Perhaps this is true.
The one problem I have with this scenario is that it presumes that M would have been on top of Z punching him, with knowledge of the existence of a gun (look at the clothes Z wore at the station), yet did not try and disarm him? Something seems amiss.
Perhaps this is true.
The one problem I have with this scenario is that it presumes that M would have been on top of Z punching him, with knowledge of the existence of a gun (look at the clothes Z wore at the station), yet did not try and disarm him? Something seems amiss.
If they need more information .. exhume the body .. Abe Lincoln's body was exhumed..
Too late to perform wound ballistics. The funeral home would have already spoiled anything that could be gained from that examination.
Post-funeral exhumation is useful for DNA, testing of poisons, etc. Not for wound analysis.
If they need more information .. exhume the body .. Abe Lincoln's body was exhumed..
Too late to perform wound ballistics. The funeral home would have already spoiled anything that could be gained from that examination.
Post-funeral exhumation is useful for DNA, testing of poisons, etc. Not for wound analysis.
The funeral home's responsibility is to prepare the body for burial. Obviously, that depends on the families wishes, but it would always include the cleaning up of any wounds so as to prevent blood from soaking into clothes for an open burial.
Presuming Martin was not cremated (rumor is he was not, rather it was an open casket), I imagine they stiched whats often referred to as a 'corpse cloth' to the area of the wound. Obviously, anything that is performed in that area will contaminate the evidence.
I have seen plenty of post-DNA tests and autopsies on dead bodies. Balistic tests for wounds are much more time critical.
The funeral home's responsibility is to prepare the body for burial. Obviously, that depends on the families wishes, but it would always include the cleaning up of any wounds so as to prevent blood from soaking into clothes for an open burial.
Presuming Martin was not cremated (rumor is he was not, rather it was an open casket), I imagine they stiched whats often referred to as a 'corpse cloth' to the area of the wound. Obviously, anything that is performed in that area will contaminate the evidence.
I have seen plenty of post-DNA tests and autopsies on dead bodies. Balistic tests for wounds are much more time critical.
Yep, not a psychologist but alot of these folks who have these anger "snapping" probs go out of their way to be amiable, friendly & overly helpful as a subconscious kind of compensation. Wouldn't be surprised if Z has that type of deep psychological/emotional disturbance & past a certain point, has little control over it. Stir that into the pot with an overzealous watchman & gun and sadly, you've got a disaster/tragedy waitin to happen.
Yep, not a psychologist but alot of these folks who have these anger "snapping" probs go out of their way to be amiable, friendly & overly helpful as a subconscious kind of compensation. Wouldn't be surprised if Z has that type of deep psychological/emotional disturbance & past a certain point, has little control over it. Stir that into the pot with an overzealous watchman & gun and sadly, you've got a disaster/tragedy waitin to happen.
Interesting that an attorney doesn't know the difference between wound ballistics and an autopsy.
How much criminal work do you do again?
It is interesting you're pretending the medical examiner doesn't conduct ballistic tests.
So your proof that no ballistics were done is ______?
Interesting that an attorney doesn't know the difference between wound ballistics and an autopsy.
How much criminal work do you do again?
It is interesting you're pretending the medical examiner doesn't conduct ballistic tests.
So your proof that no ballistics were done is ______?
Perhaps this is true.
The one problem I have with this scenario is that it presumes that M would have been on top of Z punching him, with knowledge of the existence of a gun (look at the clothes Z wore at the station), yet did not try and disarm him? Something seems amiss.
How do you know he didn't try to disarm him?
You know what seems amiss? Your silly assertions.
Perhaps this is true.
The one problem I have with this scenario is that it presumes that M would have been on top of Z punching him, with knowledge of the existence of a gun (look at the clothes Z wore at the station), yet did not try and disarm him? Something seems amiss.
How do you know he didn't try to disarm him?
You know what seems amiss? Your silly assertions.
they failed to perform tests.
Please tell us how you know this djbrow?
What is your source?
I've stated this several times already.
The police reports and the funeral directors statement on the condition of the body.
they failed to perform tests.
Please tell us how you know this djbrow?
What is your source?
I've stated this several times already.
The police reports and the funeral directors statement on the condition of the body.
It is interesting you're pretending the medical examiner doesn't conduct ballistic tests.
