I say case by case. It is not only the 'fast and loose' that got them. It is more those that did need them though?
My question to you is still the same. Why is there a difference in the loaning to start with?
Who do you feel should get a zero loan? Imagine it is your money you are loaning. What would you say? To two diff ppl? To two diff coms?
Not sure I understand where you are coming from. I say no one deserves 0%.
You keep talking about 2 different people or situations. Do you understand, once again, the corps in trouble didn't have good enough credit to get a loan from anyone but our government who didn't look at their financial situation when handing over a check to them. No one would have loaned them money at 0% except our gov't with those horrible balance sheets. This has been my point all along. They got 0% despite not having the good credit to qualify for that kind of rate unless it was our gov't doling it out.
I say case by case. It is not only the 'fast and loose' that got them. It is more those that did need them though?
My question to you is still the same. Why is there a difference in the loaning to start with?
Who do you feel should get a zero loan? Imagine it is your money you are loaning. What would you say? To two diff ppl? To two diff coms?
Not sure I understand where you are coming from. I say no one deserves 0%.
You keep talking about 2 different people or situations. Do you understand, once again, the corps in trouble didn't have good enough credit to get a loan from anyone but our government who didn't look at their financial situation when handing over a check to them. No one would have loaned them money at 0% except our gov't with those horrible balance sheets. This has been my point all along. They got 0% despite not having the good credit to qualify for that kind of rate unless it was our gov't doling it out.
I get y'all's points on bail outs etc but at least from Bernanke s perspective (and yall appear to be conceding) he did what he thought was best and was not acting maliciously. They honestly believed the banks were too big to fail and I'm not sure I don't agree. In fact, in reading thru the articles on grading his performance 1 of the consensus downgrades was his allowing Lehman to go under. I don't think people realize how serious the crisis was and as an investor if they would have allowed the others to go under there is no telling how far the economy would have fallen. They also downgraded him for the events leading up to the recession but I place the blame on Greenspan more than Bernanke and, more so, on the lax home lending regs as well as the mort security gimmicks.
I get y'all's points on bail outs etc but at least from Bernanke s perspective (and yall appear to be conceding) he did what he thought was best and was not acting maliciously. They honestly believed the banks were too big to fail and I'm not sure I don't agree. In fact, in reading thru the articles on grading his performance 1 of the consensus downgrades was his allowing Lehman to go under. I don't think people realize how serious the crisis was and as an investor if they would have allowed the others to go under there is no telling how far the economy would have fallen. They also downgraded him for the events leading up to the recession but I place the blame on Greenspan more than Bernanke and, more so, on the lax home lending regs as well as the mort security gimmicks.
How long do you think it takes the average person to save 200k? You do realize that if everyone waited to purchase something with cash our economy would be dead don't you? I am not saying people should spend poorly but to pay cash for everything in life just isn't realistic. I have a nice home with a modest amount owed. I am just fine. I am at the point in my life now where I am more concerned about enjoying myself. Heck, I'm going to Europe next year for 3 months to play golf and study my ancestory. Financially my life is fine.
As long as it takes if that is where they want to start. Don't have to start there. Work your way up to 200k. Another of my points is folks don't want to wait. If it took 20 yrs? 30? Or if your sole goal was only to save the 200k you could easily do it in just over 6.5 years. But that is money that should be going to retirement, etc. I know because that is the same as you would invest for retirement at an accelerated rate---with that as your main goal! But that would be the avg income using only half to live on and half to invest. Many, many have done it. So don't say it can't be done. The point is people do not want to wait.
They want it now.
They want too much.
They forget about risk.
For example, you say you couldn't rent out the rental. That is not exactly true. You couldn't rent it out for what you wanted/needed to rent it out for. If you had no risk or no debt then that wouldn't have been as big a deal. You could've gotten by basically with a dependable cheap renter---or no renter at all until the market turned around.
The bottom line is many, many people live debt free and pay cash. No the economy wouldn't collapse. Sure loan industry would. Haha! But so what? Unless you work in that field. Right?
How long do you think it takes the average person to save 200k? You do realize that if everyone waited to purchase something with cash our economy would be dead don't you? I am not saying people should spend poorly but to pay cash for everything in life just isn't realistic. I have a nice home with a modest amount owed. I am just fine. I am at the point in my life now where I am more concerned about enjoying myself. Heck, I'm going to Europe next year for 3 months to play golf and study my ancestory. Financially my life is fine.
As long as it takes if that is where they want to start. Don't have to start there. Work your way up to 200k. Another of my points is folks don't want to wait. If it took 20 yrs? 30? Or if your sole goal was only to save the 200k you could easily do it in just over 6.5 years. But that is money that should be going to retirement, etc. I know because that is the same as you would invest for retirement at an accelerated rate---with that as your main goal! But that would be the avg income using only half to live on and half to invest. Many, many have done it. So don't say it can't be done. The point is people do not want to wait.
