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Author: [Poker] Topic: Bad Beat Jackpot blow up...Borgata
CrusCrnshw send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
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#1
Posted: 1/23/2009 10:54:56 AM
My friend was in the Borgata this week and told me this story that a couple dealers were talking about...occurrance happened a few weeks ago...
 
Borgata now has a bad beat jackpot...$125,000 I believe. Both players have to use BOTH CARDS IN HAND, and have to lose with quad 2's or better I think...2-5NL game.
Player 1 gets dealt 7s8s
Player 2 gets 10c10d?
 
Not sure on the betting patterns here but flop comes
 
10s9sJs
 
Some betting, no all in
Turn comes
 
10h...
 
so they end up going all in (not sure how much for, doesnt really matter) and they flip the cards
 
quad 10's vs. straight flush...here comes the jackpot payout...everyone at the table is high fiving. Loser I think will get 50k, winner of hand 25k and split up is the remaining 50k to the other players at table. Place is going nuts...
 
River...Qs....
 
there goes the bad beat jackpot as the straight flush goes from 7-J to 8-Q, forcing the 7 in the guys hand to not play...floor came over for ruling and denied the $, saying it has to play from 8-Q
 
HOW freaking SOUR
 
 
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#2
Posted: 1/23/2009 10:56:04 AM
i would have shot myself repeatedly
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#3
Posted: 1/23/2009 11:41:31 AM
some places will pay this because you do have a straight flush, and your cards do play. you have a SF the 7 to J of spades. It is interesting that in OMaha, say if you had a straight or a str. flush, the same as in this instance, and the board read 9,T,J,Q,2, then you can play your 7,8, as you need to play 2 of your hole cards, and you have a straight, 7 to J. Using their logic you wouldn't have a straight because only your 8 could play. Doesn't make sense. I think it is poor policy that they don't pay this because it is a bad interpretation of the rules.
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#4
Posted: 1/23/2009 11:48:40 AM
wow quad tens go from the penthouse to the shithouse.   brutal.  I got a in the main event.  won a $600 satellite.   Ask your boy how the action is I probly go this week.
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#5
Posted: 1/23/2009 11:55:47 AM
This reminds of when I was in tunica 4 years ago and they hit a bad beat for over 500,000 and I didnt get a player share cause I got up to take a wicked garbage and missed 2 big blinds.
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#6
Posted: 1/23/2009 11:04:10 PM
this has happened before at the trop i believe..and those crooked guy wont pay it off..they will find any reason to not payoff..also heard of it happening on party poker before..the dreaded top spade
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#7
Posted: 1/24/2009 1:29:45 AM
 Correct decision by the house, but what a humiliating kick in the crotch to the players. 
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#8
Posted: 1/24/2009 1:35:23 AM
And I bet you it didn't even cross any player's mind after the turn that they could get hosed by the river card. 
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#9
Posted: 1/24/2009 2:00:16 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by VegasMaxx:

This reminds of when I was in tunica 4 years ago and they hit a bad beat for over 500,000 and I didnt get a player share cause I got up to take a wicked garbage and missed 2 big blinds.

If you were still playing then the run of cards would have been different and the jackpot wouldn't have been hit, that's the only thing you can tell yourself to stay sane. Some places will give you a players share if you have chips on the table, and taking a break. That is very fair. This happens all the time though, mostly with the smaller jackpots.

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#10
Posted: 1/24/2009 2:12:46 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wizardofroz:

 Correct decision by the house, but what a humiliating kick in the crotch to the players. 

this is not the correct decision. Now if the place has the rules posted in this situation, then fine, but the odds of this happening are so far out, that they should pay it off. It is the players money , from the $1 jackpot rakes. (that's assuming that the cardroom is not cash-poor) The guy did have a straight flush, and both of his cards play to make a straight flush, and he beat quads. Now he isn't playing the highest possible straight flush, but it doesn't maetter , because either straight flush wins the hand anyways. Ask a cardroom floor man why you can't win a jackpot in this instance, but in an Omaha game, you can win a pot with a lower straight , and not the highest possible straight, because you HAVE to use 2 of your hole cards, and not just 1 hole card. EX, your hand in Omaha, 7S, 8S, X, X and the board reads 9,T,J,Q, 4, so using both of your cards, you have a Jack high straight, and using just the 8, you have a Q high straight. Anyways, this is a chickenshit way to get out of paying a jackpot.

