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    All Forums | Investments

    Did I get screwed?

    ogmike
    MyDogLogan
    wallstreetcappers
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    Views: 276
    Posts: 9
     
    ogmike
    ogmike
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    Posts: 2947
    Posted: Jul. 13, 2007 - 5:08 PM ET #1

    ok, need to know what you guys think of this situation.  i have never had this happen to me nor have i heard of it happening.  on wednesday night i put in an order to buy Wells Fargo (WFC) at $35.00 (good till cancelled).  yesterday morning (Thursday), it opened at $35.15.  its low for the day was $34.92 and high was like $35.44 or something like that.  i didn't have access to a computer during the day but my girlfriend told me its low was $34.92.  so, i thought i was good to go, and that my order went through.
     
    well, i came home after work to see my order still pending.  i called TDAmeritrade to see what had happened, and here's what the guy told me.  first of all, he didn't even sound like he had a clue what he was talking about.  but he said that the low did reach $34.92 but it didn't reach that number on the NYSE.  it reached $34.92 on the ECM, which i guess is the Electronic Capital Market.  on the NYSE, its low was only $35.05, which obviously wasn't low enough to fulfill my order.  i never even heard of this.  if a stock's range for a day is from $34.92 to $35.44 according to Marketwatch, Schwab, and whoever else, how are we supposed to know what the low was according the NYSE?  i never even heard of the ECM. 
     
    so, i ended up buying WFC this morning for $35.34, which isn't outrageously more than what i had wanted to pay.  but it still kind of pissed me off.  have you guys ever had anything like this happen, or heard of something like this?  oh well i guess,  can't do much about it now.
     
     
    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    ok, need to know what you guys think of this situation.  i have never had this happen to me nor have i heard of it happening.  on wednesday night i put in an order to buy Wells Fargo (WFC) at $35.00 (good till cancelled).  yesterday morning (Thursday), it opened at $35.15.  its low for the day was $34.92 and high was like $35.44 or something like that.  i didn't have access to a computer during the day but my girlfriend told me its low was $34.92.  so, i thought i was good to go, and that my order went through.
     
    well, i came home after work to see my order still pending.  i called TDAmeritrade to see what had happened, and here's what the guy told me.  first of all, he didn't even sound like he had a clue what he was talking about.  but he said that the low did reach $34.92 but it didn't reach that number on the NYSE.  it reached $34.92 on the ECM, which i guess is the Electronic Capital Market.  on the NYSE, its low was only $35.05, which obviously wasn't low enough to fulfill my order.  i never even heard of this.  if a stock's range for a day is from $34.92 to $35.44 according to Marketwatch, Schwab, and whoever else, how are we supposed to know what the low was according the NYSE?  i never even heard of the ECM. 
     
    so, i ended up buying WFC this morning for $35.34, which isn't outrageously more than what i had wanted to pay.  but it still kind of pissed me off.  have you guys ever had anything like this happen, or heard of something like this?  oh well i guess,  can't do much about it now.
     
     
     
    MyDogLogan
    MyDogLogan
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    Posted: Jul. 13, 2007 - 5:49 PM ET #2

    If it didn't print on the NYSE (or a regional) during market hours then you aren't owed a fill at 35.00.  I'm not in front of a Bloomberg so I can't tell you where it hit 34.92 on Wed night. 
     
     
    Reply
    If it didn't print on the NYSE (or a regional) during market hours then you aren't owed a fill at 35.00.  I'm not in front of a Bloomberg so I can't tell you where it hit 34.92 on Wed night. 
     
     
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posts: 58464
    Posted: Jul. 13, 2007 - 7:56 PM ET #3

    Mike,

    I say the answer is-

    NO

    You were not screwed


    Reply
    Mike,

    I say the answer is-

    NO

    You were not screwed


     
    ogmike
    ogmike
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    Joined: Jul, 2002
    Posts: 2947
    Posted: Jul. 13, 2007 - 8:05 PM ET #4

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    Mike,

    I say the answer is-

    NO

    You were not screwed


     
    that is a chart from today.  if you read my post again, you'll see that i was talking about placing an order for yesterday.  yesterday's range was actually $34.92 - $35.48.  i had a limit order at $35.00 for yesterday that was never fulfilled.  i ended up buying today at $35.34; not a huge issue but a little disappointed that i couldn't get in for cheaper.
     
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    Mike,

    I say the answer is-

    NO

    You were not screwed


     
    that is a chart from today.  if you read my post again, you'll see that i was talking about placing an order for yesterday.  yesterday's range was actually $34.92 - $35.48.  i had a limit order at $35.00 for yesterday that was never fulfilled.  i ended up buying today at $35.34; not a huge issue but a little disappointed that i couldn't get in for cheaper.
     
