If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

Forum: General Discussion Page 203 of 215 «  201 202 203 204 205   »
Author: [General Discussion] Topic: If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity
HutchEmAll PM HutchEmAll
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 38673
 
HutchEmAll
Participation Meter
Legend
quote#5051
Posted: 2/23/2012 12:15:08 PM
The event that turned them around.
__________

No event for either of them.   They were told the story of God.....they started going to church....it worked for them in their life.

No amount of you imploring me to go talk to more former athiests is going to change the story here.  



SirJohnDrake PM SirJohnDrake
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 12950
 
SirJohnDrake
Participation Meter
All-Star
quote#5052
Posted: 2/23/2012 12:44:57 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

Now apply this to God, look at the world around you, complexities, order, laws, natural beauty etc etc, do you deduct from this that it all happened by pure dumb blind luck with no reason for it at all or there was a creator behind it?
_____________

Look at the famine....the earthquakes....the tsunamis......God behind those as well?

Why does God allow earthquakes, tornados, hurricanes, tsunamis, typhoons, cyclones, mudslides, and other natural disasters?

Tragedies such as Hurricane Katrina in 2005, the 2008 cyclone in Myanmar, the 2010 earthquake in Haiti, and the 2011 earthquake/tsunami near Japan cause many people to question God’s goodness.

It is distressing that natural disasters are often termed "acts of God" while no "credit" is given to God for years, decades, or even centuries of peaceful weather.

God created the whole universe and the laws of nature (Genesis 1:1). Most natural disasters are a result of these laws at work. Hurricanes, typhoons, and tornados are the results of divergent weather patterns colliding. Earthquakes are the result of the earth’s plate structure shifting. A tsunami is caused by an underwater earthquake.

The Bible proclaims that Jesus Christ holds all of nature together (Colossians 1:16-17). Could God prevent natural disasters? Absolutely! Does God :16-sometimes influence the weather? Yes, as we see in Deu. 11:17 and James 5:17. Numbers 16:30-34 shows us that God sometimes causes natural disasters as a judgment against sin.

The book of Revelation describes many events which could definitely be described as natural disasters (Revelation chapters 6, 8, and 16). Is every natural disaster a punishment from God? Absolutely not.

In much the same way that God allows evil people to commit evil acts, God allows the earth to reflect the consequences sin has had on creation. Romans 8:19-21 tells us, "The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God."

The fall of humanity into sin had effects on everything, including the world we inhabit. Everything in creation is subject to "frustration" and "decay." Sin is the ultimate cause of natural disasters just as it is the cause of death, disease, and suffering.

We can understand why natural disasters occur. What we do not understand is why God allows them to occur. Why did God allow the tsunami to kill over 225,000 people in Asia? Why did God allow Hurricane Katrina to destroy the homes of thousands of people?

For one thing, such events shake our confidence in this life and force us to think about eternity. Churches are usually filled after disasters as people realize how tenuous their lives really are and how life can be taken away in an instant.

What we do know is this: God is good! Many amazing miracles occurred during the course of natural disasters that prevented even greater loss of life. Natural disasters cause millions of people to reevaluate their priorities in life. Hundreds of millions of dollars in aid is sent to help the people who are suffering. Christian ministries have the opportunity to help, minister, counsel, pray, and lead people to saving faith in Christ! God can, and does, bring great good out of terrible tragedies (Romans 8:28).

smoothd20 PM smoothd20
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6491
 
smoothd20
Participation Meter
Captain
quote#5053
Posted: 2/23/2012 12:45:49 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


For the 84th time, I HAVE.  One of my friends just was approached by a guy and they got together to have coffee and talk about God. The message hit him and the rest is history.  He never had a "moment where God touched him."  And he was the person who got together with another friend over coffee every once in a while and eventually, she was on board.  

You can keep trying, but the story isn't going to change.  
I'm not trying to change the story. I'm asking for specifics. Who is the atheist? Just saying my "friend" we can't assume who the atheist is/was. #2 Did you talk to your friend  about this conversion? Saying it just happened sounds like a teenager trying to explain why they got drunk to their parents. Nothing "just happens". I appreciate your efforts but its falling short of the challenge. More specifics are needed as to who, what, where, how. Also we're not talking about 2nd hand information. You should be the one discussing directly with the individual about what made them change. Thanks for at least trying.
smoothd20 PM smoothd20
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6491
 
smoothd20
Participation Meter
Captain
quote#5054
Posted: 2/23/2012 12:54:48 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jagerfury:



I called you racist for your racist comments. I called you a bigot for your bigoted comments. I call you an idiot for your illogical arguments. I could give a garbage if you are black, white, or hispanic. I don't judge by the color of your skin, but by the words which come out of your mouth.