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#11
Posted: 1/24/2009 3:08:40 AM
It's chicken garbage, but you are still only using 1 card out of your hand to make your hand.  Don't know why you are even disputing that fact. 
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#12
Posted: 1/24/2009 3:09:35 AM
And I hate casinos any how, but I have to take their side on this one. 
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#13
Posted: 1/24/2009 3:50:04 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wizardofroz:

It's chicken garbage, but you are still only using 1 card out of your hand to make your hand.  Don't know why you are even disputing that fact. 

 

agree its a bad beat jackpot for a reason.   If you could win it  playing one card in your hand it would hit alot more.   It's pretty standard everywhere you have to play two cards in winning the badbeat, one rule thats different is your kicker beating or tie the board in the case of four of a kind. some  place pay on tie some place you have to beat it.  There's an urban legend a rich lady mucked a badbeat because she didn't like the cocky little guy she was playing against.

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#14
Posted: 1/24/2009 7:47:47 AM
There's an urban legend a rich lady mucked a badbeat because she didn't like the cocky little guy she was playing against.
 
lol......I've heard that one before, but it was an old man.....I was wondering if there was any truth to it.
 
If it was true and I was sitting at that table, he/she would have gotten a beatdown.
 
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#15
Posted: 1/25/2009 1:46:47 AM
Guys, in this instance, both of his cards technically do play, as he can use both cards, he has a Jack high straight flush, he isn't using the queen and doesn't need it. It is a bad interpretation. using this logic, then in Omaha you wouldn't be able to claim a low end straight if there is a higher straight on the board. I know it's a different game, but... A good lawyer could win this case, IMO.
 
Most places will pay on the jackpot if there is a tie wuth the kicker, but some places won't, another bad interpretation.
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#16
Posted: 1/25/2009 2:17:26 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Godfather16:

Guys, in this instance, both of his cards technically do play, as he can use both cards, he has a Jack high straight flush, he isn't using the queen and doesn't need it. It is a bad interpretation. using this logic, then in Omaha you wouldn't be able to claim a low end straight if there is a higher straight on the board. I know it's a different game, but... A good lawyer could win this case, IMO.
 
Most places will pay on the jackpot if there is a tie wuth the kicker, but some places won't, another bad interpretation.

In omaha , just like in bad beat jackpots the language is "you have to use two cards"  there is absolutely no dispute.

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#17
Posted: 1/25/2009 2:19:19 AM
And it's use to cards to make the best possible hand.   This isn't something new.  Happens all the time.
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#18
Posted: 1/25/2009 3:07:51 AM
A lawyer wouldn't win garbage, in Hold'em  the best 5 cards play, whether it's the board, hole card or both hole cards.  There is nothing to argue.  You want to muther darn the casino but the rules are set in place, if you ran the casino you sure as garbage wouldn't be kicking them down 125k for being close, that's just absurd.
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#19
Posted: 1/25/2009 3:18:09 AM
Godfather, based on your logic, the house should pay the bad beat if the board is TJQK of spades and another ten, with one player holding pocket tens and the other player holding ace of spades / 2 of diamonds.
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#20
Posted: 1/25/2009 4:15:36 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Godfather16:

Guys, in this instance, both of his cards technically do play, as he can use both cards

 

Technically NO, his cards dont play. TEXAS HOLD EM is the BEST 5 card hand that plays, not, lets exclude the river card cuz we still have an awesome hand without it too!!!! Theres no debate, A lawyer wouldnt accomplish anything, other than taking a guy like your money for thinking so. Not taking a shot at you godfather but the rules are simple, i dont see why you think a lawyer could win

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#21
Posted: 1/25/2009 10:32:48 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wizardofroz:

Godfather, based on your logic, the house should pay the bad beat if the board is TJQK of spades and another ten, with one player holding pocket tens and the other player holding ace of spades / 2 of diamonds.