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
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    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58464
    Posted: Jul. 13, 2007 - 10:10 PM ET #5

    Mike, How is this for an answer-

    NO

    You did not get screwed..

    Here is what the guy meant..

    The issue at hand is not the low of the day price, especially for NYSE stocks, what you needed from the Ameritrade guy is a TIME AND SALES review..they can do that, which shows the bid and ask for the stock all day and the trades as well.

    With NYSE stocks, somtimes prices are not accurate because of SOES orders, or orders between institutions..which can be outside the bid and ask of the stock to RETAIL investors. You are a retail investor and trade off the bid and ask quoted..especially NYSE stocks..wheras two institutions might swap a block of shares that dont even involve the retail market..Morgan Stanley might call up a few brokers and say they have a block to move, say 10k to even a few MILLION shares and want to know if other firms are interested..so they might agree upon a price and they have to report it to the market and the trade has to show. Many times on the CNBC ticker you will see huge orders pass, which are between two firms and are not involved in the bid and ask of the current stock price.

    So based on the RETAIL chart as I listed above, you are not due a fill...

    When I was a broker I had to explain this to people all the time, its the bid and ask you are most interested in, not the low of the day..so they guy was telling you that the low of the day was outside the retail market..which means you dont get a fill...
    Reply
    Mike, How is this for an answer-

    NO

    You did not get screwed..

    Here is what the guy meant..

    The issue at hand is not the low of the day price, especially for NYSE stocks, what you needed from the Ameritrade guy is a TIME AND SALES review..they can do that, which shows the bid and ask for the stock all day and the trades as well.

    With NYSE stocks, somtimes prices are not accurate because of SOES orders, or orders between institutions..which can be outside the bid and ask of the stock to RETAIL investors. You are a retail investor and trade off the bid and ask quoted..especially NYSE stocks..wheras two institutions might swap a block of shares that dont even involve the retail market..Morgan Stanley might call up a few brokers and say they have a block to move, say 10k to even a few MILLION shares and want to know if other firms are interested..so they might agree upon a price and they have to report it to the market and the trade has to show. Many times on the CNBC ticker you will see huge orders pass, which are between two firms and are not involved in the bid and ask of the current stock price.

    So based on the RETAIL chart as I listed above, you are not due a fill...

    When I was a broker I had to explain this to people all the time, its the bid and ask you are most interested in, not the low of the day..so they guy was telling you that the low of the day was outside the retail market..which means you dont get a fill...
     
    MyDogLogan
    MyDogLogan
    Captain
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    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 7187
    Posted: Jul. 13, 2007 - 10:15 PM ET #6

    Call your broker and ask for a printout of the time and exchange for that trade.  Shouldn't be too hard to isolate on a Bloomie.
     
    I suspect it will have an 'X' beside the print meaning out of sequence.
    Reply
    Call your broker and ask for a printout of the time and exchange for that trade.  Shouldn't be too hard to isolate on a Bloomie.
     
    I suspect it will have an 'X' beside the print meaning out of sequence.
     
    MyDogLogan
    MyDogLogan
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    Posts: 7187
    Posted: Jul. 13, 2007 - 10:20 PM ET #7

    Looking at the chart, WFC was never bid or ask 35.00.
     
    wsc is correct in his post.  Off floor trades will print but retail clients are not entitled to those prices. 
    Reply
    Looking at the chart, WFC was never bid or ask 35.00.
     
    wsc is correct in his post.  Off floor trades will print but retail clients are not entitled to those prices. 
     
    ogmike
    ogmike
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    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jul, 2002
    Posts: 2947
    Posted: Jul. 14, 2007 - 6:27 PM ET #8

    WSC and MDL, thanks again.  i think i got it now.  and i didn't read that chart thoroughly when you posted it the first time.  i just assumed it was a chart from the 13th b/c that was the date on it.  i appreciate all the input guys, i'll try to be sure i know what the hell i'm talking about next time before i post things.
     
    Reply
    WSC and MDL, thanks again.  i think i got it now.  and i didn't read that chart thoroughly when you posted it the first time.  i just assumed it was a chart from the 13th b/c that was the date on it.  i appreciate all the input guys, i'll try to be sure i know what the hell i'm talking about next time before i post things.
     
     
     
    MyDogLogan
    MyDogLogan
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 7187
    Posted: Jul. 15, 2007 - 12:09 AM ET #9

    No need to apologize.   No such thing as a dumb question when it comes to YOUR $$$.
    Reply
    No need to apologize.   No such thing as a dumb question when it comes to YOUR $$$.
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