The
Stanford report estimates that California's shortfall for government
pensions and health care benefits is about $535 billion (Anderson, Contra Costa Times, 4/5).
Researchers tallied CalPERS' unfunded liabilities at $239.7 billion and CalSTRS' liabilities at $156.7 billion.
The
new figures are significantly higher than previous estimates from the
pension funds. In July 2008, CalPERS estimated its unfunded liabilities
at $38.6 billion and CalSTRS estimated its liabilities at $16.2 billion
(AP/Ventura County Star, 4/5).
Pension Liabilities Could Lead To Health Cuts, Other Changes
The
Stanford report suggests that California would need to put $360 billion
into its pension and health benefit systems immediately to have an 80%
chance of meeting 80% of the obligations within 16 years (Contra Costa Times, 4/5).
Schwarzenegger in a statement
said the study "reinforces the immediate need to address our staggering
pension debt." He added, "The consequences are clear: increasingly
large portions of state funding for programs Californians hold dear
such as schools, parks and health care will be diverted to pay for this
debt.""
Insanity! I like how Ahnold throws a shot out by saying that politically popular programs will suffer drastic funds cuts in order to pay for the debt, good framing by him.
The
Stanford report estimates that California's shortfall for government
pensions and health care benefits is about $535 billion (Anderson, Contra Costa Times, 4/5).
Researchers tallied CalPERS' unfunded liabilities at $239.7 billion and CalSTRS' liabilities at $156.7 billion.
The
new figures are significantly higher than previous estimates from the
pension funds. In July 2008, CalPERS estimated its unfunded liabilities
at $38.6 billion and CalSTRS estimated its liabilities at $16.2 billion
(AP/Ventura County Star, 4/5).
Pension Liabilities Could Lead To Health Cuts, Other Changes
The
Stanford report suggests that California would need to put $360 billion
into its pension and health benefit systems immediately to have an 80%
chance of meeting 80% of the obligations within 16 years (Contra Costa Times, 4/5).
Schwarzenegger in a statement
said the study "reinforces the immediate need to address our staggering
pension debt." He added, "The consequences are clear: increasingly
large portions of state funding for programs Californians hold dear
such as schools, parks and health care will be diverted to pay for this
debt.""
Insanity! I like how Ahnold throws a shot out by saying that politically popular programs will suffer drastic funds cuts in order to pay for the debt, good framing by him.
fwiw - calpers and other public pension plan assume 8% rate of return. also these calpers folks own an assload of commercial real estate and some nice CDOs as well
is it so hard to sit this money in cash or in t bills for 30 years? people get out what they put in...of course purchasing power has been destroyed by the Fed
in due time, SS checks, public pension checks will all be paid by the Federal Reserve with its magic money printing pixie dust and wand once the state and federal governments cannot handle this debt load
when that happens, bread will cost 100 bernanke bucks per loaf
fwiw - calpers and other public pension plan assume 8% rate of return. also these calpers folks own an assload of commercial real estate and some nice CDOs as well
is it so hard to sit this money in cash or in t bills for 30 years? people get out what they put in...of course purchasing power has been destroyed by the Fed
in due time, SS checks, public pension checks will all be paid by the Federal Reserve with its magic money printing pixie dust and wand once the state and federal governments cannot handle this debt load
when that happens, bread will cost 100 bernanke bucks per loaf
All they need to do is file bankruptcy...then the union contracts can be used to wipe their a$$es as that is all it will be good for.
Great idea, stiff the worker who already completed their obligation..
Awesome thinking we have in this thread..when an obligation is created we are ok, when the benefit of the contract is received from the worker we are ok. Then when the obligation is not properly allocated and accounted for we want to file BK or stiff the worker.
All they need to do is file bankruptcy...then the union contracts can be used to wipe their a$$es as that is all it will be good for.
Great idea, stiff the worker who already completed their obligation..
Awesome thinking we have in this thread..when an obligation is created we are ok, when the benefit of the contract is received from the worker we are ok. Then when the obligation is not properly allocated and accounted for we want to file BK or stiff the worker.
Great idea, stiff the worker who already completed their obligation..
Awesome thinking we have in this thread..when an obligation is created we are ok, when the benefit of the contract is received from the worker we are ok. Then when the obligation is not properly allocated and accounted for we want to file BK or stiff the worker.