So your proof that no ballistics were done is ______?
An autopsy has absolutely nothing to do with wound ballistics.
It is interesting that as an attorney, you don't know this.
How much criminal work or cases involving bullet wounds have you done again?
It is interesting you're pretending the medical examiner doesn't conduct ballistic tests.
So your proof that no ballistics were done is ______?
An autopsy has absolutely nothing to do with wound ballistics.
It is interesting that as an attorney, you don't know this.
How much criminal work or cases involving bullet wounds have you done again?
How do you know he didn't try to disarm him?
You know what seems amiss? Your silly assertions.
According to Zimmerman's statement, to which you believe every word, TM was on top of him punching him and slamming his head into the ground. A reasonable person might fear at that time that losing consciousness would be certain death.
But by the act of punching and pushing the head into the ground, which are likely not simultaneous actions, we are talking about several seconds, including enough time to scream help numerous times.
I find it interesting that a person would be engaged in such actions, with full knowledge that the victim had a gun. I would imagine that disarminig him would be the first move.
How do you know he didn't try to disarm him?
You know what seems amiss? Your silly assertions.
According to Zimmerman's statement, to which you believe every word, TM was on top of him punching him and slamming his head into the ground. A reasonable person might fear at that time that losing consciousness would be certain death.
But by the act of punching and pushing the head into the ground, which are likely not simultaneous actions, we are talking about several seconds, including enough time to scream help numerous times.
I find it interesting that a person would be engaged in such actions, with full knowledge that the victim had a gun. I would imagine that disarminig him would be the first move.
An autopsy has absolutely nothing to do with wound ballistics.
It is interesting that as an attorney, you don't know this.
How much criminal work or cases involving bullet wounds have you done again?
Of course I never said an autopsy was "wound ballistics"
I said you have no idea which tests were conducted.
Which is a fact.
The police reports and the funeral directors statement on the condition of the body
Um, the police report really wouldn't not that since it ends with Zimmerman being taken into custody for questioning.
The funeral director has no idea whether or not any sort of examination of the wounds was done.
And of course neither do you.
An autopsy has absolutely nothing to do with wound ballistics.
It is interesting that as an attorney, you don't know this.
How much criminal work or cases involving bullet wounds have you done again?
Of course I never said an autopsy was "wound ballistics"
I said you have no idea which tests were conducted.
Which is a fact.
The police reports and the funeral directors statement on the condition of the body
Um, the police report really wouldn't not that since it ends with Zimmerman being taken into custody for questioning.
The funeral director has no idea whether or not any sort of examination of the wounds was done.
And of course neither do you.
According to Zimmerman's statement, to which you believe every word, TM was on top of him punching him and slamming his head into the ground. A reasonable person might fear at that time that losing consciousness would be certain death.
But by the act of punching and pushing the head into the ground, which are likely not simultaneous actions, we are talking about several seconds, including enough time to scream help numerous times.
I find it interesting that a person would be engaged in such actions, with full knowledge that the victim had a gun. I would imagine that disarminig him would be the first move.
I find it interesting that you believe that someone would have "full knowldege" that someone had a gun when it was concealed in the other person's waistband under a shirt and jacket.
I also find it interesting you can't bring yourself to beleive that the gun didn't become visible until the scuffle ensued, and perhaps there wasn't a struggle for the gun.
According to Zimmerman's statement, to which you believe every word, TM was on top of him punching him and slamming his head into the ground. A reasonable person might fear at that time that losing consciousness would be certain death.
But by the act of punching and pushing the head into the ground, which are likely not simultaneous actions, we are talking about several seconds, including enough time to scream help numerous times.
I find it interesting that a person would be engaged in such actions, with full knowledge that the victim had a gun. I would imagine that disarminig him would be the first move.
I find it interesting that you believe that someone would have "full knowldege" that someone had a gun when it was concealed in the other person's waistband under a shirt and jacket.
I also find it interesting you can't bring yourself to beleive that the gun didn't become visible until the scuffle ensued, and perhaps there wasn't a struggle for the gun.
And to the point on the gun:
The ABC report also recounted a new detail about Zimmerman's account of that night, concerning Zimmerman's gun: "Martin knocked him down with a punch to his nose, jumped on him, repeatedly banged his head on the ground, then tried to grab Zimmerman's gun," the report states. "In a struggle for Zimmerman's gun, the watchman shot the teenager, Zimmerman told police."
