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    All Forums | MLB Betting Forum

    Has pulling starters so much earlier reduced injuries or resulted in more wins?

    Raiders22
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    Posts: 4
     
    Raiders22
    Raiders22
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    Posts: 33575
    Posted: Jul. 11, 2026 - 3:49 PM ET #1

    The short answer is: there is strong evidence that pulling starters earlier has changed the game, but much weaker evidence that it has either reduced injuries or increased wins overall.

    Here's what the research and MLB data suggest:

    The evidence is surprisingly weak.

    Teams began aggressively limiting starter workloads in the 2010s because they believed fatigue increased injury risk.

    The logic is reasonable:

    • Velocity tends to drop with fatigue.
    • Mechanics can deteriorate.
    • Tired pitchers may place more stress on the elbow and shoulder.

    However:

    • Rates of major elbow surgeries (especially Tommy John surgery) have not declined.
    • In fact, Tommy John surgeries have generally increased over the past two decades.
    • Even as starters throw fewer innings than ever, pitching injuries remain historically high.

    Researchers think several factors may matter more than innings:

    • Maximum effort on nearly every pitch
    • Higher average fastball velocity
    • More breaking balls with high spin
    • Year-round throwing
    • Pitching at younger ages

    So reducing a starter from 110 pitches to 90 hasn't clearly translated into healthier pitchers.

    This is where the answer is more nuanced.

    This is the biggest reason managers remove starters.

    Across MLB:

    • Hitters perform worse the first time through.
    • Better the second.
    • Better still the third.

    A typical increase looks something like:

    Time through lineup OPS: 

    First ~ .700

    Second ~ .700

    Third ~ .770-.790

    So statistically, an average pitcher becomes less effective.

    If you have:

    • an elite bullpen
    • several fresh relievers
    • favorable matchups

    then removing the starter often improves expected run prevention.

     

     

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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    The short answer is: there is strong evidence that pulling starters earlier has changed the game, but much weaker evidence that it has either reduced injuries or increased wins overall.

    Here's what the research and MLB data suggest:

    The evidence is surprisingly weak.

    Teams began aggressively limiting starter workloads in the 2010s because they believed fatigue increased injury risk.

    The logic is reasonable:

    • Velocity tends to drop with fatigue.
    • Mechanics can deteriorate.
    • Tired pitchers may place more stress on the elbow and shoulder.

    However:

    • Rates of major elbow surgeries (especially Tommy John surgery) have not declined.
    • In fact, Tommy John surgeries have generally increased over the past two decades.
    • Even as starters throw fewer innings than ever, pitching injuries remain historically high.

    Researchers think several factors may matter more than innings:

    • Maximum effort on nearly every pitch
    • Higher average fastball velocity
    • More breaking balls with high spin
    • Year-round throwing
    • Pitching at younger ages

    So reducing a starter from 110 pitches to 90 hasn't clearly translated into healthier pitchers.

    This is where the answer is more nuanced.

    This is the biggest reason managers remove starters.

    Across MLB:

    • Hitters perform worse the first time through.
    • Better the second.
    • Better still the third.

    A typical increase looks something like:

    Time through lineup OPS: 

    First ~ .700

    Second ~ .700

    Third ~ .770-.790

    So statistically, an average pitcher becomes less effective.

    If you have:

    • an elite bullpen
    • several fresh relievers
    • favorable matchups

    then removing the starter often improves expected run prevention.

     

     

     
    Raiders22
    Raiders22
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2010
    Posts: 33575
    Posted: Jul. 11, 2026 - 3:51 PM ET #2

    Bullpens today throw around 40% or more of all MLB innings.

    That creates new problems:

    • More relievers means more opportunities for someone to have a bad outing.
    • Bullpen variance is enormous.
    • Managers often remove starters who are cruising because "the book says so."

    Fans see this constantly:

    Starter:

    • 6 innings
    • 82 pitches
    • 1 run allowed

    Bullpen:

    • gives up 4 runs in the seventh.

    Those losses are memorable because they happen frequently.

    League-wide winning percentage must always total .500, so the better question is whether this strategy gives an advantage over alternatives.

    Analytics departments generally believe:

    • Yes, in many situations, especially in the postseason or with deep bullpens.
    • But the advantage is often small—perhaps a few runs or wins over an entire season rather than a dramatic improvement.

    Interestingly, several organizations have started moving back toward longer outings for effective starters.