We have turned into a selfish, unethical society.
i dont think they should be stiffed but will there be any other option? where are you going to get half a trillion extra dollars? just tax the rich some more?
hey wall, while ago you posted a link about why the end of the world scenario would never actually happen...id appreciate it if you could post it again for me.
Great idea, stiff the worker who already completed their obligation..
Awesome thinking we have in this thread..when an obligation is created we are ok, when the benefit of the contract is received from the worker we are ok. Then when the obligation is not properly allocated and accounted for we want to file BK or stiff the worker.
We have turned into a selfish, unethical society.
i dont think they should be stiffed but will there be any other option? where are you going to get half a trillion extra dollars? just tax the rich some more?
hey wall, while ago you posted a link about why the end of the world scenario would never actually happen...id appreciate it if you could post it again for me.
i dont think they should be stiffed but will there be any other option? where are you going to get half a trillion extra dollars? just tax the rich some more?
hey wall, while ago you posted a link about why the end of the world scenario would never actually happen...id appreciate it if you could post it again for me.
Does not ring a bell honestly.
To answer the question there are several ways to deal with a shortfall..think of it as if you were short personally.
You could-
-File for BK and dump the obligations onto others and skip happily down the street
-Cut spending and/or get another job, find ways to increase your income
Which makes more sense? The answer you give might shed light on how responsible you are (or irresponsible).
i dont think they should be stiffed but will there be any other option? where are you going to get half a trillion extra dollars? just tax the rich some more?
hey wall, while ago you posted a link about why the end of the world scenario would never actually happen...id appreciate it if you could post it again for me.
Does not ring a bell honestly.
To answer the question there are several ways to deal with a shortfall..think of it as if you were short personally.
You could-
-File for BK and dump the obligations onto others and skip happily down the street
-Cut spending and/or get another job, find ways to increase your income
Which makes more sense? The answer you give might shed light on how responsible you are (or irresponsible).
obviously the responsible thing to do is option two.
i never said i was responsible, but i acknowledge the fact that if i am, the consequences are solely mine.
the government is not willing to cut spending. i obviously think they should cut spending. but how does the government get another job? how to they find ways to increase their income? just tax the rich some more?
obviously the responsible thing to do is option two.
i never said i was responsible, but i acknowledge the fact that if i am, the consequences are solely mine.
the government is not willing to cut spending. i obviously think they should cut spending. but how does the government get another job? how to they find ways to increase their income? just tax the rich some more?
i know, that would honestly be one of my solutions to the shortfall. i am not in favor of the government taxing the hell out of products, drugs included, but it would seem to be a logical way to increase funds. free some non-violent prisoners, which would also cut spending. if they set up online sportsbooks and poker sites they could fund the shortfalls in no time as well. like i said, i am not in favor of the government offering these services, i think they should be private businesses, but i would gladly allow the government to sell weed and gambling in exchange for lower taxes.
i know, that would honestly be one of my solutions to the shortfall. i am not in favor of the government taxing the hell out of products, drugs included, but it would seem to be a logical way to increase funds. free some non-violent prisoners, which would also cut spending. if they set up online sportsbooks and poker sites they could fund the shortfalls in no time as well. like i said, i am not in favor of the government offering these services, i think they should be private businesses, but i would gladly allow the government to sell weed and gambling in exchange for lower taxes.
if the lottery can fund education let the cali weed fund the pensions
seems fitting
Of course that is the typical response..make another bad decision after making bad decisions for decades..great thinking.
Fund pensions with the lotto, cut spending, change the archaic property tax grandfathering joke..have property tax properly assessed, that is a novel idea.
if the lottery can fund education let the cali weed fund the pensions
seems fitting
Of course that is the typical response..make another bad decision after making bad decisions for decades..great thinking.
Fund pensions with the lotto, cut spending, change the archaic property tax grandfathering joke..have property tax properly assessed, that is a novel idea.
Great idea, stiff the worker who already completed their obligation..
Awesome thinking we have in this thread..when an obligation is created we are ok, when the benefit of the contract is received from the worker we are ok. Then when the obligation is not properly allocated and accounted for we want to file BK or stiff the worker.
We have turned into a selfish, unethical society.
This is what todays me me me generation does best.
Great idea, stiff the worker who already completed their obligation..
Awesome thinking we have in this thread..when an obligation is created we are ok, when the benefit of the contract is received from the worker we are ok. Then when the obligation is not properly allocated and accounted for we want to file BK or stiff the worker.
We have turned into a selfish, unethical society.
