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    All Forums | Systems & Strategies

    Betting both sides etc...

    whambam1959
    ktorp18
    gratefulbets
    britnney
    Boosh07
    ...
    Participants:
    Search model icon
    Views: 973
    Posts: 10
     
    whambam1959
    whambam1959
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    Posts: 3
    Posted: Apr. 17, 2008 - 5:50 PM ET #1

    howdy!

    like many, I get an idea in my head, do a little research and then put money on it. As I am usually at the top end of a trend it works for a while before gravity takes over and the wins dry up and we get back to 50/50 land. Dont seem to lose, just dont win in the long run :-)  luckily I am a conservative punter so I tend to hover around zero benefit.

    However... I have noticed a few things on the journey...
    and they relate to the idea of betting both sides of the equation.

    1) I use a variety of books. I have noticed that it is reasonably common for there to be a variation of up to 2 pts in the spreads on offer in NBA at any given moment.Not on all games, but on most days there will be at least one game in this category.

    If you take Team a at -2 and Team B at +4 that is being offered at different books, you will lose a little each bet.
    For your 2 unit outlay you will end up .1 to .15 worse off.

    But, every now and then you will win both bets - my rough back of the envelope assessment of this is that it would be about 10% of the time, maybe slightly more.

    (I just know someone with all the NBA ATS stats for all time is going to press a button on their PC and say - "wrong" its only 2%, we shall wait and see)


    2) I have also noticed that from time to time one can get both sides of the game in the black. e.g. a week or so ago, I was able to pick up the Utah over for $2.05 and the opposite under for $2.05 on a different book and sit back knowing I had won a few % - guaranteed.
    this is my preferred method of gambling :-)
    We have seen a similar example of this with Boston over the past few weeks where they were a - spread when the lines were first out and then drifted to a + spread. So you could have had them both sides of the coin if you had taken them the night before.


    3) Patriotism
    I noticed a few weeks ago that in a European basketball game the German team had a spread of -7 on a German book I use whilst the rest of the world had the game as a -2 or -3 bet.
    I am assuming that due to local patriotism the local book had to push the price tighter on the local team.
    I have never explored this kind of patriotism angle before, but I am assuming it must be quite strong in events like the Olympics and the various World Cups we get each year.
    Has anyone explored this ?


    Anyhow, just a few ramblings, look forward to your thoughts...

    see ya
    WB

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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    howdy!

    like many, I get an idea in my head, do a little research and then put money on it. As I am usually at the top end of a trend it works for a while before gravity takes over and the wins dry up and we get back to 50/50 land. Dont seem to lose, just dont win in the long run :-)  luckily I am a conservative punter so I tend to hover around zero benefit.

    However... I have noticed a few things on the journey...
    and they relate to the idea of betting both sides of the equation.

    1) I use a variety of books. I have noticed that it is reasonably common for there to be a variation of up to 2 pts in the spreads on offer in NBA at any given moment.Not on all games, but on most days there will be at least one game in this category.

    If you take Team a at -2 and Team B at +4 that is being offered at different books, you will lose a little each bet.
    For your 2 unit outlay you will end up .1 to .15 worse off.

    But, every now and then you will win both bets - my rough back of the envelope assessment of this is that it would be about 10% of the time, maybe slightly more.

    (I just know someone with all the NBA ATS stats for all time is going to press a button on their PC and say - "wrong" its only 2%, we shall wait and see)


    2) I have also noticed that from time to time one can get both sides of the game in the black. e.g. a week or so ago, I was able to pick up the Utah over for $2.05 and the opposite under for $2.05 on a different book and sit back knowing I had won a few % - guaranteed.
    this is my preferred method of gambling :-)
    We have seen a similar example of this with Boston over the past few weeks where they were a - spread when the lines were first out and then drifted to a + spread. So you could have had them both sides of the coin if you had taken them the night before.


    3) Patriotism
    I noticed a few weeks ago that in a European basketball game the German team had a spread of -7 on a German book I use whilst the rest of the world had the game as a -2 or -3 bet.
    I am assuming that due to local patriotism the local book had to push the price tighter on the local team.
    I have never explored this kind of patriotism angle before, but I am assuming it must be quite strong in events like the Olympics and the various World Cups we get each year.
    Has anyone explored this ?


