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Rule about a defender out of bounds in on a play

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Posted: #1
Can someone familiar with NCAAF rules cite the specific rule on this?

In another thread their is a disagreement about whether there should have been a penalty on the W MIch player who caused that fumble in the 2nd quarter.  Can a defender who has a foot out of bounds touch the ball being carried by the offensive player without there being a penalty?  I don't care about whether it was stripped while he was out of bounds, he was most definitely touching it while out of bounds which seems like interference but I can't find a rule specifically referring to it. 
 
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Posted: #2
Hmmm
 I could only find this:

Question: In college football if a defensive player goes out of bounds can he come back onto the field of play and make a tackle ?

Answer: Yes.
NCAA: The only 2 restrictions about players going out of bounds and returning are:
1) A kicking team player may not voluntarily go out of bounds and return. 5yd penaty from previous spot.
2) An eligible offensive receiver may not voluntarily go out of bounds and return and be the first to touch a legal forward pass. Loss of down at the previous spot.

 
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Posted: #3
Quote Originally Posted by VicRaven:

Hmmm
 I could only find this:

Question: In college football if a defensive player goes out of bounds can he come back onto the field of play and make a tackle ?

Answer: Yes.
NCAA: The only 2 restrictions about players going out of bounds and returning are:
1) A kicking team player may not voluntarily go out of bounds and return. 5yd penaty from previous spot.
2) An eligible offensive receiver may not voluntarily go out of bounds and return and be the first to touch a legal forward pass. Loss of down at the previous spot.


Right I know about those two scenarios.

I just can't find anything about a defensive player being involved in a play while out of bounds
 
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Posted: #4
Sorry, man. I figured you knew what I posted. 
 
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Posted: #5

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Quote Originally Posted by thecentaur:

Can someone familiar with NCAAF rules cite the specific rule on this?

In another thread their is a disagreement about whether there should have been a penalty on the W MIch player who caused that fumble in the 2nd quarter.  Can a defender who has a foot out of bounds touch the ball being carried by the offensive player without there being a penalty?  I don't care about whether it was stripped while he was out of bounds, he was most definitely touching it while out of bounds which seems like interference but I can't find a rule specifically referring to it. 

Seems to me that it would be a no fumble being that an out of bounds player touched a live ball which is still in play. Just like recovering a ball out of bounds. It goes back to the offensive team. No penalty should be assessed for an out of bounds player touching the ball unless he was never on the field in the first place. Then that player would be guilty of illegal participation.

 
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Posted: #6
No, it isn't interference.  Only the offensive player is prohibited. 


 
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Posted: #7
Quote Originally Posted by tinfoils:

Seems to me that it would be a no fumble being that an out of bounds player touched a live ball which is still in play. 


Only if it is a loose ball when the defensive player touches it.  In the play in this game it looked like the defensive player was back in bounds when the strip occurred.
 
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Posted: #8
Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:


Only if it is a loose ball when the defensive player touches it.  In the play in this game it looked like the defensive player was back in bounds when the strip occurred.

Ok so you are saying a defender can still legally make tackles or break up passes while out of bounds also?  I just never knew that.  I looked through NCAAF and NFL rulebooks and couldn't find a rule specifically referring to these situations
 
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Posted: #9
Quote Originally Posted by VicRaven:

Hmmm
 I could only find this:

Question: In college football if a defensive player goes out of bounds can he come back onto the field of play and make a tackle ?

Answer: Yes.
NCAA: The only 2 restrictions about players going out of bounds and returning are:
1) A kicking team player may not voluntarily go out of bounds and return. 5yd penaty from previous spot.
2) An eligible offensive receiver may not voluntarily go out of bounds and return and be the first to touch a legal forward pass. Loss of down at the previous spot.


Nope Def fumble per rules above! W Mich and overs WINNER winner
 
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Posted: #10
Quote Originally Posted by thecentaur:


Ok so you are saying a defender can still legally make tackles or break up passes while out of bounds also?  I just never knew that.  I looked through NCAAF and NFL rulebooks and couldn't find a rule specifically referring to these situations

Yes.

Have you ever seen a defender try to tip-toe the side line while making a tackle to stay in bounds?
 
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Posted: #11
Quote Originally Posted by VicRaven:

Sorry, man. I figured you knew what I posted. 

No problem
 
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Posted: #12
Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:


Yes.

Have you ever seen a defender try to tip-toe the side line while making a tackle to stay in bounds?

Nope

Would still like to see the rule though. 
 
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Posted: #13
Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:


Yes.

Have you ever seen a defender try to tip-toe the side line while making a tackle to stay in bounds?