This is what todays me me me generation does best.
obviously the responsible thing to do is option two.
i never said i was responsible, but i acknowledge the fact that if i am, the consequences are solely mine.
the government is not willing to cut spending. i obviously think they should cut spending. but how does the government get another job? how to they find ways to increase their income? just tax the rich some more?
obviously the responsible thing to do is option two.
i never said i was responsible, but i acknowledge the fact that if i am, the consequences are solely mine.
the government is not willing to cut spending. i obviously think they should cut spending. but how does the government get another job? how to they find ways to increase their income? just tax the rich some more?
Gotta be some type of opportunities with the illegal aliens there.
If they are gonna live there anyway, go ahead and give them Amnesty or something and a social security number and at least get them into the tax system.
Gotta be some type of opportunities with the illegal aliens there.
If they are gonna live there anyway, go ahead and give them Amnesty or something and a social security number and at least get them into the tax system.
Govt is growing larger. Private sector is growing smaller.
Like every other union - the pensions are unsustainable. They are getting less in, paying more out. Someone has to make up the difference, they have been running a deficit for years.
By the way, in case you're wondering, California state
workers get the following benefits: "3 percent of pay for every year
worked, up to 90 percent maximum after 30 years for safety
officers and 60 percent for other employees."
Where
can non-government workers get 60% of their salary guaranteed in
retirement? If you discover a place that allows non-executives to claim
the 60% retirement bracket, let me know. I won't be holding my breath.
The system itself is broken...You guys want it both ways, the
compassion of government without the cost of doing it. Keep voting for
hope and change...
The unfortunate truth is that the Democrat-controlled Legislature
has been too quick to increase pension benefits and will resist
reconsidering them unless it's forced to. Now is the time to do that....
The private sector has all but
abolished defined benefit pensions in favor of 401ks. Why should
he/she support through his/her tax dollars govt workers retiring in their
50's as they work into their 70's just to make ends meet. Screaming
unfair that this public segment of our population have
privileges denied to their private counterparts. Reform is inevitable.
Govt is growing larger. Private sector is growing smaller.
Like every other union - the pensions are unsustainable. They are getting less in, paying more out. Someone has to make up the difference, they have been running a deficit for years.
By the way, in case you're wondering, California state
workers get the following benefits: "3 percent of pay for every year
worked, up to 90 percent maximum after 30 years for safety
officers and 60 percent for other employees."
Where
can non-government workers get 60% of their salary guaranteed in
retirement? If you discover a place that allows non-executives to claim
the 60% retirement bracket, let me know. I won't be holding my breath.
The system itself is broken...You guys want it both ways, the
compassion of government without the cost of doing it. Keep voting for
hope and change...
The unfortunate truth is that the Democrat-controlled Legislature
has been too quick to increase pension benefits and will resist
reconsidering them unless it's forced to. Now is the time to do that....
The private sector has all but
abolished defined benefit pensions in favor of 401ks. Why should
he/she support through his/her tax dollars govt workers retiring in their
50's as they work into their 70's just to make ends meet. Screaming
unfair that this public segment of our population have
privileges denied to their private counterparts. Reform is inevitable.
Govt is growing larger. Private sector is growing smaller.
Like every other union - the pensions are unsustainable. They are getting less in, paying more out. Someone has to make up the difference, they have been running a deficit for years.
By the way, in case you're wondering, California state
workers get the following benefits: "3 percent of pay for every year
worked, up to 90 percent maximum after 30 years for safety
officers and 60 percent for other employees."
Where
can non-government workers get 60% of their salary guaranteed in
retirement? If you discover a place that allows non-executives to claim
the 60% retirement bracket, let me know. I won't be holding my breath.
The system itself is broken...You guys want it both ways, the
compassion of government without the cost of doing it. Keep voting for
hope and change...
The unfortunate truth is that the Democrat-controlled Legislature
has been too quick to increase pension benefits and will resist
reconsidering them unless it's forced to. Now is the time to do that....
The private sector has all but
abolished defined benefit pensions in favor of 401ks. Why should
he/she support through his/her tax dollars govt workers retiring in their
50's as they work into their 70's just to make ends meet. Screaming
unfair that this public segment of our population have
privileges denied to their private counterparts. Reform is inevitable.
Govt is growing larger. Private sector is growing smaller.
Like every other union - the pensions are unsustainable. They are getting less in, paying more out. Someone has to make up the difference, they have been running a deficit for years.