=====================
In other words Djbrowm you should be able to figure out that it is entirely possible Martin got Zimmerman on the ground without knowing he had a weapon. Especially since it was concealed.
The weapon then became visible (or Zimmerman went for it) in the struggle.
And to the point on the gun:
The ABC report also recounted a new detail about Zimmerman's account of that night, concerning Zimmerman's gun: "Martin knocked him down with a punch to his nose, jumped on him, repeatedly banged his head on the ground, then tried to grab Zimmerman's gun," the report states. "In a struggle for Zimmerman's gun, the watchman shot the teenager, Zimmerman told police."
=====================
In other words Djbrowm you should be able to figure out that it is entirely possible Martin got Zimmerman on the ground without knowing he had a weapon. Especially since it was concealed.
The weapon then became visible (or Zimmerman went for it) in the struggle.
I've stated this several times already.
The police reports and the funeral directors statement on the condition of the body.
What specifically did the funeral director say that leads you to believe no wound ballistics were conducted?
Here is what was reported in multiple media outlets;
"The story just does not make sense that he was in this type of scuffle or fight," Kurtz, a funeral director at the Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale, told the television station.
"In dressing the body we could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle," he said. "I didn't see any knuckles' bruises and what have you, and that is something we would cover up if it would have been there. I did not see any signs of any cuts on his neck or face."
I've stated this several times already.
The police reports and the funeral directors statement on the condition of the body.
What specifically did the funeral director say that leads you to believe no wound ballistics were conducted?
Here is what was reported in multiple media outlets;
"The story just does not make sense that he was in this type of scuffle or fight," Kurtz, a funeral director at the Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale, told the television station.
"In dressing the body we could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle," he said. "I didn't see any knuckles' bruises and what have you, and that is something we would cover up if it would have been there. I did not see any signs of any cuts on his neck or face."
What specifically did the funeral director say that leads you to believe no wound ballistics were conducted?
Here is what was reported in multiple media outlets;
"The story just does not make sense that he was in this type of scuffle or fight," Kurtz, a funeral director at the Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale, told the television station.
"In dressing the body we could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle," he said. "I didn't see any knuckles' bruises and what have you, and that is something we would cover up if it would have been there. I did not see any signs of any cuts on his neck or face."
From the same article:
"While Kurtz is not a forensics expert, the funeral director said he has handled the bodies of many homicide victims in his career. This case in particular affected him as he learned more about what happened to Trayvon Martin and how the case was handled.
“I think the police investigation was the most unprofessional one I've ever seen in my lifetime,” Kurtz said."
Also, in that article, the funeral director notes he cannot tell the entry and exit wounds. That proves wound ballistics did not occur, as they would have closed the wounds after testing. Essentially, wound ballistics for chest injuries involves opening the entire chest cavity to examine for fragments, because fragments occur either open entry or when the bullet encounters bone. This would be vital to determining the exact angle. For example, fragments in the upper rib area with an exit wound in the back, would likely indicate a bullet traveling through the upper chest, which might show that entry was through the abdomen. This would appear to verify Zimmerman's version of events.
A body following such tests would never be passed to the funeral home without the entry and exit wounds being stiched and closed.
What specifically did the funeral director say that leads you to believe no wound ballistics were conducted?
Here is what was reported in multiple media outlets;
"The story just does not make sense that he was in this type of scuffle or fight," Kurtz, a funeral director at the Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale, told the television station.
"In dressing the body we could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle," he said. "I didn't see any knuckles' bruises and what have you, and that is something we would cover up if it would have been there. I did not see any signs of any cuts on his neck or face."
From the same article:
"While Kurtz is not a forensics expert, the funeral director said he has handled the bodies of many homicide victims in his career. This case in particular affected him as he learned more about what happened to Trayvon Martin and how the case was handled.
“I think the police investigation was the most unprofessional one I've ever seen in my lifetime,” Kurtz said."
Also, in that article, the funeral director notes he cannot tell the entry and exit wounds. That proves wound ballistics did not occur, as they would have closed the wounds after testing. Essentially, wound ballistics for chest injuries involves opening the entire chest cavity to examine for fragments, because fragments occur either open entry or when the bullet encounters bone. This would be vital to determining the exact angle. For example, fragments in the upper rib area with an exit wound in the back, would likely indicate a bullet traveling through the upper chest, which might show that entry was through the abdomen. This would appear to verify Zimmerman's version of events.