YOU ARE A COMPLETE IDIOT!!! I asked your stupid behind before and I will say it again because you obviously have mental issues. Show me the post where I made a racist statement. The thing with you as with most uneducated people is that you make statements and can never back them up. You disappear when the going gets tough only to come back like the troll you are and make more dumb statements. When have I ever made a racist statement on this thread. Show that statement to me. I asked you this before and you went silent. If you can't find the post or are too lazy to back up your words STFU! Go back to the rock from which you crawled out from. We have had strong disagreements with the atheist on this thread but you Jagerfury are complete scum. Your entire spirit (oops I forgot you don't have one) is infected with negative condemnation. You must be one lonely SOB to sit behind your computer and throw out  insults to people that you don't even know. The worst part about it is that the things you say aren't even based on facts but some fantasy world that you have created for yourself. So in closing if you can't find these "racist" statements that I made and post them, then I suggest you move along because I have totally discredited your pathetic behind in the past and I do so again.
smoothd20 PM smoothd20
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6491
 
smoothd20
Participation Meter
Captain
quote#5055
Posted: 2/23/2012 1:03:27 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

The event that turned them around.
__________

No event for either of them.   They were told the story of God.....they started going to church....it worked for them in their life.

No amount of you imploring me to go talk to more former athiests is going to change the story here.  



Were these friends atheist? It's nice to hear that God can convince people over dinner and coffee but something must have clicked. People just don't give up a life atheism after dinner unless something inside them finally clicked. That's what we're talking about. This challenge is about getting to the core of the reason that these 4 people changed their positions. Again I appreciate you sharing this but it falls short of the spirit of the challenge. Maybe if you spoke to your friends and asked them this "What was the one event, epiphany, or cause that made you see the light in regards to God"? I'm sure if you asked that question they would say more than "I don't know it just happened" 
Rostos PM Rostos
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 27668
 
Rostos
Participation Meter
Hall of Fame
quote#5056
Posted: 2/23/2012 2:54:46 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

Now apply this to God, look at the world around you, complexities, order, laws, natural beauty etc etc, do you deduct from this that it all happened by pure dumb blind luck with no reason for it at all or there was a creator behind it?
_____________

Look at the famine....the earthquakes....the tsunamis......God behind those as well?

This is an emotional argument and i fully understand how you think this....

In regards to famine, unfortunately this is a consequence of FREE will....Gods gift to us was free will, and unfortunately we see how we use it sometimes....and unfortunately famine is one of them....

The non believers have to look at the world around them and see the evils are the result of mans free will.

Earth quakes are the result of a fallen world....I am sure you know about the story of Adam and Eve.....

When they disobeyed God, they were effectively seperated from God. God said, you want to do things your way? Unfortunately this has been brought out by original sin.....We are ALL born from Adam and we all have a stain on us...

This is all the result of fallen world brought out by original sin and the side consequence of free will

 

Rostos PM Rostos
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 27668
 
Rostos
Participation Meter
Hall of Fame
quote#5057
Posted: 2/23/2012 2:59:57 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

Remember by definition, God created the universe, meaning he is outside the universe, in another realm, by definition this is the supernatural realm.....
__________________

So something can be created from nothing in the supernatural realm?  And if you think so, how do you know?

No, rather pointing out that we know from the laws of physics (second law of thermodynamics) and the fact that the number INFINITY cannot be used in our natural universe shows that the universe cannot be eternal., rather it began....

The question is....Can we apply the second law of thermodynamics to the supernatural world? Can we apply the number infinity to the super natrual world?

Of course we cant because we cant test it....

Rather, this now opens the possibility that the supernatural realm was eternal in the past....Rather, God always has been.....

I am trying to show that we cant compare the 2 worlds....

