We are.  And what are kids going to eat when no foodstamps are coming in?  And when we're paying billions of dollars nationwide for drug testing, and see results that aren't worth it, it wouldn't make a lot sense would it chief? 

     You're so brainwashed by simple thinking.  I suppose you think the drug war is working.  And just so you know, I'm not a druggie.  I believe I'm making a whole lot more sense than you.  Not only that I come with logic and facts.  You come with name calling.  As I said... you sound very intelligent though.  And classy too.

     People are going to do drugs if they want and tests will only stop some.  If you think that testing is going to motivate the unmotivated that are drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, doing illicit drugs, and watching TV all day, there's no hope for you.  You are the very defintion of clueless. 

     I don't do any drugs but I smoke a natural plant here and there.  I hardly ever drink.  My stance on legalizing drugs is what it is because it makes sense.  Because the prohibition of drugs kills more people than the drugs themselves, and we spend approximately $60 billion a year trying to fight a war we can't win.  As a result, we have drug dealers on the streets selling to our kids.  That's what prohibition accomplishes. 

     Pick up a book every now and then for God's sake.

dl, i like a good discussion. 

i thought more people would defend welfare drug testing.  i can be persuaded.  if the problem is that we shouldn't be giving these people taxpayer money if they can afford to buy marijuana or other drugs, i just need someone to explain to me why we don't drug test the multitudes of other people who get government benefits at taxpayer expense (tax deductions, college scholarships, health benefits, etc).  i'd assume the same logic applies. 

     I never said that bro. 

     Also, if you look at the numbers, crime induced by alcohol is much higher than crime as a result of drug use.  Some people have suggested to give drugs to the ones that need them and can't afford them, then treat them at the same time to kick the habit.  If drugs were legalized, the government would be making HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS and they could afford to do this.  Crime would drop, drug use would stay about the same (I wouldn't go out and buy heroine if it became legal tomorrow.  Nor would most non-heroine users), addiction rates would drop.  There would be millions of jobs created from the manufacturing, distribution, sale, treatment, and education systems.  Other countries have done this (see Zurich, Switzerland, Portugal, Sweeden, Denmark) and have experienced tremendous results. 

     There are many books on this subject.  Jeffrey Miron is an economist out of Harvard and he is a genius.  He also will tell about a thousand reasons why this makes sense.  We spend so much many fighting the drugs, throw people in jail more than any country in the world, and put people in the firing line every day.  How many cops have died leaving behind families?  How many kids have died because of OD? 

      The U.S. has 760 prisoners per 100,000 citizens. That's not just many more than in most other developed countries but seven to 10 times as many. Japan has 63 per 100,000, Germany has 90, France has 96, South Korea has 97, and Britain--with a rate among the highest--has 153. Even developing countries that are well known for their crime problems have a third of U.S. numbers. Mexico has 208 prisoners per 100,000 citizens, and Brazil has 242.

    

 

sorry pal am very far from clueless.  Problem is you are si entreched in your drug use, you think everybody is wrong because they dont sit around the house getting high all day.  If you want to use your money you earned every week to buy drugs, thats your choice, i reall dont give a Rats Assssssssssssssss.  But i dont want my tax dollars paying for people to get high, its a pretty simple concept. So dont see here because your a total burnout and expect everybody else in society to be like you, cause a bigger majority arent dope heads like you.

Also dont tell me there isnt some way to stop tax payers money going to people buying drugs. I guess everybody in the country should just quit their jobs, stay at home collecting welfare and getting high.

Please tell me why any taxpayer should pay for anybody elses illegal drug use?  Like i said what you do with your money you earn is your business, but money other people earn and give to others is their business.

And by the way pal, you are the one who is clueless. Probably due to all the drugs eating your brain cells away.

anybody getting money from another person who actually earned that money, should be tested.

Do you ever cross party lines?  doubt it

well, that would be a lot of people as most people get some sort of financial benefit from the government.  we should triple the size of government to make sure we test everyone each year they get a benefit. 

which party line am i on right now?

 

Are you really gonna mention corporate welfare to me?  Are you new on this site or has somebody been using your ID to log in?  I have probably mentioned corporate welfare and the dirtbag corporations stealing money from tax payers more then you probably have written your name.

If a person wants to do drugs, then that person should go find a job {one which doesnt drug test} get their paycheck at the end of the week and go buy all the friggin drugs that their little drug addicted bodies want, i really dont care.  Its their money and their bodies, they can do what they want. Just dont buy that crap with my money. I dont mind helping anybody that needs food, medical and a roof or their heads, but dont use my money to get high, because i could use my money then for my own things.

And heres a newflash, i would rather spend the money on drug testing and weeding out the people on drugs, then having my money get wasted away on the drugs.

so all you burnouts, if you want to do drugs, use your own damn money and you wont have a problem with me.