A body following such tests would never be passed to the funeral home without the entry and exit wounds being stiched and closed.
I find it interesting that you believe that someone would have "full knowldege" that someone had a gun when it was concealed in the other person's waistband under a shirt and jacket.
I also find it interesting you can't bring yourself to beleive that the gun didn't become visible until the scuffle ensued, and perhaps there wasn't a struggle for the gun.
Its possible. The video of Zimmerman at the station shows a tucked in tshirt and an open jacket. I have no idea if he wore that jacket during the confrontation but the tucked in tshirt does raise an eyebrow.
I find it interesting that you believe that someone would have "full knowldege" that someone had a gun when it was concealed in the other person's waistband under a shirt and jacket.
I also find it interesting you can't bring yourself to beleive that the gun didn't become visible until the scuffle ensued, and perhaps there wasn't a struggle for the gun.
Its possible. The video of Zimmerman at the station shows a tucked in tshirt and an open jacket. I have no idea if he wore that jacket during the confrontation but the tucked in tshirt does raise an eyebrow.
Djbrow,
From the HLN Web site on Kurtz's comments:
Richard Kurtz of Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale said there appeared to be a gunshot wound in Martin’s upper chest area, but he received the body after the autopsy was completed so it was difficult to tell whether he had other injuries. He also could not determine the bullet’s entry or exit point.
========================
I think when the reports are released from the medical examiner's office, you're going to be proven wrong on this one.
Djbrow,
From the HLN Web site on Kurtz's comments:
Richard Kurtz of Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale said there appeared to be a gunshot wound in Martin’s upper chest area, but he received the body after the autopsy was completed so it was difficult to tell whether he had other injuries. He also could not determine the bullet’s entry or exit point.
========================
I think when the reports are released from the medical examiner's office, you're going to be proven wrong on this one.
A body following such tests would never be passed to the funeral home without the entry and exit wounds being stiched and closed.
====================
Of course.
And what happens when they are stitched and closed?
You can't tell the difference between the two.
A body following such tests would never be passed to the funeral home without the entry and exit wounds being stiched and closed.
====================
Of course.
And what happens when they are stitched and closed?
You can't tell the difference between the two.
Djbrow,
From the HLN Web site on Kurtz's comments:
Richard Kurtz of Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale said there appeared to be a gunshot wound in Martin’s upper chest area, but he received the body after the autopsy was completed so it was difficult to tell whether he had other injuries. He also could not determine the bullet’s entry or exit point.
========================
I think when the reports are released from the medical examiner's office, you're going to be proven wrong on this one.
That is my point. A medical examiner's office doesn't perform wound ballistics. A medical examiner's officer performs an autopsy.
Djbrow,
From the HLN Web site on Kurtz's comments:
Richard Kurtz of Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale said there appeared to be a gunshot wound in Martin’s upper chest area, but he received the body after the autopsy was completed so it was difficult to tell whether he had other injuries. He also could not determine the bullet’s entry or exit point.
========================
I think when the reports are released from the medical examiner's office, you're going to be proven wrong on this one.
That is my point. A medical examiner's office doesn't perform wound ballistics. A medical examiner's officer performs an autopsy.
Well....I do appreciate you bringing a different perspective.
With that being said, I don't think there was corruption, racism (although maybe some unintended indirect perceptions of black youth), or a sinister act.
I just think there was a very quick rush to judgment that prevented a full range of evidence from coming to light which has spoiled this case, sadly.
Well....I do appreciate you bringing a different perspective.
With that being said, I don't think there was corruption, racism (although maybe some unintended indirect perceptions of black youth), or a sinister act.
I just think there was a very quick rush to judgment that prevented a full range of evidence from coming to light which has spoiled this case, sadly.
That is my point. A medical examiner's office doesn't perform wound ballistics. A medical examiner's officer performs an autopsy.
Really?
A medical examiner's office doesn't do wound ballistics?
Who does?
That is my point. A medical examiner's office doesn't perform wound ballistics. A medical examiner's officer performs an autopsy.
Really?
A medical examiner's office doesn't do wound ballistics?
Who does?
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