 

Rostos PM Rostos
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 27668
 
Rostos
Participation Meter
Hall of Fame
quote#5058
Posted: 2/23/2012 3:04:57 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

YOU ARE A COMPLETE IDIOT!!! I asked your stupid behind before and I will say it again because you obviously have mental issues. Show me the post where I made a racist statement. The thing with you as with most uneducated people is that you make statements and can never back them up. You disappear when the going gets tough only to come back like the troll you are and make more dumb statements. When have I ever made a racist statement on this thread. Show that statement to me. I asked you this before and you went silent. If you can't find the post or are too lazy to back up your words STFU! Go back to the rock from which you crawled out from. We have had strong disagreements with the atheist on this thread but you Jagerfury are complete scum. Your entire spirit (oops I forgot you don't have one) is infected with negative condemnation. You must be one lonely SOB to sit behind your computer and throw out  insults to people that you don't even know. The worst part about it is that the things you say aren't even based on facts but some fantasy world that you have created for yourself. So in closing if you can't find these "racist" statements that I made and post them, then I suggest you move along because I have totally discredited your pathetic behind in the past and I do so again.

Dont bother bud...

Fury parades himself as an intellect yet doesnt even know the basics of philosophy, thelology and the philosophies of sciences....

Them when exposed he starts swearing at everyone....

Just ignore him....

HutchEmAll PM HutchEmAll
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 38673
 
HutchEmAll
Participation Meter
Legend
quote#5059
Posted: 2/23/2012 3:36:10 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

Were these friends atheist? It's nice to hear that God can convince people over dinner and coffee but something must have clicked. People just don't give up a life atheism after dinner unless something inside them finally clicked. That's what we're talking about. This challenge is about getting to the core of the reason that these 4 people changed their positions. Again I appreciate you sharing this but it falls short of the spirit of the challenge. Maybe if you spoke to your friends and asked them this "What was the one event, epiphany, or cause that made you see the light in regards to God"? I'm sure if you asked that question they would say more than "I don't know it just happened" 

I don't consider myself an athiest.  I guess I don't know why I'm even bothering.  

By the way, what are exactly trying to prove with this exercise?   

HutchEmAll PM HutchEmAll
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 38673
 
HutchEmAll
Participation Meter
Legend
quote#5060
Posted: 2/23/2012 3:39:12 PM
Earth quakes are the result of a fallen world....I am sure you know about the story of Adam and Eve.....
____________

You're kidding, right?


The question is....Can we apply the second law of thermodynamics to the supernatural world? Can we apply the number infinity to the super natrual world?

Of course we cant because we cant test it....

Rather, this now opens the possibility that the supernatural realm was eternal in the past

___________

Thank you for admitting that you don't know.


Rostos PM Rostos
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 27668
 
Rostos
Participation Meter
Hall of Fame
quote#5061
Posted: 2/23/2012 6:30:11 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

Earth quakes are the result of a fallen world....I am sure you know about the story of Adam and Eve.....
____________

You're kidding, right?
 
Nah mate, this is basic theology.....The garden of Eden was described as a magnificent place as God walked with Adam and Eve (non literal sense), he gave one basic instruction which was not to eat from the tree of knowledge....because if they did they will surely die....Well, look at the world around you, i dont think he was kidding....we are seperated from God, and that is why Christ came down , to bridge that gap.


The question is....Can we apply the second law of thermodynamics to the supernatural world? Can we apply the number infinity to the super natrual world?

Of course we cant because we cant test it....

Rather, this now opens the possibility that the supernatural realm was eternal in the past

___________

Thank you for admitting that you don't know.

Well, we obviously cant test the supernatural, but it is OPEN to the possibility as i said...

I really really highly recommend you to look at current big bang cosmology and think criticallly about it....and make up your mind.


smoothd20 PM smoothd20
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6491
 
smoothd20
Participation Meter
Captain
quote#5062
Posted: 2/24/2012 3:03:15 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


I don't consider myself an athiest.  I guess I don't know why I'm even bothering.  

By the way, what are exactly trying to prove with this exercise?   

I appreciate your efforts but I have stated a few times what the purpose was. As I thought none of the atheist have even bothered to do the challenge because they're not interested in anything but mental masturbation. Back and forth bullshit with no action just blah blah blah. Thanks anyway but I think you have exhausted your willingness to do this correctly but I do respect you for attempting.
vanzack PM vanzack
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 52545
 
vanzack
Participation Meter
Legend
quote#5063
Posted: 2/24/2012 8:05:08 AM

Bill Maher gets it right.

 

Diamondjake PM Diamondjake
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 865
 
Diamondjake
Participation Meter
Rookie
quote#5064
Posted: 2/24/2012 9:14:57 AM

John 3-16.

