I've posed a similar question here a few years back, but I can't seem to find the thread. But I'm wondering what stats the active tennis cappers find the most useful? And also what information you can't get your hands on that you would like to see.
I've been working about 2 years on and off putting together something
in the way of a tennis stats site to fill what I see as a major void in
this sport, at least in the states.
The two things I've focused most on:
Is creating a power ranking system for tracking the strength of players
at a given point in time, and thus the value of their wins/losses more
accurately; as the current atp rankings are really built to protect top
players, not show weekly and monthly momentum.
And then, obviously, there is a huge void out there for finding
reputable stats analysis outside basic h2h matchups. So you can't
easily see things like serve percentage for Nadal on grass. Or quality
wins for Jack Sock over the last 6 months.
I've put in about 200 hours this month and I'm getting close to
finishing up the first version of the site, but I'd love to hear any
specific requests for statistics people would find especially
beneficial. Of course I will continue to add things over time, but it's
much easier to fine tune things before the site layout is finalized.
I've posed a similar question here a few years back, but I can't seem to find the thread. But I'm wondering what stats the active tennis cappers find the most useful? And also what information you can't get your hands on that you would like to see.
I've been working about 2 years on and off putting together something
in the way of a tennis stats site to fill what I see as a major void in
this sport, at least in the states.
The two things I've focused most on:
Is creating a power ranking system for tracking the strength of players
at a given point in time, and thus the value of their wins/losses more
accurately; as the current atp rankings are really built to protect top
players, not show weekly and monthly momentum.
And then, obviously, there is a huge void out there for finding
reputable stats analysis outside basic h2h matchups. So you can't
easily see things like serve percentage for Nadal on grass. Or quality
wins for Jack Sock over the last 6 months.
I've put in about 200 hours this month and I'm getting close to
finishing up the first version of the site, but I'd love to hear any
specific requests for statistics people would find especially
beneficial. Of course I will continue to add things over time, but it's
much easier to fine tune things before the site layout is finalized.
This sounds very interesting. I was going to mention across the street as a better forum for input, but i see you posted there as well. Matchstat is the one stop shop for now, but I agree seeing nadals return % all time on grass and how many aces sock averages, or total lifetime, or even gives up would be very interesting stuff indeed. Not sure how the logistics for all of this would work, with the constant updating it would require, and the sheer mass for some 500+ players (including women?) data...all seems a bit daunting for one person, especially for free (if this is all the case).
Anywho, would love to check it out when the time comes. Please post here as updates occur on your end. Cheers
This sounds very interesting. I was going to mention across the street as a better forum for input, but i see you posted there as well. Matchstat is the one stop shop for now, but I agree seeing nadals return % all time on grass and how many aces sock averages, or total lifetime, or even gives up would be very interesting stuff indeed. Not sure how the logistics for all of this would work, with the constant updating it would require, and the sheer mass for some 500+ players (including women?) data...all seems a bit daunting for one person, especially for free (if this is all the case).
Anywho, would love to check it out when the time comes. Please post here as updates occur on your end. Cheers
This sounds very interesting. I was going to mention across the street as a better forum for input, but i see you posted there as well. Matchstat is the one stop shop for now, but I agree seeing nadals return % all time on grass and how many aces sock averages, or total lifetime, or even gives up would be very interesting stuff indeed. Not sure how the logistics for all of this would work, with the constant updating it would require, and the sheer mass for some 500+ players (including women?) data...all seems a bit daunting for one person, especially for free (if this is all the case).
Anywho, would love to check it out when the time comes. Please post here as updates occur on your end. Cheers
All very true. As mentioned, I started this project a good while back thinking it would be something I could do in a few hours a week over 4-6 months. Two years later, I'm in for about 1,500 hours. And still have some work to do.
The statistical database alone has almost 12,000 matches in it. And that's only for the matches since 2010 (I had to start somewhere).
And each contains about 50 specific data points.