    Anyhow, just a few ramblings, look forward to your thoughts...

    see ya
    WB

     
    ktorp18
    ktorp18
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    Posts: 836
    Posted: Apr. 22, 2008 - 4:35 AM ET #2

    i dont like your first idea.  the second one is the one i'm starting to look at more.  a combination of the two would be good too.  maybe one book would have one team favored and another book would have the other team favored.  i dont know if this could actually happen, just thinking out loud.  here is something i have been looking at:

    this is my first season betting baseball, but i'm thinking there has to be a way to profit from taking the underdog in both the run line and money line.  if you can get a run line at +130 and the money line on the other team at +130, your chances of winning the +30 are pretty good.  the team favored in the money line would have to win by 1, and that would be the only scenario where you lose.  i'm gonna start keeping track of games with this betting technique.  if i can think of an extra rule to add to the plays that would make the chances for a non 1 run win by the ML favorite greater, it would work out even better.  i was thinking perhaps only playing games where the pitchers have high ERA's or teams score a lot of runs because, the more runs are scored, the higher chance of it not being a 1 run victory.  what do you think of that idea?

    ps-here are the stats for 4/21 with that method...

    cubs +150dodgers +115braves EVENastros +150rockies +155
    mets +126 7-1 +50
    reds +128 9-3 +15
    nationals +190 7-3 0
    padres +134 10-3 +50
    phillies +106 5-9 +6



    +121

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    i dont like your first idea.  the second one is the one i'm starting to look at more.  a combination of the two would be good too.  maybe one book would have one team favored and another book would have the other team favored.  i dont know if this could actually happen, just thinking out loud.  here is something i have been looking at:

    this is my first season betting baseball, but i'm thinking there has to be a way to profit from taking the underdog in both the run line and money line.  if you can get a run line at +130 and the money line on the other team at +130, your chances of winning the +30 are pretty good.  the team favored in the money line would have to win by 1, and that would be the only scenario where you lose.  i'm gonna start keeping track of games with this betting technique.  if i can think of an extra rule to add to the plays that would make the chances for a non 1 run win by the ML favorite greater, it would work out even better.  i was thinking perhaps only playing games where the pitchers have high ERA's or teams score a lot of runs because, the more runs are scored, the higher chance of it not being a 1 run victory.  what do you think of that idea?

    ps-here are the stats for 4/21 with that method...

    cubs +150dodgers +115braves EVENastros +150rockies +155
    mets +126 7-1 +50
    reds +128 9-3 +15
    nationals +190 7-3 0
    padres +134 10-3 +50
    phillies +106 5-9 +6



    +121

     
    whambam1959
    whambam1959
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    Posted: Apr. 29, 2008 - 3:48 AM ET #3

    howdy Ktorp,

    interesting idea. Have you run it past the last years stats?
    Hows it going over the past week since you posted?

    see ya
    WB

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    howdy Ktorp,

    interesting idea. Have you run it past the last years stats?
    Hows it going over the past week since you posted?

    see ya
    WB

     
    ktorp18
    ktorp18
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    Posts: 836
    Posted: May. 5, 2008 - 9:13 PM ET #4

    it was working for awhile and seemed like it would be profitable when i added some other restrictions and rules to the system.  i don't have or know where to get last year's stats to check it with, but if you provide me with that i'll tell you what i find with it.  i stopped keeping track of it for a bit because i got overwhelmed with school work, but here is what i had for it...

    +75 on april 22nd
    +126 on april 23rd
    +70 on april 24th

    so if you know where i can get last year's stats hit me up, thanks.

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    it was working for awhile and seemed like it would be profitable when i added some other restrictions and rules to the system.  i don't have or know where to get last year's stats to check it with, but if you provide me with that i'll tell you what i find with it.  i stopped keeping track of it for a bit because i got overwhelmed with school work, but here is what i had for it...

    +75 on april 22nd
    +126 on april 23rd
    +70 on april 24th

    so if you know where i can get last year's stats hit me up, thanks.

     
    gratefulbets
    gratefulbets
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    Posted: May. 11, 2008 - 12:32 PM ET #5

     I can save you some time...
    I have researched this over the past years and guess what?
    it breaks even, at best.
    Why? bnecause the books know how to set these lines so that you can't beat them at THEIR own game.
    I started betting baseball in 1987, and I have found that all these "short cuts" are dead ends.
     