Either believe it. Or not your choice. But you are running out of time, Bill Maher will answer for leading many people astray.

jagerfury PM jagerfury
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2863
 
jagerfury
Participation Meter
Veteran
quote#5065
Posted: 2/25/2012 1:16:21 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

YOU ARE A COMPLETE IDIOT!!! I asked your stupid behind before and I will say it again because you obviously have mental issues. Show me the post where I made a racist statement. The thing with you as with most uneducated people is that you make statements and can never back them up. You disappear when the going gets tough only to come back like the troll you are and make more dumb statements. When have I ever made a racist statement on this thread. Show that statement to me. I asked you this before and you went silent. If you can't find the post or are too lazy to back up your words STFU! Go back to the rock from which you crawled out from. We have had strong disagreements with the atheist on this thread but you Jagerfury are complete scum. Your entire spirit (oops I forgot you don't have one) is infected with negative condemnation. You must be one lonely SOB to sit behind your computer and throw out  insults to people that you don't even know. The worst part about it is that the things you say aren't even based on facts but some fantasy world that you have created for yourself. So in closing if you can't find these "racist" statements that I made and post them, then I suggest you move along because I have totally discredited your pathetic behind in the past and I do so again.
Hey smooth, why don't you show your kids the soft porn pictures you post, and your gambling and explain how this all works in your christian belief system so they can all follow you into hell...
jagerfury PM jagerfury
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2863
 
jagerfury
Participation Meter
Veteran
quote#5066
Posted: 2/25/2012 1:20:40 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Diamondjake:

John 3-16.

Either believe it. Or not your choice. But you are running out of time, Bill Maher will answer for leading many people astray.

Yeah, another dumb f@#$!
smoothd20 PM smoothd20
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6491
 
smoothd20
Participation Meter
Captain
quote#5067
Posted: 2/25/2012 4:45:20 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jagerfury:

Yeah, another dumb f@#$!
Hey Assclown you have lost all credibility. Show me the racist comments that you keep saying I posted. Find them scumbag or issue an apology for lying on me. Show me the posts!!! Liars and thieves are the scum of the Earth.
jagerfury PM jagerfury
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2863
 
jagerfury
Participation Meter
Veteran
quote#5068
Posted: 2/27/2012 10:17:17 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

Hey Assclown you have lost all credibility. Show me the racist comments that you keep saying I posted. Find them scumbag or issue an apology for lying on me. Show me the posts!!! Liars and thieves are the scum of the Earth.


Seeing as you give zero credibility to science, I am not concerned of having to reach some approval from you, like you need to find from your imaginary god that will have no problem roasting your little babies if it so wills it...
smoothd20 PM smoothd20
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6491
 
smoothd20
Participation Meter
Captain
quote#5069
Posted: 2/27/2012 10:23:52 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jagerfury:



Seeing as you give zero credibility to science, I am not concerned of having to reach some approval from you, like you need to find from your imaginary god that will have no problem roasting your little babies if it so wills it...
Thanks you have proven my point on several issues. #1 You're a liar. #2 You truly are a mental midget #3 You're a troll #4 You're a coward that makes statements and can't back them up. 
Tell us Jagerfury how does it  feel to be you? You have got to be the most miserable specimen of a man there is on this Earth.  Mindless and spineless are 2 words that come to mind when I think of you. 
johnyjohn PM johnyjohn
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5
 
johnyjohn
Participation Meter
Prospect
quote#5070
Posted: 2/27/2012 3:12:14 PM

Adam was human when he made sin by eating the fruit of knowledge.

1 Humanbeing(Adam) caused every newborn human had sin so it needed 1 Humanbeing(Jesus) to redeem for every human.

even long before Jesus was born, bible already had prophecies( in old testament) that one man will come and redeem and save whoever wants to be saved that is JESUS

vanzack PM vanzack
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 52545
 
vanzack
Participation Meter
Legend
quote#5071
Posted: 2/27/2012 3:18:21 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by johnyjohn:

Adam was human when he made sin by eating the fruit of knowledge.

1 Humanbeing(Adam) caused every newborn human had sin so it needed 1 Humanbeing(Jesus) to redeem for every human.

even long before Jesus was born, bible already had prophecies( in old testament) that one man will come and redeem and save whoever wants to be saved that is JESUS

Shrek was an ogre who loved a beautiful princess.  One day, a donkey showed up that had the power of speech.  This donkey told Shrek that his beloved princess was worth fighting for.

