This is how jobs get lost overseas or to right to work states.
Come on...They turned down a $5k wage I mean bonus increase? Are you kidding me?
It's almost like they have no idea that their jobs are about to be taken to another state where they can train a whole bum load of people to run a lathe in two weeks.
These people are probably starting out at 75k per year already.
To remove first post, remove entire topic.
Union head says Boeing contract offer not much improved
This is how jobs get lost overseas or to right to work states.
Come on...They turned down a $5k wage I mean bonus increase? Are you kidding me?
It's almost like they have no idea that their jobs are about to be taken to another state where they can train a whole bum load of people to run a lathe in two weeks.
These people are probably starting out at 75k per year already.
This is how jobs get lost overseas or to right to work states.
Come on...They turned down a $5k wage I mean bonus increase? Are you kidding me?
It's almost like they have no idea that their jobs are about to be taken to another state where they can train a whole bum load of people to run a lathe in two weeks.
These people are probably starting out at 75k per year already.
Who do you work for? Let me know because after training I will offer to do your job for 10% less. TIA
Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:
Union head says Boeing contract offer not much improved
This is how jobs get lost overseas or to right to work states.
Come on...They turned down a $5k wage I mean bonus increase? Are you kidding me?
It's almost like they have no idea that their jobs are about to be taken to another state where they can train a whole bum load of people to run a lathe in two weeks.
These people are probably starting out at 75k per year already.
Who do you work for? Let me know because after training I will offer to do your job for 10% less. TIA
After the union turned down the first contract offer last month, Boeing
received proposals from 22 states interested in hosting production of
the 777X, the company said on Thursday.
Hope this does not turn into a situation where a state ends up giving so many tax concessions and agrees to so much custom road work that only benefits the Boeing plant that the states taxpayers never really profit from Boeing being in the state or worse end up paying for the privalege of having a Boeing plant in the state.
Not that any corporation would would take advantage of a states desperation to bring in jobs... Lord Forbid...
Quote from the Article...
After the union turned down the first contract offer last month, Boeing
received proposals from 22 states interested in hosting production of
the 777X, the company said on Thursday.
Hope this does not turn into a situation where a state ends up giving so many tax concessions and agrees to so much custom road work that only benefits the Boeing plant that the states taxpayers never really profit from Boeing being in the state or worse end up paying for the privalege of having a Boeing plant in the state.
Not that any corporation would would take advantage of a states desperation to bring in jobs... Lord Forbid...
Actually, if you read the proposals and the whole story, these contracts make little sense.
The State gives Boeing a huge tax break and the contract proposal freezes an increase in wages, outside of the bonus, eliminates their pensions and replaces it with a workers contribution 401k, increases the costs of health insurance, and ties the workers to a lengthy employee-at-will contract AND 37 other states are vying for the same plant, making better offers.
Actually, if you read the proposals and the whole story, these contracts make little sense.
The State gives Boeing a huge tax break and the contract proposal freezes an increase in wages, outside of the bonus, eliminates their pensions and replaces it with a workers contribution 401k, increases the costs of health insurance, and ties the workers to a lengthy employee-at-will contract AND 37 other states are vying for the same plant, making better offers.
Who do you work for? Let me know because after training I will offer to do your job for 10% less. TIA
I wish you knew what you were talking about so that we could have an intelligent discussion.
Do you want to work for a fair wage or do you want to wave goodbye to your job as someone else is willing to do it for half of the fair wage they are paying you?
Quote Originally Posted by darkhorse12:
Who do you work for? Let me know because after training I will offer to do your job for 10% less. TIA
I wish you knew what you were talking about so that we could have an intelligent discussion.
Do you want to work for a fair wage or do you want to wave goodbye to your job as someone else is willing to do it for half of the fair wage they are paying you?
After the union turned down the first contract offer last month, Boeing
received proposals from 22 states interested in hosting production of
the 777X, the company said on Thursday.
Hope this does not turn into a situation where a state ends up giving so many tax concessions and agrees to so much custom road work that only benefits the Boeing plant that the states taxpayers never really profit from Boeing being in the state or worse end up paying for the privalege of having a Boeing plant in the state.
Not that any corporation would would take advantage of a states desperation to bring in jobs... Lord Forbid...
I can't tell if you're using sarcasm or not.
I for one don't mind the short term tax incentives in turn for the economic boost of direct and indirect upper middle class jobs in the area.
Quote Originally Posted by Randisist:
Quote from the Article...
After the union turned down the first contract offer last month, Boeing
received proposals from 22 states interested in hosting production of
the 777X, the company said on Thursday.
