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Author: [College Football] Topic: Why LSU lost the way they did. Article inside
Warblade send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
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#1
Posted: 1/15/2012 12:33:31 PM
http://neworleansrising.wordpress.com/2012/01/13/is-there-smoke-is-there-another-reason-why-lsu-lost/

Now I know some of you Alabama fans will just shrug this off as an excuse, but take your goggles off for a moment, and view it from a college football fan's view. 

Do you honestly believe for a moment, that the same team that battle the Tides, tooth and nails in Tuscaloosa, a mirror image of Alabama, came out and ran the most  inept, repetitive, and uninspired offense in college football history? 

Only way a team of this caliber playing the way they did, was because they were forced too. 

But take from it however you may. Les Miles needs to go, cause he did not put the TEAM before his pride
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#2
Posted: 1/15/2012 4:54:11 PM
interesting
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#3
Posted: 1/15/2012 8:04:10 PM
WOW
very interesting
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#4
Posted: 1/15/2012 10:06:06 PM
I heard about this 4 days back
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#5
Posted: 1/15/2012 10:07:10 PM
I can't see where there isn't at least some truth to this article. I realized that Shep played very sparingly but I didn't realize that T-Bob didn't play at all. Claiborne,Brockers,and Randle leaving for the NFL isn't really surprising, but I didn't understand why Shepherd was leaving and risking going completely undrafted. I thought that he could have had a huge year next year considering how well Beckham Jr. played in '11 it could have really opened things up for Shepherd. Now that article offers some reasoning to an otherwise unreasonable decision.  
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#6
Posted: 1/16/2012 1:02:25 AM
This thread is why COVERS rocks!! Great article with some good inside dirt I agree on how much could really be true but SOMETHING was definitely amisss in that game on Monday night

Wished I would have known ahead of time so I could have UNLOADED on all the alternative lines
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#7
Posted: 1/16/2012 3:19:06 AM

I had to stop reading, it was a bunch of BS...

Take an behind whipping like a man...garbage.

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#8
Posted: 1/16/2012 3:48:10 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Lucan:

I had to stop reading, it was a bunch of BS...

Take an behind whipping like a man...garbage.



Of course it is to you
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#9
Posted: 1/16/2012 4:15:34 PM

Wheels now i know you never went to college, it's the internet anybody can type anything. It just takes a dumbass like you to believe them they are called rumors...blogs....etc.

I could make a blog and put a picture of the LSU players looking sad on the bench and tell another reason. This is the 3rd different story i heard why LSU lost. Does it really bother people this bad Alabama won.

Oh by the way while we or on the suject of LSU and Alabama how you like that behind kicking LSU got, there's you (1) for the record books!!

When somebody beats an No1 in a NCG as bad as Alabama did LSU let us know.

Roll-Tide

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#10
Posted: 1/16/2012 4:51:25 PM

Why not just have a national championship game for the SEC and one for everyone else?

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#11
Posted: 1/16/2012 9:28:36 PM

Lucan-

Who really knows if it is true or not? I've heard some rumors of the WR's being unhappy but the Offensive line did not do that garbage on purpose- I'll give Alabama credit- they outplayed LSU's offensive line. No need to be a sore winner. I actually thought LSU had a record for fewest yards gained in a national championship game but apparently Ohio St. did worse when Florida crushed them 41-14. I haven't looked that up though. Anyway, congrats but something is amiss at LSU. Regardless, that offensive coordinator needs to be demoted or fired.

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#12
Posted: 1/16/2012 9:40:14 PM
Some of you Alabama fans really live in fantasy land.

Jimmy  Get in here and defend your people man.....
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#13
Posted: 1/16/2012 11:25:33 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Lucan:

Wheels now i know you never went to college, it's the internet anybody can type anything. It just takes a dumbass like you to believe them they are called rumors...blogs....etc.

I could make a blog and put a picture of the LSU players looking sad on the bench and tell another reason. This is the 3rd different story i heard why LSU lost. Does it really bother people this bad Alabama won.

Oh by the way while we or on the suject of LSU and Alabama how you like that behind kicking LSU got, there's you (1) for the record books!!

When somebody beats an No1 in a NCG as bad as Alabama did LSU let us know.

Roll-Tide



Florida has already taken care of that twice, laying out the biggest margins of victory in National Championship game History.


52-20

41-14
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#14
Posted: 1/17/2012 3:36:25 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by Boom_Boom:

Some of you Alabama fans really live in fantasy land.

Jimmy  Get in here and defend your people man.....

Jimmy defend your people...now who lives in fantasy world...

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#15
Posted: 1/17/2012 3:38:29 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jwheels86:



Florida has already taken care of that twice, laying out the biggest margins of victory in National Championship game History.