Also, at this time I am only doing men's ATP matches. So it's a little more limited than I would like (no challenger matches, and no Davis cup before 2014) but you'd still be amazed at what you can see from the data when you start putting together some meaningful reports.
Maybe it it starts to get some traffic I can do a crowdfunding campaign to raise capital to hire some help and do the wta side as well. I guess we'll see what type of response it gets from the general public.
One of the simplest but most useful things (that I have not been able to find anywhere else) is seeing players rank (at the time of the match) for historical matches. For matches before 2014 it will show their atp rank, from 2014 forward it will show our proprietary power rank. Which is an adjustment based on atp rank given current form and the quality/margin of victory for matches played.
I will definitely post the site layout pages here for feedback first before it goes live.
This sounds very interesting. I was going to mention across the street as a better forum for input, but i see you posted there as well. Matchstat is the one stop shop for now, but I agree seeing nadals return % all time on grass and how many aces sock averages, or total lifetime, or even gives up would be very interesting stuff indeed. Not sure how the logistics for all of this would work, with the constant updating it would require, and the sheer mass for some 500+ players (including women?) data...all seems a bit daunting for one person, especially for free (if this is all the case).
Anywho, would love to check it out when the time comes. Please post here as updates occur on your end. Cheers
All very true. As mentioned, I started this project a good while back thinking it would be something I could do in a few hours a week over 4-6 months. Two years later, I'm in for about 1,500 hours. And still have some work to do.
The statistical database alone has almost 12,000 matches in it. And that's only for the matches since 2010 (I had to start somewhere).
And each contains about 50 specific data points.
Also, at this time I am only doing men's ATP matches. So it's a little more limited than I would like (no challenger matches, and no Davis cup before 2014) but you'd still be amazed at what you can see from the data when you start putting together some meaningful reports.
Maybe it it starts to get some traffic I can do a crowdfunding campaign to raise capital to hire some help and do the wta side as well. I guess we'll see what type of response it gets from the general public.
One of the simplest but most useful things (that I have not been able to find anywhere else) is seeing players rank (at the time of the match) for historical matches. For matches before 2014 it will show their atp rank, from 2014 forward it will show our proprietary power rank. Which is an adjustment based on atp rank given current form and the quality/margin of victory for matches played.
I will definitely post the site layout pages here for feedback first before it goes live.
I believe rank as it stands now is barely useful knowledge. The system in place does not account for current form and the like. The variance in how much someone is progressing, and how quickly - vice versa as well - is hidden unless you watch the sport constantly. Stats in other sports can clue one in fast enough to make a better educated guess.
In short I agree that stronger stats are lacking in tennis, hence my intrigue. I will definitely be thinking of any categories that I find myself missing and see if you have them accounted for.
I believe rank as it stands now is barely useful knowledge. The system in place does not account for current form and the like. The variance in how much someone is progressing, and how quickly - vice versa as well - is hidden unless you watch the sport constantly. Stats in other sports can clue one in fast enough to make a better educated guess.
In short I agree that stronger stats are lacking in tennis, hence my intrigue. I will definitely be thinking of any categories that I find myself missing and see if you have them accounted for.
I believe rank as it stands now is barely useful knowledge. The system in place does not account for current form and the like. The variance in how much someone is progressing, and how quickly - vice versa as well - is hidden unless you watch the sport constantly. Stats in other sports can clue one in fast enough to make a better educated guess.
In short I agree that stronger stats are lacking in tennis, hence my intrigue. I will definitely be thinking of any categories that I find myself missing and see if you have them accounted for.
Exactly. I kept just waiting for someone else to fill this void and no one has. Most sports sites (like covers) don't even really have a tennis section.
I believe rank as it stands now is barely useful knowledge. The system in place does not account for current form and the like. The variance in how much someone is progressing, and how quickly - vice versa as well - is hidden unless you watch the sport constantly. Stats in other sports can clue one in fast enough to make a better educated guess.