Hope this does not turn into a situation where a state ends up giving so many tax concessions and agrees to so much custom road work that only benefits the Boeing plant that the states taxpayers never really profit from Boeing being in the state or worse end up paying for the privalege of having a Boeing plant in the state.
Not that any corporation would would take advantage of a states desperation to bring in jobs... Lord Forbid...
I can't tell if you're using sarcasm or not.
I for one don't mind the short term tax incentives in turn for the economic boost of direct and indirect upper middle class jobs in the area.
Actually, if you read the proposals and the whole story, these contracts make little sense.
The State gives Boeing a huge tax break and the contract proposal freezes an increase in wages, outside of the bonus, eliminates their pensions and replaces it with a workers contribution 401k, increases the costs of health insurance, and ties the workers to a lengthy employee-at-will contract AND 37 other states are vying for the same plant, making better offers.
Ya, who needs those more sustainable 401k plans anyway?
Lets hang on to those pensions that become exponentially more and more unsustainable.
I mean who ever heard of pensions not being funded ever in the history of the world?
Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:
Actually, if you read the proposals and the whole story, these contracts make little sense.
The State gives Boeing a huge tax break and the contract proposal freezes an increase in wages, outside of the bonus, eliminates their pensions and replaces it with a workers contribution 401k, increases the costs of health insurance, and ties the workers to a lengthy employee-at-will contract AND 37 other states are vying for the same plant, making better offers.
Ya, who needs those more sustainable 401k plans anyway?
Lets hang on to those pensions that become exponentially more and more unsustainable.
I mean who ever heard of pensions not being funded ever in the history of the world?
Cut benefits and wages, blame unions when they are unhappy about it.
Just another day in the life of a multi billion dollar corporation.
I have no sympathy for Boeing, they are strong financially and if it were not for these horrible unions they would not be making the equipment/capital goods they do at the margins they do with the quality they are known for.
Yeah business as usual..
Cut benefits and wages, blame unions when they are unhappy about it.
Just another day in the life of a multi billion dollar corporation.
I have no sympathy for Boeing, they are strong financially and if it were not for these horrible unions they would not be making the equipment/capital goods they do at the margins they do with the quality they are known for.
Cut benefits and wages, blame unions when they are unhappy about it.
Just another day in the life of a multi billion dollar corporation.
I have no sympathy for Boeing, they are strong financially and if it were not for these horrible unions they would not be making the equipment/capital goods they do at the margins they do with the quality they are known for.
Not true. They can make every bit the same product they do now with non unionized labor. Everyone was trained at some point and its not like these jobs are not already 80% mechanized already.
These people that are bitching are 75k per year button pushers and one of us knows it the other one is an out of touch liberal.
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
Yeah business as usual..
Cut benefits and wages, blame unions when they are unhappy about it.
Just another day in the life of a multi billion dollar corporation.
I have no sympathy for Boeing, they are strong financially and if it were not for these horrible unions they would not be making the equipment/capital goods they do at the margins they do with the quality they are known for.
Not true. They can make every bit the same product they do now with non unionized labor. Everyone was trained at some point and its not like these jobs are not already 80% mechanized already.
These people that are bitching are 75k per year button pushers and one of us knows it the other one is an out of touch liberal.
Not true. They can make every bit the same product they do now with non unionized labor. Everyone was trained at some point and its not like these jobs are not already 80% mechanized already.
These people that are bitching are 75k per year button pushers and one of us knows it the other one is an out of touch liberal.
You don't do well with facts do you?
Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:
Not true. They can make every bit the same product they do now with non unionized labor. Everyone was trained at some point and its not like these jobs are not already 80% mechanized already.
These people that are bitching are 75k per year button pushers and one of us knows it the other one is an out of touch liberal.
Perty dam close to my 75k figure I pulled out of my arse.
Your idea of facts is using your brother's neighbor as an example to 'prove' your point.
I wasn't referring to the number. I was referring to the type of work (you called it button pushing).
It isn't. I've been to these plants. It is technical and precise and many of these people are using engineering skills without the engineering education or pay.
Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:
My guess is that you wouldn't give me credit for how good I am with facts anyway.
Perty dam close to my 75k figure I pulled out of my arse.
Your idea of facts is using your brother's neighbor as an example to 'prove' your point.
I wasn't referring to the number. I was referring to the type of work (you called it button pushing).
It isn't. I've been to these plants. It is technical and precise and many of these people are using engineering skills without the engineering education or pay.
Your idea of facts is using your brother's neighbor as an example to 'prove' your point.
I wasn't referring to the number. I was referring to the type of work (you called it button pushing).
It isn't. I've been to these plants. It is technical and precise and many of these people are using engineering skills without the engineering education or pay.
You would be surprised. You really need to think before you speak. You have no Idea what experiences I've had.