52-20

41-14

Not good enough

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#16
Posted: 1/17/2012 3:41:12 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by blowoutgm:

Lucan-

Who really knows if it is true or not? I've heard some rumors of the WR's being unhappy but the Offensive line did not do that garbage on purpose- I'll give Alabama credit- they outplayed LSU's offensive line. No need to be a sore winner. I actually thought LSU had a record for fewest yards gained in a national championship game but apparently Ohio St. did worse when Florida crushed them 41-14. I haven't looked that up though. Anyway, congrats but something is amiss at LSU. Regardless, that offensive coordinator needs to be demoted or fired.

Sore winner  

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#17
Posted: 1/17/2012 5:03:53 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Lucan:

Not good enough


alright
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#18
Posted: 1/17/2012 5:56:37 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by Boom_Boom:

Some of you Alabama fans really live in fantasy land.

Jimmy  Get in here and defend your people man.....

I'll break this up into two posts.

Before I get into the substance of the post itself, I will say right off the bat that I agree with blowout that something is amiss with the team.  I suspect the problem is what I now refer to as the "Mike Shula problem."  That's not to say that Les Miles is Mike Shula by any stretch of the imagination, but what I mean by that is that I think there are disciplinary issues and a general lack of respect for the head coach by a faction of the team.  I also don't think this is a new problem that just cropped up before the national championship game.  I think this has been a problem that has been festering for some time now.  I can't back up anything I said with facts, it is just my gut feeling.

I also think that in the wake of this loss that the coaching staff is suffering from a slight case of "Urban Meyer syndrome," although not nearly to the degree to which Urban Meyer suffered.

After Florida got thoroughly dominated in the SEC Championship game, Meyer's world essentially came crashing down on him.  He realized that everything he had built at Florida wasn't good enough to beat Saban, and that he would basically have to re-tool his entire philosophy - a philosophy that had been extremely successful to that point - and re-tool the type of players he was recruiting.  He knew in order to do that Florida would go through some lean years.  That's what we are seeing with Muschamp right now.

Muschamp has said several times that his players are soft, and that it'll take time to recruit the right kind of athletes to run the type of smash-mouth, power football he wants to run at Florida - basically Saban ball.

I don't think LSU's "Urban Meyer syndrome" is quite that severe, because I don't think they really need to re-tool their roster.  They have a ton of talent and are not soft.  But I do think that the coaching staff is suffering from a little bit of an inferior complex right now.  After all, if they got dominated that thoroughly with all the talent they have, how will they ever get past a Saban-coached Alabama team, especially considering the ridiculous recruting classes he continues to pull despite his already stacked 3-deep roster?

Now on to the post.

I've heard 3 or 4 versions of this same story.  And while I think it may be sprinkled with some truth, overall I think it's patently absurd.  The different versions I've heard of this story all clearly come from the same source because large sections of it are word-for-word.  One version I read made the ridiculous claim that the source was one of the team's secretaries, as if a secretary is sitting in on, and is privy to, team meetings and private conversations between coaches.

It was no secret that Miles intended to start JJ in this game.  Everyone from LSU fans, to Alabama fans, to the casual fan, to the media knew JJ would start this game, and would most likely play every snap.  In fact this is one of the main arguments LSU fans made to try to convince me and others on this board to bet on LSU.  They were saying how much better it would be without Lee in there throwing an interception every third pass.

After having over a month to prepare for the biggest game in their lives, coaches don't decide 3 hours before the game who their starting QB is going to be.  That in and of itself is worthy of a 5 laughing rollie heads!!!

Are you really trying to convince me that the QB that has taken all the reps in practice for over 30 days prior to the bigggest game in their lives wasn't going to start???  That LSU coaches were actually considering pulling the plug on him 3 hours before kickoff???

***  Post One Continued  ***

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#19
Posted: 1/17/2012 5:57:38 AM

*** Post One Continued ***

Could you imagine the fallout from the media and LSU nation had Miles pulled such a foolish stunt and proceeded to get blown out by 5 or 6 TDs because Lee threw 4 picks???  Can you imagine the questions from the media???  Coach Miles, why did pull the plug on your starting QB 3 hours before kickoff???  After getting beat by 5 touchdowns, in retrospect do you think that was really a wise decision Coach Miles???  Anyone who believes any of this really needs to buy this beautiful bridge I have for sale.

Also, anyone who has a functioning brain knows that JJ gave LSU the best chance to win that game.  I think Lee has something like 0 TDs and 7 INTs versus Alabama is his career.  I dare say that there was not a single coach (and probably not a single player either) on LSU's team who believed for one second that Lee gave them the best chance to win that game.

Now you can argue (and many have) that once LSU fell behind by 12 or 15 points in the second half that, at that point, Lee might have given them a better chance to pass their back into the game, but I personally think it would have made zero difference.  In fact I'm in the camp that thinks the score would have probably been worse if Lee would have come into the game in the 3rd quarter.