They want it now.
They want too much.
They forget about risk.
For example, you say you couldn't rent out the rental. That is not exactly true. You couldn't rent it out for what you wanted/needed to rent it out for. If you had no risk or no debt then that wouldn't have been as big a deal. You could've gotten by basically with a dependable cheap renter---or no renter at all until the market turned around.
The bottom line is many, many people live debt free and pay cash. No the economy wouldn't collapse. Sure loan industry would. Haha! But so what? Unless you work in that field. Right?
Also very glad you have your finances in order. I see so many people that do not.
What part of Europe? What part of year? Love to travel and have been nearly everywhere there for work and fun. Certainly a lot to see and do all over. Will be a very enjoyable trip. Not into the ancestry thing much. But I have been in ancient buildings and things like that. It would be amazing to imagine that your family once stood in the same buildings etc.
Also very glad you have your finances in order. I see so many people that do not.
What part of Europe? What part of year? Love to travel and have been nearly everywhere there for work and fun. Certainly a lot to see and do all over. Will be a very enjoyable trip. Not into the ancestry thing much. But I have been in ancient buildings and things like that. It would be amazing to imagine that your family once stood in the same buildings etc.
Not sure I understand where you are coming from. I say no one deserves 0%.
You keep talking about 2 different people or situations. Do you understand, once again, the corps in trouble didn't have good enough credit to get a loan from anyone but our government who didn't look at their financial situation when handing over a check to them. No one would have loaned them money at 0% except our gov't with those horrible balance sheets. This has been my point all along. They got 0% despite not having the good credit to qualify for that kind of rate unless it was our gov't doling it out.
Not sure I understand where you are coming from. I say no one deserves 0%.
You keep talking about 2 different people or situations. Do you understand, once again, the corps in trouble didn't have good enough credit to get a loan from anyone but our government who didn't look at their financial situation when handing over a check to them. No one would have loaned them money at 0% except our gov't with those horrible balance sheets. This has been my point all along. They got 0% despite not having the good credit to qualify for that kind of rate unless it was our gov't doling it out.
That is not to let Greenspan off the hook. And of course most of the articles are from biased sources. But they will give you the gist of it. Planning and foresight could've been better as you can see. But there are reasons Ron Paul and others call for the dismantling of the Fed.
My point was if you are the leading expert on our worst financial crisis and can't see another one coming. Completely tried to swerve it at every turn.
Sure he was out in a tough spot. But bad economy, Greenspan, his history of Depression, newly appointed. All of that. But just because we didn't bail out banks once---does it mean we have to bail them out now? Maybe, maybe not. Look at some of his quotes and thoughts leading up to and during the recession. You know he is very smart. So, why didn't he think it could've happened again? For sure, congress and others had a role in setting it up. But many, many avg economists saw it coming for what it was.
Maybe he was trying to calm the folks down. Who knows.
That is not to let Greenspan off the hook. And of course most of the articles are from biased sources. But they will give you the gist of it. Planning and foresight could've been better as you can see. But there are reasons Ron Paul and others call for the dismantling of the Fed.
My point was if you are the leading expert on our worst financial crisis and can't see another one coming. Completely tried to swerve it at every turn.
Sure he was out in a tough spot. But bad economy, Greenspan, his history of Depression, newly appointed. All of that. But just because we didn't bail out banks once---does it mean we have to bail them out now? Maybe, maybe not. Look at some of his quotes and thoughts leading up to and during the recession. You know he is very smart. So, why didn't he think it could've happened again? For sure, congress and others had a role in setting it up. But many, many avg economists saw it coming for what it was.
Maybe he was trying to calm the folks down. Who knows.
As long as it takes if that is where they want to start. Don't have to start there. Work your way up to 200k. Another of my points is folks don't want to wait. If it took 20 yrs? 30? Or if your sole goal was only to save the 200k you could easily do it in just over 6.5 years. But that is money that should be going to retirement, etc. I know because that is the same as you would invest for retirement at an accelerated rate---with that as your main goal! But that would be the avg income using only half to live on and half to invest. Many, many have done it. So don't say it can't be done. The point is people do not want to wait.
They want it now.
They want too much.
They forget about risk.
For example, you say you couldn't rent out the rental. That is not exactly true. You couldn't rent it out for what you wanted/needed to rent it out for. If you had no risk or no debt then that wouldn't have been as big a deal. You could've gotten by basically with a dependable cheap renter---or no renter at all until the market turned around.
The bottom line is many, many people live debt free and pay cash. No the economy wouldn't collapse. Sure loan industry would. Haha! But so what? Unless you work in that field. Right?