    Reasons include:

    • Bullpen fatigue over a 162-game season.
    • Elite starters are often still the best option.
    • Better pitcher monitoring (velocity, spin rate, biomechanics) allows managers to make more individualized decisions instead of relying on fixed pitch counts.

    The current consensus is closer to:

    Don't remove a pitcher simply because it's the third time through the lineup. Remove him when there are signs he's becoming less effective.

    That includes:

    • declining velocity
    • loss of command
    • increasing hard contact
    • elevated pitch count
    • matchup considerations

    rather than an automatic rule.

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    Bullpens today throw around 40% or more of all MLB innings.

    That creates new problems:

    • More relievers means more opportunities for someone to have a bad outing.
    • Bullpen variance is enormous.
    • Managers often remove starters who are cruising because "the book says so."

    Fans see this constantly:

    Starter:

    • 6 innings
    • 82 pitches
    • 1 run allowed

    Bullpen:

    • gives up 4 runs in the seventh.

    Those losses are memorable because they happen frequently.

    League-wide winning percentage must always total .500, so the better question is whether this strategy gives an advantage over alternatives.

    Analytics departments generally believe:

    • Yes, in many situations, especially in the postseason or with deep bullpens.
    • But the advantage is often small—perhaps a few runs or wins over an entire season rather than a dramatic improvement.

    Interestingly, several organizations have started moving back toward longer outings for effective starters.

    Reasons include:

    • Bullpen fatigue over a 162-game season.
    • Elite starters are often still the best option.
    • Better pitcher monitoring (velocity, spin rate, biomechanics) allows managers to make more individualized decisions instead of relying on fixed pitch counts.

    The current consensus is closer to:

    Don't remove a pitcher simply because it's the third time through the lineup. Remove him when there are signs he's becoming less effective.

    That includes:

    • declining velocity
    • loss of command
    • increasing hard contact
    • elevated pitch count
    • matchup considerations

    rather than an automatic rule.

     
    Raiders22
    Raiders22
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2010
    Posts: 33575
    Posted: Jul. 11, 2026 - 3:51 PM ET #3

    • Reduced injuries? There is no convincing evidence that routinely pulling starters earlier has significantly reduced major arm injuries.
    • More wins? There is moderate evidence that strategic earlier removals can improve win expectancy in specific situations, largely because of the third-time-through-the-order effect and bullpen matchups. However, there is no evidence of a dramatic increase in overall wins, and many observers believe some teams have become overly rigid, taking out effective starters too soon and exposing themselves to volatile bullpens.

    Many front offices now favor a more flexible approach that combines analytics with real-time observation rather than following a strict pitch-count or inning limit.

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    • Reduced injuries? There is no convincing evidence that routinely pulling starters earlier has significantly reduced major arm injuries.
    • More wins? There is moderate evidence that strategic earlier removals can improve win expectancy in specific situations, largely because of the third-time-through-the-order effect and bullpen matchups. However, there is no evidence of a dramatic increase in overall wins, and many observers believe some teams have become overly rigid, taking out effective starters too soon and exposing themselves to volatile bullpens.

    Many front offices now favor a more flexible approach that combines analytics with real-time observation rather than following a strict pitch-count or inning limit.

     
     
    Raiders22
    Raiders22
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2010
    Posts: 33575
    Posted: Jul. 11, 2026 - 3:56 PM ET #4

    It is ridiculous to watch this as a fan.  It is absurd to watch it as a bettor.

    It is tough enough to overcome the natural variance in a game and a season.

    But now you have to overcome incompetent managing and GM oversight with starters.

    Teams continue to change out pitchers until they 'find' one the other team can hit.

    You have starters (by definition, elite hitters) eventually going against sub-par pitchers (by definition, they are not starters or closers or even setup guys).

    So, naturally hitters will win out in the long run.

    Teams consistently are losing games they were winning because of this mismanagement of pitchers.

    My rant of the day.

    peace_5

    Reply
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    Report User

    It is ridiculous to watch this as a fan.  It is absurd to watch it as a bettor.

    It is tough enough to overcome the natural variance in a game and a season.

    But now you have to overcome incompetent managing and GM oversight with starters.

    Teams continue to change out pitchers until they 'find' one the other team can hit.

    You have starters (by definition, elite hitters) eventually going against sub-par pitchers (by definition, they are not starters or closers or even setup guys).

    So, naturally hitters will win out in the long run.

    Teams consistently are losing games they were winning because of this mismanagement of pitchers.

    My rant of the day.

    peace_5

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