By the way, in case you're wondering, California state
workers get the following benefits: "3 percent of pay for every year
worked, up to 90 percent maximum after 30 years for safety
officers and 60 percent for other employees."
Where
can non-government workers get 60% of their salary guaranteed in
retirement? If you discover a place that allows non-executives to claim
the 60% retirement bracket, let me know. I won't be holding my breath.
The system itself is broken...You guys want it both ways, the
compassion of government without the cost of doing it. Keep voting for
hope and change...
The unfortunate truth is that the Democrat-controlled Legislature
has been too quick to increase pension benefits and will resist
reconsidering them unless it's forced to. Now is the time to do that....
The private sector has all but
abolished defined benefit pensions in favor of 401ks. Why should
he/she support through his/her tax dollars govt workers retiring in their
50's as they work into their 70's just to make ends meet. Screaming
unfair that this public segment of our population have
privileges denied to their private counterparts. Reform is inevitable.
fwiw - today NJ announced their sales tax receipts will be an additional 250m less than expected from january's numbers
i told christie's office i'd be happy to send a machete to cut the budget even further
its all a big mirage...no green shoots, no recovery, sales taxes cratering...seems that no one has realized it. the stock market is irrelevant. S&P companies announce 2.5b in Q1 write downs and the mkt still goes up. should have had 5% chopped from it in a week. all a big game
fwiw - today NJ announced their sales tax receipts will be an additional 250m less than expected from january's numbers
i told christie's office i'd be happy to send a machete to cut the budget even further
its all a big mirage...no green shoots, no recovery, sales taxes cratering...seems that no one has realized it. the stock market is irrelevant. S&P companies announce 2.5b in Q1 write downs and the mkt still goes up. should have had 5% chopped from it in a week. all a big game
This is what todays me me me generation does best.
ironic since the me me me generation as you put it will be spending our days in debt slavery to make sure the boomers have cushy retirements that theyve been promised...as will our kids and our kids kids
100 trillion in SS and medicare underfunded
of course everyone paid in so they have to get it right?
This is what todays me me me generation does best.
ironic since the me me me generation as you put it will be spending our days in debt slavery to make sure the boomers have cushy retirements that theyve been promised...as will our kids and our kids kids
100 trillion in SS and medicare underfunded
of course everyone paid in so they have to get it right?
ironic since the me me me generation as you put it will be spending our days in debt slavery to make sure the boomers have cushy retirements that theyve been promised...as will our kids and our kids kids
100 trillion in SS and medicare underfunded
of course everyone paid in so they have to get it right?
yep, hey koaj, i posted a SS article from zerohedge, which you turned me on to. i appreciate that. anyway, do you know of any valid counters to the whole 'day of reckoning is near' crowd? the doomsdayers just make a lot of sense to me and it scares me. i want to know that i am not having tunnel vision because that is the only types of articles i choose to read. maybe there isnt such a thing because as denninger always says, the math doesnt lie, or cash flow will always prevail. i would just like to know that i am not ignorant to the other side of the argument because that would really be no different than those people who only watch fox news or only watch the liberal stations..
oh and if you could move that SS thread into the politics forum i would appreciate it.
of course everyone paid in so they have to get it right?
as far as this goes...check out the first chart in that zerohedge article and just see what a nice smooth line that is, and where its heading....
what's a couple hundred trillion amongst fellow citizens??
ironic since the me me me generation as you put it will be spending our days in debt slavery to make sure the boomers have cushy retirements that theyve been promised...as will our kids and our kids kids
100 trillion in SS and medicare underfunded
of course everyone paid in so they have to get it right?
yep, hey koaj, i posted a SS article from zerohedge, which you turned me on to. i appreciate that. anyway, do you know of any valid counters to the whole 'day of reckoning is near' crowd? the doomsdayers just make a lot of sense to me and it scares me. i want to know that i am not having tunnel vision because that is the only types of articles i choose to read. maybe there isnt such a thing because as denninger always says, the math doesnt lie, or cash flow will always prevail. i would just like to know that i am not ignorant to the other side of the argument because that would really be no different than those people who only watch fox news or only watch the liberal stations..
oh and if you could move that SS thread into the politics forum i would appreciate it.
of course everyone paid in so they have to get it right?
as far as this goes...check out the first chart in that zerohedge article and just see what a nice smooth line that is, and where its heading....
what's a couple hundred trillion amongst fellow citizens??
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