In short I agree that stronger stats are lacking in tennis, hence my intrigue. I will definitely be thinking of any categories that I find myself missing and see if you have them accounted for.
Exactly. I kept just waiting for someone else to fill this void and no one has. Most sports sites (like covers) don't even really have a tennis section.
Matchstat is great, but it doesn't offer any statistical analysis.
It simply provides historical data.
Saying it is all you need to analyze tennis matchups is like saying MLB.com is all you need to analyze baseball matchups. Sure the data is there if you had 100 hours to analyze each game. But it isn't telling you things like covers or other sites do for baseball statistics. Someone has to crunch the numbers to make them useful.
Matchstat is great, but it doesn't offer any statistical analysis.
It simply provides historical data.
Saying it is all you need to analyze tennis matchups is like saying MLB.com is all you need to analyze baseball matchups. Sure the data is there if you had 100 hours to analyze each game. But it isn't telling you things like covers or other sites do for baseball statistics. Someone has to crunch the numbers to make them useful.
This is where you're making a big mistake. Matchstat is THE place to find REAL stats. You crunch the numbers, look at head to heads, look at best style court/surface fits each player, and so much more. Once you have gathered all the info, you add your personal experience of the game, and then make an educated guess. You will come out as a winner more often than not.
Websites like covers and other sites used for baseball stats are all Garbage. They don't influence your thoughts in positive ways. It's like study all night for a big exam, and forgetting everything you studied the next day. This website and others just ruin all the time you studied on a pick, only to pick the opposite because some avatars are just convincing you otherwise. When I make a wager, I get all the research I need on a player, confirm the wager, then browse covers.
For me, matchstat is the one I prefer to gather stats from. But each to their own.
This is where you're making a big mistake. Matchstat is THE place to find REAL stats. You crunch the numbers, look at head to heads, look at best style court/surface fits each player, and so much more. Once you have gathered all the info, you add your personal experience of the game, and then make an educated guess. You will come out as a winner more often than not.
Websites like covers and other sites used for baseball stats are all Garbage. They don't influence your thoughts in positive ways. It's like study all night for a big exam, and forgetting everything you studied the next day. This website and others just ruin all the time you studied on a pick, only to pick the opposite because some avatars are just convincing you otherwise. When I make a wager, I get all the research I need on a player, confirm the wager, then browse covers.
For me, matchstat is the one I prefer to gather stats from. But each to their own.
Honestly, my number one complaint against matchstat is it doesn't save historical player rankings with the matches. If they did that, I never would have started this whole project.
But, our site will have all of the atp statistics that matchstat does, so if that's all you need, it will be there as well.
Either way, for what is supposedly the number 2 wagered on sport in the world, we could use some more sites dedicated to tennis with quality information.
Honestly, my number one complaint against matchstat is it doesn't save historical player rankings with the matches. If they did that, I never would have started this whole project.
But, our site will have all of the atp statistics that matchstat does, so if that's all you need, it will be there as well.
Either way, for what is supposedly the number 2 wagered on sport in the world, we could use some more sites dedicated to tennis with quality information.
Virtually everyone agrees soccer is number one worldwide. Then tennis or horse racing number two is what I usually hear.
Football is huge in the states, but literally no significant interest in the rest of the world. Baseball is big here and in japan, but again, very little interest in many parts of the world.
Basketball may be getting up there as some of the international leagues are starting to grow, but it's season is only around 3/5 of the year and I don't think it's up there yet.
Don't forget there are 7 billion people in the world and only about 4% of them live in the United States...
Virtually everyone agrees soccer is number one worldwide. Then tennis or horse racing number two is what I usually hear.
Football is huge in the states, but literally no significant interest in the rest of the world. Baseball is big here and in japan, but again, very little interest in many parts of the world.
Basketball may be getting up there as some of the international leagues are starting to grow, but it's season is only around 3/5 of the year and I don't think it's up there yet.