LSU's passing game with Lee under center versus Alabama's defense is a complete mismatched - plain and simple.  That was quite evident from the first game.  Miles had to get Lee out of that game to preserve any chance to win.  As I said many times, JJ was the reason they won the first game.  They had no chance without him.

As for running the same 5 plays, LSU did exactly what they did the first game.  The problem was Alabama had over a month to get ready for their perimenter running attack, and were ready for it just like I said repeatedly they would be.

LSU hasn't run a sophisticated offense all season.  They have been, and are, a power running team.  The problem for LSU is that stopping a power running attack plays right into the strength of Alabama's defense.  I've said that 100 times on Covers.  I said it before they played Penn State twice, I said it before they play Michigan State, and I said it before both LSU games.  I'm amazed to see that some people seem to believe that once Alabama took the power and perimeter run-game away from LSU, that they would all of a sudden break out into a run and shoot offense, and start slinging the ball all over the field.

Teams are pretty much tied into running the plays they practiced leading up to the game.  LSU came into the game planning to do exactly what they had done all season, and what they did in the first game.  They really didn't have any choice because that's all they really do well.  They can't metamorphasize into something they are not offensively in the middle of the game - particularly when it's something they haven't practiced.

Do I believe that the receivers are somewhat disgrutled???  Yes, I absolutely do.  Both are highly touted 5* prospects coming out of high school, and I don't think either touch the ball nearly enough in this offense, but I don't believe for a second that their dismay about not touching the ball more manifested itself just hours before the kickoff as described in this fairytale.  Players are way too hyped and way too focused on the task at hand before kickoff to be telling a coach what he should have done 30 days ago.

Overall this piece of fiction is a vain and desperate attempt to justify what happened in the national championship game.  Nothing more.


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#20
Posted: 1/17/2012 7:05:13 AM
Meyer realized way too late that his OC and himself running the offense was an utter failure against teams with anywhere near equal talent. Watching UF's offense from 08 to 09 changing was abysmal and downright embarrassing. The entire offense ran through the backfield, there was nothing to set up any other play, it was just simply GT's offense from shotgun. It was obvious all year even though the Gators were unbeaten that it would get them beat at some point, the defense had NFL Stars all over it that won every game. Meyer recruited horrendously his last two years by the way the players were actually evaluated, if at all. Muschamp is the right guy and perfect for what UF wants to do and the talent pool to choose from in state. Especially now with an OC coming in like Pease to run the offense with all these athletes and elite defenses behind it yearly.
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#21
Posted: 1/17/2012 7:12:48 AM

Post #2.

There is really nothing that happened in the national championship game that should have come as a surprised to anyone.  Base on what happened in the first game, all of it was very predictable.  In fact I think it was one of the most predictable results of the entire bowl season, which is why I bet the game so large.

First of all, Alabama not only had the best defense in the country this season (and really by a pretty wide margin), they also might have had the best defense in the history of the modern era.

I said before the game that because both defenses still held pretty significant advantages over the offenses, this game would play out very much like the first one, except I expected Alabama to make better use of their scoring opportunities this time around.

In the first game, even though LSU's offense had some successs attacking the perimeter of Alabama's defense, they still were only able to muster 3 points, and those 3 points came about as a result of a broken coverage in the secondary.

I said I thought Alabama's offense would only score 1 TD, maybe 2.  I said the only way LSU would be able to score a touchdown in this game would be by way of a big offensive play, or a non-offensive TD.  I also said in some threads that I thought Alabama's defense even had a slight chance of pitching a shutout.

In short, this game played out pretty much exactly like I thought it would.  There was absolutely nothing that occurred that surprised me one bit.  I said over and over again that Saban would take the perimeter running game away from JJ, and if that happened, what would LSU's offense have to fall back on???  The answer was exactly what I thought it would be . . . nothing.

That's why I said repeatedly in order for LSU to stay in the game, JJ would have to make some plays in the passing game.  I also said that if Alabama was able to get out to more than a touchdown lead, LSU would have almost no chance of winning the game.  Due largely to Alabama's relentless pass rush, JJ wasn't able to make enough plays in the passing game, and consequently they weren't able to stay in the game, just as I said they wouldn't.

Alabama won in the battle in the trenches in the first game on both sides of the ball, albeit not by a wide margin.  Teams that win the battle in the trenches almost always win the game.  That didn't happen the first time.  I said in my write-up before the first game that the only way Alabama could lose the game was to beat themselves, and that's exactly what they did.

That's not meant to take anything away from what LSU accomplished in that game, because clearly they did what they needed to do to escape Tuscaloosa with a win.  But the same thing that applied to the first game applied to the second.  The only way Alabama was going to lose the national championship game was for them to beat themselves, and there was no way that Saban or the players were going to let that happen a second time . . . no way.