The classification of what makes a machinist at Boeing is pretty broad -
and includes guys who run machines of traditional AND special design.
We have worked on everything from parts De-greasing washers to wing skin
riveters that were operated by Union Machinists.
I think the goal of the machinist union is to capture as many labor
functions as possible under union representation - as such, there would
be a large number of these machinists (perhaps even a majority) that
wouldn't necessarily know how to operate a lathe or a milling machine
much less know the difference between them. It is a completely
different world - they run wing riveters, carbon fiber layup lines,
bushing installation tools . . . stuff that the average machinist
wouldn't even be able to identify.
They use fuselage joining jigs where lasers are used to give
guidance in alignment of individual sections and portable jigs are moved
into place with drill bushings that guide the machinist on where to
place the drill bit in his pneumatic drill (chained to the fixture) . . .
you get everything aligned and then use your drill to match drill
fastener locations, install fasteners finger tight and then move on.
Someone else follows behind and torques the fasteners to the appropriate
level and they move on. This is done over and over day in and day out
and may be the only function that this machinist does in his career.
My
sense is that this is at the lower end of compensation and it is either
a starting point from which you launch to greater aspirations OR you
are happy working here and stay till you retire.
The more complex machining operations (like taking a titanium forging
that weighs 5,000 lbs and turning it into a 1500 lb landing gear strut)
use large super profilers (Ingersol dual head units) with pallets that
weigh upwards of 20,000 lbs that are shuttled around with cars servicing
upwards of 8 - 10 machines. These guys are very skilled and manage
machines with tool carousels with multiple dozens of tools - and one
screw up is very costly - this is on the upper end of the skill level
and these guys likely receive the upper end of compensation.
I've worked with 'button pushers' and I've worked with other craftsmen. That's right....I said OTHER craftsmen.
Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:
Your idea of facts is using your brother's neighbor as an example to 'prove' your point.
I wasn't referring to the number. I was referring to the type of work (you called it button pushing).
It isn't. I've been to these plants. It is technical and precise and many of these people are using engineering skills without the engineering education or pay.
You would be surprised. You really need to think before you speak. You have no Idea what experiences I've had.
The classification of what makes a machinist at Boeing is pretty broad -
and includes guys who run machines of traditional AND special design.
We have worked on everything from parts De-greasing washers to wing skin
riveters that were operated by Union Machinists.
I think the goal of the machinist union is to capture as many labor
functions as possible under union representation - as such, there would
be a large number of these machinists (perhaps even a majority) that
wouldn't necessarily know how to operate a lathe or a milling machine
much less know the difference between them. It is a completely
different world - they run wing riveters, carbon fiber layup lines,
bushing installation tools . . . stuff that the average machinist
wouldn't even be able to identify.
They use fuselage joining jigs where lasers are used to give
guidance in alignment of individual sections and portable jigs are moved
into place with drill bushings that guide the machinist on where to
place the drill bit in his pneumatic drill (chained to the fixture) . . .
you get everything aligned and then use your drill to match drill
fastener locations, install fasteners finger tight and then move on.
Someone else follows behind and torques the fasteners to the appropriate
level and they move on. This is done over and over day in and day out
and may be the only function that this machinist does in his career.
My
sense is that this is at the lower end of compensation and it is either
a starting point from which you launch to greater aspirations OR you
are happy working here and stay till you retire.
The more complex machining operations (like taking a titanium forging
that weighs 5,000 lbs and turning it into a 1500 lb landing gear strut)
use large super profilers (Ingersol dual head units) with pallets that
weigh upwards of 20,000 lbs that are shuttled around with cars servicing
upwards of 8 - 10 machines. These guys are very skilled and manage
machines with tool carousels with multiple dozens of tools - and one
screw up is very costly - this is on the upper end of the skill level
and these guys likely receive the upper end of compensation.
I've worked with 'button pushers' and I've worked with other craftsmen. That's right....I said OTHER craftsmen.
...While Boeing’s executives showed excitement at the new production plans,
the company made no mention of its ongoing labor disputes with the
machinists’ union. The company is accused of having moved 1,000jobs out of Washington State to get back at the union. According to CBS News,
CEO Albaugh told the Seattle Times “the overriding factor was not the
business climate and it was not the wages we’re paying people today. It
was that we can’t afford to have a work stoppage every three years.”...
...While Boeing’s executives showed excitement at the new production plans,
the company made no mention of its ongoing labor disputes with the
machinists’ union. The company is accused of having moved 1,000jobs out of Washington State to get back at the union. According to CBS News,
CEO Albaugh told the Seattle Times “the overriding factor was not the
business climate and it was not the wages we’re paying people today. It
was that we can’t afford to have a work stoppage every three years.”...
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