Shrek found princess Fiona, even though there were many obstacles against him.  It was said he could never have her - but in the end - they found each other and since then no ogre has ever had to be unhappy.

HutchEmAll PM HutchEmAll
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 38673
 
HutchEmAll
Participation Meter
Legend
quote#5072
Posted: 2/27/2012 4:06:06 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

I'm not trying to change the story. I'm asking for specifics. Who is the atheist? Just saying my "friend" we can't assume who the atheist is/was. #2 Did you talk to your friend  about this conversion? Saying it just happened sounds like a teenager trying to explain why they got drunk to their parents. Nothing "just happens". I appreciate your efforts but its falling short of the challenge. More specifics are needed as to who, what, where, how. Also we're not talking about 2nd hand information. You should be the one discussing directly with the individual about what made them change. Thanks for at least trying.

You're "exercise" is getting old for me.  

I went to college for 2 years with this guy.  He was destructive in relationships and even worse in general when he drank.  He got out of school and was never really happy.  Years went by and he got by, but he wasn't generally in a good place (I know this guy...he dated my sister). Heart of gold but just destructive.  He ended up meeting a guy (don't know his name).  He met this guy (friend of a friend) and they got to talking about the Bible.  He eventually convinced my friend to just sit down with him once to read and discuss the Bible.  He did.  He was intrigued enough so he did it again.  And the rest is history.  Pretty much his exact words:  "Nothing was really working for me.  I wasn't happy."

I know you're having fun with your little "experiment," but talking to a few others who had an "epiphany" and found God doesn't mean I'm going to have a similar experience.  

I've told you a million times, I'm a person who questions things by nature.  And when I don't get answers that make sense, I have skepticism.  It's just who I am.  Let it go.



vanzack PM vanzack
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 52545
 
vanzack
Participation Meter
Legend
quote#5073
Posted: 2/27/2012 4:09:28 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


You're "exercise" is getting old for me.  

I went to college for 2 years with this guy.  He was destructive in relationships and even worse in general when he drank.  He got out of school and was never really happy.  Years went by and he got by, but he wasn't generally in a good place (I know this guy...he dated my sister). Heart of gold but just destructive.  He ended up meeting a guy (don't know his name).  He met this guy (friend of a friend) and they got to talking about the Bible.  He eventually convinced my friend to just sit down with him once to read and discuss the Bible.  He did.  He was intrigued enough so he did it again.  And the rest is history.  Pretty much his exact words:  "Nothing was really working for me.  I wasn't happy."

I know you're having fun with your little "experiment," but talking to a few others who had an "epiphany" and found God doesn't mean I'm going to have a similar experience.  

I've told you a million times, I'm a person who questions things by nature.  And when I don't get answers that make sense, I have skepticism.  It's just who I am.  Let it go.



And it is exactly what god made you to be - a being with a big brain made for critical thinking.

But if you use it, you are going straight to HELL!!!!

HutchEmAll PM HutchEmAll
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 38673
 
HutchEmAll
Participation Meter
Legend
quote#5074
Posted: 2/27/2012 4:09:43 PM
Earth quakes are the result of a fallen world....I am sure you know about the story of Adam and Eve.....
____________

You're kidding, right?
 
Nah mate, this is basic theology.....The garden of Eden was described as a magnificent place as God walked with Adam and Eve (non literal sense), he gave one basic instruction which was not to eat from the tree of knowledge....because if they did they will surely die....Well, look at the world around you, i dont think he was kidding....we are seperated from God, and that is why Christ came down , to bridge that gap.


The question is....Can we apply the second law of thermodynamics to the supernatural world? Can we apply the number infinity to the super natrual world?

Of course we cant because we cant test it....

Rather, this now opens the possibility that the supernatural realm was eternal in the past

___________

Thank you for admitting that you don't know.

Well, we obviously cant test the supernatural, but it is OPEN to the possibility as i said...

I really really highly recommend you to look at current big bang cosmology and think criticallly about it....and make up your mind.



Who ever said it had to be the big bang or God?  I've said all along I don't know. 

And I don't know how that explains how earthquakes come from a fallen world.  

HutchEmAll PM HutchEmAll
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 38673
 
HutchEmAll
Participation Meter
Legend
quote#5075
Posted: 2/27/2012 4:10:53 PM
You're exercise. 

Your.  Trying to do 13 things at once.  
Forum: General Discussion Page 203 of 215 «  201 202 203 204 205   »
You have entered the forum as a GUEST. 
You must login/register to post or reply.