Don't forget there are 7 billion people in the world and only about 4% of them live in the United States...
I'm not sure if you're still active here but I'd love to have a quick opinion on the site before we go wide with it to the public next month.
Still a few loose ends we're tying up, and the match statistics are only being updated about every 24 hours right now, but I think you'll see what we're trying to do.
I'm not sure if you're still active here but I'd love to have a quick opinion on the site before we go wide with it to the public next month.
Still a few loose ends we're tying up, and the match statistics are only being updated about every 24 hours right now, but I think you'll see what we're trying to do.
Winners v Unforced errors. There needs to be some kind of power stat in that.
All the big boys in their peak form have a ratio of 2:1 or better in Win:UFE. I bet that stat changes quite a bit from surface to surface for some players.
Winners v Unforced errors. There needs to be some kind of power stat in that.
All the big boys in their peak form have a ratio of 2:1 or better in Win:UFE. I bet that stat changes quite a bit from surface to surface for some players.
Winners v Unforced errors. There needs to be some kind of power stat in that.
All the big boys in their peak form have a ratio of 2:1 or better in Win:UFE. I bet that stat changes quite a bit from surface to surface for some players.
Definitely something we're working towards. And we will have that in for grand slams and several other tournaments before the end of the year.
The issue is that the ATP does not provide historic data for those points. They only do what you see here: https://www.atpworldtour.com/Share/Match-Facts-Pop-Up.aspx?t=0451&y=2014&r=3&p=N409
So, we've tried contracting a couple services to see what they can offer us but haven't found anyone reputable and with reliable enough stats yet.
In the meantime, we're gathering what we can from current tournaments, but unfortunately it's a slow process.
Winners v Unforced errors. There needs to be some kind of power stat in that.
All the big boys in their peak form have a ratio of 2:1 or better in Win:UFE. I bet that stat changes quite a bit from surface to surface for some players.
Definitely something we're working towards. And we will have that in for grand slams and several other tournaments before the end of the year.
The issue is that the ATP does not provide historic data for those points. They only do what you see here: https://www.atpworldtour.com/Share/Match-Facts-Pop-Up.aspx?t=0451&y=2014&r=3&p=N409
So, we've tried contracting a couple services to see what they can offer us but haven't found anyone reputable and with reliable enough stats yet.
In the meantime, we're gathering what we can from current tournaments, but unfortunately it's a slow process.
From what I've read, one of the most helpful stats for predicting outcomes is a players ability to break in relation to how often they get broken. That would be helpful.
From what I've read, one of the most helpful stats for predicting outcomes is a players ability to break in relation to how often they get broken. That would be helpful.
From what I've read, one of the most helpful stats for predicting outcomes is a players ability to break in relation to how often they get broken. That would be helpful.
That would be the same thing as comparing the service game win percentage and return game win percentage. Which is on several pages.
Try looking at the in-depth tab on this page: https://www.indepthstats.com/tournaments/201455/201455501.html
Now if you were wanting to compare break point conversion percent vs break point save percent, that would be something new. But I'm not sure that would tell you much more. I'd almost think points won in service vs return games would be more useful.
From what I've read, one of the most helpful stats for predicting outcomes is a players ability to break in relation to how often they get broken. That would be helpful.
That would be the same thing as comparing the service game win percentage and return game win percentage. Which is on several pages.
Try looking at the in-depth tab on this page: https://www.indepthstats.com/tournaments/201455/201455501.html
Now if you were wanting to compare break point conversion percent vs break point save percent, that would be something new. But I'm not sure that would tell you much more. I'd almost think points won in service vs return games would be more useful.
I like what you've done so far and what you're proposing. I would be willing to help in some manner if I can. Let me know. Keep up the good work in the meantime.
I like what you've done so far and what you're proposing. I would be willing to help in some manner if I can. Let me know. Keep up the good work in the meantime.
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