How many successful people today do you think never accumulated any debt? What percentage of the population is debt free? I can promise you it is single digits. Do you remember 2008 and no one was spending money? How was the economy? What percentage of homes in this country have no debt? Do you realize that the majority people in this nation don't have 3 months worth of savings if they lost their jobs? Not saying it's right, just the way it is. What do you think happens to the housing industry if nobody can borrow for a home? No brainier, it collapses.
Debt isn't always a bad thing. It depends on how much you are carrying and at what percentage. Very few successful people never accumulated any debt. Most people don't have wealthy family and friends to borrow from. That is what is so great about this country, a person can take chances.
As long as it takes if that is where they want to start. Don't have to start there. Work your way up to 200k. Another of my points is folks don't want to wait. If it took 20 yrs? 30? Or if your sole goal was only to save the 200k you could easily do it in just over 6.5 years. But that is money that should be going to retirement, etc. I know because that is the same as you would invest for retirement at an accelerated rate---with that as your main goal! But that would be the avg income using only half to live on and half to invest. Many, many have done it. So don't say it can't be done. The point is people do not want to wait.
They want it now.
They want too much.
They forget about risk.
For example, you say you couldn't rent out the rental. That is not exactly true. You couldn't rent it out for what you wanted/needed to rent it out for. If you had no risk or no debt then that wouldn't have been as big a deal. You could've gotten by basically with a dependable cheap renter---or no renter at all until the market turned around.
The bottom line is many, many people live debt free and pay cash. No the economy wouldn't collapse. Sure loan industry would. Haha! But so what? Unless you work in that field. Right?
How many successful people today do you think never accumulated any debt? What percentage of the population is debt free? I can promise you it is single digits. Do you remember 2008 and no one was spending money? How was the economy? What percentage of homes in this country have no debt? Do you realize that the majority people in this nation don't have 3 months worth of savings if they lost their jobs? Not saying it's right, just the way it is. What do you think happens to the housing industry if nobody can borrow for a home? No brainier, it collapses.
Debt isn't always a bad thing. It depends on how much you are carrying and at what percentage. Very few successful people never accumulated any debt. Most people don't have wealthy family and friends to borrow from. That is what is so great about this country, a person can take chances.
Also very glad you have your finances in order. I see so many people that do not.
What part of Europe? What part of year? Love to travel and have been nearly everywhere there for work and fun. Certainly a lot to see and do all over. Will be a very enjoyable trip. Not into the ancestry thing much. But I have been in ancient buildings and things like that. It would be amazing to imagine that your family once stood in the same buildings etc.
Heading out in June 2016. Three months minimum. Wife likes the ancestory and I want to golf. Most time will be spent in Ireland. Wife will be looking for work as well in Ireland. Portugal looks intriguing to me as I see the cost of living is reasonable and they have lots of golf. Just gonna let wife call most of the shots. This is really her deal.
Also very glad you have your finances in order. I see so many people that do not.
What part of Europe? What part of year? Love to travel and have been nearly everywhere there for work and fun. Certainly a lot to see and do all over. Will be a very enjoyable trip. Not into the ancestry thing much. But I have been in ancient buildings and things like that. It would be amazing to imagine that your family once stood in the same buildings etc.
Heading out in June 2016. Three months minimum. Wife likes the ancestory and I want to golf. Most time will be spent in Ireland. Wife will be looking for work as well in Ireland. Portugal looks intriguing to me as I see the cost of living is reasonable and they have lots of golf. Just gonna let wife call most of the shots. This is really her deal.
Nope. That is what friends and family do. Banks do not do that. And again---why is that?
Because we the people are being taken advantage of regarding borrowing. As I have stated numerous times, the people in charge of these financial institutions, failed. If you fail, a 0% loan shouldn't be on the table, period. It sure isn't for Joe Citizen. Banks should have had a loan/debt rate of 20/1. When in reality they were ballooning themselves up to 60/1. Now taxpayers will pick up the tab so that banks can borrow from the gov. at 0%.
I understand if I fail to run my business correctly/financially I will lose my business. I do not have the safety net of a 0% gov, loan to fall back on. Why are financial companies different?
Nope. That is what friends and family do. Banks do not do that. And again---why is that?
Because we the people are being taken advantage of regarding borrowing. As I have stated numerous times, the people in charge of these financial institutions, failed. If you fail, a 0% loan shouldn't be on the table, period. It sure isn't for Joe Citizen. Banks should have had a loan/debt rate of 20/1. When in reality they were ballooning themselves up to 60/1. Now taxpayers will pick up the tab so that banks can borrow from the gov. at 0%.
I understand if I fail to run my business correctly/financially I will lose my business. I do not have the safety net of a 0% gov, loan to fall back on. Why are financial companies different?
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