No, but Ive never seen a player standing out-of-bounds begin to force a fumble and then recover it 
 
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Posted: #14
The thing you keep missing is the defender had re-established himself before the strip happened.
 
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Posted: #15
Here is the rule Centaur.  It clearly states if the ball is in the offensive player's possession and he contacts another player who is out of bounds, then the ball is still in bounds.


Page FR-59

Held Ball Out of Bounds
ARTICLE 2. A ball in player possession is out of bounds when either the ball
or any part of the ball carrier touches the ground or anything else that is out of
bounds, or that is on or outside a boundary line except another player or game
official.



 
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Posted: #16
Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:

Here is the rule Centaur.  It clearly states if the ball is in the offensive player's possession and he contacts another player who is out of bounds, then the ball is still in bounds.


Page FR-59

Held Ball Out of Bounds
ARTICLE 2. A ball in player possession is out of bounds when either the ball
or any part of the ball carrier touches the ground or anything else that is out of
bounds, or that is on or outside a boundary line except another player or game
official.





The question is about the running-back being out of bounds, he wasnt.  The question was, which maybe it is incorrect, it looked like the defender was holding on to the ball and forcing the fumble while out-of-bounds. 

 It just doesnt make sense a defender can be out-of-bounds while contacting the ball, then force a fumble and recover it.  Every other scenario in which a player is out-of-bounds on the ground and while contacting the football, the ball is dead.
 
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Posted: #17
Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:

Here is the rule Centaur.  It clearly states if the ball is in the offensive player's possession and he contacts another player who is out of bounds, then the ball is still in bounds.


Page FR-59

Held Ball Out of Bounds
ARTICLE 2. A ball in player possession is out of bounds when either the ball
or any part of the ball carrier touches the ground or anything else that is out of
bounds, or that is on or outside a boundary line except another player or game
official.




I saw that rule

I am not trying to be argumentative here, but that rule is obviously in place to prevent an offensive player from being penalized for running into an official or player who is partly out of bounds and gets in the way.  This isn't about whether the runner was out of bounds, it's whether a defender can actively and purposefully participate in the play while out of bounds.
 
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Posted: #18
Quote Originally Posted by LETGOPACK1234:



The question is about the running-back being out of bounds, he wasnt.  The question was, which maybe it is incorrect, it looked like the defender was holding on to the ball and forcing the fumble while out-of-bounds. 



The ball was in possession of the offensive player.  The rule states that it is still in bounds even if the ball contacts a defensive player who is out of bounds.  The defensive player had clearly established himself in bounds before he gained possession of the ball.
 
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Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:


The ball was in possession of the offensive player.  The rule states that it is still in bounds even if the ball contacts a defensive player who is out of bounds.  The defensive player had clearly established himself in bounds before he gained possession of the ball.

I'm not arguing if the runner is still considered in bounds, I'm asking is it legal for a defender to actively participate in a play or touch the ball while out of bounds
 
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Posted: #20
Quote Originally Posted by thecentaur:


I'm not arguing if the runner is still considered in bounds, I'm asking is it legal for a defender to actively participate in a play or touch the ball while out of bounds

In other words it would be like defensive offsides where the defense commits a foul but the offense can continue the play
 
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Posted: #21
Quote Originally Posted by thecentaur:


In other words it would be like defensive offsides where the defense commits a foul but the offense can continue the play

If there is no penalty for doing something, then it is legal.

It would be impossible to have a rulebook where every permissable action was included.



 
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Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:


The ball was in possession of the offensive player.  The rule states that it is still in bounds even if the ball contacts a defensive player who is out of bounds.  The defensive player had clearly established himself in bounds before he gained possession of the ball.


I understand the RB had the ball.  And, I also agree the defender established himself before recovering. 

It just doesnt make sense, the defender can be standing out-of-bounds touching the ball while beginning to cause a fumble.  
 
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Posted: #23
Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:


If there is no penalty for doing something, then it is legal.

It would be impossible to have a rulebook where every permissable action was included.




I agree with that but the fact that there are sidelines would seem to cover a lot of actions without having a separate rule for anything that could possibly happen
 
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Posted: #24
The fact you 2 guys still don't understand the rules is amazing really 
 
 
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[Quote: Originally Posted by TopHog] The fact you 2 guys still don't understand the rules is amazing really  [/Quote



Enough with your comments. Not everybody is a football genius like yourself.  Until you post the rule, then stop commenting.  You act like this is a play that happens in every game.  Please tell me one other game you have ever seen this happen?  Nobody is arguing the RB was out-of-bounds or the defender re-established himself.
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