I say all this not to say how great I am, or how great Alabama is.  I say this to make the point of how predictable the outcome of this game really was beforehand.

The posted article attempts to characterize the result of this game as some sort of shocking, unforeseen result that no one could have possibly predicted beforehand, and then attempts to rationalize this completely unforeseen event.  In actuality nothing could be farther from the truth.  But for Alabama repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot in the first game, the result of that game would have look very similar to the one we saw in the Super Dome the other night.  I understand that LSU fans don't want to believe or admit that, but that's the truth, and anyone who watched the first game objectivity could see that.

Based on the arguments I advanced in these two posts, accept as otherwise noted, I don't give the posted article much credence at all.

 

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#22
Posted: 1/17/2012 7:33:15 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by jwheels86:

Meyer realized way too late that his OC and himself running the offense was an utter failure against teams with anywhere near equal talent. Watching UF's offense from 08 to 09 changing was abysmal and downright embarrassing. The entire offense ran through the backfield, there was nothing to set up any other play, it was just simply GT's offense from shotgun. It was obvious all year even though the Gators were unbeaten that it would get them beat at some point, the defense had NFL Stars all over it that won every game. Meyer recruited horrendously his last two years by the way the players were actually evaluated, if at all. Muschamp is the right guy and perfect for what UF wants to do and the talent pool to choose from in state. Especially now with an OC coming in like Pease to run the offense with all these athletes and elite defenses behind it yearly.

I agree.  I think Muschamp was a great hire, and given time to get his personel in place (especially his OC), he will be extremely successful at Florida.  Unless Georgia hires a competent coach soon, I think we'll see the Alabama/Florida rivalry again be the highest profile rivalry in the country.

The only reason that Meyer's offense scheme didn't come crashing down sooner was that Tebow was able to prop it up.  But when Saban had a essentially a year to figure out Meyre's offense, he figured out how to shut it down.  Basically there were two things he did.

First was the what I mentioned above.  Saban's strategy was to not try to sack Tebowm but keep him contained in the pocket, and force him to throw from the pocket, and take his chances with his secondary.

The second thing was that Saban figured out that almost every non-Tebow play was misdirection.  In other words the play never went where it looked like it was going.  So if the play did not look like it was coming at a certain defender, Saban told them that most likely that meant it was.

The other thing this did was establdih a blurprint for other defensive coordinators in the SEC to emulate.  You can only trick SEC defensve coordinators for so long.

The exact same thig happend to Auburn's Gus Malzahn.  After having a year to digest his offense, Saban figured out how to shut it down.  The problem was the second year Auburn had Cam.  Cam notwithstanding, the schematics of Saban's defense was sound.  Again I think other defensive coordinators took note.

On the offensive side of the ball Meyer essentially recruited pure speed.  He recruited the fastest guys he could find.  There is a role for those type of guys in any offense, but they can't be your entire offense.  That's pretty much what Muschamp was stuck with this season.

 

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#23
Posted: 1/17/2012 7:42:49 AM
Well Muschamp is loading up now with the opposite, if you watch film of the guys coming in for this class it is scary. These guys look better on film in HS than most teams classes if not all I have watched film on, getting the lines patched up and loaded with depth will take the Gators very far in the next few years.  It is very likely that UF will be landing two 5 Star top 3 WR's and one 4 Star changing over from LSU to close out the class offensively. The pieces are falling in place for a #1 class and the players fit to run the Muschamp/Saban style of ball. Im excited to see how it all plays out starting next year, the defense will be salty and fun to watch.
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#24
Posted: 1/17/2012 7:46:19 AM

I will add that Muchamp has recruited an outstanding class this year.  If they finish strong they have a good shot of overtaking Alabama for the top spot.

Being that Florida is what it is, and where it is, recruiting huge classes loaded with blue-chip talent ought to come pretty easily for Muschamp.  I don't think it'll be long before they are making noise on the national scene.

 

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#25
Posted: 1/17/2012 7:58:55 AM
I agree, I think it will be the year after the upcoming season when the Gators are back threatening. I just hope we can win 9-10 game range and play a lot more disciplined, the turnovers is what cost three games and made the season look much worse than it should have been. With two talented young QB's with a lot of experience in the first year and being thrown in the fire against the two best defenses they will ever face in college, they should be pretty good by 2013. I expect them both to do fine next year and manage the offense enough with the scheme to give the defense a good look. I liked the way the plays were called in the OSU game to keep it safe but take some shots when it was there to keep the defense ahead of the clock and wear OSU down. Brian White was calling the plays but will still be the RB's coach from here in and help the offense. It will be interesting to see what both Bama and UF do on offense next year.
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