No, actually the guy with the A,2, both of his cards don't play, I've seen one card staright flushes like this and of course jackpots don't pay out on this.

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#22
Posted: 1/25/2009 10:44:02 AM
Guys, some places in CA will pay the jackpot if the second hole card is counterfeited. Not too many, but some do. This instance is so rare, even to hit a jackpot, that it is just my opinion that they should pay it, as both of your hole cards COULD play, and there is no other possible hand that could beat it. (other than a higher straight flush on the higher end) It is so hard to hit a jackpot, it is a once in a lifetime thing, and to make it even harder is wrong IMO. I realize that the best 5 card hand wins, but usually we are talking about 2 low pairs getting counterfeited, or a kicker playing.
 
Now guys are saying that the card room doesn't want to pay out, blah, blah , blah. But this jackpot money has been collected from the players, $1 each hand, and at some places they collect FAR more $$$ than they end up paying out on jackpots, and they have back-up jackpots or the card room just pockets the extra money over time. Generally with these jackpots the card room is not using their own money to pay these out, maybe they might put out some seed money to start the jackpot fund, but they get that money back in no time. Now this is assuming that the card-room is not cash poor, which is not always the case. If the card-room is cash-poor, then they are probably using that jackpot money to pay their bills also, and they may have managers that are pissing that money away somehow. A big jackpot is so rare to hit, but it is great publicity for the room, so why do they want to make it even harder to hit?
 
IMO, these big jackpot #'s entice degenerate gamblers to play, so that is wrong, but then again in CA there are poker rooms all over the place and I don't understand why that is legal either. (something about CA law stating that poker is not gambling because it is a game of skill, LMAO!)
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#23
Posted: 1/25/2009 11:55:06 AM
In Omaha, the best 5 cards win, but you have to use 2 of your hole cards. So your winning hand may not be the best possible straight or flush out there. How is this different from the jackpot example? The best 5 card hand that you can make WITH your 2 hole cards. The card rooms, if they don't want to pay this off, should specifically have this in their jackpot rule so there is no misunderstanding from the players.
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#24
Posted: 1/25/2009 2:29:42 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Godfather16:

In Omaha, the best 5 cards win, but you have to use 2 of your hole cards. So your winning hand may not be the best possible straight or flush out there. How is this different from the jackpot example? The best 5 card hand that you can make WITH your 2 hole cards. The card rooms, if they don't want to pay this off, should specifically have this in their jackpot rule so there is no misunderstanding from the players.

Are you kidding? Seriously?

You are using Omaha as your example as to why a jackpot should be paid in Hold'em?  You really want to use that example?  You want to use a card game with different rules to justify as to why another card game should get paid?  That is just stupid.

Hold'em rules is that the best 5 cards play, correct?

Jackpot rules state that BOTH cards have to play, correct?

So what's so hard to understand?

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#25
Posted: 1/25/2009 4:27:38 PM
elec, i am only showing you that these rules are inconsistent, between the 2 games. In both Omaha and the jackpot example the rules state that you have to use both of your cards. But then there is a jackpot "ruling" says that maybe you can't use both of your cards. Some Jackpot rulings say that 2 cards must play. So like in Omaha you should be able to use your 2 cards and make a jackpot hand. I understand the rules and all, I am just saying that the rooms should pay out in this instance, and if enough people did complain about it maybe some would look into it. Some of the people running card rooms aren't the most honorable people either, if you haven't noticed. I know of card rooms in CA that have literally pocketed millions of off the Jackpot rakes.
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