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     I can save you some time...
    I have researched this over the past years and guess what?
    it breaks even, at best.
    Why? bnecause the books know how to set these lines so that you can't beat them at THEIR own game.
    I started betting baseball in 1987, and I have found that all these "short cuts" are dead ends.
     
     
    ktorp18
    ktorp18
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    Posted: May. 12, 2008 - 9:53 AM ET #6

    Quote Originally Posted by gratefulbets:

     I can save you some time...
    I have researched this over the past years and guess what?
    it breaks even, at best.
    Why? bnecause the books know how to set these lines so that you can't beat them at THEIR own game.
    I started betting baseball in 1987, and I have found that all these "short cuts" are dead ends.
     


    What kinds of restrictions or rules did you add to the system?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gratefulbets:

     I can save you some time...
    I have researched this over the past years and guess what?
    it breaks even, at best.
    Why? bnecause the books know how to set these lines so that you can't beat them at THEIR own game.
    I started betting baseball in 1987, and I have found that all these "short cuts" are dead ends.
     


    What kinds of restrictions or rules did you add to the system?
     
    britnney
    britnney
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    Posted: May. 21, 2008 - 12:07 PM ET #7

    Sounds like #2 in your system would just break even..Forget systems...Do your research and place your wager..
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    Sounds like #2 in your system would just break even..Forget systems...Do your research and place your wager..
     
    Boosh07
    Boosh07
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    Posted: May. 29, 2008 - 10:02 PM ET #8

    I was thinking about #1 of your system except in football.  With the opening lines coming out a week before the game, there is a lot of time for some major line changes.  If you make a bet on the original line, and then there is a line change in the right direction, you could bet on the other side and hit both of them.  I'm trying to figure out how large of a change is needed before it becomes profitable, although I'm having trouble finding historic lines including the changes.  My guess is a change of 5 points, which doesn't happen often, especially in the NFL.  It probably happens more in college and even more in college bowl season where lines come out far in advance of the game.
     
    If anybody could give me a site to find historic line changes, it would be very appreciated.
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    I was thinking about #1 of your system except in football.  With the opening lines coming out a week before the game, there is a lot of time for some major line changes.  If you make a bet on the original line, and then there is a line change in the right direction, you could bet on the other side and hit both of them.  I'm trying to figure out how large of a change is needed before it becomes profitable, although I'm having trouble finding historic lines including the changes.  My guess is a change of 5 points, which doesn't happen often, especially in the NFL.  It probably happens more in college and even more in college bowl season where lines come out far in advance of the game.
     
    If anybody could give me a site to find historic line changes, it would be very appreciated.
     
    GAMBLE_4heisman
    GAMBLE_4heisman
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    Posted: May. 29, 2008 - 10:39 PM ET #9

    a 5 point nfl line move.... wow, good luck EVER finding that... middling by guessing for movement is really tough guys... if you really want to play the middle game low juice is the key, use this along with half point, rogue lines, and low juice in football.  But heed warning the rogue lines are often at questionable books....  good luck
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    a 5 point nfl line move.... wow, good luck EVER finding that... middling by guessing for movement is really tough guys... if you really want to play the middle game low juice is the key, use this along with half point, rogue lines, and low juice in football.  But heed warning the rogue lines are often at questionable books....  good luck
     
     
    Boosh07
    Boosh07
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    Posted: May. 30, 2008 - 12:23 AM ET #10

    I don't think you could ever guess a huge move like that is going to happen, you can only happen to stumble upon these types of moves by accident.  The most common way it could happen is an injury or suspension (FSU vs. UCLA bowl game).
     
    The 5 point move is just a guess on my part.  It could easily be less or it could be even higher, which would make it nearly impossible to find.  You would have to search for the best lines and lowest juice to make this as profitable as possible.
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    I don't think you could ever guess a huge move like that is going to happen, you can only happen to stumble upon these types of moves by accident.  The most common way it could happen is an injury or suspension (FSU vs. UCLA bowl game).
     
    The 5 point move is just a guess on my part.  It could easily be less or it could be even higher, which would make it nearly impossible to find.  You would have to search for the best lines and lowest juice to make this as profitable as possible.
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