Quote Originally Posted by juelesbenedict:
Here's what keeps getting lost in the Wisc union debate. This is about public sector workers having the right to collective bargain. This isn't about private labor, corporate greed, or the destruction of the middle class. This is about public sector workers paying their fair share of benefits and their right to collective bargain. By definition, public sector workers are paid by the state, which essentially represents all taxpayers of that state as a whole. So collective bargaining by these unions against the state allows a minority sub-sector of taxpayers and citizens to collective bargain against the other tax payers of that state. If the public sector unions win, then by default the rest of the taxpayers (aka the State) loses. What you have is the majority of taxpayers in a state being held hostage by collective bargaining of a minority into paying said minority a higher wage and benefit package then the free market would otherwise allow. I have no problem with private sector unions, as demonstrated through recent history most private sector unions will put themselves out of a job by being too greedy and sucking the company dry. I do have a problem with this happening in the public sector, since states can't declare BK and restructure debt. When these unions bleed the state dry, my taxes go up and everyone pays more so the union workers can continue to be overpaid.
How about this proposal: When public sector union wages or benefits cause a state to run a defecit, the public sector workers have to balance the budget through increased union dues... pass that and you can keep your collective bargaining.
You keep saying public workers are overpaid, according to who? Some republican governor who is really a stooge for big business. Just because tax payers dont want to pay doesnt mean the worker is overpaid, in fact maybe these workers are underpaid for the job they are doing. Its human nature for another human being{the taxpayer in this case} wanting to pay the lowest possible wage they can pay to all these workers for the jobs they perform, but that still doesnt make it right. People need to wake up and start realizing that if you want services in a free society, then they cost money to have. People arent going to go work these jobs for free or for low wages. The services govt workers provide are vital services that keep our society going, so maybe people need to realize in order to live in this type of society, one has to put more of their own money towards keeping it going, or maybe better yet big business will start paying their fair share in taxes, which will take the burden all of us having to reach into our pockets. Thats a huge part of the problem in our country, the tax code needs to be changed so all these person companies start paying their shre towards the services that run society. So to sit here and say this has nothing to do with private big business, you are 100 percent wrong, this has everything to do with them. They are the ones causing the states to have shortfalls, not the unions. The unions and the workers are just being made the scapegoats.
Lastly if states put an end to the pension padding with overtime pay, watch how fast there is no more troubles with any pension funds in the country.
Face the facts people paying workers is the cost of running a state, no way to get around that other then to close up all services and let people have a free for all in the streets on their own.
Also isnt it funny how the politicians arent talking about their own wages and benefit packages they get, which includes fat pensions and medical insurance for life? Truly amazing go after the little guy, while forgotting they are getting the same things, but then again i guess they deserve theirs while others dont. Fuckin two faced assholes are what they are. Its alaways do as i say, not as i do from these type of people.
Collective bargaining isnt just about wages and benefits, its also about working conditions and safety